ANNOUNCEMENT: Community discussions will be web-only after 2/20/09.

Feb 14, 2009 at 4:33am

ANNOUNCEMENT: Community discussions will be web-only after 2/20/09.

ANNOUNCEMENT: Community discussions will be web-only after 2/20/09.

In a little over a week’s time, all of Cycling 74′s community
discussions will be web-only. On Friday, February 20, 2009, we will
be shutting off all of our public, two-way mailing lists. This includes:

dev@cycling74.com
java-dev@cycling74.com
javascript-dev@cycling74.com
jitter@cycling74.com
jitter-dev@cycling74.com
pluggo@cycling74.com
radial@cycling74.com

In order to participate in our discussions, you will need to use our
web forums, located at http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php

Additionally, ending our public mailing lists will correspond with an
upgrade to our forum software, which we hope will offer greater stability and
useful features, such as post editing.

We understand that some of you may be upset by this decision.
However, know that this decision was not something we took lightly,
nor was it hastily decided. The fact is, the mailing lists have had
a sell-by date since we started the forums. The reason they lasted so
long, and that we went through the trouble of tying them to our forums,
is because we realize how fond of them many of you are.

We have two primary reasons for ending the mailing lists, which basically
boil down to:

1. The difficulty of synchronizing the forums and mailing lists, from both
technical and cultural perspectives, has compromised the user experience.

2. The ease with which public mailing lists can be targeted by
spammers. With hundreds of thousands of messages per day being sent to
our mailing lists, fighting spam has become far too time-consuming and
expensive for us to support.

Some of you may say “well, I don’t want to browse the forums – I
like having the list come into my mailbox” and for those of you, have you
considered RSS? We have RSS feeds for each of the forums. Here are their URLs:

All topics: http://www.cycling74.com/forums/atom.php?mode=m&l=1&n=10&basic=1
Max/MSP: http://www.cycling74.com/forums/atom.php?frm=7&mode=m&l=1&n=10&basic=1
Jitter: http://www.cycling74.com/forums/atom.php?frm=8&mode=m&l=1&n=10&basic=1
Pluggo: http://www.cycling74.com/forums/atom.php?frm=9&mode=m&l=1&n=10&basic=1
radiaL: http://www.cycling74.com/forums/atom.php?frm=10&mode=m&l=1&n=10&basic=1
Dev: http://www.cycling74.com/forums/atom.php?frm=15&mode=m&l=1&n=10&basic=1
Javascript: http://www.cycling74.com/forums/atom.php?frm=17&mode=m&l=1&n=10&basic=1
Java: http://www.cycling74.com/forums/atom.php?frm=18&mode=m&l=1&n=10&basic=1

We also have a beta version of the RSS feeds that include a couple of minor
improvements, such as a link to reply to the post, which was implemented
specifically for folks switching to RSS from the mailing list. If you save
your login on the forums, this will allow you to immediately reply to the topic
at hand, rather than requiring you to login, navigate to the forum thread and
find the “post” link.

You can access the beta version by simply taking the above URL, and adding
substituting “atom-test.php” for “atom.php”.

Note, the feeds are quite customizable, if you haven’t taken a look at

http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=help_index&section=boardusage#syndicate

you’ll find that the customizable options include,

* pulling feeds not just for certain forums, as listed above, but also by
category & topic
* number of messages retrieved
* date cutoffs
* date ordering

It might take a period of initial adjustment, but I think many of you will
find that RSS feeds feel very similar to the mailing lists.

It’s also worth mentioning that, although we won’t officially support it, there
are RSS->email services out there that would be capable of pulling our feeds
into your mailboxes.

If you receive any of our mailing lists, your last e-mail will be
sent on February 20. This will contain a reminder that the mailing
lists will be ending. After that, we sincerely hope you’ll continue to
participate in our community either via our web site or RSS.

Thanks,

Wally

(Speaking on behalf of Cycling ’74)

#42293
Feb 14, 2009 at 7:47am

now thats one sad news for breakfast.

i could get very agitated over this, but instead just start feeling old.
sigh.

h
http://www.hans-w-koch.net

#151346
Feb 14, 2009 at 9:22am

+ 1!!!!!!!!!

p

ps: so i have to befriend with this rss feed stuff now…

hans w. koch wrote:
> now thats one sad news for breakfast.
>
> i could get very agitated over this, but instead just start feeling old.
> sigh.
>
> h
> http://www.hans-w-koch.net

http://pure.test.at
http://www.myspace.com/pvre
http://www.heartchamberorchestra.org

http://www.trblnc.org

#151347
Feb 14, 2009 at 9:42am

On 14 Feb 2009, at 07:47, hans w. koch wrote:

> i could get very agitated over this, but instead just start feeling
> old.

Indeed. As the person responsible for starting the Max mailing list
in 1992, I shall light a candle or something.

For Mac users, NetNewsWire is your friend.

– N.

nick rothwell — composition, systems, performance — http://
http://www.cassiel.com

#151348
Feb 14, 2009 at 11:09am

On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Nick Rothwell wrote:

> On 14 Feb 2009, at 07:47, hans w. koch wrote:
>
> i could get very agitated over this, but instead just start feeling old.
>>
>
> Indeed. As the person responsible for starting the Max mailing list in
> 1992, I shall light a candle or something.
>
> For Mac users, NetNewsWire is your friend.
>
>

Thanks for the tip. I just gave it a try.

One major problem I see is that all messages appear in chronological order
instead of grouped in threads like in a mail client. My brain doesn’t do
multi threading very well, and Re : Re : Re : Re is sooo 1993.

I guess there must be a script or some other way to achieve this. Any ideas?

Thijs

#151349
Feb 14, 2009 at 1:47pm

hmmmm
bah.

i have all max-list mails from 2002 until now on local disc
so i can search for help when i’m not able to be online….

will the rrs thingy save all messages on my disc or is it just a “viewer”

hope you guys at c74 make good backups of the forum …….

-mj

#151350
Feb 14, 2009 at 5:05pm

If you click on the (untitled) title bar above the posts column, you
can sort alphabetically. It doesn’t work that well once a thread has
enough RE:RE:RE:s in front of it though.

