Forums > MaxMSP

Autechre Patch

May 28, 2008 | 4:42 am

For anyone interested in a patch designed by the seminal electronic duo Autechre, here it is. Their patching is extremely messy, so I didn’t bother trying to work my way through the tangles (and I’m not even sure I’d understand it if I did), but if anyone is able to give a brief summary (if possible) of what the patch does to make its sounds, it would be much appreciated.

Enjoy!

– Pasted Max Patch, click to expand. –


dnz
May 28, 2008 | 7:19 am

hi

is there a max 4.6.3 version?

dennis
Am 28.05.2008 um 06:42 schrieb Kyle Kaplan:

>
> For anyone interested in a patch designed by the seminal
> electronic duo Autechre, here it is. Their patching is extremely
> messy, so I didn’t bother trying to work my way through the tangles
> (and I’m not even sure I’d understand it if I did), but if anyone
> is able to give a brief summary (if possible) of what the patch
> does to make its sounds, it would be much appreciated.
>
> Enjoy!
>


May 28, 2008 | 11:41 am

from what i know those patches were stolen on a usb or something
this kind of "forced open source" sharing give me a taste of a weird
feeling here
wondering what autechre people think about these vulturish behaviors
i even met people who didn’t want to share those patches! which is
more weirdness…
I mean, yes now those patches are here and that’s it, but.. i prefer
to focus on the real open ones

>For anyone interested in a patch designed by the seminal electronic
>duo Autechre, here it is. Their patching is extremely messy, so I
>didn’t bother trying to work my way through the tangles (and I’m not
>even sure I’d understand it if I did), but if anyone is able to give
>a brief summary (if possible) of what the patch does to make its
>sounds, it would be much appreciated.
>
>Enjoy!
>
>

– Pasted Max Patch, click to expand. –

>
>
>


May 28, 2008 | 1:57 pm

Awesome, now I can finally sound just like Autechre. My max-list
subscription has finally paid off!


May 28, 2008 | 3:29 pm

joachim montessuis skrev:
>
> from what i know those patches were stolen on a usb or something
> this kind of "forced open source" sharing give me a taste of a weird
> feeling here
> wondering what autechre people think about these vulturish behaviors
> i even met people who didn’t want to share those patches! which is
> more weirdness…
> I mean, yes now those patches are here and that’s it, but.. i prefer
> to focus on the real open ones
>
so would I, but I don’t see any, to be honest.

I think perhaps Cycling should have a competition – submit your best
patch. Then we could have a field day remixing the work of others.

A.


May 28, 2008 | 4:07 pm

what’s up,

I have max 5.0.1 and I want to upgrade to 5.0.2. I can’t find the
link in the cycling 74 site. it’s not in the incremental upgrades
page. the only thing i seem to be able to do is download the entire
installer for 5.0.2. (112 MB) maybe there is a page i can’t seem to
find. if anyone knows what’s up I would appreciate the info.

thanks, nick


May 28, 2008 | 6:38 pm

Hi Nick,

Go ahead and download and install the complete Max 5.0.2 installer. It
will update your current install.

http://cycling74.com/downloads/max5

-Ben

Nick wrote:
> what’s up,
>
> I have max 5.0.1 and I want to upgrade to 5.0.2. I can’t find the link
> in the cycling 74 site. it’s not in the incremental upgrades page. the
> only thing i seem to be able to do is download the entire installer
> for 5.0.2. (112 MB) maybe there is a page i can’t seem to find. if
> anyone knows what’s up I would appreciate the info.
>


May 28, 2008 | 7:58 pm

Ok. thanks.

