Forums > MaxMSP

Ambi.decode~ (Ambisonic playback)help

October 17, 2008 | 2:48 pm

Hi,
I am currently attempting .amb file playback using Graham Wakefield’s Ambi.decode external. I am using this test file as my source http://www.ambisonia.com/Members/ajh/ambisonicfile.2007-05-29.7251031563

I am opening the test file in audacity which splits the file into 4 mono tracks (which I assume are wxyz). I am then feeding these individual tracks into Ambi.decode~ for playback. Ambi decode is set with the arguments 3d 1st Default 4 as the .amb file is in 1st order 3D. However on playback the sounds don’t appear in the correct positions. I am currently playing back on a quad setup. When using ambiencode with decode a mono input everything is positioned as it should be. Am I right in thinking I should be able to feed w x y z into ambi decode and get correct ambisonic playback? If so does anyone know what could be causing my problem?

Thanks for any help in advance.

Mike. mandrews04@qub.ac.uk


October 17, 2008 | 6:50 pm

Hi

You’re absolutely right, you should be able to play back w x y z
channels into an [ambi.decode~ 3d 1st] for ambsionic playback, but
there’s a few possible gotchas: Ambisonics is a theory in which a
variety of conventions have been used and no particular set is
standard (though there has been quite a lot of activity on the
Sursound list recently to tackle this issue, see [1]; note that my
externals and the ICST ones are predate and do not currently follow
this standard).

Besides the 2d/3d and 1st, 2nd etc. order (or in the proposed new
terminology, degree), there are multiple ‘flavors’ or coefficients
that may or may not be assumed to apply to the ambisonic domain
signals, various different sequences in which the domain signals are
arranged in the domain (not necessarily intuitive, again see [1]
which suggests W Y Z X for example) The channel order is easy to
remedy, if it doesn’t match, by patch cabling (The inlet/outlet
assist messages (mouse over -> status bar) shows the channel names in
all the ambi. objects). The importance channel coefficients however
is often overlooked.

Another standards gotcha that applies to both my externals and the
ICST ones also is the use of left-hand rule for axes (i.e. azimuth
90′ is to the right, whereas much ambisonic software uses right-hand
rule). If your spatial image is flipped in the Y axis, it can be
remedied by reversing the sign of your speaker configuration azimuth
coordinates (or at 1st order, flipping the sign of the Y signal).

I don’t know what conventions were used in this test file, it is not
documented. Could you describe the ‘unexpected’ results?

Graham

[1] http://ambisonics.ch/standards/

On Oct 17, 2008, at 7:49 AM, Mike Andrews wrote:

>
> Hi,
> I am currently attempting .amb file playback using Graham
> Wakefield’s Ambi.decode external. I am using this test file as my
> source http://www.ambisonia.com/Members/ajh/ambisonicfile.
> 2007-05-29.7251031563
>
> I am opening the test file in audacity which splits the file into 4
> mono tracks (which I assume are wxyz). I am then feeding these
> individual tracks into Ambi.decode~ for playback. Ambi decode is
> set with the arguments 3d 1st Default 4 as the .amb file is in 1st
> order 3D. However on playback the sounds don’t appear in the
> correct positions. I am currently playing back on a quad setup.
> When using ambiencode with decode a mono input everything is
> positioned as it should be. Am I right in thinking I should be able
> to feed w x y z into ambi decode and get correct ambisonic
> playback? If so does anyone know what could be causing my problem?
>
> Thanks for any help in advance.
>
> Mike. mandrews04@qub.ac.uk
>
>

Be seeing you

grrr waaa
http://www.grahamwakefield.net


October 17, 2008 | 8:56 pm

Hi Graham I appreciate the reply,
The results seem to be pretty much random with the only constant being the centre front position. Unfortunately I will not have access to the system until tomorrow so I can not check in more detail until then. I have also tried patch cable re-ordering and have tried all possible combinations but with no luck. I have also tried this file http://www.ambisonia.com/Members/michael/ambisonicfile.2008-07-05.2994956247 and am having similar problems. When you say "If your spatial image is flipped in the Y axis, it can be
remedied by reversing the sign of your speaker configuration azimuth
coordinates (or at 1st order, flipping the sign of the Y signal)." How would I do this? Do you mean by reversing the polarity of the Y axis? The 8 position .amb file I am trying to use was created using a perl script (http://mchapman.com/amb/soft/positions/) with ambisuite so I don’t know if that gives any clue on the conventions used?
Thanks again, Mike.