What I’ll miss is that I tend to keep (ie store locally) specific
posts that either have a useful patcher in them, or contain a solution
or idea that I can’t use right now, but that I think merits further
investigation. So that won’t be possible any more. I guess that I’ll
use Evernote instead, and store potentially useful posts to that. ( http://www.evernote.com
– very useful service)

David

On 14 Feb 2009, at 11:09, Thijs Koerselman wrote:
>
> One major problem I see is that all messages appear in chronological
> order instead of grouped in threads like in a mail client. My brain
> doesn’t do multi threading very well, and Re : Re : Re : Re is sooo
> 1993.
>

#151351
Feb 14, 2009 at 5:29pm

That’s not true. I do the same as you (saving useful emails). About 6 months ago I decided to switch to the RSS feeds. On a mac via Apple’s mail you can easily subscribe to the feed, and once downloaded it accessible locally. What you get pretty much looks exactly like an email from the forum. I have a couple dozen flagged emails that I’ve kept on hand (again, stored locally), and what’s nice is that the feeds contain a link back to the forum…so you only need to save one email of a thread if the thread appears interesting as a whole if desired. The only difference I’ve noticed for myself is that in order to reply you needed to log onto the forum (again, clicking on the link in the feed), which actually made my responses more timely since the forum was current wrt the email list do to latency in processing/sending out the forum emails…i.e. might minimize duplicate responses from different forum members. But as was announced, c74 has a solution they are testing which will allow you to reply directly to the feed.

I can be quite a curmudgeon when it comes to things like this, and have found that the transition to RSS feeds took about 2 minutes to get use to. I’m sure YMMV, but given the options available the change seems reasonable to me.

Cheers,
David

#151352
Feb 14, 2009 at 5:46pm

Well, I _was going to reply to this from NetNewsWire, but it hasn’t
appeared there yet! Anyway …
On 14 Feb 2009, at 17:29, David Beaudry wrote:

>
> That’s not true.

OK. I stand corrected. I’ll have a look to see if I can do something
like that in NNW.

ta

David

#151353
Feb 14, 2009 at 6:14pm

On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 6:29 PM, David Beaudry
wrote:

>
> I can be quite a curmudgeon when it comes to things like this, and have
> found that the transition to RSS feeds took about 2 minutes to get use to.
> I’m sure YMMV, but given the options available the change seems reasonable
> to me.
>
>

With Apple Mail, is it possible to group the items by subject thread? In
NetNewsWire I only managed to sort all the messages by subject name, which
is no solution since it messes up the date order. Being used to reading
lists in gmail I’d go nuts if all the items were mixed up like they are now
in my client. In Mail I’ve tried View->Sort by Thread, but that groups the
max subjects completely wrong. I really hope I’m missing something.

Thijs

#151354
Feb 14, 2009 at 6:23pm

David Stevens wrote:
> Well, I _was going to reply to this from NetNewsWire, but it hasn’t
> appeared there yet! Anyway …

The feeds are generated in real-time, so if NNW isn’t showing it to you, it is
because of NNW, and not the feed. As soon as a new post appears, it is available
via the feed.

w

#151355
Feb 14, 2009 at 6:25pm

David Stevens wrote:
> If you click on the (untitled) title bar above the posts column, you can
> sort alphabetically. It doesn’t work that well once a thread has enough
> RE:RE:RE:s in front of it though.

The RE:RE:RE:s are added by folks’ mail programs, and will not be present once
the mailing list is turned off, because the forum does not add all those when
someone replies.

w

#151356
Feb 14, 2009 at 7:00pm

David Stevens wrote:

> What I’ll miss is that I tend to keep (ie store locally) specific posts
> that either have a useful patcher in them, or contain a solution or idea
> that I can’t use right now, but that I think merits further
> investigation. So that won’t be possible any more.

In the more recent versions of NNW, I use a “Clippings” folder to store anything
useful that comes across my RSS feeds. I even have it subdivided, so there’s a
“Patches” folder, a “Torrents” folder, a “Right-Wing Idiocy” folder, a “Cool
Matrixsynth Videos” folder, a “CDM” folder, etc. etc.

I haven’t looked into it, but I could probably sync the Clippings folder offline
as well.

One thing I’ll also mention: if the RSS feeds aren’t behaving the way you would
like them to, you can use something like Yahoo Pipes to mash them up into
something more unique to your needs. For example, it should be possible to
create a Yahoo Pipe that only shows posts with patches attached to them.

Look at it this way: as was stated in my original email, Cycling just can’t
continue to support the mailing lists. However, we’ve given you some excellent
resources that will allow you to build your own solutions. If you don’t have the
time to build them yourself, then wait for somebody else to come up with
something close to what you need, and tweak it. It almost goes without saying,
but I would hope that anyone who is building stuff with Yahoo Pipes, etc. would
share them with the rest of the community.

The bottom line is, the community discussions are not going away as a resource;
they’re simply evolving into something more sustainable for the company to support.

cheers

w

#151357
Feb 14, 2009 at 7:37pm

I actually figure that it was because I use Newsgator to aggregate my
feeds, rather than a problem with the forum.

On 14 Feb 2009, at 18:23, Wallace Winfrey wrote:

> David Stevens wrote:
>> Well, I _was going to reply to this from NetNewsWire, but it hasn’t
>> appeared there yet! Anyway …
>
> The feeds are generated in real-time, so if NNW isn’t showing it to
> you, it is
> because of NNW, and not the feed. As soon as a new post appears, it
> is available
> via the feed.
>
> w

#151358
Feb 14, 2009 at 7:42pm

On 14 Feb 2009, at 19:00, Wallace Winfrey wrote:
>
> In the more recent versions of NNW, I use a “Clippings” folder

I just found that, so I’ll try using it. It may be that the Evernote
approach is better, as I can tag as I go. I’ll see.
>
> Look at it this way: as was stated in my original email, Cycling
> just can’t
> continue to support the mailing lists.

That’s fair enough. There’s bound to be a little bit of mumbling from
us old guys though – it’ll pass, because we have more flexible brains
compared to other people of similar ages, because of all the maxing we
do. :-)
> ,
> but I would hope that anyone who is building stuff with Yahoo Pipes,
> etc. would
> share them with the rest of the community.

yes please … anyone?
>
thanks

David

#151359
Feb 14, 2009 at 8:09pm

Will I still be able to get email notification when someone
posts to a topic (i.e. thread subscriptions)?

#151360
Feb 14, 2009 at 8:27pm

Thread subscription is already working no ?

#151361
Feb 14, 2009 at 9:09pm

Would it be possible to get the forum integrated with Max itself? I realize
one could visit the forum with jweb but it would be nice if patches posted
in the forum could be used in the forum.

#151362
Feb 14, 2009 at 9:45pm

Anthony Palomba wrote:
> Will I still be able to get email notification when someone
> posts to a topic (i.e. thread subscriptions)?

Yes, definitely. That’s part of the forum software, and separate from the
mailing list.

cheers

w

#151363
Feb 14, 2009 at 9:48pm

Quote: thijs.koerselman wrote on Sat, 14 February 2009 10:14
—————————————————-
> With Apple Mail, is it possible to group the items by subject thread? In
> NetNewsWire I only managed to sort all the messages by subject name, which
> is no solution since it messes up the date order. Being used to reading
> lists in gmail I’d go nuts if all the items were mixed up like they are now
> in my client. In Mail I’ve tried View->Sort by Thread, but that groups the
> max subjects completely wrong. I really hope I’m missing something.