On May 28, 2008, at 2:38 PM, Ben Bracken wrote:

> Hi Nick,
>
> Go ahead and download and install the complete Max 5.0.2
> installer. It will update your current install.
>
> http://cycling74.com/downloads/max5
>
> -Ben
>
> Nick wrote:
>> what’s up,
>>
>> I have max 5.0.1 and I want to upgrade to 5.0.2. I can’t find the
>> link in the cycling 74 site. it’s not in the incremental upgrades
>> page. the only thing i seem to be able to do is download the
>> entire installer for 5.0.2. (112 MB) maybe there is a page i can’t
>> seem to find. if anyone knows what’s up I would appreciate the info.
>>


May 28, 2008 | 8:13 pm

I think there’s something to be said for people having their own
secret patches that sound like no one else and no else knows how to
replicate. It only makes us all patch harder to keep up and create our
own secret recipes for things. Having a bunch of templates for "how"
to create a drum machine and such is why people start using Max in the
first place. If you want a drum machine, buy one. Something I’m sure
Autechre was trying to do and probably why they wouldn’t want people
sharing. As great as open-source/sharing is, some things should be
kept secret.


May 28, 2008 | 9:04 pm

exactly.
passing around someone else’s intellectual property on a public forum without their permission is just kind of shitty imho.

Quote: echolock@gmail.com wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 14:13
—————————————————-
> I think there’s something to be said for people having their own
> secret patches that sound like no one else and no else knows how to
> replicate. It only makes us all patch harder to keep up and create our
> own secret recipes for things. Having a bunch of templates for "how"
> to create a drum machine and such is why people start using Max in the
> first place. If you want a drum machine, buy one. Something I’m sure
> Autechre was trying to do and probably why they wouldn’t want people
> sharing. As great as open-source/sharing is, some things should be
> kept secret.
>
—————————————————-



Eli
May 28, 2008 | 10:16 pm

The process of digitizing information in the form of symbols, pictures or sounds and then copying and distributing those "information packets" over the internet is something I highly encourage-AS LONG AS NO ONE MAKES PROFIT FROM THE COPIED MATERIALS.
So, I highly approve of distributing this patch-as long as no person other than the original creator presents it as their own work-or until the original creator of the patch says for the distribution to stop. Its free game now in my humble 16 year old internet-user opinion.


May 28, 2008 | 10:30 pm

"AS LONG AS NO ONE MAKES PROFIT FROM THE COPIED MATERIALS
[snip]
Its free game now"

Well, not to get all analibertarian on you, but make up your mind! Free as in game, free as in speech, or free as in beer?
Yeah, it’s "free" as in bird, now that the information is out there, but if there’s no permission from the authors, it’s not "cool" as in daddy-o.

"The process of digitizing information in the form of symbols, pictures or sounds and then copying and distributing those "information packets" over the internet is something I highly encourage"

Without explicitly venturing into "disgusting" territory, I’m guessing I could dream up a few scenarios that would make you want to retract that statement, and eventually agree that some things are sacred.



Eli
May 28, 2008 | 10:33 pm

No.


May 28, 2008 | 10:36 pm

I’m pretty sure this is not Autechre patch, or at least they never used it like that.
This patch isn’t that interesting.



Eli
May 28, 2008 | 10:37 pm

Everything digitized should be freely accessible to everyone, no matter what content is involved. But, that’s just my opinion, persuaded by dealing with the good that comes about from unrestricted copying.


May 28, 2008 | 10:39 pm

Quote: pnyboer wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 16:30
—————————————————-
> "AS LONG AS NO ONE MAKES PROFIT FROM THE COPIED MATERIALS
> [snip]
> Its free game now"
>
> Well, not to get all analibertarian on you, but make up your mind! Free as in game, free as in speech, or free as in beer?

Peter, that’s entirely too nuanced. Just put those videos
of his summer camp "initiation" up on youtube and have done
with it. As we all know, information "wants" to be free.


May 28, 2008 | 10:40 pm

On May 28, 2008, at 5:04 PM, Robert Ramirez wrote:

> exactly.
> passing around someone else’s intellectual property on a public
> forum without their permission is just kind of shitty imho.

Dunno. What bums me out more is that Autechre used to be on this list
but left because of a stupid argument that they should give Max credit
on their album covers (of which I have a few – thanks!). So I miss the
actual intellectual / artist and not the property so much. The last
message had something to do with giving the pencil credit for the
suicide note. O_o http://eyescratch.tk


May 28, 2008 | 10:45 pm

> What bums me out more is that Autechre used to be on this list
> but left because of a stupid argument that they should give Max credit
> on their album covers…

While they’re as right as anyone else to find the act of
reducing one’s creative activity to the tools used silly
and occasionally offensive, I’d wager that they found the
signal-to-noise intolerable.