October 18, 2008 | 4:48 am

Quote: lists@grahamwakefield wrote on Fri, 17 October 2008 12:50
—————————————————-
> Hi
>
> You’re absolutely right, you should be able to play back w x y z
> channels into an [ambi.decode~ 3d 1st] for ambsionic playback, but
> there’s a few possible gotchas: Ambisonics is a theory in which a
> variety of conventions have been used and no particular set is
> standard (though there has been quite a lot of activity on the
> Sursound list recently to tackle this issue, see [1];

> [1] http://ambisonics.ch/standards/

No, the situation on standards is not nearly as confused
as you suggest. All the files on Ambisonia.com are in
the ".amb" standard. This is fairly old and is very
stable. The details of the standard can be found at:

http://www.ambisonia.com/Members/mleese/file-format-for-b-format/

This document contains links to pictures and stuff which
should help.

The standard in your ref [1] is a new standard under
development, so is not yet stable. Unlike ".amb", the
new one will be able to go above third-order (16 channels).
But it is not finished yet, so ignore it.

Unfortunately, I have never used plug-in decoders, so
can’t really help the original poster other than to
point them at the ".amb" standard document.

Regards,
Martin


October 19, 2008 | 8:08 pm

On Oct 17, 2008, at 9:48 PM, Martin Leese wrote:

> No, the situation on standards is not nearly as confused
> as you suggest. All the files on Ambisonia.com are in
> the ".amb" standard. This is fairly old and is very
> stable. The details of the standard can be found at:
> http://www.ambisonia.com/Members/mleese/file-format-for-b-format/

Martin:

Sorry, I didn’t want to suggest that there was a lack of convention
in the .amb format, which as you say is clear and well established.
I was talking about the literature and implementations of ambisonics
in the wider community over the past decades, and the recent Sursound
discussions.

Alex:

Double-checking the .amb definition, the channel order and channel
weights for .amb B-format matches [ambi.decode~ 3d 1st] with no
modifications needed. That narrows the problem down to either axis
conventions (or speaker configuration mismatch in the decode~ vs. the
actual speaker layout used maybe?)

Flipping the sign of the Y (or any axis) at 1st order is a case of
placing a [*~ -1] in the signal path between your playback and your
ambi.decode~ inlet for that channel.

Unfortunately I don’t have a 3D speaker array to hand to test. I also
don’t have a torrent client on this machine to dl the .amb file for a
visual test. But here’s a patch – could you try this? I haven’t done
all 26 positions, I figured 14 was enough to catch whatever the
problem is. In fact, the first 6 should be enough to get that (L, R,
F, B, U, D): if L/R are backwards, flip the X channel, etc. If this
is working fine but yours is still sounding strange, maybe the
speaker locations are not well defined in your patch/system?

