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"Max for Live"?

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pyrolator

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:06
----------------------------------------------------
> Pricing info hasn't been released, but as has been written elsewhere in this thread, if you own both Max 5 and Live 8, the price of the Max for Live addon will be very reasonable.

Dear Jeremy,
I am normally a quiet reader of this forum, but a user of Max/Msp/Jitter AND Live from the first days of these programs on. Today it was time to join the forum.

I just would like to say thank you and congratulations! This is a big step for me and I got really exited about it, when I read this yesterday. Both programs will benefit from this colaboration, I am very sure about that !

best wishes
Kurt Dahlke

1 year ago
strav100

Perhaps this will replace Max 5 standalone - why bother with it? Every Max owner if they don't have Live should get it - they can afford it if you could buy Max.

Perhaps Max owners who buy Live should get Max for Live for nothing - Ableton should give C74 some money for each sale!

1 year ago
Wetterberg

I must say I'm kind of awestruck with these new prices! With time the
Lemur has become a logical extension of MaxMSP/Jitter for me, and that
pricing...phew.

Jonathan F. Hallstrom skrev:
> This was just too good not to pass on... I just discovered (many
> thanks to Matthias Schneider-Hollek for tipping me off) that
> JazzMutant is offering a special (now through March 15) where they're
> selling brand new Lemurs (with the new version 2 firmware) at their
> web store for 1819 Euro/USD, shipping included! Yes, you read it
> right... US purchasers can get a Lemur for $1819, over $1100 less than
> the normal list price and they throw in the shipping for nothing!
>
> ... hmmm... I sort of sound like an advertisement, don't I... sorry.

1 year ago
robert

Speaking only for myself, I'm very excited about Max for Live and the
Akai product.

However, having purchased both the Albeton 7 Suite and Max/MSP/Jitter
in 2007,
I would like to know how much it's going to cost me, if anything, for
Max for Live?

I will be upgrading my Ableton Suite 7 to 8.

I have applied for the beta testing for Max for Live.

I'm going to try to trade in some other equipment or sell some
hardware on eBay in order to get the Akai Product for Live Performance
(meaning on stage; MainStage :)

So I hope it's not some big costly hassle to use have to purchase an
expensive Max for Live.

I would hope that Ableton and Cycling '74 can work together to provide
Max for Live as a Free option when upgrading to Live 8 Suite, as I
have no need for "Latin Percussion" (one of the items included in the
Live Suite 8 upgrade).

Frankly, I wish they'd just provide the option of including Max for
Live as part of the Live 7 to 8 Suite upgrade and replace the Latin
Percussion.

I've just purchased Max/MSP/Jitter so I have other motivations for
wanting to go the Max for Live route rather than Pluggo (though I plan
to learn Pluggo in time).

Someone from Cycling '74 please contact me regarding this if possible.

-r

On Jan 16, 2009, at 11:14 PM, Jared Dunne wrote:

>
> cool, thanks. tbh, i think i'd rather design my own Live inspired
> pluggos, test them in Live, then perform them in Live.
>
> it could be kinda scary (not as stable) to patch in real-time...
>
> Quote: RabidRaja wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 20:08
> ----------------------------------------------------
>> the main thing is the ease of development flow. without
>> interruption of the music you can edit and change/swap-out devices
>> in realtime. with pluggo you would build in Max then test in the
>> host app.
>>
>> check this article for how this was part of Robert and David's
>> motivation to integrate:
>> http://www.cycling74.com/story/2009/1/15/112631/799
>>
>>
>> Quote: meloday wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 19:28
>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>> may someone be so kind as to explain the advantages of Max for
>>> Live over designing pluggo's/vst's and using them in Live?
>>>
>>> thanks!
>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
>

1 year ago
robert

Well I don't mind the post as I don't know what a Lemur is or
JazzMutant.

I'll do some searching but can you expound on how it can be used in
live performance (not the product but on stage).

-r

On Jan 16, 2009, at 11:55 PM, Jonathan F. Hallstrom wrote:

> This was just too good not to pass on... I just discovered (many
> thanks to Matthias Schneider-Hollek for tipping me off) that
> JazzMutant is offering a special (now through March 15) where
> they're selling brand new Lemurs (with the new version 2 firmware)
> at their web store for 1819 Euro/USD, shipping included! Yes, you
> read it right... US purchasers can get a Lemur for $1819, over $1100
> less than the normal list price and they throw in the shipping for
> nothing!
>
> ... hmmm... I sort of sound like an advertisement, don't I... sorry.
>
>

1 year ago
robert

Great, so how about cost?