May 28, 2008 | 10:49 pm

Why would anyone want to sound like someone else? That is my question. Max is there to liberate not imitate. Autechre is cool and all, but come on, use your creative juices. You should always want to go further than your influences.

The issue of what is sacred or not has a potential to become a huge thread. Just keep in mind the age old adage "you reap what you sow".

Now, do your own thing.
-chuck

—– Original Message —-
From: Eli Stine
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:16:53 PM
Subject: [maxmsp] Re: Autechre Patch

The process of digitizing information in the form of symbols, pictures or sounds and then copying and distributing those "information packets" over the internet is something I highly encourage-AS LONG AS NO ONE MAKES PROFIT FROM THE COPIED MATERIALS.
So, I highly approve of distributing this patch-as long as no person other than the original creator presents it as their own work-or until the original creator of the patch says for the distribution to stop. Its free game now in my humble 16 year old internet-user opinion.


May 28, 2008 | 11:18 pm

> Everything digitized should be freely accessible to everyone

Give me your credit card number. Now. No? Your medical records?
Hmm…oh wait…thats personal information, I guess your programming
isn’t?

Back to autechre:

So you have become the distribution channel. By distributing this
work, you have decided that your values on digital distribution
supersede those of the original copyright holder. You have effectively
become the rights authority imposing your will on another work, as
opposed to eliminating that authority, which is what I expect you
thought you were doing.

I hope you never get a real job working with digital content…that
might tarnish your precious values of bit freedom.

What does information "want"? Not a damn thing. This universe is cold
and indifferent.

There is a place for free copied works…and I support and use liberal
distribution licenses with all of my personal projects, however, you
have to respect the licensing decisions of others.

bt

On May 28, 2008, at 3:37 PM, Eli Stine wrote:
> Everything digitized should be freely accessible to everyone, no
> matter what content is involved. But, that’s just my opinion,
> persuaded by dealing with the good that comes about from
> unrestricted copying.

barry threw
Media Art and Technology

San Francisco, CA
Work: 857-544-3967
Email: bthrew (at) gmail (dot) com
Web: http://www.barrythrew.com


May 28, 2008 | 11:21 pm

Quote: bil3y_da_k1b wrote on Wed, 28 May 2008 17:37
—————————————————-
> Everything digitized should be freely accessible to everyone, no matter what content is involved. But, that’s just my opinion, persuaded by dealing with the good that comes about from unrestricted copying.
—————————————————-

And what, pray tell, IS the good that comes about from unrestricted copying?


May 29, 2008 | 12:06 am

allo,

> And what, pray tell, IS the good that comes about from unrestricted copying?

– unrestricted learning . . . . before you die and nobody gives a shite
who looked at what lines and listened to what noize from a computer
screen; but, hopefully remembered you for how you helped your family
and supported your friends. . … and their unrestricted learning.

_z


May 29, 2008 | 1:11 am

I did a bit of research being that first, the patch is pretty lame and
second, it says "powmod 2006" in the top of patch. That being Max user
"John Hidalgo-Barnes", also associated with Record-Label Records who
did some "reverse engineering Autechre" patches according to some
Google searching.

This is definitely not the work of Autechre so anyone who got all
excited that they had the formula for their next album can get back to
reading the Max docs and Computer Music Tutorial like everyone else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powmod



Eli
May 29, 2008 | 3:06 am

It’s still a nice little patch and from briefly looking at it learned some stuff that I could use in later patches I work on, the same way that I use information from reading the tutorials that come with Max.


May 29, 2008 | 7:18 am

Nick schrieb:
> what’s up,
>
> I have max 5.0.1 and I want to upgrade to 5.0.2. I can’t find the link
> in the cycling 74 site. it’s not in the incremental upgrades page. the
> only thing i seem to be able to do is download the entire installer for
> 5.0.2. (112 MB) maybe there is a page i can’t seem to find. if anyone
> knows what’s up I would appreciate the info.

