jigen dot

this might be a stupid question but i went through the forum without fully undestand.

does max/msp run on the new macintel? if it does, is there any issue i should be aware of?

about-max-on-macintel

I have been trying max/msp/jitter on a MacBookPro, it seems to work fine.

The only problem so far is the Java Virtual Machine which is not installed

by default on the MBP. Also, I think I read recently on this list that it is

I'd be glad to have more precisions though.

I have been trying max/msp/jitter on a MacBookPro, it seems to work fine.
The only problem so far is the Java Virtual Machine which is not installed
by default on the MBP. Also, I think I read recently on this list that it is
not possible to compile externals.

Is it possible to install the Java Virtual Machine you are talking 

Is it possible to install the Java Virtual Machine you are talking 
about? Where can we find it?
Thank you,
Philippe


On 9-Apr-2006, at 14:20, Jean-Baptiste Thiebaut wrote:

> I think I read recently on this list that it is not possible to 

XCode has idiosyncracies, as it has since forever. But it can work. 

Ironically, CodeWarrior (under Rosetta) feels a good deal snappier 

than native XCode. Of course, XCode is the only option for UniBins.

Peter Castine +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter

iCE: Sequencing, Recording & |home | chez nous|

Interface Building for |bei uns | i nostri|

On 9-Apr-2006, at 14:20, Jean-Baptiste Thiebaut wrote:
> I think I read recently on this list that it is not possible to  
> compile externals.

XCode has idiosyncracies, as it has since forever. But it can work.  
Ironically, CodeWarrior (under Rosetta) feels a good deal snappier  
than native XCode. Of course, XCode is the only option for UniBins.

--------------    http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/    -------------
Peter Castine             +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter

While waiting for an Universal Binary of Max for OSX you can always intall windows on your MacBook and use the Windows version of Max.

Quote: Peter Castine wrote on Mon, 10 April 2006 03:15

----------------------------------------------------

> Dare I ask if anyone has tried installing an OEM XP onto Boot Camp? 

> Purely out of academic interest. The scholarly mind is curious.

I just installed Boot Camp and XP on my Macbook last night. I believe it's a retail version of XP Pro SP2.

Anyhow, things are working great, quite quick. Certainly quicker than rosetta!

Quote: Peter Castine wrote on Mon, 10 April 2006 03:15
----------------------------------------------------

> Dare I ask if anyone has tried installing an OEM XP onto Boot Camp?  
> Purely out of academic interest. The scholarly mind is curious.
>

Anyhow, things are working great, quite quick.  Certainly quicker than rosetta!

> I just installed Boot Camp and XP on my Macbook last night. I believe it's

why would anyone want to install windows on a mac? this is a serious

>
> I just installed Boot Camp and XP on my Macbook last night. I believe it's
> a retail version of XP Pro SP2.
>
>
why would anyone want to install windows on a mac? this is a serious
question by the way!!

Quote: robin wrote on Tue, 11 April 2006 13:04

> > I just installed Boot Camp and XP on my Macbook last night. I believe it's

> why would anyone want to install windows on a mac? this is a serious

Part of my job involves creating Max patches and objects for public use, and compiling for both platforms. It's nice to only have one computer for that.

I also develop web content. Again, nice to check with Windows IE on the same computer.

The university I work for is very slow at supporting Macs. Often, access to things like the finance system requires a PC.

I haven't played computer games in a while, but I hear there are more for the PC.

There's every reason to think that realtime applications, like Max-MSP-Jitter will be faster under windows on the same hardware.

I can learn more about viruses and security running XP than I can with OSX. (Although, I think the OSX development community should be shaping up soon.)

Quote: robin wrote on Tue, 11 April 2006 13:04
----------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I just installed Boot Camp and XP on my Macbook last night. I believe it's
> > a retail version of XP Pro SP2.
> >
> >
> why would anyone want to install windows on a mac? this is a serious
> question by the way!!
>

Part of my job involves creating Max patches and objects for public use, and compiling for both platforms.  It's nice to only have one computer for that.

I also develop web content.  Again, nice to check with Windows IE on the same computer.

The university I work for is very slow at supporting Macs.  Often, access to things like the finance system requires a PC.

> There's every reason to think that realtime applications, like Max- 

> MSP-Jitter will be faster under windows on the same hardware.