If somebody has purchased Max/Msp/Jitter in 2007 and Ableton Suite 7
in 2007, will it be free, or cost a small fortune?

-r

On Jan 17, 2009, at 2:45 AM, Andrew Pask wrote:

>
>> cool, thanks. tbh, i think i'd rather design my own Live inspired
>> >pluggos, test them in Live, then perform them in Live.
>
>> it could be kinda scary (not as stable) to patch in real-time...
>
>
> Given that we have a combined Ableton/C74 engineering effort on
> this, as opposed to the whims of 3rd party plug-in SDKs, you can be
> fairly confident that the performance of M4L will be much more
> stable than a pluggo plug. Very significant improvements, especially
> concerning timing, have already been made.
>
> The up close and personal access to Live via the API is something
> plugins are not capable of doing as well.
>
> -A
>
>
>

1 year ago
robert

I totally Agree !!!

If they want to partner in money, how about Offering a Special Akai/
Max-for-Live, for people who have Live 7 Suite Edu and upgrading to
Live 8 Edu, and Max/MSP/Jitter 5 full version.

On Jan 17, 2009, at 5:58 AM, David Molyneux wrote:

>
> Perhaps this will replace Max 5 standalone - why bother with it?
> Every Max owner if they don't have Live should get it - they can
> afford it if you could buy Max.
>
> Perhaps Max owners who buy Live should get Max for Live for nothing
> - Ableton should give C74 some money for each sale!

1 year ago
Anthony Palomba

Quote: strav100 wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 03:58
----------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps this will replace Max 5 standalone - why bother with it? Every Max owner if they don't have Live should get it - they can afford it if you could buy Max.
>
> Perhaps Max owners who buy Live should get Max for Live for nothing - Ableton should give C74 some money for each sale!
----------------------------------------------------

No, I think Max standalone should always be an option. I have
been getting along just fine with out Live for years.
People should not have to pay $500 for Live (plus whatever M4L
costs) in order to use Max.

M4L does not allow you to develop your own externals (or share
them) so I don't think I would ever give up Max standalone.

1 year ago
joshua goldberg

plus live is not necessarily the ideal environment for installation
work.

On Jan 17, 2009, at 10:51 AM, Anthony Palomba wrote:

>
> Quote: strav100 wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 03:58
> ----------------------------------------------------
>> Perhaps this will replace Max 5 standalone - why bother with it?
>> Every Max owner if they don't have Live should get it - they can
>> afford it if you could buy Max.
>>
>> Perhaps Max owners who buy Live should get Max for Live for nothing
>> - Ableton should give C74 some money for each sale!
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No, I think Max standalone should always be an option. I have
> been getting along just fine with out Live for years.
> People should not have to pay $500 for Live (plus whatever M4L
> costs) in order to use Max.
>
> M4L does not allow you to develop your own externals (or share
> them) so I don't think I would ever give up Max standalone.
>

1 year ago
occular

Is it a correct price politics from Jazzmutant? US users get it much cheaper than european users, the street-price for new Lemur is in Germany 1900 Euro. So 100 Euro off isn't big deal for me.. But nearly 40% off = 1380 Euro for it, that would be a deal !!!

P.S: can I pay in $$$ from europe ???

On Jan 16, 2009, at 11:55 PM, Jonathan F. Hallstrom wrote:

> This was just too good not to pass on... I just discovered (many
> thanks to Matthias Schneider-Hollek for tipping me off) that
> JazzMutant is offering a special (now through March 15) where
> they're selling brand new Lemurs (with the new version 2 firmware)
> at their web store for 1819 Euro/USD, shipping included! Yes, you
> read it right... US purchasers can get a Lemur for $1819, over $1100
> less than the normal list price and they throw in the shipping for
> nothing!
>
> ... hmmm... I sort of sound like an advertisement, don't I... sorry.
>

1 year ago
Wetterberg

I'm certain it'll update on the european front as well - otherwise the
price difference could pay for a trip over there and back no sweat, hehe.

Andreas.