Thats how it works, get the entire installer and install over the
existing… If you have a very slow connection you might want to wait
for 5.0.3…


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


May 29, 2008 | 3:45 pm

Nevermind that the patch isn’t even Autechre’s, as someone pointed out earlier (it was posted on idmforums.com as an AE patch), everyone should just relax. If I had "THE" autechre patch, "the one" that makes all of their amazing sounding music, then of course I wouldn’t throw it up on public forums. Now, a single patch, and one that doesn’t even seem to have much functionality, should not bring me so much finger shaking. Works by AE are one of many factors that initially drew me to MaxMSP, so when I supposedly came across a patch of theirs it greatly excited me. I thought it would excite others the same way, so I decided to share it. I’m not trying to expose secrets or steal the intellectual property of others. I’m posting a single, dated, limited patch from MaxMSP artists whom I greatly admire. So abandon your moral authority, because I agree with you, BUT there’s shades of grey in this world, and posting this isolated patch is not the same as stripping from AE their clandestine patching techniques.

And, no, people should not use MaxMSP as just a medium to use devices conceived by others. But examining the mechanics of others’ devices can bring inspiration and knowledge. Beyond that, I find that a lot of the fun in MaxMSP is figuring things out on your own, even if they’ve already been thought of. There’s a certain moment when patching, I believe in cartoons its represented as a light bulb turning on above the head, that makes it exciting and engaging. If you’re just biting other people’s works, your denying yourself one of the greatest pleasures of this wonderful program.


May 29, 2008 | 4:39 pm


May 29, 2008 | 4:42 pm

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 09:45:38AM -0600, Kyle Kaplan wrote:

> Nevermind that the patch isn’t even Autechre’s, as someone pointed out earlier (it was posted on idmforums.com as an AE patch), everyone should just relax. If I had "THE" autechre patch, "the one" that makes all of their amazing sounding music, then of course I wouldn’t throw it up on public forums.

Of course. It must be one hell of a patch, if it can generate amazing
music regardless of the creative input of the musicians. I would kill
for one of those.



f.e
May 29, 2008 | 4:47 pm


May 29, 2008 | 6:26 pm

give me a comfy chair and i will rival mozart
–uncle morty

On Thu May 29 12:39:07 EDT 2008, Jacopo Carreras
wrote:

> He the lighting bulb is cool!
>
> you are right, how many different and yet similar ways of slicing
> audio files/inputs, granularizing, interpolating values, saving
> modalities, amplitude analyzers, pitch trackers, samplers,
> synths, games, utilities are out there? And just to mention a
> few!!!
> And how much can you learn?
> ah, it is indeed the joy of our time, isn??t it?
>
> Give me a Max patch and I??ll move the world,
> Maybe Archimedes would say this today
> instead of his lever…
>
>
>
> On May 29, 2008, at 5:45 PM, Kyle Kaplan wrote:
>
>>
>> Nevermind that the patch isn’t even Autechre’s, as someone
>> pointed out earlier (it was posted on idmforums.com as an AE
>> patch), everyone should just relax. If I had "THE" autechre
>> patch, "the one" that makes all of their amazing sounding
>> music, then of course I wouldn’t throw it up on public forums.
>> Now, a single patch, and one that doesn’t even seem to have
>> much functionality, should not bring me so much finger shaking.
>> Works by AE are one of many factors that initially drew me to
>> MaxMSP, so when I supposedly came across a patch of theirs it
>> greatly excited me. I thought it would excite others the same
>> way, so I decided to share it. I’m not trying to expose secrets
>> or steal the intellectual property of others. I’m posting a
>> single, dated, limited patch from MaxMSP artists whom I greatly
>> admire. So abandon your moral authority, because I agree with
>> you, BUT there’s shades of grey in this world, and posting this
>> isolated patch is not the same as stripping from AE their
>> clande!
>> stine patching techniques.
>>
>> And, no, people should not use MaxMSP as just a medium to use
>> devices conceived by others. But examining the mechanics of
>> others’ devices can bring inspiration and knowledge. Beyond
>> that, I find that a lot of the fun in MaxMSP is figuring things
>> out on your own, even if they’ve already been thought of.
>> There’s a certain moment when patching, I believe in cartoons
>> its represented as a light bulb turning on above the head, that
>> makes it exciting and engaging. If you’re just biting other
>> people’s works, your denying yourself one of the greatest
>> pleasures of this wonderful program.
>>
>>
>
> Jacopo Carreras
> music weaver
> http://www.myspace.com/jacopocarreras
> http://www.lan-muzic.com
>
>
>
>