max v2;
#N vpatcher 395 170 1208 596;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 644 167 100 196617 flip axis Z;
#P comment 519 167 100 196617 flip axis Y;
#P comment 325 73 100 196617 your amb file here;
#P message 264 72 43 196617 open , 1;
#P user ezdac~ 194 143 238 176 0;
#P window linecount 3;
#P comment 640 335 13 196617 DRB;
#P user meter~ 628 276 641 372 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 600 276 613 372 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 572 276 585 372 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 544 276 557 372 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P comment 613 335 13 196617 DLB;
#P comment 585 335 13 196617 URB;
#P comment 557 335 13 196617 ULB;
#P comment 528 336 13 196617 DRF;
#P user meter~ 516 277 529 373 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 488 277 501 373 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 460 277 473 373 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 432 277 445 373 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P comment 501 336 13 196617 DLF;
#P comment 473 336 13 196617 URF;
#P comment 445 336 13 196617 ULF;
#P user umenu 405 184 43 196647 1 64 200 1;
#X add 1;
#X add -1;
#P user umenu 523 182 43 196647 1 64 198 1;
#X add 1;
#X add -1;
#P user umenu 646 182 43 196647 1 64 198 1;
#X add 1;
#X add -1;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 630 214 35 196617 *~ 1.;
#P newex 508 214 35 196617 *~ 1.;
#P newex 386 216 35 196617 *~ 1.;
#P newex 194 219 53 196617 r decoder;
#P window linecount 16;
#P message 45 130 142 196617 ; decoder speaker 0 -90 0 ; decoder
speaker 1 90 0 ; decoder speaker 2 0 0 ; decoder speaker 3 180 0 ;
decoder speaker 4 0 90 ; decoder speaker 5 0 -90 ; decoder speaker
6 -45 45 ; decoder speaker 7 45 45 ; decoder speaker 6 -45 -45 ;
decoder speaker 7 45 -45 ; decoder speaker 6 -135 45 ; decoder
speaker 7 135 45 ; decoder speaker 6 -135 -45 ; decoder speaker 7
135 -45 ; decoder dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 45 106 20 196617 t b;
#P comment 416 336 13 196617 D;
#P comment 388 336 13 196617 U;
#P comment 360 336 13 196617 B;
#P user meter~ 404 277 417 373 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 376 277 389 373 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 348 277 361 373 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 320 277 333 373 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 292 277 305 373 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 264 277 277 373 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P comment 333 336 13 196617 F;
#P comment 305 336 13 196617 R;
#P newex 264 249 377 196617 ambi.decode~ 3d 1st default 14;
#P comment 277 336 13 196617 L;
#N sfplay~ 4 120960 0 ;
#P newobj 264 108 498 196617 sfplay~ 4;
#P comment 399 167 100 196617 flip axis X;
#P window linecount 3;
#P comment 29 336 226 196617 the corresponding speaker layout to the
14 test directions indicated by the meter~ objects (26 was too much
for my fingers to type…);
#P fasten 42 0 16 0 269 97 50 97;
#P connect 16 0 17 0;
#P fasten 2 0 41 0 269 129 199 129;
#P fasten 2 0 41 1 269 129 233 129;
#P connect 42 0 2 0;
#P connect 2 0 4 0;
#P fasten 18 0 4 0 199 246 269 246;
#P connect 4 0 7 0;
#P connect 4 1 8 0;
#P connect 4 2 9 0;
#P connect 4 3 10 0;
#P connect 4 4 11 0;
#P connect 2 1 19 0;
#P connect 19 0 4 1;
#P connect 4 5 12 0;
#P connect 24 1 19 1;
#P connect 4 6 28 0;
#P connect 4 7 29 0;
#P connect 4 8 30 0;
#P connect 2 2 20 0;
#P connect 20 0 4 2;
#P connect 4 9 31 0;
#P connect 23 1 20 1;
#P connect 4 10 36 0;
#P connect 4 11 37 0;
#P connect 4 12 38 0;
#P connect 4 13 39 0;
#P connect 2 3 21 0;
#P connect 21 0 4 3;
#P connect 22 1 21 1;
#P pop;


October 20, 2008 | 3:05 pm

Hi Graham,
Thanks for taking the time to create that patch. I loaded the sound file and played it while observing the meter bars. The meter bars do not correspond to the directions for example left- back comes through each output equally. Front however on its own seems to be correct. I have also tried inverting the connections but I am still not sucessful. I modified that patch in an attempt to playback correctly on my 4 speaker set up. The speaker definitions I have used are as below. Is this correct for a 4 speaker horizontal set up?