I was just trying that too and it doesn’t seem to work. I think we’re in the same boat, Thijs. I was using gmail for the Max mailing lists and it was a really great way to follow conversations thanks to the threaded view. My only concern for using RSS is I can’t find an RSS reader with a threaded view. I don’t think anyone bothered to make this feature because RSS is normally used for news headlines rather than forums.

It’s don’t care how the forum messages are delivered, I just want a client that gives me the view I want…

I’ll keep looking, there’s gotta be a way. Worst case we can try a service that will forward the RSS feed to gmail.

#151364
Feb 14, 2009 at 10:02pm

Adam Murray skrev:
> My only concern for using RSS is I can’t find an RSS reader with a threaded view.
apparently http://www.sharpreader.com/ has a threaded view as well.
Supposedly really good, and it’ll probably be what I end up doing.

Now if only Ableton would get some RSS going too – Surely there’ll be
benefits to just having one forum team for both companies? It’s bound to
happen eventually ;)

Andreas.

#151365
Feb 14, 2009 at 10:06pm

You can use Thunderbird to subscribe to RSS feeds, AND it can organize posts by threads.

-Miguel

#151366
Feb 14, 2009 at 10:30pm

Quote: Miguel wrote on Sat, 14 February 2009 14:06
—————————————————-
> You can use Thunderbird to subscribe to RSS feeds, AND it can organize posts by threads.
>

Indeed. This seems good, I’m going to use Thunderbird as my RSS reader. Thanks for the tip.

Andreas, I saw SharpReader when googling around but it’s Windows only and I’m on a Mac.

#151367
Feb 14, 2009 at 10:37pm

On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Miguel Ortiz

wrote:

>
> You can use Thunderbird to subscribe to RSS feeds, AND it can organize
> posts by threads.
>
>
Great. I can stop worrying now. From Wally’s post I understand that we’ll be
able to customize things anyway.

I just had a quick look at Yahoo Pipes. It seems quite trivial to write
filters. I doubt if this would be possible but it would be cool if we could
decode the compressed patcher format back to JSON inside the Yahoo Pipes.
You can then write filters to search for patches containing only certain
objects. For example: “find all post with patches containing
jit.gl.asyncread”…. Just a thought.

I have been largely ignoring the whole RSS thing up till now. Seems like
it’s worth getting used to.

Thijs

#151368
Feb 14, 2009 at 11:05pm

WHYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!! I need it! :(

On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Wallace Winfrey wrote:

#151369
Feb 15, 2009 at 7:08am

#151370
Feb 15, 2009 at 12:45pm

ok, so i have subscribed to the beta feeds for max and jitter from
apple mail.
it was easy enough…

one thing i am missing, is to see who posted the message. this is only
reveald if i click on the “more information” link.
now, i have to confess, that seeing, who posted what, is influential
in making decisions on how i look at a message.

am i missing something, or is this not possible the way i set things
up? any hints?

then, having to log into the forum kind of breaks the workflow of
reading a bunch of mails offline and writing replies (e.g. while on a
train) and fire them off, when getting home. well this might be the
price of progress, then.

thanks
h

http://www.hans-w-koch.net

#151371
Feb 15, 2009 at 5:34pm

if some one finds a creative way to make threaded rss work in gmail it would
be very helpful.

#151372
Feb 15, 2009 at 6:23pm

ok, so i am trying with this rss-thing.
couple of issues:
- there are now more messages showing up in my oldschool-inbox than in my rss in box (e.g. stefans desparate message is missing in the rss but shows in the regular mail). why is that?
- why don

#151373
Feb 15, 2009 at 6:51pm

Quote: yair r. wrote on Sun, 15 February 2009 09:34
—————————————————-
> if some one finds a creative way to make threaded rss work in gmail it would
> be very helpful.
>

Agreed. You could try something like this: http://rssforward.net/ but there will probably be a big delay between someone posting to the forum and you getting it in gmail.

I’ve been trying Thunderbird and some other desktop RSS readers, but it’s not going to work for me. I like to catch up with the forum when I’m on the go with my phone. I need some centralized, online way to keep track of what I read. I’ll probably use Google Reader but it doesn’t have a threaded view. I guess I need to accept I might not have threads anymore, but it’s such a nice way to follow conversations. Maybe if we start pestering Google to add a threaded view to Reader…

I was wondering whether it could be possible for Cycling ’74 to continue the outbound mailing list, but not accept incoming mail. So we can follow the forum in email but need to come to the forum to post messages. Wouldn’t that help with synchronization and spam problem while maintaining many of the benefits of the mailing list?

#151374
Feb 15, 2009 at 7:14pm

> I was wondering whether it could be possible for Cycling ’74 to
> continue the outbound mailing list, but not accept incoming mail.
> So we can follow the forum in email but need to come to the forum
> to post messages. Wouldn’t that help with synchronization and spam
> problem while maintaining many of the benefits of the mailing list?

+1

this would be a brilliant solution for those on the road…

pa

#151375
Feb 15, 2009 at 8:26pm

yair reshef wrote:
> if some one finds a creative way to make threaded rss work in gmail it
> would be very helpful.

In a message posted yesterday, Adam Murray reported that Thunderbird is capable
of displaying messages by thread. Since Thunderbird is capable of working with
Gmail, this should solve your problem.

cheers

w

#151376
Feb 15, 2009 at 8:30pm

#151377
Feb 15, 2009 at 8:42pm

Adam Murray wrote:

> I was wondering whether it could be possible for Cycling ’74 to continue the outbound mailing list, but not accept incoming mail.
> So we can follow the forum in email but need to come to the forum to post messages. Wouldn’t that help with synchronization and
> spam problem while maintaining many of the benefits of the mailing list?

I will forward your suggestion but to be honest with you, I don’t think it’s
going to be possible for the company to support this. However, if there’s enough
demand, I will be glad to, on my own time, on my own server, set up a service
that grabs the RSS feeds and shoots them out to a mailing list.

If you would like to see this happen, then please email me privately, off-list,
so that I can gauge interest. Please keep in mind that in this capacity, I would
be acting not as a Cycling 74 employee, but as a fellow Max user.

cheers

w

#151378
Feb 15, 2009 at 9:01pm

fwiw, netnewswire has the option to display the “creator” of a thread, which turns out to be the post author. it can also sort by thread subject and date, which seems to be what people are asking. The only other thing i would want, is the ability to collapse all posts from one thread in the feed view.

i’ve been using the forum until now, but all this talk of rss piqued my curiosity so i decided to try it out. i think once the mailing list is gone, and subject lines retain consistency, it will work quite nicely, and much faster than forum browsing.

the clippings folder will also come in handy.

the “reply to this post” link is nice. i wonder if a “quote this post” link can also be added?

i’ve attached a screenshot of netnewswire, in case anyone cares.