Patrick Pagano,M.F.A
Sound and Light Technologist
Nadine McGuire Theatre & Dance Pavilion
GAINESVILLE FL US 32611-5900
University Of Florida
(352) 273-1483


May 29, 2008 | 6:56 pm

i agree that posting someone’s work (which apparently wasn’t the case here) against their will is not a good thing to do.

that said, i strongly believe that public distribution of max works (or really any creative medium) definitely has its benefits. i know that a lot of people frown on the idea, thinking that people will use it to rip off other people’s work and that it’s cheating in a sense, but there are other things to be done with such material. true, if i simply grabbed someone’s patch and used it without alteration, it would be both immoral and uninventive, but having the ability to examine the work of others (particularly those as skilled as autechre) allows one to expand on the work, to manipulate and re-shape it in ways the original author had never considered. you could combine elements from a wide variety of sources into some strange new configuration, or merge them into your own creations.

the only real downside to sharing material so openly is that it’s definitely harmful to people who are trying to make money off of their work. i can definitely understand why someone would not want to share the patches that they’re using to produce some new album, or other such situations. but for a cases like synth patches that were used to make a song that was on an album you published years ago, i really don’t think that there’s any good reason not to release your work.


May 29, 2008 | 7:05 pm

… (continuation of my last post) …
as long as we use some mechanism for properly giving credit for borrowed creations (something along the lines of the GPL), the cases where credit is stolen to whatever degree would stand out as cheap junk, and would be shunned by the community, while worthwhile uses of other peoples creations would get the proper credit for whatever they contributed.


May 29, 2008 | 7:26 pm

Quote: thezer0ist@gmail.com wrote on Thu, 29 May 2008 12:05
—————————————————-
> … (continuation of my last post) …
> as long as we use some mechanism for properly giving credit for borrowed creations (something along the lines of the GPL)
—————————————————-

Rather than use the GPL, which can be a real can of worms, I think one of the use of a Creative Commons licenses would be a better fit:

http://creativecommons.org/

-C


May 29, 2008 | 8:29 pm

I bet that those Autechre guys can make some interesting noise with the pile of dried cowshit, and that they care less about some stolen Max patches…
if not, then they are a mentioned pile
yeah, right,
stolen max patch,
big deal…


May 29, 2008 | 9:34 pm

I think this thread has just demonstrated some of the negative results of "spreading information" in a sloppy manner.
In this day and age there is no reason an artist in digital media can’t release their own work on their own terms. Almost any software has a set of related information that a responsible programmer will include with it. Release implies documentation and support. I’m happy to share lots of patches with friends, but public posting of a patch means time spent explaining and supporting the patch for possibly years.
Here we see something that has been falsely attributed, released without any documentation, and wasn’t even necessarily a finished product. This sort of thing is a nightmare for an artist. "Hey Autechre, that patch you made doesn’t work!" The idea that removing control and presentation of someone’s work is liberating. Sure, I’m happy that Kafka’s friend didn’t burn his stories after his death, but someone releasing a soundboard recording of a band still working in the studio is forcing the artist into supporting work they were not ready to present.
While interesting, this debate could have been avoided by being a little less mysterious about the origins of the patch.


May 29, 2008 | 9:59 pm

Quote: KillingFrenzy wrote on Thu, 29 May 2008 17:34
—————————————————-
> I think this thread has just demonstrated some of the negative results of "spreading information" in a sloppy manner.
> In this day and age there is no reason an artist in digital media can’t release their own work on their own terms. Almost any software has a set of related information that a responsible programmer will include with it. Release implies documentation and support. I’m happy to share lots of patches with friends, but public posting of a patch means time spent explaining and supporting the patch for possibly years.
> Here we see something that has been falsely attributed, released without any documentation, and wasn’t even necessarily a finished product. This sort of thing is a nightmare for an artist. "Hey Autechre, that patch you made doesn’t work!" The idea that removing control and presentation of someone’s work is liberating. Sure, I’m happy that Kafka’s friend didn’t burn his stories after his death, but someone releasing a soundboard recording of a band still working in the studio is forcing the artist into supporting work they were not ready to present.
> While interesting, this debate could have been avoided by being a little less mysterious about the origins of the patch.
—————————————————-

while documentation and support are great, i’d rather have an undocumented, unsupported patch than no patch. i agree that it would be totally unreasonable to expect support for posted work (though if it is supported, that’s excellent), but i think that as long as the creator makes it clear that it’s undocumented and that they will not provide support, it should be fine.