Roman Weingardt skrev:
> Is it a correct price politics from Jazzmutant? US users get it much cheaper than european users, the street-price for new Lemur is in Germany 1900 Euro. So 100 Euro off isn't big deal for me.. But nearly 40% off = 1380 Euro for it, that would be a deal !!!
>
> P.S: can I pay in $$$ from europe ???
>
> .
>
>

1 year ago
occular

I hope so, still save some $$$ for..

1 year ago
theblackpeacock

i wonder how midi control of matrixcntrl will be managed?

1 year ago
Bjorn Vayner

Can we access parameters of Ableton's devices with the API stuff?
For example, can I use my own LFO to modulate Sampler's Pitch envelope Attack or the Track Volume? Like straight routing, without having to go thru a virtual MIDI driver and Live's MIDI Learn?

1 year ago
roger.carruthers

Does MFL apply to the 'Lite' & Digidesign editions?
I've owned a Digi version for several years, but never really bothered to
look at it. The amount of excitement that this announcement has caused,
makes me think that perhaps it's about time I did...
Cheers
Roger

1 year ago
Jeremy Bernstein

Hey Kurt, welcome! Nice to have you here.

jb

Quote: pyrolator wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 10:43
----------------------------------------------------
> Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:06
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > Pricing info hasn't been released, but as has been written elsewhere in this thread, if you own both Max 5 and Live 8, the price of the Max for Live addon will be very reasonable.
>
> Dear Jeremy,
> I am normally a quiet reader of this forum, but a user of Max/Msp/Jitter AND Live from the first days of these programs on. Today it was time to join the forum.
>
> I just would like to say thank you and congratulations! This is a big step for me and I got really exited about it, when I read this yesterday. Both programs will benefit from this colaboration, I am very sure about that !
>
> best wishes
> Kurt Dahlke
----------------------------------------------------

1 year ago
Jeremy Bernstein

Automatable parameters are, unsuprisingly, limited to single numerical values. This means that, in the case of an object like matrixctrl, you'll need to either separate the values you care about into individual parameters, or forget about using it for automation. Objects like matrixctrl, whose values are represented by lists, can still be publicized to Live as a kind of 'blob' parameter -- the values will be saved in Live presets, and with the Set, but can't be automated.

jb

Quote: theblackpeacock wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 01:32
----------------------------------------------------
> i wonder how midi control of matrixcntrl will be managed?
----------------------------------------------------

1 year ago
Jeremy Bernstein

Quote: Bjorn Vayner wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 16:37
----------------------------------------------------
> Can we access parameters of Ableton's devices with the API stuff?
> For example, can I use my own LFO to modulate Sampler's Pitch envelope Attack or the Track Volume? Like straight routing, without having to go thru a virtual MIDI driver and Live's MIDI Learn?
----------------------------------------------------

This is going to be possible, but it won't be super-simple to set up, and will run in the GUI, rather than at audio-rate. This is just one of those limitations of the environment. Maybe we'll find some nicer ways to deal with it in future versions.

jb

1 year ago
Jeremy Bernstein

M4L will only run in the full version of Live 8.

jb

Quote: roger.carruthers wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 18:23
----------------------------------------------------
> Does MFL apply to the 'Lite' & Digidesign editions?
> I've owned a Digi version for several years, but never really bothered to
> look at it. The amount of excitement that this announcement has caused,
> makes me think that perhaps it's about time I did...
> Cheers
> Roger
----------------------------------------------------

1 year ago
robert

Does this mean that M4L will not run on an Educational Version of
Ableton Suite 8?

Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
> M4L will only run in the full version of Live 8.
>
> jb
>
> Quote: roger.carruthers wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 18:23
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
>> Does MFL apply to the 'Lite' & Digidesign editions?
>> I've owned a Digi version for several years, but never really bothered to
>> look at it. The amount of excitement that this announcement has caused,
>> makes me think that perhaps it's about time I did...
>> Cheers
>> Roger
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>

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1 year ago
Jeremy Bernstein

Quote: robert wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 19:59
----------------------------------------------------
> Does this mean that M4L will not run on an Educational Version of
> Ableton Suite 8?
>
> Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
> > M4L will only run in the full version of Live 8.
> >
> > jb
> >
----------------------------------------------------

The educational version is the the full version, but with educational pricing. What do you think?

jb

1 year ago
robert

Well my Ableton account shows the current option to upgrade to 8 and I
will be doing that.