;
decoder speaker 0 -45 0;
decoder speaker 1 45 0;
decoder speaker 2 135 0;
decoder speaker 3 -135 0;
decoder dump;


October 20, 2008 | 8:10 pm

Quote: Mikelib wrote on Mon, 20 October 2008 09:05
—————————————————-
> Hi Graham,
> Thanks for taking the time to create that patch. I loaded the sound file and played it while observing the meter bars. The meter bars do not correspond to the directions for example left- back comes through each output equally. Front however on its own seems to be correct.

—————————————————-

In Ambisonics, all speakers cooperate to localise a sound.
So, for example, while the speakers on the left push,
those on the right pull. Given this, looking at meters
is of limited use.


October 20, 2008 | 9:40 pm

Hi Martin,
I understand this concept but surely a sound coming from 45 left for example with show a slightly higher reading on the meter of the corresponding speaker?


October 21, 2008 | 1:49 am

Martin is quite correct that all speakers contribute to the
construction of the sound field, and meters are thus not a very
helpful way to examine the output. In the patch below you can try out
a few cardinal directions and see what the meters show. Notice that
all channels are active (almost) all of the time, and that although
L, R, U, D, B, F all give helpful results for all the example
positions, the more complex speaker positions such as ULF are often
counter-intuitive. (This, amongst many other reasons, is why an
irregular speaker layout can totally corrupt the spatial image!) Then
change the decoding flavors (default, in-phase, etc.) and see how the
signals change again…