May 29, 2008 | 10:02 pm

Quote: KillingFrenzy wrote on Thu, 29 May 2008 17:34
—————————————————-
> I think this thread has just demonstrated some of the negative results of "spreading information" in a sloppy manner.
> In this day and age there is no reason an artist in digital media can’t release their own work on their own terms. Almost any software has a set of related information that a responsible programmer will include with it. Release implies documentation and support. I’m happy to share lots of patches with friends, but public posting of a patch means time spent explaining and supporting the patch for possibly years.
> Here we see something that has been falsely attributed, released without any documentation, and wasn’t even necessarily a finished product. This sort of thing is a nightmare for an artist. "Hey Autechre, that patch you made doesn’t work!" The idea that removing control and presentation of someone’s work is liberating. Sure, I’m happy that Kafka’s friend didn’t burn his stories after his death, but someone releasing a soundboard recording of a band still working in the studio is forcing the artist into supporting work they were not ready to present.
> While interesting, this debate could have been avoided by being a little less mysterious about the origins of the patch.
—————————————————-

i agree that documentation and support are key to truly great software packages, but i would rather have an undocumented, unsupported patch than no patch at all. having to provide support would make most public postings of work simply unfeasible, but i think as long as the creator makes it clear that there is no documentation and they will not provide support to anyone, it should work.


May 29, 2008 | 10:56 pm

another Autechre patch

http://tinyurl.com/6rhh6r

#! < http://140.254.3.56/scimp3/allenstrange1.mp3>

On Fri, May 30, 2008 at 1:02 AM, thezer0ist

wrote:

>
> Quote: KillingFrenzy wrote on Thu, 29 May 2008 17:34
> —————————————————-
> > I think this thread has just demonstrated some of the negative results of
> "spreading information" in a sloppy manner.
> > In this day and age there is no reason an artist in digital media can’t
> release their own work on their own terms. Almost any software has a set of
> related information that a responsible programmer will include with it.
> Release implies documentation and support. I’m happy to share lots of
> patches with friends, but public posting of a patch means time spent
> explaining and supporting the patch for possibly years.
> > Here we see something that has been falsely attributed, released without
> any documentation, and wasn’t even necessarily a finished product. This
> sort of thing is a nightmare for an artist. "Hey Autechre, that patch you
> made doesn’t work!" The idea that removing control and presentation of
> someone’s work is liberating. Sure, I’m happy that Kafka’s friend didn’t
> burn his stories after his death, but someone releasing a soundboard
> recording of a band still working in the studio is forcing the artist into
> supporting work they were not ready to present.
> > While interesting, this debate could have been avoided by being a little
> less mysterious about the origins of the patch.
> —————————————————-
>
> i agree that documentation and support are key to truly great software
> packages, but i would rather have an undocumented, unsupported patch than no
> patch at all. having to provide support would make most public postings of
> work simply unfeasible, but i think as long as the creator makes it clear
> that there is no documentation and they will not provide support to anyone,
> it should work.
>
>


May 29, 2008 | 11:22 pm

> > I think this thread has just demonstrated some of the negative results of
> "spreading information" in a sloppy manner.

or of trying to have adult conversations with kids?!