Faster under Windows than native under OS X/Intel? How so?

nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- 

> There's every reason to think that realtime applications, like Max- 
> MSP-Jitter will be faster under windows on the same hardware.

   nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http:// 
www.cassiel.com


i see. that wasn't a sarcastic question, i honestly wondered. i guess there

are benefits, but it seemed to me a strange move to enable it. could you

imagine microsoft encouraging people to install os x on pc's?!

i see. that wasn't a sarcastic question, i honestly wondered. i guess there
are benefits, but it seemed to me a strange move to enable it. could you
imagine microsoft encouraging people to install os x on pc's?!

On Apr 11, 2006, at 1:31 PM, robin foster wrote:

> i see. that wasn't a sarcastic question, i honestly wondered. i 

> guess there are benefits, but it seemed to me a strange move to 

> enable it. could you imagine microsoft encouraging people to 

Of course not, since MS doesn't make PCs, however it has been much 

discussed that Dell would like to offer OS X on Dell hardware.

If you're really curious there are a billion online discussions to 

this extent. Personally, as a cross platform developer, I'm very much 

looking forward to only needing one machine to perform cross platform 

Btw, in our tests so far, some things will be faster under XP and 

some things will be faster under OS X running native Max/MSP/Jitter 

on the same MacTel hardware. Different compilers, different operating 

systems, different driver models, and differing levels of QT, OpenGL, 

etc. support leads to differing performance even on the same HW. For 

some applications you might want XP for maximum performance, for 

> i see. that wasn't a sarcastic question, i honestly wondered. i  
> guess there are benefits, but it seemed to me a strange move to  
> enable it. could you imagine microsoft encouraging people to  
> install os x on pc's?!

Of course not, since MS doesn't make PCs, however it has been much  
discussed that Dell would like to offer OS X on Dell hardware.

If you're really curious there are a billion online discussions to  
this extent. Personally, as a cross platform developer, I'm very much  
looking forward to only needing one machine to perform cross platform  
development and testing.

Btw, in our tests so far, some things will be faster under XP and  
some things will be faster under OS X running native Max/MSP/Jitter  
on the same MacTel hardware. Different compilers, different operating  
systems, different driver models, and differing levels of QT, OpenGL,  
etc. support leads to differing performance even on the same HW. For  
some applications you might want XP for maximum performance, for  
others OS X.

On 11-Apr-2006, at 22:04, robin foster wrote:

> why would anyone want to install windows on a mac? this is a 

Just to underscore the obvious: take a typical developer of externals 

- Two. (Actually three in my case, because I also support OS 9... 

it's pretty painless once you're set up, but let's be accurate).

2) How many computers does he need to have?

- Currently, for a variety of obscure reasons I won't go into now, 

I'm at four in my office, but call it two minimum.

3) How many computer does he want to have to finance?

- As few as possible to get the job done.

Believe me, it's not like I enjoy staring at the BSOD. But if I can 

reduce my hardware investment, it's a no-brainer that I want to dual- 

Nobody's forcing anyone to install Windows on their Mac if they don't 

want it (not yet, anyway). But there are gazillions of people out 

there for whom reducing the number of machines they have to work with 

is nothing short of a godsend. For larger software shops, this can 

make a difference in the 8-digit ballpark, maybe even more.

BTW, who wins, who loses in the dual-boot game? Apple (whose machines 

> why would anyone want to install windows on a mac? this is a  
> serious question by the way!!

Just to underscore the obvious: take a typical developer of externals  
for Max/MSP.

- Two. (Actually three in my case, because I also support OS 9...  
it's pretty painless once you're set up, but let's be accurate).

- Currently, for a variety of obscure reasons I won't go into now,  
I'm at four in my office, but call it two minimum.

Believe me, it's not like I enjoy staring at the BSOD. But if I can  
reduce my hardware investment, it's a no-brainer that I want to dual- 
boot.

Nobody's forcing anyone to install Windows on their Mac if they don't  
want it (not yet, anyway). But there are gazillions of people out  
there for whom reducing the number of machines they have to work with  
is nothing short of a godsend. For larger software shops, this can  
make a difference in the 8-digit ballpark, maybe even more.