-rob

#151379
Feb 15, 2009 at 9:20pm

#151380
Feb 16, 2009 at 12:11am

#151381
Feb 16, 2009 at 9:44am

#151382
Feb 16, 2009 at 9:52am

Dear Wallace

Your offer is very generous, yet I feel I should reply on-list to
stress the point that we have been used to such a high quality of
service from Cycling74, with list hosting and official staff
monitoring and replying, that I am somewhat expecting the company to
do this. An outward list is spam-free and should be simple to set up
from the service already provided.

Thank you very much for your kind offer

pa

#151383
Feb 16, 2009 at 10:12am

Apple Mail can show author: look under View->Columns.

Irritatingly, Apple Mail doesn’t let you edit the RSS URL – so I can’t turn “n=10″ into “n=“.

– N.

#151384
Feb 16, 2009 at 10:31am

Nick Rothwell wrote:
> Apple Mail can show author: look under View->Columns.
>
> Irritatingly, Apple Mail doesn’t let you edit the RSS URL – so I can’t turn “n=10″ into “n=“.
>
same with thunderbird… i think

p

http://pure.test.at
http://www.myspace.com/pvre
http://www.heartchamberorchestra.org

http://www.trblnc.org

#151385
Feb 16, 2009 at 10:34am

thanks nick,

that eases some of my pains at least :-)

the n=10 thing is how many messages to grab, i suppose?
that would mean loosing sync easily.
not nice :-((((((

h

http://www.hans-w-koch.net

Am 16.02.2009 um 11:12 schrieb Nick Rothwell:

>
> Apple Mail can show author: look under View->Columns.
>
> Irritatingly, Apple Mail doesn’t let you edit the RSS URL – so I
> can’t turn “n=10″ into “n=“.
>
> — N.

#151386
Feb 16, 2009 at 12:04pm

About Thunderbird, it looks promising, but there’s a few odds. Just edit the rss url putting n=100.

Good thing :

- look at the screenshots, it’s like the old mailing list, it’s almost grouped and it displays the authors

Bad thing :

- you can’t reply directly from Thunderbird, although Wallace did well adding a “reply” button which leads you directly to the answering form in your regular browser.
- the way Thunderbird groups posts is odd. Look again at the screenshots, there are 4 groups for this very discussion…

f.e

#151387
Feb 16, 2009 at 12:06pm

And just to follow on from Nick R’s point – you can also have the message creator shown in NetnewsWire – View/Columns/Creator

David

#151388
Feb 16, 2009 at 1:56pm

Haven’t heard anyone mention it yet, but I switched from NetNewsWire to the open source Vienna a while back.

http://www.vienna-rss.org/vienna2.php

It includes an “author” column….

#151389
Feb 16, 2009 at 3:04pm

I think you have to edit the info.plist file in ~/Users//
Library/Mail//RSS/Cycling ’74 Forum.rssmbox – the URL string is in
there….

B

On 16-Feb-09, at 3:12 AM, Nick Rothwell wrote:

>
> Apple Mail can show author: look under View->Columns.
>
> Irritatingly, Apple Mail doesn’t let you edit the RSS URL – so I
> can’t turn “n=10″ into “n=“.
>
> — N.

#151390
Feb 16, 2009 at 4:12pm

I had tried NetNewsWire in the past, but still preferred using the
mailing list up to this point.

Today, when firing NetNewsWire up again, I found that even with an
n > 10 (I set it to 100), and with manually asking for feed updates,
I was not getting the most recent posts (that I could see manually in
the forum and that flowed through via email).

In NetNewsWire, I right clicked the feed (the all forum lists one),
and tried to “Validate This Feed”. It seems as though the feed does
not properly validate, as it says that the feed has the following
error:

line 2, column 0: Missing feed element: updated

Could this be why the posts are not all flowing through to my NetNewsWire?

Dan

At 9:33 PM -0700 2/13/09, Wallace Winfrey wrote:
>ANNOUNCEMENT: Community discussions will be web-only after 2/20/09.


Dan Nigrin
Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major
Malfunction
http://www.defectiverecords.com

http://www.jackosx.com

#151391
Feb 16, 2009 at 4:26pm

Quote: Dan Nigrin wrote on Mon, 16 February 2009 09:12
—————————————————-
> I was not getting the most recent posts (that I could see manually in
> the forum and that flowed through via email).

This has to be an issue with the newsreader. If you simply open up the feed in a web browser, and compare it to the forum listing, you can see that the most recent post to the forum is also the most recent post in the feed. You can also try retrieving the raw feed source with wget.

The feed is generated in real time. Every time the feed is requested, it looks for the most recent posts and delivers them.

> line 2, column 0: Missing feed element: updated

I will look into placing this feed element into the feed. However, this is a very minor validation error. I know there are others who have been using NNW for years with the feed and have never reported this issue. Perhaps they never noticed.

w

#151392
Feb 16, 2009 at 4:42pm

Quote: kochhw wrote on Mon, 16 February 2009 03:34
—————————————————-
> the n=10 thing is how many messages to grab, i suppose?
> that would mean loosing sync easily.
> not nice :-((((((

I’m not sure what you mean here, but if the newsreader encounters an item it has already seen before, then it won’t usually add it again to the feed. The exception to this is when an RSS entry item has changed since the first time it was grabbed, in which case, some RSS newsreaders will display the item as unread, and also attempt to show the changes in between the old post and the new post.

I’m hoping this will be a way for the feed to reflect edited posts, but since we’ve not allowed post editing, I’m not sure.

w

#151393
Feb 16, 2009 at 8:08pm

quick question. I usually use the forum, ut now that i see this it would be nice to have all these posts on my laptop. ive used apple mail and netnewswire. seems like both max out with grabbing 100 feeds.
I am trying to grab more or less every post on the forum. im sure it will take a while and lots of space and all but, it would be nice to have all this on me lappie. would anyone kknow of anyway to do this. or even set mail or nnw to get more than 100 post at a time?

Thanks

#151394
Feb 17, 2009 at 10:00am

RSS problems:

“Resource unavailable.” (Apple Mail.)
“ERROR: Post flood triggered.” (NetNewsWire.)

– N.

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
http://www.cassiel.com
http://www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
http://www.last.fm/music/cassiel
http://www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
http://www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
http://www.loadbang.net

#151395
Feb 17, 2009 at 10:09am

Doesn’t help – I altered the XML but the feed URL in Mail hasn’t changed.

#151396
Feb 17, 2009 at 10:09am

>RSS problems:
>
>”Resource unavailable.” (Apple Mail.)

