[Ann] New Pitch & Time Stretching object – elastic~

Jul 14, 2008 at 2:36pm

[Ann] New Pitch & Time Stretching object – elastic~

We’re pleased to announce the release of elastic~ today! A pitch-shifting time-stretching looping Max object built around the same algorithm used by Cubase, Ableton, and Kontakt.

elastic~ works very much like the established groove~ object found in the standard MaxMSP library but with two totally independent controls: Pitch and Speed. The algorithm used is designed specifically for ‘musical’ material, allowing a natural sounding pitch-shift up to an octave above and below the original pitch of your sample, whilst playing back at up to double or half speed.

If you want to see the sort of thing possible with elastic~ have a look at the video demo at http://www.elasticmax.co.uk/#demo

Thanks,
Simon Adcock & Joe Jarlett
http://www.elasticmax.co.uk

#38878
Jul 14, 2008 at 2:54pm

Congratulations, this looks and sounds very nice! (at least from the demo)

So, this uses the Zplane algorithm? And how does it perform with
different material (e.g. rhythmic/beats vs. “musical”)?

Dan

#136029
Jul 14, 2008 at 3:11pm

Do the pitch/time inlets accept signals?

#136030
Jul 14, 2008 at 3:24pm

#136031
Jul 14, 2008 at 3:29pm

#136032
Jul 14, 2008 at 4:04pm

well done!! it sounds fantastic from the demo clip!
it will be amazing if there were a phasor~ driven version too (like wave~ or play~)
we want to hear more!
ps. i think an object like this should be in msp distribution

#136033
Jul 14, 2008 at 4:28pm

Would it be possible to post some wave files of original and
processed samples? There have been many solutions for time/pitch
shifting. Having samples to compare is the only way to tell
which is better.

#136034
Jul 14, 2008 at 4:38pm

> There have been many solutions for time/pitch
> shifting. Having samples to compare is the only way to tell
> which is better.

Very good suggestion – at two tenners a pop, a nice
range of inputs and outputs for comparison would go
a long way toward making the sale, even though I
realise that it’s probably a bit tough to figure out
what the sample materials should *be.*

A final question: pitch/time doesn’t take signals, but
the loop point inlets *do?*

#136035
Jul 14, 2008 at 4:39pm

Dan Nigrin skrev:
> Also – what is the licensing model; if one purchases the external from
> you, are we free in turn to make commercial applications using it?
yeah, “non-commercial ‘personal’ license” doesn’t seem to fit a lot of
people… I mean, gigging with a patch made with this would in a lot of
cases qualify as “commercial use”. And building one-off patches for
clients is certainly also a commercial use, but a great deal of us do
that all the time – certainly the max users who are willing to pay extra
for more objects, non?

Simon and Joe, if there’s anything more specific you can tell us
regarding the license it would be very much appreciated.

Andreas.

#136036
Jul 14, 2008 at 4:41pm

I was wondering if you could tell me what your computer specs are and then what the CPU usage of a single elastic~ object is(from Max/MSP’s DSP window) at 48k sample-rate and also one at 96k sample-rate. (It would be important to know this before considering buying as, it’s a big difference in application if it only uses 5% compared to say 10% CPU).

I would also like to know the licensing model(as Dan inquired about).

Looks pretty good! Thanks for demonstrating!

>Dan wrote:
>Also – what is the licensing model; if one purchases the external
>from you, are we free in turn to make commercial applications >using it?

#136037
Jul 14, 2008 at 5:18pm

I would like to add that I don’t mind taking a pretty significant cpu hit in ‘signal rate mode’. Especially if it worked similarly to play~ or wave~.

The object look really cool though!

#136038
Jul 14, 2008 at 5:52pm

Whoops! Looks like both of my questions(CPU-usage and licensing model) are answered on the “Details” page of the site:

http://www.elasticmax.co.uk/details.html

#136039
Jul 14, 2008 at 5:59pm

At 11:52 AM -0600 7/14/08, raja wrote:
>Whoops! Looks like both of my questions(CPU-usage and licensing
>model) are answered on the “Details” page of the site:
>
>http://www.elasticmax.co.uk/details.html

Thanks Raja, I missed that as well.