max v2;
#N vpatcher 15 44 805 801;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 593 69 48 196617 loadbang;
#P user ezdac~ 662 75 706 108 0;
#P window linecount 16;
#P message 593 128 142 196617 ; decoder speaker 0 -90 0 ; decoder
speaker 1 90 0 ; decoder speaker 2 0 0 ; decoder speaker 3 180 0 ;
decoder speaker 4 0 90 ; decoder speaker 5 0 -90 ; decoder speaker
6 -45 45 ; decoder speaker 7 45 45 ; decoder speaker 6 -45 -45 ;
decoder speaker 7 45 -45 ; decoder speaker 6 -135 45 ; decoder
speaker 7 135 45 ; decoder speaker 6 -135 -45 ; decoder speaker 7
135 -45 ; decoder dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 593 104 20 196617 t b;
#P user umenu 506 488 67 196647 1 64 504 1;
#X add none;
#X add default;
#X add in-phase;
#X add max-rE;
#P comment 96 706 375 196617 Ambisonics is not as intuitive as VBAP.;
#P window linecount 4;
#P message 430 305 108 196617 ; test azimuth 0 135. ; test
elevation 0 -45. ; test dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 430 290 100 196617 DRB:;
#P window linecount 4;
#P message 316 305 108 196617 ; test azimuth 0 -135. ; test
elevation 0 -45. ; test dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 316 290 100 196617 DLB:;
#P window linecount 4;
#P message 209 305 103 196617 ; test azimuth 0 135. ; test
elevation 0 45. ; test dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 209 290 100 196617 URB:;
#P window linecount 4;
#P message 95 305 108 196617 ; test azimuth 0 -135. ; test
elevation 0 45. ; test dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 95 290 100 196617 ULB:;
#P window linecount 4;
#P message 430 229 108 196617 ; test azimuth 0 45. ; test elevation
0 -45. ; test dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 430 214 100 196617 DRF:;
#P window linecount 4;
#P message 316 229 108 196617 ; test azimuth 0 -45. ; test
elevation 0 -45. ; test dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 316 214 100 196617 DLF:;
#P window linecount 4;
#P message 209 229 103 196617 ; test azimuth 0 45. ; test elevation
0 45. ; test dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 209 214 100 196617 URF:;
#P window linecount 4;
#P message 95 229 103 196617 ; test azimuth 0 -45. ; test elevation
0 45. ; test dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 95 214 100 196617 ULF:;
#P window linecount 4;
#P message 209 148 108 196617 ; test azimuth 0 0. ; test elevation
0 -90. ; test dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 209 133 100 196617 down:;
#P window linecount 4;
#P message 95 148 103 196617 ; test azimuth 0 0. ; test elevation 0
90. ; test dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 95 133 100 196617 up:;
#P window linecount 4;
#P message 430 72 103 196617 ; test azimuth 0 180. ; test elevation
0 0. ; test dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 430 57 100 196617 back:;
#P window linecount 4;
#P message 316 72 97 196617 ; test azimuth 0 0. ; test elevation 0
0. ; test dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 316 57 100 196617 front:;
#P window linecount 4;
#P message 209 72 97 196617 ; test azimuth 0 90. ; test elevation 0
0. ; test dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 209 57 100 196617 right:;
#P newex 139 375 36 196617 r test;
#P window linecount 4;
#P message 95 72 102 196617 ; test azimuth 0 -90. ; test elevation
0 0. ; test dump ;;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 95 375 39 196617 noise~;
#P user meter~ 95 553 108 649 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P comment 475 443 100 196617 flip axis Z;
#P comment 350 443 100 196617 flip axis Y;
#P window linecount 3;
#P comment 459 652 13 196617 DRB;
#P user meter~ 459 552 472 648 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 431 552 444 648 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 403 552 416 648 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 375 552 388 648 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P comment 432 652 13 196617 DLB;
#P comment 404 652 13 196617 URB;
#P comment 376 652 13 196617 ULB;
#P comment 347 653 13 196617 DRF;
#P user meter~ 347 553 360 649 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 319 553 332 649 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 291 553 304 649 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 263 553 276 649 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P comment 320 653 13 196617 DLF;
#P comment 292 653 13 196617 URF;
#P comment 264 653 13 196617 ULF;
#P user umenu 236 460 43 196647 1 64 476 1;
#X add 1;
#X add -1;
#P user umenu 354 458 43 196647 1 64 474 1;
#X add 1;
#X add -1;
#P user umenu 477 458 43 196647 1 64 474 1;
#X add 1;
#X add -1;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 461 490 35 196617 *~ 1.;
#P newex 339 490 35 196617 *~ 1.;
#P newex 217 492 35 196617 *~ 1.;
#P newex 25 495 53 196617 r decoder;
#P comment 235 653 13 196617 D;
#P comment 207 653 13 196617 U;
#P comment 179 653 13 196617 B;
#P user meter~ 235 553 248 649 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 207 553 220 649 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 179 553 192 649 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 151 553 164 649 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P user meter~ 123 553 136 649 50 0 168 0 103 103 103 255 153 0 255 0
0 217 217 0 153 186 0 12 3 3 3 3;
#P comment 152 653 13 196617 F;
#P comment 124 653 13 196617 R;
#P newex 95 525 376 196617 ambi.decode~ 3d 1st default 14;
#P comment 96 653 13 196617 L;
#P newex 95 405 378 196617 ambi.encoden~ 3d 1st degrees 1;
#P comment 230 443 100 196617 flip axis X;
#P comment 95 57 100 196617 left:;
#P connect 41 0 2 0;
#P fasten 43 0 2 0 144 398 100 398;
#P fasten 15 0 4 0 30 522 100 522;
#P connect 2 0 4 0;
#P fasten 71 1 4 0 568 514 100 514;
#P connect 4 0 40 0;
#P connect 4 1 7 0;
#P connect 4 2 8 0;
#P connect 4 3 9 0;
#P connect 4 4 10 0;
#P connect 2 1 16 0;
#P connect 16 0 4 1;
#P connect 4 5 11 0;
#P connect 21 1 16 1;
#P connect 4 6 25 0;
#P connect 4 7 26 0;
#P connect 4 8 27 0;
#P connect 2 2 17 0;
#P connect 17 0 4 2;
#P connect 4 9 28 0;
#P connect 20 1 17 1;
#P connect 4 10 33 0;
#P connect 4 11 34 0;
#P connect 4 12 35 0;
#P connect 4 13 36 0;
#P connect 2 3 18 0;
#P connect 18 0 4 3;
#P connect 19 1 18 1;
#P connect 75 0 72 0;
#P connect 72 0 73 0;
#P pop;