Although I was a mailing list user, I subscribed to the RSS in Apple Mail since a couple of monthes and had this error message quite often (many times a week). The resource generally becomes available again quite fast.

BTW, how can I quote previous posts in this forum interface?

p

#151397
Feb 17, 2009 at 8:40pm

Nick Rothwell wrote:
> RSS problems:
>
> “Resource unavailable.” (Apple Mail.)
> “ERROR: Post flood triggered.” (NetNewsWire.)

Haven’t ever seen these. You got these when, what? Trying to read? Refresh? What
URL are you accessing?

w

#151398
Feb 17, 2009 at 10:07pm

Resource unavailable crops up in Apple Mail from time to time.

Post flood triggered came from the forum when posting. Quite a few times today I got internal errors from it.

#151399
Feb 18, 2009 at 12:21am

Quote: nick rothwell / cassiel wrote on Tue, 17 February 2009 15:07
—————————————————-
> Resource unavailable crops up in Apple Mail from time to time.
—————————————————-

Yeah, I’ve never seen these, but then again, I don’t use Mail.app. If it’s only momentary, then hopefully this doesn’t cause anyone pain.

Keep in mind that the RSS feed will never be a 1:1 analog of the mailing list. It’s only intended as a bridge for mailing list users, and as a notification mechanism for everyone else. RSS will not behave the same way as email, and different clients will have different ideas about how to process it. Expecting the RSS feeds to behave exactly as your list subscription did is probably a recipe for disappointment. I am not saying that’s what you’re doing Nick, but now seems like an opportune time to address this issue.

—————————————————-
> Post flood triggered came from the forum when posting. Quite a few times today I got internal errors from it.
—————————————————-

Normally, when you get an internal error trying to post, it’s because the forum software doesn’t properly return the thread listing after you posted. This is what leads to people getting the double-post error. I’ve long suspected that this error results when two processes are writing to the forum db at the same time: the httpd process, and the script that pipes mailing list posts into the forum. Hopefully the forum upgrade will fix this error.

Post flood seems to triggered under proper conditions in your case. I see index.php?t=post accesses from your IP during these times:

[17/Feb/2009:02:56:38 -0700]
[17/Feb/2009:02:58:22 -0700]
[17/Feb/2009:02:58:30 -0700]
[17/Feb/2009:02:58:31 -0700]
[17/Feb/2009:03:07:28 -0700]
[17/Feb/2009:03:08:22 -0700]
[17/Feb/2009:03:08:32 -0700]
[17/Feb/2009:03:08:32 -0700]
[17/Feb/2009:03:08:33 -0700]
[17/Feb/2009:03:09:09 -0700]
[17/Feb/2009:03:09:10 -0700]
[17/Feb/2009:15:07:07 -0700]
[17/Feb/2009:15:07:55 -0700]
[17/Feb/2009:15:07:56 -0700]

The forum has a minimum time of 30 seconds in between posts. For some reason it would appear that your browser is attempting to post several times in rapid succession. If you try to post more than once every 30 seconds you’ll get the post flood message.

Hope this helps clarify things,

w

#151400
Feb 18, 2009 at 7:55am

>> “Resource unavailable.” (Apple Mail.)
>> “ERROR: Post flood triggered.” (NetNewsWire.)

>Haven’t ever seen these. You got these when, what? Trying to read? >Refresh? What URL are you accessing?

Refreshing the feed, with the following URL: http://www.cycling74.com/forums/atom.php?frm=7&mode=m&l=1&n=10&basic=1.

p

#151401
Feb 18, 2009 at 3:23pm

wallace winfrey wrote:
> … Expecting the RSS feeds to behave exactly as your list
> subscription did is probably a recipe for disappointment…
speaking of which…

1) i tried NNW:
seems to work ok but found no threaded view – do i overlook something?
(and it sucks to need another program to do something i did with
thunderbird until now)

2) i tried thunderbird:
threaded view works.
pluggo forum
http://www.cycling74.com/forums/atom-test.php?frm=9&mode=m&l=1&n=100&basic=1
doesnt work.
i recieved 10 messages when i added the pluggo-subscription for the
first time. since then it didnt load any new messages. i removed + added
the URL several time but always got the following error: “Alert
http://www.cycling74.com/forums/atom-test.php?frm=9&mode=m&l=1&n=100&basic=1
is not a valid RSS feed”
it seems i get this error also sometimes when refreshing the other feeds
but mybe i am just confused…

3) in thundebird: “show the article summary instead of loading the web
page” works for the jitter-feed but not with msp- and pluggo-feed. no
matter how often i deactivate/activate the option it always shows the
web view.

4) how do i actually reply??? both in thunderbird and NNW replying
always brings me to the web forum in firefox. is this the way its
supposed to be? cant i just reply directly like in… erm… email?

i am not the most frequent poster so this isnt probably so much of a
threat but i am sorry to say that i think that this whole rss thing will
decrease my motivation for replying to posts…

p

http://pure.test.at
http://www.myspace.com/pvre
http://www.heartchamberorchestra.org

http://www.trblnc.org

#151402
Feb 18, 2009 at 4:31pm

#151403
Feb 18, 2009 at 6:28pm

#151404
Feb 18, 2009 at 7:24pm

#151405
Feb 18, 2009 at 8:20pm

On Feb 13, 2009, at 8:33 PM, Wallace Winfrey wrote:
> ANNOUNCEMENT: Community discussions will be web-only after 2/20/09.

I’ve ranted about this decision in the past, mostly directly to
Wallace in email, but I thought I’d get in one more rant here, before
the email list goes away.

This change to Forums & RSS feed is a financially motivated decision,
and I certainly want Cycling ’74 to be profitable. But while it may be
more economic for the company, I think will end up being worse for the
community. I know that the casual help I offer will be diminished, as
it becomes an activity I have to seek out, rather than an activity
that fits in with my other work flow. The ability to start a reply,
then finish it when I have a spare minute, is crucial to the way I
contribute to this list.

RSS feeds are a really poor substitute for a list this active, IMO. I
suppose part of this can be attributed to the state of the existent
RSS tools, but only because these tools are being pressed into a use
that they were not designed for. While you can drive a nail with a
shovel, it makes a pretty poor hammer. RSS feeds are OK for monitoring
a lot of traffic, but not so good at interacting. I’ll still monitor
the list, but not interact as much, and it seems I’m not alone in this.

Here are some things that the new forum should have if it’s going to
approach being a replacement for the mailing list (at least for me):
– The ability to save drafts of postings in progress is key, for me.
– A search engine that’s actually worth something. The last time I
used it, the forum search left much to be desired. I can search my
email archive quickly, and get pretty good results.
– The ability to flag threads

Why not move to a Yahoo group, which gives a choice of delivery? It
works for the Logic mailing list, which has more traffic than this one.