With money being so tight though, and wanting to spend more time on
New Music forms of development instead of Contracting for a living for
"Business" (which sucks), I'm a little concerned about the price of
M4L cost.

But it's been said here that it will be reasonable; how reasonable for
a Max/MSP 5.0, Jitter, Pluggo, Mode, Hypno, Octirama and Upmix
customer; I purchased all these in about March of 2007 (full license).

I've been busy doing other research also which has slowed my learning
just a bit, but I have a vested interest in wanting C'74 to kick some
azz, and Live 8 I love.

I'm a bit pissed at Gibson though for charging so much for HD.6X.Pro
and now they come out with the DarkFire at lower cost and better
features, and the 5k+ HD.6X.Pro is a patented technology that is
supposed to be a long term investment, yet it came with the freakin'
lame SONAR 5 and I use a Mac, not a PC, let alone SONAR 6 had been out
for a while.

A lot of people are pissed at Gibson right now regarding their
handling of Dark Fire -- I'll stop there off-topic, but expense and
trust in the investment of vendor's software is a big issue right now
regarding the economy (Thanks W for turning a national surplus into
the worst debt ever; compounding housing sit.). Yeah, politico a bit,
but this all works into the UpMix.

-r

On Jan 18, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:

>
> Quote: robert wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 19:59
> ----------------------------------------------------
>> Does this mean that M4L will not run on an Educational Version of
>> Ableton Suite 8?
>>
>> Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
>>> M4L will only run in the full version of Live 8.
>>>
>>> jb
>>>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> The educational version is the the full version, but with
> educational pricing. What do you think?
>
> jb
>

1 year ago
Jean-Francois Charles

But a good thing is that the Live demo is fully functional without time
limitation. You can't edit a set, but an installation may run with it.

> plus live is not necessarily the ideal environment for installation
> work.
>

1 year ago
pechnatunk

This is amazing news for C74, Ableton and the rest of us.

It's already been touched on earlier, but I'm going to ask again with my own examples.

At the moment Live does not support NRPN's, if Live handles the midi in/out in M4L will I be able to send NRPN's constructed in Max/MSP out M4L's midi out? I've been wanting to use Live's GUI with Max via rewire but it "just doesn't work"

How integrated is the programing? Ableton's clip launch function is useful but not in depth enough, will I be able to weight the launch of clips in a more complex way eg. stochastic music.

And lastly, what can Max 5 do that M4L won't - will it be watered down in any way, - missing objects?

either way, I'm excited.

1 year ago
Veqtor

Three questions:
1) Will it be possible to embed externals inside created live devices?
2) Will it be possible to lock live devices from editing, so as to be able to for example sell or distribute said device without the fear of it's internal workings being exposed to the general public?
3) Will there be an educational discount on the max4live addon?

1 year ago
Guillaume Evrard

1 year ago
Parametex

Hi all!

I was wanted to give lot's of KUDOS to the c74 folk for the wonderful integration that the M4L will bring!

I feel that you guys have truly generated a cooperation of the century!

Cheers,
P.

1 year ago
LeDids

[Robert]

Check out this quick into video I did about my Lemur, it should give you and idea of what it can do. It's used on stage by people like Daft Punk, Justice or Deadmau5 to name a few.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEjvb-yIRwY

[C74]

How will the 'observer' mode work (where you can interface with Live's UI)?

Will the Max Patch still sit inside a device in a track somewhere or will there be another place to insert/edit those?

1 year ago
Anthony Palomba

Quote: Veqtor wrote on Mon, 19 January 2009 04:39
----------------------------------------------------
> Three questions:
> 1) Will it be possible to embed externals inside created live devices?
> 2) Will it be possible to lock live devices from editing, so as to be able to for example sell or distribute said device without the fear of it's internal workings being exposed to the general public?
> 3) Will there be an educational discount on the max4live addon?
----------------------------------------------------

I am particularly interested in knowing how 3rd party externals
will be handled or if there is a plan to handle them. I have
developed many of my own and I would definitely want to use
them in Max4Live. Is there any limitation there?

1 year ago
stringtapper

Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Mon, 19 January 2009 11:40
----------------------------------------------------
> I am particularly interested in knowing how 3rd party externals
> will be handled or if there is a plan to handle them. I have
> developed many of my own and I would definitely want to use
> them in Max4Live. Is there any limitation there?
>
>
----------------------------------------------------

From what has been said externals will be supported but the same issues with portability will exist if you want to distribute M4L devices.

