benniy

i've been having a struggle with some of my bpatchers and consider that i might

just not correctly understand them. i've saved several versions of a patch, having

changed stuff in the parent and also in its bpatchers.

some versions start using older bpatcher-versions; it all get's mixed up and there's

no real system behind it. even stranger: if i select a newer version of a bpatcher

(from inspector -> "patcher file"), the parent keeps the older version.

1) what is the effect of choosing to "embed patcher in parent"?

2) if i select "view containing project" and delete a patcher from the list,

it stays in the list, marked as "implicit". what is this?

3) why isn't it possible to replace a file in the this list? if i select a patcher

with the same name but a very different content, it keeps the old version.

i've been having a struggle with some of my bpatchers and consider that i might
just not correctly understand them. i've saved several versions of a patch, having
changed stuff in the parent and also in its bpatchers.

some versions start using older bpatcher-versions; it all get's mixed up and there's
no real system behind it. even stranger: if i select a newer version of a bpatcher
(from inspector -> "patcher file"), the parent keeps the older version.

a few questions:
1) what is the effect of choosing to "embed patcher in parent"?
2) if i select "view containing project" and delete a patcher from the list,
it stays in the list, marked as "implicit". what is this?
3) why isn't it possible to replace a file in the this list? if i select a patcher
with the same name but a very different content, it keeps the old version.

abstractions-bpatchers-keep-on-loading-wrong-versions

1.) thats just a personal opinion, but embedding stuff is pretty useless.

3.) a patcher with the same name? you dont use patchers with the same name! NEVER!

objects are found at startup and load in a partially unpredictable, partially alphabetical order. if you want to update or change "mysubpatcher" while keeping the old version, you have to move the old version 

3.) a patcher with the same name? you dont use patchers with the same name! NEVER!
objects are found at startup and load in a partially unpredictable, partially alphabetical order. if you want to update or change "mysubpatcher" while keeping the old version, you have to move the old version out of the max search path or rename it.


1) i've just now found that embedding patchers *can* be useful.

scenario: a parent patcher (0) has multiple instances of a bpatcher (1). these bpatchers (1) have another bpatcher (2) inside.

it makes sense to embed the last bpatcher (2) in its parent (1). (or better to say – it usually doesn't make sense not to do it in such a scenario)

3) this really frustrated me. the problem was, i was working on a project that used several abstractions. i saved the project

with new filenames (project v01, project v02 ...). ocasionally, i froze the project to include all external files into it.

when working on a frozen project, i suspected it would use its own files when unfreezing. this though does not (always?)

appear to be the case, when previous projects use the same abstraction filename.. chaotic – never mind.. just had to do a ton

just briefly
1) i've just now found that embedding patchers *can* be useful.
scenario: a parent patcher (0) has multiple instances of a bpatcher (1). these bpatchers (1) have another bpatcher (2) inside.
it makes sense to embed the last bpatcher (2) in its parent (1). (or better to say – it usually doesn't make sense not to do it in such a scenario)

3) this really frustrated me. the problem was, i was working on a project that used several abstractions. i saved the project
with new filenames (project v01, project v02 ...). ocasionally, i froze the project to include all external files into it.
when working on a frozen project, i suspected it would use its own files when unfreezing. this though does not (always?)
appear to be the case, when previous projects use the same abstraction filename.. chaotic – never mind.. just had to do a ton
of cleaning up.


I don't understand the logic behind your argument for embedding bpatchers. Why does it make sense to embed bpatchers just because they're nested? You're still going to have the same problem if you need to change one.

you should only do this with patchers that are finalized.

the only benefit i've seen it have is when you distribute amongst a community or team that uses many different versions of the same embedded patch, then you can create a parent-app/patch that is frozen to work specifically according to the way you originally designed that specific version of the embedded patch without confusing others who have something similarly named on their machine(helps with file-management once things are finalized... but then again, who cares about 'files' these days).

'Projects' are a separate issue(they seem to still be somewhat in development).

you should only do this with patchers that are finalized.
the only benefit i've seen it have is when you distribute amongst a community or team that uses many different versions of the same embedded patch, then you can create a parent-app/patch that is frozen to work specifically according to the way you originally designed that specific version of the embedded patch without confusing others who have something similarly named on their machine(helps with file-management once things are finalized... but then again, who cares about 'files' these days).

'Projects' are a separate issue(they seem to still be somewhat in development).