To put a brighter face on it, maybe what this change represents is an
asteroid hitting the community, causing the extension of dinosaurs
like me (and several others), and opening up ecological niches for a
new generation of mammals. I just hope that there are enough helpful
mammals to fill the gap. Perhaps the next generation will be less
curmudgeonly :-).

- C

Chris Muir
cbm@well.com

http://www.xfade.com

#151406
Feb 18, 2009 at 8:36pm

#151407
Feb 18, 2009 at 8:47pm

Quote: Patrick Delges wrote on Wed, 18 February 2009 00:55
—————————————————-
> >> “Resource unavailable.” (Apple Mail.)
> >> “ERROR: Post flood triggered.” (NetNewsWire.)
>
> >Haven’t ever seen these. You got these when, what? Trying to read? >Refresh? What URL are you accessing?
>
> Refreshing the feed, with the following URL: http://www.cycling74.com/forums/atom.php?frm=7&mode=m&l=1&n=10&basic=1.
>
> p
—————————————————-

Please try atom-test.php instead. You’ll probably still get the same error from time to time, but hopefully that will be fixed once we upgrade the forum software on Friday.

#151408
Feb 18, 2009 at 9:31pm

At 1:36 PM -0700 2/18/09, wallace winfrey wrote:
>Quote: kochhw wrote on Wed, 18 February 2009 11:28
>—————————————————-
>> – keeping in sync with the forum seems at least difficult
>
>The feed is generated in real-time. I have done numerous comparisons
>over the last week, and not seen any discrepancy. Then again, I am
>not using Newsgator or other services that cache RSS feeds.

I was having problems with NetNewsWire and its associated NewsGator
online syncing mechanism (I like having the ability to move between
computers/mobile devices and having which posts I have read be sync’d
among them). Specifically I was not seeing all posts, and/or the
posts were very delayed.

Wally suggested to me that the online sync’ing Newsgator might be the
problem, and I confirmed it; as soon as I told NetNewsWire to stop
sync’ing to Newsgator, automagically I got all those posts that I
wasn’t seeing to flow in.

I did some digging in the Newsgator forums, and found this post from
the Newsgator CTO:

http://www.rassoc.com/gregr/weblog/2008/02/14/newsgator-feed-retrieval-intervals/

Currently, Newsgator reports that the all-forum Max feed that I’m
using,
(http://www.cycling74.com/forums/atom.php?mode=m&l=1&n=10&basic=1)
… has 7 subscriptions – the article would therefore suggest that
since this feed is in “category C”, and that its refresh interval is
1-2 hours. That accounts for the delay in receiving posts. Seeing
also that the Max forums frequently see more than 10 posts per 1-2
hours, and that the current default RSS feed fetches 10 posts at a
time, it is understandable why people are missing posts (if they are
using Newsgator to sync them).

If I change the “n=10″ in the feed URL to “n=100″, Newsgator sees
that as a different feed (I think), as then it reports that the feed
has only 1 subscriber (me). Then according to the CTO’s report
above, my refresh interval could be as infrequent as 4-8 hours,
depending on my own activity level.

So — does anyone have suggestions for alternatives to Newsgator and
its associated desktop and mobile apps that i could try? Or
alternatively, if we could get the subscriber list to get above 20
for the standard feed, then the refresh interval goes down to 15
minutes, which seems good enough…

Dan

Dan Nigrin
Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major
Malfunction
http://www.defectiverecords.com

http://www.jackosx.com

#151409
Feb 18, 2009 at 11:05pm

I was a newsgator/netnewswire user. And switch to google reader lately. The refresh rate is a little bit better. Not really good enough but a just a little bit better. I just hope that those services will improve.

ej

#151410
Feb 19, 2009 at 12:01am

Hi all,

Just thought I’d weigh in here…

I’ve now been using NNW on my Powerbook (os 10.4) for the past 6 months or so, with no problems and no lost posts. I check the forum via rss 4-5 times a day. I’m not using NewsGator, and have not altered the default settings of NNW other than displaying the ‘Creator’ column, making sure that it opens links within NNW rather than my default browser, automatically refreshes subscriptions every 30 minutes, and concurrently downloads 50.

Other than the lack of a reasonable threads view (which I understand the upcoming disappearance of prepended mail-related Re Re Re chains may help alleviate), I am pretty satisfied. On the other hand, I’m not a particularly finicky/tweaky power-user, I just want to keep in touch with the MaxMSP community and get/share ideas….so your mileage may vary.

Oh, I also use NNW to read news from BBC, New York Times, CNN, and Washington Post, etc. via rss…that’s been great, too.

Happy Maxing to all…

Steven

#151411
Feb 19, 2009 at 2:17am

Yeah, it’s the Newsgator sync’ing that messes things up… I may try
Google reader as Emmanuel mentioned.

Dan

>I’ve now been using NNW on my Powerbook (os 10.4) for the past 6
>months or so, with no problems and no lost posts. I check the forum
>via rss 4-5 times a day. I’m not using NewsGator, and have not
>altered the default settings of NNW other than displaying the
>’Creator’ column, making sure that it opens links within NNW rather
>than my default browser, automatically refreshes subscriptions every
>30 minutes, and concurrently downloads 50.
>
>Other than the lack of a reasonable threads view (which I understand
>the upcoming disappearance of prepended mail-related Re Re Re chains
>may help alleviate), I am pretty satisfied. On the other hand, I’m
>not a particularly finicky/tweaky power-user, I just want to keep in
>touch with the MaxMSP community and get/share ideas….so your
>mileage may vary.
>
>Oh, I also use NNW to read news from BBC, New York Times, CNN, and
>Washington Post, etc. via rss…that’s been great, too.


Dan Nigrin
Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major
Malfunction
http://www.defectiverecords.com

http://www.jackosx.com

#151412
Feb 19, 2009 at 8:10am

#151413
Feb 19, 2009 at 9:10am

#151414
Feb 19, 2009 at 10:02am

First of all, this thread should be carved into stone as to preserve it for future generations. It’s a beautiful thread. For this reason I had meant to stay out, but damn me, here I go.

Once upon a time the forum started as a flat email digest, that didn’t help for easy interaction. There were days that, because of the lousy signal to noise ratio, the digest was about to loose it’s meaning. But the community survived such crises, and has come out stronger. Technical advancement has been advantageous to the forum as a whole, regardless the method of interaction with it.

I was with the generation that started the email revolution, so I understand (pine anyone?). Also I learned that no one relies so heavily on email as those who were the first work with it. The to be raised children of the community-generation will not be able to see what is the fun of twitter and myspace. It’s something their parents do.