I'm very curious to see how stable something like [fiddle~] will be inside Live.

1 year ago
robert

Dieder,

Interesting.

However, I believe the following demo, shows why one might choose
Lemur (v2?) and it's API capabilities, over the Akai Live controller.

However again, I have the MC Control and MC Mix (EuCon Protocol) from
Euphonix, and I've noticed a very distinct tactile difference in the
ability to use the Akai controller versus a touch-screen only.

So I'm still up in the air myself as to which to choose....Ultimately
both are good...it's almost as if the more prevalent touch screen
controllers get, the more there will be a need for overlay
transparencies, that have "rough surfaces" and "smooth surfaces".

For a slider you obviously want a smooth surface (like a typical X-Y
pad which is even less slippery than most touchscreens), but there is
a specific need for the ability to place, sticky rough surfaces onto a
touch display surface; perhaps this can be done with static
electricity supplemented with some kind of polymer that is made for
the screen and once placed will not move but can will be slightly
raised, and thus provide a much better degree of performance as a
toggle button.

-r

On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:26 PM, Didier Malenfant wrote:

>
> [Robert]
>
> Check out this quick into video I did about my Lemur, it should give
> you and idea of what it can do. It's used on stage by people like
> Daft Punk, Justice or Deadmau5 to name a few.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEjvb-yIRwY
>
> [C74]
>
> How will the 'observer' mode work (where you can interface with
> Live's UI)?
>
> Will the Max Patch still sit inside a device in a track somewhere or
> will there be another place to insert/edit those?
>

1 year ago
pyrolator

Quote: Guillaume Evrard wrote on Mon, 19 January 2009 15:08
----------------------------------------------------

> "Instead of thinking about what Max is going to do for Live, think about
> what Live is going to do for Max.

Thank you Guillaume for this input. This as absolutly true.
I think the audio engine in Live is very good and the new warping engine looks much more flexible, than to handle audio within the MaxMSP audio buffer.
I wonder if the new live.path, live.object and live.observer would also handle this aspects in live?
If so, it would be a huge step in handling audio in MaxMSP.

best wishes
pyro

1 year ago
Matthew Aidekman

First of all, Jeremy, buddy, pal, THANK YOU! Wow... just wow. That goes for the rest of the C74 team. This really renews my faith in max. Cycling 74 continually reaffirms my view that Cycling 74 is the model technology company. Innovation and passion funding life and not the other way around. Thank you so much. It really gives me hope!

Questions:

1) Will the work you've done to ensure that audio runs uninterrupted in live be applied to max? What exactly is it?

2) How does max-for-live differ from max-as-plugin + live.objects ? Put a different way, does MaxForLive - live.objects + digi.objects = MaxForPT ? I know you've stated that pluggo is alive but this would be the most joyful end to pluggo I could think of.

1 year ago
Emmanuel Jourdan

On 21 janv. 09, at 08:36, Matthew Aidekman wrote:

> 1) Will the work you've done to ensure that audio runs uninterrupted
> in live be applied to max? What exactly is it?
>
> 2) How does max-for-live differ from max-as-plugin + live.objects ?
> Put a different way, does MaxForLive - live.objects + digi.objects
> = MaxForPT ?

live.* objects for instance can be controlled by MIDI using the MIDI
assignment feature of Live. They also get the colors from the Live
environment so you're M4L devices behave exactly the same way of the
standard Live's one. There's an Audio + Automation realtime pipe
between Live and Max... Those are the kind of things that you can only
get if you have a great partnership.

ej

1 year ago
Venetian

To clarify:
Externals from third party , e.g. fiddle, one's own C and Java externals, are going to run fine since Live is communicating with Max 5 on the machine?

I think Jeremy said as much, but I just wanted to make sure. Also, this looks an excellent extension of both programs - well done to all involved.

Andrew

1 year ago
Jeremy Bernstein

Quote: Venetian wrote on Wed, 21 January 2009 14:25
----------------------------------------------------
>
> To clarify:
> Externals from third party , e.g. fiddle, one's own C and Java externals, are going to run fine since Live is communicating with Max 5 on the machine?
>
> I think Jeremy said as much, but I just wanted to make sure. Also, this looks an excellent extension of both programs - well done to all involved.
>
> Andrew
----------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure if I should reward this "I-know-you-wrote-it-but-I-want-to-read-you-writing-it-again" behavior with anything but a meta-answer.

jb

1 year ago
Venetian

sure - just checking my brain is working right!