Dan

#136040
Jul 14, 2008 at 6:22pm

hi,

I would be interested into sound examples of veeeeeeeery strong stretched sounds — like almost “frozen”.

is this possible ?

thanks,
bd

#136041
Jul 14, 2008 at 7:55pm

#136042
Jul 14, 2008 at 8:15pm

#136043
Jul 14, 2008 at 9:31pm

Are there Max 4 versions of freeze-slide, freeze-tail and freeze-
denoiser?

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson

#136044
Jul 14, 2008 at 10:31pm

#136045
Jul 14, 2008 at 11:53pm

I got it.

It is really nice.

#136046
Jul 15, 2008 at 12:41am

max5 crashes if you accidentally move, while it’s playing, the loop
min/max out of range

On 15 Jul 2008, at 00:53, Dimitris Lambrianos wrote:

>
> I got it.
>
> It is really nice.
>
>
> –
> http://www.dimitrislambrianos.com/

#136047
Jul 15, 2008 at 10:14am

>>Very good suggestion – at two tenners a pop, a nice
range of inputs and outputs for comparison would go
a long way toward making the sale, even though I
realise that it’s probably a bit tough to figure out
what the sample materials should *be.*

I’ve uploaded a range of sound clips to http://www.elasticmax.co.uk/details let me know if you think I’ve missed any particular type of source material – could even email me a sound file if you like and I’ll add it.

>>A final question: pitch/time doesn’t take signals, but
the loop point inlets *do?*

Actually, no they don’t, but I can’t see there being a problem adding that, I’ll look in to it.

>>max5 crashes if you accidentally move, while it’s playing, the loop
min/max out of range

I can’t recreate this on either my PC or Mac, if you could submit a more detailed bug report to the elasticmax forum (www.elasticmax.co.uk/forum) or to support@elasticmax.co.uk I’ll look in to it straight away.

#136048
Jul 15, 2008 at 11:06am

>>Simon and Joe, if there’s anything more specific you can tell us
regarding the license it would be very much appreciated.

The license is a non-commercial ‘personal’ license. Meaning you are free to make patches for yourself (including gigging with them), but if you want to sell or distribute a patch (ie reselling Zplane’s algorithm) then we would discuss a commercial license with Zplane – which we are happy to do on a project by project basis. They’re a nice bunch of people, and Joe and I are certainly not interested in charging a prohibitive amount for a commercial license so I’m sure it wouldn’t be a problem. The full license terms are included in the download package, feel free to email us if you wish to see a copy before you purchase elastic~.

#136049
Jul 15, 2008 at 1:31pm

[livebuffer $1]

enable this if you want to record in to a buffer whilst playing it back through elastic~ at the same time

—-

What happen if I send [livebuffer 1] ?
Does it looks for the recording point to avoid clicks ?

I’d like to listen to an example of the click it produces when recording and reading at the same time, in a pretty short buffer, while stretching and/or pitch-shifting it.

This object seems to sound great by the way.

#136050
Jul 16, 2008 at 3:52pm

I downloaded this external, and have been playing with it.
I must say the sound quality is quite good. But I can not seem
to be able to set the speed to anything slower than 0.5,
Is this a limitation of the external?

#136051
Jul 16, 2008 at 7:18pm

elastic~ documentation:

extraoctave $1 – enable this to allow pitch-shifting and time-stretching between 0.25 – 4.0 instead of 0.5 – 2.0. The algorhythm is much less efficient at these extremes though so watch your cpu levels!

#136052
Jul 16, 2008 at 7:39pm

Are there Max 4 versions of freeze-slide, freeze-tail and freeze-
denoiser?

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson

#136053
Jul 16, 2008 at 8:09pm

#136054
Jul 16, 2008 at 8:33pm

I have Max 5 installed. I’ll reconstruct them in Max 4 and email them
to you in a few days.