Honestly, of all the objections, there’s not one that stayed with me as proof of loss of something great, a sign of big demise, an approaching asteroid, or of short sighted gain on the part of those who maintain the forum. Certainly, there’s personal preference and maybe I should not take part in this discussion according to some rounded-corner-angry-choir-get-out-of-here logic. However, the technical state of art will change. There will be wifi in trains, there is a great development going on with smart phones, it is possible to jot down some notes digitally before coming to a final answer, search will improve.

It would be a loss to have to say goodbye to a handfull of respected pioneers. There are times that a big movement needs to be handed to a next generation, when we have to learn what their vision is, and put our attachments aside. In the meantime I hope that each will find the best next temporary method of interaction.

If I come up with a good patch to solve the issue, I’ll post it here. I can’t wait for friday.

_
johan

#151415
Feb 19, 2009 at 10:52am

#151416
Feb 19, 2009 at 11:37am

On Feb 19, 2009, at 2:02 AM, jvkr wrote:

> Honestly, of all the objections, there’s not one that stayed with me
> as proof of loss of something great, a sign of big demise, an
> approaching asteroid, or of short sighted gain on the part of those
> who maintain the forum. Certainly, there’s personal preference and
> maybe I should not take part in this discussion according to some
> rounded-corner-angry-choir-get-out-of-here logic. However, the
> technical state of art will change. There will be wifi in trains,
> there is a great development going on with smart phones, it is
> possible to jot down some notes digitally before coming to a final
> answer, search will improve.

I’m not sure I understand your point here. To my mind this change is
all about economics, preferences and workflow. There are economic
benefits to Cycling to a single solution. I get that, even though I
think that something like a Yahoo group is a considerably better
solution than the Cycling-hosted forum solution.

I’ve yet to hear of _any_ user benefits of going forum-only, and while
you might not share them, there have been several valid objections to
going forum-only, based on the workflow & preferences of various users.

The last part of your paragraph above seems to be saying that, while
it may not be so good now, things will get better as technology
improves. I guess that that’s true as far as it goes, but it’s also
true of just about anything technical, isn’t it?

> It would be a loss to have to say goodbye to a handfull of respected
> pioneers. There are times that a big movement needs to be handed to
> a next generation, when we have to learn what their vision is, and
> put our attachments aside. In the meantime I hope that each will
> find the best next temporary method of interaction.

I doubt that any of the people complaining about this change will go
away completely; I imagine their contributions will just be less
frequent. I still plan to monitor via the RSS feeds, and will try and
help if questions about objects or patchers I wrote come up. I just
just don’t see myself putting in the extra effort to tell people to
read the tutorials anymore :-)

- C

Chris Muir
cbm@well.com

http://www.xfade.com

#151417
Feb 19, 2009 at 2:20pm

> Not at all :-/

You can select the whole thread: Edit -> Select -> Thread and then use backspace.

p

#151418
Feb 19, 2009 at 6:25pm

Quote: Chris Muir wrote on Thu, 19 February 2009 05:37
—————————————————-
>
> On Feb 19, 2009, at 2:02 AM, jvkr wrote:
>
> I doubt that any of the people complaining about this change will go
> away completely; I imagine their contributions will just be less
> frequent. I still plan to monitor via the RSS feeds, and will try and
> help if questions about objects or patchers I wrote come up. I just
> just don’t see myself putting in the extra effort to tell people to
> read the tutorials anymore :-)
>
> – C
>
> Chris Muir
> cbm@well.com
> http://www.xfade.com
>
—————————————————-

That’s what stickies are for. ;)

But seriously, as a ‘noob’ I don’t want any of the old guard to go away. It is a little amusing how stuck we can get in our ways. This reminds me of my major professor who still uses OS 9, although there’s no real technological breakthrough to using a forum. I guess it really comes down to preference. I for one am on a couple of mailing lists but honestly I’m not too fond of them. I’d rather skim through a page of new posts than go through deleting mail I don’t care about. In this sense I completely understand why some are outraged because it’s as if Cycling has given preference to those who like forum communities like me and left those who don’t out to dry. Obviously it’s not their intention to do so; sometimes tough decisions have to be made. I hope people will stick around. There are probably going to be a lot more newcomers here once M4L is released.

#151419
Feb 19, 2009 at 6:45pm

RSS problems:
“Resource unavailable.” (Apple Mail.)
“ERROR: Post flood triggered.” (NetNewsWire.)

I got the same problems directly on the web forum, it’s not a RSS problem.
Participating with the forum takes really more time than with the mailing list.

#151420
Feb 19, 2009 at 6:55pm

Trying to use the web-based forum with Safari.
The following page appears an incredible amount of times!!! Never seen that on other web sites:

::
An Error Occurred

Please try to refresh this page in your browser to try again. If you continue to see this error, please contact us at support@cycling74.com.
::

Looking forward to Feb 20th, when you introduce the “new forum software”. Maybe that will be fixed.
J-F.

#151421
Feb 19, 2009 at 7:01pm

Quote: Jean-Francois Charles wrote on Thu, 19 February 2009 11:55
—————————————————-
> Trying to use the web-based forum with Safari.
> The following page appears an incredible amount of times!!! Never seen that on other web sites:
>
> ::
> An Error Occurred
>
> Please try to refresh this page in your browser to try again. If you continue to see this error, please contact us at support@cycling74.com.
> ::
>
> Looking forward to Feb 20th, when you introduce the “new forum software”. Maybe that will be fixed.
> J-F.
—————————————————-

I’m hoping, too.

#151422
Feb 19, 2009 at 7:43pm

On Feb 19, 2009, at 10:25 AM, David Huff wrote:

> That’s what stickies are for. ;)

Stickies don’t scale well, if there’s more than a few of them. It
really compromises the display of threads.

Better than stickies IMO, are a well designed set of sub-forums.

> But seriously, as a ‘noob’ I don’t want any of the old guard to go
> away. It is a little amusing how stuck we can get in our ways. This
> reminds me of my major professor who still uses OS 9, although
> there’s no real technological breakthrough to using a forum. I guess
> it really comes down to preference. I for one am on a couple of
> mailing lists but honestly I’m not too fond of them. I’d rather skim
> through a page of new posts than go through deleting mail I don’t
> care about. In this sense I completely understand why some are
> outraged because it’s as if Cycling has given preference to those
> who like forum communities like me and left those don’t out to dry.
> Obviously it’s not their intention to do so; sometimes tough
> decisions have to be made. I hope people will stick around. There
> are probably going to be a lot more newcomers here once M4L is
> released.


Well, to me, it’s like I was doing volunteer work, writing things for
people longhand. With the new changes I still have to write things
longhand, but now I have to use my other hand. I may still do it if I
feel it’s important, but the extra effort to use my other hand means
that I won’t do it as casually as I have in the past. I guess I’m just
“stuck in my ways” of using my dominant hand to write with.