BTW, who wins, who loses in the dual-boot game? Apple (whose machines  
can now dual-boot) or Dell & Co.?

i've started something pretty big here! must stop with the flippant comments

ive only recently made the move from pc to mac, having used a pc at home at

a mac at college/uni for the past four years.

the thought of having to go back to windows now, despite the fact i am still

a hell of a lot more familiar with it, is not pleasant. in fact every time i

have to use my pc i feel anger building. granted, i can see that there

obviously are many reasons for dual booting. I just imagined the i-pod

generation all spending close to two grand on a shiny new laptop and

installing xp on it, without being away of an alternative. i guess i just

wondered in what instances apple intended boot camp to be used. but yeah,

all that seems pretty obvious really. this is probably a subject for another

i've started something pretty big here! must stop with the flippant comments
on mailing lists :)

ive only recently made the move from pc to mac, having used a pc at home at
a mac at college/uni for the past four years.
the thought of having to go back to windows now, despite the fact i am still
a hell of a lot more familiar with it, is not pleasant. in fact every time i
have to use my pc i feel anger building. granted, i can see that there
obviously are many reasons for dual booting. I just imagined the i-pod
generation all spending close to two grand on a shiny new laptop and
installing xp on it, without being away of an alternative. i guess i just
wondered in what instances apple intended boot camp to be used. but yeah,
all that seems pretty obvious really. this is probably a subject for another
list. maybe i'll be quiet now

Are you crazy ? We are thousand millions people who wants to do this. 

It's a real dream, you mean... Sincerly, what is a macintosh ? A 

beautiful box, that's all ! Your OS is *absolutely* useless but your 

hardware is very pretty. So know, we just pull it out, and give it a new 

Are you crazy ? We are thousand millions people who wants to do this. 
It's a real dream, you mean... Sincerly, what is a macintosh ? A 
beautiful box, that's all ! Your OS is *absolutely* useless but your 
hardware is very pretty. So know, we just pull it out, and give it a new 
soul.

God, if you could spare a few bucks for "Oblivion" (The Elder's Scroll 

IV) you'll be on your ass ! Astonishing graphics and very very good 

game. So much progress in a few time. By the way, what's the garphic 

God, if you could spare a few bucks for "Oblivion" (The Elder's Scroll 
IV) you'll be on your ass ! Astonishing graphics and very very good 
game. So much progress in a few time. By the way, what's the garphic 
card inside ? An ATI X-something ?

They are different -- both with strengths AND weaknesses. I personally 

am excited about bootcamp for programs such as Adobe Audition (which is 

Can't we all just get along?!
They are different -- both with strengths AND weaknesses.  I personally 
am excited about bootcamp for programs such as Adobe Audition (which is 
very handy).

For those who just get their first XP, i advice you, for your mental 

sanity, to take care of your shell for it is, at the beginning, so ugly 

that you couldn't work on. That was one of the only reasons some windows 

users were a little bit jealous of mac users.

- install you a "mac like" dock (search for Y'z Dock)

- Search for pretty Visual Style replacements at DeviantArt.com (i 

suggest to take a look first at the ones from www.4impressions.net

- hunt for a bunch of icons too (still at DeviantArt)

but for gods sake, don't go on with the default Luna II style, you'll 

http://skins.deviantart.com/windows/visualstyle/

http://browse.deviantart.com/icons/os/?view=1&order=5&am

For those who just get their first XP, i advice you, for your mental 
sanity, to take care of your shell for it is, at the beginning, so ugly 
that you couldn't work on. That was one of the only reasons some windows 
users were a little bit jealous of mac users.

- install you a "mac like" dock (search for Y'z Dock)
- get some fancy tuning (Samurize.org)
- Search for pretty Visual Style replacements at DeviantArt.com (i 
suggest to take a look first at the ones from www.4impressions.net
- hunt for a bunch of icons too (still at DeviantArt)

but for gods sake, don't go on with the default Luna II style, you'll 
get sick.

http://skins.deviantart.com/windows/visualstyle/
  http://browse.deviantart.com/icons/os/?view=1&order=5&am p;limit= 24 < http://browse.deviantart.com/icons/os/?view=1&order=5&am p;limit=24 >
http://www.samurize.com/modules/news/
www.4impressions.net


Ach ! Today it would be The Strokes vs Libertines, unfortunately... Tout 

Ach ! Today it would be The Strokes vs Libertines, unfortunately... Tout 
fout le camp...

>Ach ! Today it would be The Strokes vs Libertines, unfortunately...

ahhh that's 2 different bands??? - i just thought just the promo 

ahhh that's 2 different bands??? - i just thought just the promo 
images changed!

I am going to buy a MacBook to run Windows on... What do you want more, 

the notebook with the most elegant design now able to run Windows :-)

I am going to buy a MacBook to run Windows on... What do you want more, 
the notebook with the most elegant design now able to run Windows :-)


On 11 Apr 2006, at 23:39, Peter Castine wrote:

> BTW, who wins, who loses in the dual-boot game? Apple (whose 

> machines can now dual-boot) or Dell & Co.?

Oh, I suspect Michael Dell had a bad day when Apple announced this.

Is it good for those of us who want to use OS X but not Windows? 