May 30, 2008 | 9:16 am

thezer0ist schrieb:
> true, if i simply grabbed someone’s patch and used it without
> alteration, it would be both immoral and uninventive

If you’d take my Ondes Memorielles and use them unaltered, for sure this
would be neither immoral nor unintentive, because its an instrument…
You’d play it certainly different than I do…

(But its a mess, and I don’t think it would be too useful for anybody
anless as inspiration for your own stuff…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


May 30, 2008 | 10:39 pm

i hope AE makes a piece out of this thread :)

more for the AE fan club :

http://www.recordlabelrecords.org/ae.html

this stuff has been sitting around on line for quite some time.

so let’s move on


May 31, 2008 | 1:05 pm

If you are a fan of Autechre you should check out the album Huge Chrome Cylinder Box Unfolding by Venetian Snares.

Should be right up your street!



Dan
May 31, 2008 | 7:33 pm

I can’t resist bringing up the words of Neil Gaiman:

"No, that’s pizza," I want to tell them. "Pizza wants to be free.
Concentrate on liberating pizza from evil pizzerias. Information, on
the other hand, really hates being free, and is never happier than
when manacled to a wall, like Kirk and Spock in some piece of late 70s
bondage-oriented slash fiction."

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2002/04/reading-your-blog-on-fan-fiction-you.asp


June 1, 2008 | 3:33 am

that venetian snares album is quite good. i find most of his other works though too abrasive, too drum n bassy.


June 2, 2008 | 1:07 am

thats my favorite of all of Aarons works. I do like alot of his others though, love his remix of sesame streets pinball 12 counting track on infolepsy.

http://axiom-crux.net/music/000/Detroit_Underground/Jabberwok%20v6.mp3

-This comp track I did for detroit underground, pretty richard devine/autechre influenced. uses alot of custom max patches Ive made


June 2, 2008 | 1:15 am

Incidently, the reason I got into max was as follows:
I met Richard Devine at a lecture he gave at Cranbrook art community in 2001. During the lecture he talked about reaktor, max, and tons of other really cool sound design apps. After the lecture I hijacked him and brought him over to my place, and he showed me an autechre max patch, I was so blown away by the generative aspect of this, and how amazingly intricate the sounds it was creating, and watching it evolve on its own.. It was a mind opening experience. The next day I bought reaktor, and a few weeks later when Jitter came out I bought max. I kindof ditched reaktor after a few months because max was so much more open and capable. To this day I love max more then just about any creative tool.


June 2, 2008 | 1:16 am

lol


June 2, 2008 | 9:08 am

Quote: Axiom-Crux wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 19:15
—————————————————-
> he showed me an autechre max patch, I was so blown away by the generative aspect of this, and how amazingly intricate the sounds it was creating, and watching it evolve on its own.. It was a mind opening experience.
—————————————————-

Are you talking about the patch everyone is talking about here ?
I tried it and I do not feel any movement…
I’m surely missing something.


June 2, 2008 | 9:29 am

no, he’s talking about a secret one we aren’t allowed to see


June 3, 2008 | 5:30 am

No, it was a real autechre patch, their code is organized and clean and very well made, unlike this. Also the patch I saw sounded like autechre, also unlike this.


June 3, 2008 | 5:45 am

Oh, and there is a real autechre patch out there, I saw it on recordlabelrecords a while back (3.33 something). I have a ton of richie’s patches, im sure there are other (real) autechre patches in the folder he gave me, though I haven’t really looked much cause they are all for OS9

I do have to say that its of somewhat questionable taste to post someone else’s work in the public domain.


June 4, 2008 | 1:29 pm

I always enjoy looking inside patches , simple ones , complex ones , always something to learn from .


June 4, 2008 | 1:53 pm

> Why would anyone want to sound like someone else?

sampling is very popular, re-mediation is popular and there is no
end to re-make/remodels and redeux in music,films,television &
theatre. People DO want to sound like others.

i personally want to sound like "Richard Maxfield meets Amon Duul
II" :-)

Electronic music in the early 21st century is intimately connected
to "sounding like" imho.

I would hazard that the Autechre folks could care less who is
trying to sound like them, "isn’t imitation the sincerest form of
flattery? Are not many musics dependant on mimesis for
instruction?

I certainly "stole" Csound patches to learn when i was knee-high
to a stockhausen.

Please post the Original patch so i may steal their aesthetic
right away.
Right after i get done stealing Kurt Ralske’s aesthetic, i will
need music to go with it, so that patch will be a great help.

love and kisses,

Copycat.