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson

#136055
Jul 16, 2008 at 9:21pm

Hi,

Fredrik Olofsson posted recently a Super Collider class to convert a
patch from 5 to 4.

http://www.fredrikolofsson.com/pages/code-sc.html

You could try it…

#136056
Jul 16, 2008 at 10:55pm

i got it,
pro: it sounds really good
cons: too much cpu hungry here (ppc 1.67ghz),a patch with a couple of elastic~ playing in sync reach 32% cpu..difficult to think to build an efficient looper :(
i hope next versions improve performances
anyway a great object, well done!

#136057
Jul 16, 2008 at 11:57pm

I agree with Michele, the sound quality is great. But CPU
comsuption is not. On my Dell Inspiron Dual Core, each instance
of elastic~ costs me 6% CPU. That means a patch using 8 elastics
to loop audio is running close to 50%! It would be nice to see
this improved.

#136058
Jul 17, 2008 at 9:30am

#136059
Jul 17, 2008 at 10:14am

>> Wahooo, it looks great. But, not to be rude, it is bloody expensive for
one external.

Just for the record, we are unlikely to make any money from this! We’ve had to pay a LARGE upfront license fee to Zplane, plus a fixed amount per unit sold. The amount of hours and money Joe and I have put in to this (so far) means we will only break even if we sell hundreds of these objects. We just felt it would be an interesting and (hopefully) useful project.

>> pro: it sounds really good

good :-)

>> cons: too much cpu hungry

yeah, I guess that’s why the algorithm sounds good! ;-) I’m not sure what we can do to improve this as the algorithm is closed (we can’t edit it), perhaps some sort of caching system maybe? We will look in to it.

What I will say though, is that Joe and I have been working on our own algorithm that is specifically designed for Max so is much more efficient and flexible. If there’s enough demand (?) we’ll make an ‘extreme’ version of elastic~ using this algorithm, and maybe a wave~ or index~ version. It sounds good too, but for small changes in pitch / speed the original elastic~ is about as high quality as I’ve heard.

Simon

#136060
Jul 17, 2008 at 10:24am

Hey,
sorry, as the author of xsample i have no interest on being on your list of non-bloody-expensive externals.
When not even large-scale institutions with incredible facilities are able to hit the paypal button nothing but frustration and retraction can be the reaction.
Please consider the work that is related to developing, publishing and maintaining stable and performant externals.

gr~~~

>Wahooo, it looks great. But, not to be rude, it is bloody expensive for
>one external.

>20 GBP –> 25 EUR –> 40$

>When you think of Olaf Mathes or Jasch (just to name a few) releasing
>hundreds of objects for free, the brilliant rtcmix~ by Brad Garton, the
>csound~ by Matt Ingals, the xsample~ of Thomas Grill and so on… Or
>even the very low priced Litter Pros by Peter Castine, or the Tap Tools…

#136061
Jul 17, 2008 at 1:36pm

#136062
Jul 17, 2008 at 7:25pm

Are all these CPU reportings for 44.1k sampling-rate? Sorry, haven’t gotten up the nerve to buy it yet so I’m just asking out of curiosity since I prefer to run my patches at 48k(it seems the new standard these days). It does sound beautiful from the video.

Just a note to encourage patience from everyone, ZPlane does charge quite a lot for licensing so the price of elastic~ is relatively reasonable(relative to out-of-control capitalism all over the world < -That's not meant as an insult to anyone, it's just the way big-businesses are run to keep above competition that cause individual and independent smaller-businesses and developers to struggle just to keep afloat). I'm sure Simon and Co. are the least likely to have big-business-like intentions of making some sort of killing off of this object.

#136063
Jul 17, 2008 at 7:27pm

> yeah, I guess that’s why the algorithm sounds good! ;-) I’m not sure what we can do to improve this as the algorithm is closed (we can’t edit it), perhaps some sort of caching system maybe? We will look in to it.

i admit that for certain situations (like a multi instances looper..4,5 players) i will accept loss in quality for lower cpu usage..i’ve read on zplane site that they have different algorithm and for example Live uses elastique efficient for this reason..