In reality, there are only a few of us really complaining. I’m sure
new volunteers will emerge to take up any slack caused by some of the
old guard decreasing their involvement with the community.

- C

Chris Muir
cbm@well.com

http://www.xfade.com

#151423
Feb 19, 2009 at 7:45pm

I’m going to speak some heresy here. I started out using the forum, then later switched to the mailing list because it seemed more convenient to get all these messages in gmail in order to follow the myriad interesting discussions that happen here. But its such high traffic its been too much of a distraction lately (even with email filters that move things out of my inbox and into a max folder). This will only get worse with new users for M4L.

I’ve been trying the various options for rss but now I’ve come full circle and am using the forum again. I’m reading and posting this message on my phone and its fine. It keeps track of the threads I’ve read. There’s a couple things that I wish it did better but nothing is a showstopper (interested to see what the upgrade brings).

What I am trying to say is after some initial resistance I am happy to use the forum again. Just my opinion of course.

#151424
Feb 19, 2009 at 7:53pm

Quote: Chris Muir wrote on Thu, 19 February 2009 11:43
—————————————————-
> In reality, there are only a few of us really complaining. I’m sure
> new volunteers will emerge to take up any slack caused by some of the
> old guard decreasing their involvement with the community.
>

Definitely, but I hope you’ll stick around Chris. You’ve been a consistent helpful influence around here. And Stephan and the rest of the “old guard” upset by this change.

If Max can survive the move to rounded corners, I think it will have no trouble surviving this. ;)

#151425
Feb 19, 2009 at 8:17pm

On Feb 19, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Adam Murray wrote:

> Definitely, but I hope you’ll stick around Chris. You’ve been a
> consistent helpful influence around here. And Stephan and the rest
> of the “old guard” upset by this change.

Thanks. I’ll still be monitoring, at least.

> If Max can survive the move to rounded corners, I think it will have
> no trouble surviving this. ;)

That was easier to accept: concrete user benefits were part of the
package. It was easy to make up a list of pros and cons and make an
evaluation. From my POV, such a list for the forum-only change would
one sided.

- C

Chris Muir
cbm@well.com

http://www.xfade.com

#151426
Feb 19, 2009 at 8:53pm

#151427
Feb 19, 2009 at 9:04pm

#151428
Feb 19, 2009 at 9:17pm

#151429
Feb 20, 2009 at 7:15am

#151430
Feb 20, 2009 at 6:46pm

First my analog TV and now this! What is up with people killing
perfectly good distribution channels these days?

Bye, list.

bt

On Feb 19, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Chris Muir wrote:

> In reality, there are only a few of us really complaining. I’m sure
> new volunteers will emerge to take up any slack caused by some of
> the old guard decreasing their involvement with the community.

#151431
Feb 20, 2009 at 6:58pm

On Feb 19, 2009, at 6:37 AM, Chris Muir wrote:

>
> On Feb 19, 2009, at 2:02 AM, jvkr wrote:
>
>> Honestly, of all the objections, there’s not one that stayed with
>> me as proof of loss of something great, a sign of big demise, an
>> approaching asteroid, or of short sighted gain on the part of those
>> who maintain the forum. Certainly, there’s personal preference and
>> maybe I should not take part in this discussion according to some
>> rounded-corner-angry-choir-get-out-of-here logic. However, the
>> technical state of art will change. There will be wifi in trains,
>> there is a great development going on with smart phones, it is
>> possible to jot down some notes digitally before coming to a final
>> answer, search will improve.
>
> I’m not sure I understand your point here. To my mind this change is
> all about economics, preferences and workflow. There are economic
> benefits to Cycling to a single solution. I get that, even though I
> think that something like a Yahoo group is a considerably better
> solution than the Cycling-hosted forum solution.
>
> I’ve yet to hear of _any_ user benefits of going forum-only, and
> while you might not share them, there have been several valid
> objections to going forum-only, based on the workflow & preferences
> of various users.

and here’s my really serious objection to this policy: i use the max
forum, completely archived on my laptop, as a reference when i am on
jobs where internet is spotty. which is increasingly the case, as my
practice moves from a focus on live performance towards a focus on
installation design.

hey cycling: i would pay for the privilege of periodically
downloading the entire forum as a searchable offline archive.

and for what it’s worth, i too believe that this is an absolutely
terrible, community-killing idea. the max list pre-forum was, with
the exception of the NN garbage, consisistently the best signal-to-
noise ratio in my online world. i grieve for the old ways.

j

#151432
Feb 22, 2009 at 2:14am

Should the RSS feeds be working now?

#151433
Feb 22, 2009 at 2:21am

Nevermind. They started dribbling in right after I posted. I must have hit the cycle just right.

Another thing, though. Did the old Forum posting UI require such a wide window? The window seems to have to be about 1200 pixels wide to get to the Submit button.

- C

#151434
Feb 22, 2009 at 2:37am
Chris Muir wrote on Sat, 21 February 2009 19:21
Nevermind. They started dribbling in right after I posted. I must have hit the cycle just right.

Another thing, though. Did the old Forum posting UI require such a wide window? The window seems to have to be about 1200 pixels wide to get to the Submit button.

- C

It’s one of those CSS problem yet to be figured out. The reason it’s so big is because we turned on post formatting (FudML). If you can live with it for a few days, we’ll likely have it sorted out.

Update: OK, I’ve messed around with the CSS and templates, and the post form should be looking much nicer now, or at least, not going way off the page.

I also discovered a bug in the template updating tool that some of you may have seen — the “missing stripos” function. I’m not quite sure yet how to fix it, but I’ll keep an eye on it when I’m updating the templates.

I’ll be working on getting the formatting tools and message icon sections fixed up next. Thanks again for your patience.

BTW, did any of you notice the little grab handle on the bottom of the edit window?

w

#151435
Feb 22, 2009 at 4:22am
wallace winfrey wrote on Sat, 21 February 2009 18:37
Update: OK, I’ve messed around with the CSS and templates, and the post form should be looking much nicer now, or at least, not going way off the page.

Much better.

Quote:
BTW, did any of you notice the little grab handle on the bottom of the edit window

The thing that grows the edit field? Safari just does that for most forms (with a grow box on the lower right of an edit field), so I didn’t think to notice it.

#151436
Feb 22, 2009 at 4:36am
Chris Muir wrote on Sat, 21 February 2009 21:22
The thing that grows the edit field? Safari just does that for most forms (with a grow box on the lower right of an edit field), so I didn’t think to notice it.

Well, for the 80% of visitors to this site site that don’t use Safari, I guess they now get to see if the grass really is greener. ;-)

w

#151437

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