[good] if it means more Macs get sold, and new users start using OS X 

[bad] if developers say "we aren't supporting OS X, since your Mac 

> BTW, who wins, who loses in the dual-boot game? Apple (whose  
> machines can now dual-boot) or Dell & Co.?

Is it good for those of us who want to use OS X but not Windows?  
Well, the scenarios I see are:

[good] if it means more Macs get sold, and new users start using OS X  
rather than/as well as Windows;
[bad]  if developers say "we aren't supporting OS X, since your Mac  
can run Windows".

in the other hand, is'nt anybody aware of OSX running on a usual intel based computer?

I so that once and it was quite unstable.

It was a developement version downloaded from the web before the macintel was released.

of course I don't think apple people would like that as well.

in the other hand, is'nt anybody aware of OSX running on a usual intel based computer?
I so that once and it was quite unstable.
It was a developement version downloaded from the web before the macintel was released.
then it'is microsoft that is fu**ed up!
of course I don't think apple people would like that as well.

On 12-Apr-2006, at 12:26, Nick Rothwell wrote:

> [bad] if developers say "we aren't supporting OS X, since your Mac 

If we Mac users could force developers thinking along these lines to 

give us a $299 discount on their Windows-on-Mac-solution to offset 

the additional cost of the Windows license, then we might be safe.

On 12-Apr-2006, at 12:26, Nick Rothwell wrote:
> [bad]  if developers say "we aren't supporting OS X, since your Mac  
> can run Windows".

If we Mac users could force developers thinking along these lines to  
give us a $299 discount on their Windows-on-Mac-solution to offset  
the additional cost of the Windows license, then we might be safe.

all of this starts sounding a bit as if Apple had just digged their 

grave by switching to intel to me. If there will be no hardware given 

need for developpers to support MacOS they' ll go for the most 

So, will Max 4.6 be multiplatform or purely Gates?

all of this starts sounding a bit as if Apple had just digged their 
grave by switching to intel to me. If there will be no hardware given 
need for developpers to support MacOS they' ll go for the most 
currently used, no?
So, will Max 4.6 be multiplatform or purely Gates?
Titus


Maybe it's time for the list Moderator to install a max-musings-on- 

intel-repercussions forum and we can move this stuff there.

Concrete experience with running Max/MSP/Jitter on different hardware/ 

OS configurations are useful and on-topic. Crystal-gazing is off- 

topic and probably belongs in comp.sys.advocacy.*. (OK, OK, IMO.) 

There's already been plenty of analysis pro/con to read.

This is ultimately Wally's call, but maybe people could at least 

label off-topic posts OT (and save Wally some work, I'm sure he's got 

Maybe it's time for the list Moderator to install a max-musings-on- 
intel-repercussions forum and we can move this stuff there.

Concrete experience with running Max/MSP/Jitter on different hardware/ 
OS configurations are useful and on-topic. Crystal-gazing is off- 
topic and probably belongs in comp.sys.advocacy.*. (OK, OK, IMO.)  
There's already been plenty of analysis pro/con to read.

This is ultimately Wally's call, but maybe people could at least  
label off-topic posts OT (and save Wally some work, I'm sure he's got  
enough to do).

9 out of 10 people buy Apples because it's "stylish." But the dad buying a home computer is going to buy the Dell family desktop. It's way more economical right now. I mean, we pay $2000.00 for a laptop, and as soon as we open it, Apple releases one that is a little bit faster and bigger hard drive and better CPU and so on.

I really don't think it's going to change the market too drastically right now. Only thing I can imagine is that there will be more software/games coming out for both platforms since the arch isn't that different now.

9 out of 10 people buy Apples because it's "stylish."  But the dad buying a home computer is going to buy the Dell family desktop.  It's way more economical right now.  I mean, we pay $2000.00 for a laptop, and as soon as we open it, Apple releases one that is a little bit faster and bigger hard drive and better CPU and so on.  

I really don't think it's going to change the market too drastically right now.  Only thing I can imagine is that there will be more software/games coming out for both platforms since the arch isn't that different now.


Hey, wait a minute... every piece of hardware is essentially obsolete once it hits the shelves: pc, mac, dvd player, dish washer... Mac is only more obvious because they're a single company with a relatively small product line.

> 9 out of 10 people buy Apples because it's "stylish."

I only know these 1 out of 10 who buy apple for other reasons, could you

Typically an opinion of someone who never used it...

Whenever I come across Windows I get frustrated because simple things

are complicated. Just watch an average Windows user search a file...

Or ask how often they reinstalled windows.

about max on macintel