> What I will say though, is that Joe and I have been working on our own algorithm that is specifically designed for Max so is much more efficient and flexible. If there’s enough demand (?) we’ll make an ‘extreme’ version of elastic~ using this algorithm, and maybe a wave~ or index~ version. It sounds good too, but for small changes in pitch / speed the original elastic~ is about as high quality as I’ve heard.

yes please!a wave~ version will be AMAZING!
mic
—————————————————-

#136064
Jul 17, 2008 at 7:32pm

> Wahooo, it looks great. But, not to be rude, it is bloody expensive for
> one external.
>
> 20 GBP –> 25 EUR –> 40$

well, i spend 25 euro and+ if i go out for some drinks! personally i’m quite happy to spend this money for a max object!! ;-)

#136065
Jul 17, 2008 at 8:48pm

Congratulations on this release and thank you for your effort. I sincerely hope you guys make some decent “change” out of it for yourself.

Regarding the demand:
I’d buy a bundle with the current version, the extreme version, the index version and the wave version of the object for 50 euros without a second thought. And probably for more too, depending on how efficient you manage to make it, other features, what the weather is like and whether or not I am wearing my funny hat.. :)

regards,
kjg

> What I will say though, is that Joe and I have been working on our own algorithm that is specifically designed for Max so is much more efficient and flexible. If there’s enough demand (?) we’ll make an ‘extreme’ version of elastic~ using this algorithm, and maybe a wave~ or index~ version. It sounds good too, but for small changes in pitch / speed the original elastic~ is about as high quality as I’ve heard.
>
> Simon

#136066
Jul 18, 2008 at 11:10am

> I’d buy a bundle with the current version, the extreme version, the index version and the wave version of the object for 50 euros without a second thought.

yess!!for sure ;-)

#136067
Oct 27, 2008 at 1:41pm

buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmppppppp

Hello Simon (and others)

Any news on the development of this external? Will there be any other incarnations like the “extreme” version or wave~ version? Is it still maintained?
If it is, I’ll buy it. But again, I’d rather spend more on a bundle…

Also, any maxers want to share their experiences with this externals especially regarding stability?

regards,
kjg

Quote: kjg wrote on Thu, 17 July 2008 22:48
—————————————————-
> Congratulations on this release and thank you for your effort. I sincerely hope you guys make some decent “change” out of it for yourself.
>
> Regarding the demand:
> I’d buy a bundle with the current version, the extreme version, the index version and the wave version of the object for 50 euros without a second thought. And probably for more too, depending on how efficient you manage to make it, other features, what the weather is like and whether or not I am wearing my funny hat.. :)
>
> regards,
> kjg
>
>
>
> > What I will say though, is that Joe and I have been working on our own algorithm that is specifically designed for Max so is much more efficient and flexible. If there’s enough demand (?) we’ll make an ‘extreme’ version of elastic~ using this algorithm, and maybe a wave~ or index~ version. It sounds good too, but for small changes in pitch / speed the original elastic~ is about as high quality as I’ve heard.
> >
> > Simon
>
>
>
—————————————————-

#136068
Oct 27, 2008 at 1:52pm

I use it quite a bit. It is very stable and the sound quality is
excellent.

#136069
Oct 27, 2008 at 8:08pm

Quote: jeanfrancois.charles wrote on Mon, 14 July 2008 16:15
—————————————————-.
>
> And the Phase Vocoder examples should allow you veeeeeeeeery strong
> stretched sounds. I used the technique for the first time in a piece called
> “Plex” where I play back a 10 second sound (recorded live) over 6 minutes.
> J-F.
>
—————————————————-

ooooo man! awesome :-D im going to give your objects a test run, JF, they sound very useful.

congrats on this object. a bit too pricey for me but i hope others use and enjoy it.

#136070
Oct 28, 2008 at 9:16am

so..any news about further developement?..as i previously said this object has an amazing sound quality but it can be too much cpu hungry if you need to use several..i would like to modify mlr (monome applications) that is basically a 7 ch looper..7 elastiq objects are actually too much for my g4 powerbook :/

#136071
Nov 4, 2008 at 11:00pm

i just realized that [elastic~] is not capable of playing backwards, a feature i learned to love with the [groove~] object.
i bought [elastic~] today, will evaluate it’s other features extensively tomorrow and post a report back here.

jrp

#136072

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