October 21, 2008 | 1:51 am

Mike, if your speaker layout is horizontal only, then decoding a 3D
encoded signal stream simply cannot reproduce positions that
incorporate vertical components!

BTW, a [ambi.decode~ 2d 1st 4] object will choose exactly those
speaker locations as a default.

On Oct 20, 2008, at 8:05 AM, Mike Andrews wrote:

> I modified that patch in an attempt to playback correctly on my 4
> speaker set up. The speaker definitions I have used are as below.
> Is this correct for a 4 speaker horizontal set up?
>
> ;
> decoder speaker 0 -45 0;
> decoder speaker 1 45 0;
> decoder speaker 2 135 0;
> decoder speaker 3 -135 0;
> decoder dump;


October 21, 2008 | 2:19 am

Thanks again Graham. That patch is very helpful in explaining Martin’s point. Does this mean that the eight position file http://www.ambisonia.com/Members/ajh/ambisonicfile.2007-05-29.7251031563 will not position correctly when played back on a 2d system?, even though the .amb file contains only 2d directional announcements (Front, Right-Front, Right, Right-Back, Back, Left-Back, Left, Left-Front.)


October 21, 2008 | 4:49 pm

That one should work on your system, as it is purely horizontal (you
should be able to verify that the Z channel is empty).

On Oct 20, 2008, at 7:19 PM, Mike Andrews wrote:

>
> Thanks again Graham. That patch is very helpful in explaining
> Martin’s point. Does this mean that the eight position file http://
> http://www.ambisonia.com/Members/ajh/ambisonicfile.2007-05-29.7251031563
> will not position correctly when played back on a 2d system?, even
> though the .amb file contains only 2d directional announcements
> (Front, Right-Front, Right, Right-Back, Back, Left-Back, Left, Left-
> Front.)

Be seeing you

grrr waaa
http://www.grahamwakefield.net


October 21, 2008 | 7:13 pm

Quote: lists@grahamwakefield wrote on Tue, 21 October 2008 10:49
—————————————————-
> That one should work on your system, as it is purely horizontal (you
> should be able to verify that the Z channel is empty).

—————————————————-

In a perfect world it would be empty. If the
announcements were recorded with a soundfield mic
(instead of being recorded in mono and panned to
the different directions) then the Z-channel will
contain ambiance. I haven’t listened to the file,
and its description does not make clear how it was
created.

Regards,
Martin


October 22, 2008 | 2:16 pm

Hi Guys,
I have now got this working. The problems was the fault of audacity and the way it bounces audio files. After I reordered them and set each one to mono the decoder now plays perfectly. The y axis also needed to be flipped. Thanks for all your help Graham and also for creating these excellent externals. Thanks also to Martin for his help.

Mike.


November 9, 2008 | 3:12 am

Hey folks,
Im a complete newbie to the world of ambisonics and Im fairly new to max aswell. I figure this would be a good thread to ask this question as you all seem quite knowledgable on both. Im trying to set up the ICST externals on my system but make doesnt seem to be able to locate them. Ive placed the folders/content in the locations instructed but max cant see them whenever I try place them into a patch a max message stes that the object could not be found. Any suggestion or even better solutions would be much appreciated.

Max 4.5
xp sp2


November 9, 2008 | 9:31 am

on the off chance that this might be easy to fix:
have you restarted Max since placing the objects in the searchpath?
max 4.5 rebuilds the searchpatch only at startup…

/*j


November 9, 2008 | 11:03 am

hope this isn’t silly, but isn’t Ambisonics only for max 4.6.3 ?