So you should use emebdded patchers in case others used embedded patchers?

I think in that situation I'd much rather use a control mechanism such as putting them all in a folder with a date and having that folder on the search path.

Other than really trivial stuff, I don't think I've ever met a patcher that was finalized

My words were at @BENNNZZZ. And they speak more about a case(i was describing, in general terms, monome community uses and some companies i've worked for) where it was, in fact, found useful, if you don't jump to such quick conclusions and try to paint other peoples words into something they are not as you've done here. (but no worries, i find your pride posted everywhere on these forums makes for some good light entertainment ;D)

And in the vein of light entertainment, I find the parts of the post that you wrote and then apparently edited out even more entertaining (see below - I don't think they should be lost to the world).

As Arthur Hailey (look him up) once put it so succinctly....mistrust the obvious!

By the way, just out of curiosity --- to which of my uhmmm, cheesy old-timer (grin) bands were you referring?

My words were at @BENNNZZZ. And they are correct if you don't jump to such quick and stupid conclusions as you are here.

but since you're getting up all in my face, i'll go ahead and give you it right back:

I don’t think I’ve ever met a patcher that was finalized

...but... you don't really use max for anything beyond a really boring VST organization system(you seem really bad at doing anything interesting with DSP in particular) which is a bit like buying a Ferrari just so you can use the radio... i'm not sure your way of doing things is what anyone else would ever want, y'know: most of us have got dreams beyond playing in cheesy old-timer cover-bands the rest of our lives ;)

And in the vein of light entertainment, I find the parts of the post that you wrote and then apparently edited out even more entertaining (see below - I don't think they should be lost to the world). 

-------------
Raja_The_Resident_Asswipe wrote:

but since you're getting up all in my face, i'll go ahead and give you it right back:
I don’t think I’ve ever met a patcher that was finalized

...but... you don't really use max for anything beyond a really boring VST organization system(you seem really bad at doing anything interesting with DSP in particular) which is a bit like buying a Ferrari just so you can use the radio... i'm not sure your way of doing things is what anyone else would ever want, y'know: most of us have got dreams beyond playing in cheesy old-timer cover-bands the rest of our lives ;)


(i definitely like to chameleon other people's words, attitudes and pride here... but it's become a habit, so i'm trying to learn to edit quicker ;D)

edit: you would've loved my earlier edits, too, i talked more about why i think most folks here ended up ignoring your thread about the VST system you wanted beta tested.

to which of my uhmmm, cheesy old-timer (grin) bands were you referring?

i like the peter-gabriel one better(your lead-singer there in particular's got some pipes), but the pink-floyd one is just... um... kinda sad(especially because your own band mates seem to push you into the far back corner of the stage), and for all that gear and knowledge, it's strange to only end up emulating other people's sounds from years ago.

but ya, i'm strangely engaged by your fraternity-jock/douchebaggy style of interaction with me, it's like Christopher Walken said in the movie, "The Deer Hunter":

I like to starve myself: Helps keep the fear up!

^HAHA! you caught me :)
(i definitely like to chameleon other people's words, attitudes and pride here... but it's become a habit, so i'm trying to learn to edit quicker ;D)

^that would apply more to you in this thread:

i posted no argument with your original comments to begin with. all the while i was initially just trying to give an example directly to bennnzzz which was applicable(i even addressed him directly, tagging his name, so as not to get in the middle of yours and roman's socratic albeit condescending line of questions to him). and my last post was even solicited by a question on your part. each time you made sure to engage me directly first for some reason(even though, you know in your heart, of all the folks on these forums, we two in particular, get along the least ;D).

The .jpg particularly says something i wouldn't have expected to come from you:

If you're saying i've hurt you, that was unexpected. Sorry.

(how bout we both turn our 'notifications off' now, eh? ;D)

^that would apply more to you in this thread:
i posted no argument with your original comments to begin with. all the while i was initially just trying to give an example directly to bennnzzz which was applicable(i even addressed him directly, tagging his name, so as not to get in the middle of yours and roman's socratic albeit condescending line of questions to him). and my last post was even solicited by a question on your part. each time you made sure to engage me directly first for some reason(even though, you know in your heart, of all the folks on these forums, we two in particular, get along the least ;D).

BUT I NOTICE SOMETHING!
The .jpg particularly says something i wouldn't have expected to come from you:

(how bout we both turn our 'notifications off' now, eh? ;D)


abstractions / bpatchers keep on loading wrong versions