1 year ago
robert

For what it's worth, I feel exactly the same about the Philosophy of
C74. They are unique. I've followed the developments of the company
for years but only had the money to get all the products in 2007.

One of my questions is about Aggregation, and a still as yet
unanswered question about a Comprehensive Tutorial, like those
available for many other products.

About Aggregation, what is the most common way to take a Visually
Programmed Patch and bundle it up for use within another patch, a
Black-Box of sorts.

-r

On Jan 21, 2009, at 2:36 AM, Matthew Aidekman wrote:

>
> First of all, Jeremy, buddy, pal, THANK YOU! Wow... just wow.
> That goes for the rest of the C74 team. This really renews my
> faith in max. Cycling 74 continually reaffirms my view that Cycling
> 74 is the model technology company. Innovation and passion funding
> life and not the other way around. Thank you so much. It really
> gives me hope!
>
> Questions:
>
> 1) Will the work you've done to ensure that audio runs uninterrupted
> in live be applied to max? What exactly is it?
>
> 2) How does max-for-live differ from max-as-plugin + live.objects ?
> Put a different way, does MaxForLive - live.objects + digi.objects
> = MaxForPT ? I know you've stated that pluggo is alive but this
> would be the most joyful end to pluggo I could think of.
>
>

1 year ago
Wetterberg

Robert Thompson skrev:
> One of my questions is about Aggregation, and a still as yet
> unanswered question about a Comprehensive Tutorial, like those
> available for many other products.
Eh? There's got to be like a hundred tutorials that come with MaxMSP?
>
> About Aggregation, what is the most common way to take a Visually
> Programmed Patch and bundle it up for use within another patch, a
> Black-Box of sorts.
Make an abstraction. That process is also explained in the
aforementioned tutorials.
Andreas.

1 year ago
robert

Yes, yes, I know there are tons of Tutorials.

I'm talking about Demonstrative Video Tutorials. I'm doing one myself
for Lynda.com for Motion 3 particle systems.

No need for the "Eh?" -- this is a nice and peaceful list and I'm a
newcomer, please refrain from slights of insult like that.

-r

On Jan 21, 2009, at 11:37 AM, Andreas Wetterberg wrote:

> Robert Thompson skrev:
>> One of my questions is about Aggregation, and a still as yet
>> unanswered question about a Comprehensive Tutorial, like those
>> available for many other products.
> Eh? There's got to be like a hundred tutorials that come with MaxMSP?
>>
>> About Aggregation, what is the most common way to take a Visually
>> Programmed Patch and bundle it up for use within another patch, a
>> Black-Box of sorts.
> Make an abstraction. That process is also explained in the
> aforementioned tutorials.
> Andreas.
>
>

1 year ago
Wetterberg

Robert Thompson skrev:
> Yes, yes, I know there are tons of Tutorials.
>
> I'm talking about Demonstrative Video Tutorials. I'm doing one myself
> for Lynda.com for Motion 3 particle systems.

Ah, you didn't say. Makes sense, and it's been discussed before - but
it's going to take days of video, not hours. A herculean task, no doubt.
>
> No need for the "Eh?" -- this is a nice and peaceful list and I'm a
> newcomer, please refrain from slights of insult like that.
"Eh" isn't an insult or a slight of anything. LMGTFY:
-
"an interrogative utterance, usually expressing surprise or doubt or
seeking confirmation"
-

Did you get the abstractions to work?

Andreas
>
> -r
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2009, at 11:37 AM, Andreas Wetterberg wrote:
>
>> Robert Thompson skrev:
>>> One of my questions is about Aggregation, and a still as yet
>>> unanswered question about a Comprehensive Tutorial, like those
>>> available for many other products.
>> Eh? There's got to be like a hundred tutorials that come with MaxMSP?
>>>
>>> About Aggregation, what is the most common way to take a Visually
>>> Programmed Patch and bundle it up for use within another patch, a
>>> Black-Box of sorts.
>> Make an abstraction. That process is also explained in the
>> aforementioned tutorials.
>> Andreas.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> .
>

1 year ago
Andrew Benson

Hi Matthew,
> 2) How does max-for-live differ from max-as-plugin + live.objects
> ? Put a different way, does MaxForLive - live.objects +
> digi.objects = MaxForPT ? I know you've stated that pluggo is
> alive but this would be the most joyful end to pluggo I could
> think of.