On 9 Nov 2008, at 09:31, jasch wrote:

> on the off chance that this might be easy to fix:
> have you restarted Max since placing the objects in the searchpath?
> max 4.5 rebuilds the searchpatch only at startup…
>
> /*j


November 9, 2008 | 12:38 pm

Ambisonics isn’t just for Max 4.6.x, on the contrary:

http://www.ambisonia.com
http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/mustech/3d_audio/welcome.html

http://www.google.ch/search?q=Ambisonics

The ICST Ambisonics MSP objects work fine under Max5.
It’s the [ambimonitor] external that’s missing, since all GUI-objects
have to be rewritten for Max 5.
We’re still wainting for the release of the new SDK to complete the
task.

Thanks for your patience.

/*j

And Michael _is_ stating that he’s using max 4.5 on XP SP2…

> hope this isn’t silly, but isn’t Ambisonics only for max 4.6.3 ?


November 9, 2008 | 1:28 pm

http://www.icst.net/downloads/

yes, its also 4.5x

sorry about that.

On 9 Nov 2008, at 12:38, jasch wrote:

> Ambisonics isn’t just for Max 4.6.x, on the contrary:
>
> http://www.ambisonia.com
> http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/mustech/3d_audio/welcome.html
> http://www.google.ch/search?q=Ambisonics
>
> The ICST Ambisonics MSP objects work fine under Max5.
> It’s the [ambimonitor] external that’s missing, since all GUI-
> objects have to be rewritten for Max 5.
> We’re still wainting for the release of the new SDK to complete the
> task.
>
> Thanks for your patience.
>
> /*j
>
> And Michael _is_ stating that he’s using max 4.5 on XP SP2…
>
>> hope this isn’t silly, but isn’t Ambisonics only for max 4.6.3 ?
>


November 9, 2008 | 2:13 pm

Ok so Ive gotten max to recognise the externals(by taking them out of their own folder and placing straight into the externals folder) but a new problem has arisen. Whenever i try place the ambimonitor object into a patch max closes! the same thing happens when I try access the help files for ambimonitor and ambicontrol. The encode/decode objects and their help files are fine.

Thanks so much for your replies so far!

Michael


November 9, 2008 | 3:18 pm

in that case you’re out of luck. we’ve never been able to pinpoint and
fix the problem the ambimonitor exhibited on a number of windows
machines. now our coding resources are commited to the max 5 port.

sorry for the bad news

/*j

> Whenever i try place the ambimonitor object into a patch max closes!


November 9, 2008 | 8:23 pm

Bad news yeah but at least the mystery is solved, thanks a lot. Im getting a new macbook pro soon n have a couple questions: do you think this problem will occur with xp through bootcamp on that machine? If so is it possible to get max 4.5 or is v5 the only possibility? The reason im asking is that Im working on a project for my masters degree and need to get working with these plugins asap.

Thanks again for your help so far.

Michael


November 9, 2008 | 8:58 pm

fwiw: the [ambimonitor] external was ported to and works in Max 4.5.x/
4.6.x under windows XP / bootcamp on a range of our intel macs
including my MBP.

/*j


November 10, 2008 | 4:17 pm

Is there a mailing list I can sign up to so as to receive a message as soon as soon as all the ambisonic objects are ported to max5? As i wish to eventually use max 5 under osx.


November 10, 2008 | 5:59 pm

watch this space, we’ll announce it here.

/*j

> Is there a mailing list I can sign up to so as to receive a message
> as soon as soon as all the ambisonic objects are ported to max5? As
> i wish to eventually use max 5 under osx.


November 19, 2008 | 6:13 pm

Hey Jasch,
Im trying to use ambimonitor in xp with bootcamp. Same version 4.5 n xp pro sp2. I get the following error -2095 creating offscreen. And some really weird stuff happens graphicwise. Any ideas?


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