Allow me to present the "Edit" button...
The equation you present doesn't fully take into account the intertwined and thorough integration that Max for Live represents. For example:

--Blank Max devices (Instrument,Audio,Midi effects) can be dropped into a device channel from the standard list of devices, and then edited at will.

--All of the ITM objects in your patch will automatically use the Live transport as their master, even while your patch is in editing mode.

--Because we are working collaboratively with Ableton, we are able to optimize things like event timing to be way more accurate and efficient than Pluggo has ever been.

--Since this is a long-term partnership, M4L isn't going to be vulnerable to unexpected changes in technology, like VST or RTAS specs often do at the whim of those in control.

You will most likely be surprised at how the integration of Max into the Live context will change the way you approach patch writing, since it is easy to click the edit button and tweak things as you go. Also, given that the live.* objects are immediately visible to the Live mapping/automation engine, designing UI's will be really easy. No mucking about with "pp" objects or plugconfig files. Via the live.param~ object, you will be able to get sample-accurate automation curve data in your patch as well.

I hope this clears things up a little.

Andrew B.

1 year ago
btovsky

holy moly. excuse me while i go change my pants...
b

On Jan 21, 2009, at 1:26 PM, Andrew Benson wrote:

>
> Hi Matthew,
>> 2) How does max-for-live differ from max-as-plugin + live.objects
>> ? Put a different way, does MaxForLive - live.objects +
>> digi.objects = MaxForPT ? I know you've stated that pluggo is
>> alive but this would be the most joyful end to pluggo I could
>> think of.
>
> Allow me to present the "Edit" button...
> The equation you present doesn't fully take into account the
> intertwined and thorough integration that Max for Live represents.
> For example:
>
> --Blank Max devices (Instrument,Audio,Midi effects) can be dropped
> into a device channel from the standard list of devices, and then
> edited at will.
>
> --All of the ITM objects in your patch will automatically use the
> Live transport as their master, even while your patch is in editing
> mode.
>
> --Because we are working collaboratively with Ableton, we are able
> to optimize things like event timing to be way more accurate and
> efficient than Pluggo has ever been.
>
> --Since this is a long-term partnership, M4L isn't going to be
> vulnerable to unexpected changes in technology, like VST or RTAS
> specs often do at the whim of those in control.
>
> You will most likely be surprised at how the integration of Max
> into the Live context will change the way you approach patch
> writing, since it is easy to click the edit button and tweak things
> as you go. Also, given that the live.* objects are immediately
> visible to the Live mapping/automation engine, designing UI's will
> be really easy. No mucking about with "pp" objects or plugconfig
> files. Via the live.param~ object, you will be able to get sample-
> accurate automation curve data in your patch as well.
>
> I hope this clears things up a little.
>
> Andrew B.
> --
>
>

1 year ago
Gregory Taylor

> About Aggregation, what is the most common way to take a Visually
> Programmed Patch and bundle it up for use within another patch, a
> Black-Box of sorts.

If you're referring to the ability to create and reuse bits of what you patch, then I would suggest you have a look at Tutorials 14 (Encapsulation) and 15 (Abstractions).

If you mean you want to create a patch that includes UI objects for its interface which you can then reuse, that's called a bpatcher, and a little quality time with Interface tutorial 1 should sort you out.

1 year ago
Matthew Aidekman

now THAT excites me. obviously the plug in world has repeatedly pissed you guys off. And while it's a bit saddening that something more generic can't be worked out for the sake of spreading the max seed far and wide, dedicated relationship obviously has it's pros. When ever that grace period starts, you know I'll be buying myself a copy of live.

I'd like maxfor a lot of things. I cant think of a single thing in my life that wouldn't be improved by an edit button.

1 year ago
st.scholl

hello,

i m looking for traces of max... concerning the musical practice, specially the musical consciousness!
can you write me your opinion about what max has changed in the last twenty years.

thanks a lot.
http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0901xLSVideo
Welches Video willst du sehen? Neu! Webweit Videos suchen. Hier starten!

1 year ago
stringtapper

Quote: st.scholl wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 09:58
----------------------------------------------------
>
> hello,
>
> i m looking for traces of max... concerning the musical practice, specially the musical consciousness!
> can you write me your opinion about what max has changed in the last twenty years.
>
> thanks a lot.
> http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0901xLSVideo
> Welches Video willst du sehen? Neu! Webweit Videos suchen. Hier starten!
>
>
----------------------------------------------------

Not sure what this has to do with Max for Live, but nevertheless I would suggest this article as a starting point:

http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/Publications/dartmouth-reprint.dir/

1 year ago
Achim

Hey, hope I'm not to late with my question regrading m4l

Will it be possible to programmatically load a clip by sending a sample's filepath and the session-view-coordinates to live?

Resulting in the possibility to create custom filebrowsers which completely work on a MIDI-controller's LCD display(s).
This seems like the last step missing from a completely screen-less setup.

Thanks in advance
Achim

1 year ago
stringtapper

Soooo... Any updates? Public beta?

It would be cool if we could at least get some details about how much control the API integration will afford. New article with a few more tidbits? Pretty please?

1 year ago
Roman Thilenius

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText"><b>Achim wrote on Mon, 26 January 2009 13:58</b></td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
Resulting in the possibility to create custom filebrowsers which completely work on a MIDI-controller's LCD display(s).
This seems like the last step missing from a completely screen-less setup.

Achim
</td></tr></table>

real artists perform screenless patching, live on a dark stage, on a computer without keybord and mouse.

-110

1 year ago
Adam Murray

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText"><b>stringtapper wrote on Fri, 26 June 2009 14:01</b></td></tr><tr><td class="quote">Soooo... Any updates? Public beta?

</td></tr></table>
If you are interested in beta testing you should take a look over here: http://www.cycling74.com/special/maxforlive

Near the top it says "If you are interested in participating in the beta-test program for Max for Live, please e-mail our Max for Live Beta Test Coordinator" (with an email link).

1 year ago
stringtapper

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText"><b>Adam Murray wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 10:27</b></td></tr><tr><td class="quote"><table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText"><b>stringtapper wrote on Fri, 26 June 2009 14:01</b></td></tr><tr><td class="quote">Soooo... Any updates? Public beta?

</td></tr></table>
If you are interested in beta testing you should take a look over here: http://www.cycling74.com/special/maxforlive

Near the top it says "If you are interested in participating in the beta-test program for Max for Live, please e-mail our Max for Live Beta Test Coordinator" (with an email link).

</td></tr></table>

Yeah, I've been on the list since day one. Even sent an example patch illustrating how I use Max ReWired with Live, with nary a peep from the beta team.

1 year ago
mzed

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText"><b>Roman Thilenius wrote on Fri, 26 June 2009 14:19</b></td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
real artists perform screenless patching, live on a dark stage, on a computer without keybord and mouse.

-110
</td></tr></table>

These guys get pretty close:

http://www.myspace.com/pantomorf

mz

1 year ago
stax67

Hi, I have read through this thread and I am probably setting myself up for a cussing but I am still not clear:

If I own Live 8 and get MFL, will I be able to get a pre made max5 patch for say a monome and use this patch (with a monome) in MFL, or do I have to have max5 for this.

Alternatively will there be a way of converting max5 patches to work in MFL.

Cheers Stax

11 months ago
stringtapper

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText"><b>stax67 wrote on Wed, 16 September 2009 11:05</b></td></tr><tr><td class="quote">Hi, I have read through this thread and I am probably setting myself up for a cussing but I am still not clear:

If I own Live 8 and get MFL, will I be able to get a pre made max5 patch for say a monome and use this patch (with a monome) in MFL, or do I have to have max5 for this.

Alternatively will there be a way of converting max5 patches to work in MFL.

Cheers Stax
</td></tr></table>

M4L IS Max 5 with the ability to pair with Live 8. You can use pre-existing Max patches but in order to do so you must first create a M4L device in Live, copy the code from the pre-existing Max patch and paste it into the window of the new M4L device, and then save the device into Live's library.

Edit: Be aware that things will have to be tweaked once they are running in the device. It's not going to be a situation where you just "plug and play." You'll need to know what's what in the patch you're trying to port. Live handles all the incoming audio and midi so your patch will have to be modified to account for that.

11 months ago
Roman Thilenius

this thread just had 13373 views when i came in.

11 months ago
Anthony Palomba

So when will Max4Live be released?

11 months ago
Andrew Pask

soon, hopefully

-A

11 months ago