Patrick Pagano,M.F.A
Sound and Light Technologist
Nadine McGuire Theatre & Dance Pavilion
GAINESVILLE FL US 32611-5900
University Of Florida
(352) 273-1483


June 4, 2008 | 5:26 pm

I cant speak for Autechre, or anyone else, but If I gave someone a patch in confidence, I’d certainly be pissed off if they posted it online without my consent.

On the other hand, if I gave someone a patch with the knowledge they were going to build on it, study it, make it their own, I would have no problem with them posting the result, or using the original patch to help others out. I suppose what I am trying to say is for me, it comes down to context and expectation, and the pretext during the exchange.

The reason I have little issue giving out the patches and code I do share is that I

A) I Give away the things I expect people to be able to learn from and make their own, and sincerely hope that they do just that. And chances are, if they dont, they will not make anything interesting or grow their style and aesthetic in any way. Ive gotten a few emails of designs folks have created using my framework, which they have modified, changed, and use and have extended. That is *awesome*.

B) Do not give away my best tricks (I keep my really nice spinning flashing torus VJ patch to myself, thank you very much).

In all seriousness, much of my aesthetic is tied in not just with how I perform, or what content I choose to mix, but how I code, the decisions I make, how I interconnect various internal and external variables to various different visual representations. There is a fine line between giving that away, and giving away your personal style, chops and licks.

There is no easy answer, and I try to keep a balance of things I share and things that are too ‘me’ to share, and I honestly get the impression many of you do the same, whether consciously or not.

I can say in the past, Ive shared things to folks in person, and have regretted it, because I had not grown tired or felt I had fully explored what I had created..

Meh, this is such a pointless discussion anyway.

"Right after i get done stealing Kurt Ralske’s aesthetic, i will
need music to go with it, so that patch will be a great help.

love and kisses,"

kisses indeed ;)


June 5, 2008 | 5:43 am

From the peanut gallery: this "I do not give away my best tricks"
school of thought is SO max-msp. The chuck heads are so much more
free love about their best tricks.

Not that either method is necessarily any better, I just find the
difference interesting.
It seems to be a big artist vs. scientist thing, that being that
artists are secretive (and intuitive) and scientists are open (and
analytical).

Again, there are plusses to either side. Everybody likely does a
little of both, in my experience people get tired of hearing you if
you share a little too much.

_Mark


June 5, 2008 | 9:04 am



f.e
June 5, 2008 | 9:26 am


June 5, 2008 | 9:46 am

Do magicians give away their magic tricks ?? until recently ; nope

Do sound engeneers give out their favourite EQ – comp settings and other studio wizardry ?? probably no , Probably this is what got them the gig in the first place ;

I do believe in the max builder’s ethic , if someone was kind enough to share a patch , you should at least give them credit for it .



m
June 5, 2008 | 9:50 am


June 5, 2008 | 11:07 am

On 4 Jun 2008, at 18:26, vade wrote:

> B) Do not give away my best tricks (I keep my really nice spinning
> flashing torus VJ patch to myself, thank you very much).

I have my very own throbbing techno doughnut, so there.

Communities seem to differ: the monome folks go for openness and
sharing, where the Max world is a bit more secretive. (I don’t know
whether that correlates with Max itself being proprietary; I don’t
have enough data points. Monome is completely open-source.)

I have a few Max secrets, but also give lots of stuff away as open
source (see http://www.loadbang.net for a list) so basically it depends what
mood I’m in.

– N.

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
http://www.cassiel.com
http://www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
http://www.last.fm/music/cassiel
http://www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
http://www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
http://www.loadbang.net


June 5, 2008 | 11:39 am


June 5, 2008 | 2:57 pm

Problem is, if someone took a photo of you nude and mailed it around to everyone, true we would learn what your body looks like naked, but did you intend it to be passed around to those you don’t know?
-chuck


June 5, 2008 | 4:23 pm

i recently noticed that if you look at the left matrixcrtl in the mid patcher they wrote AE!!
does anyone knows something about this patch?just to know what is about..this scares me! everytime i look at it i’m blown away..what impress me here is that from interface i can’t nearly understand what it does..(i mean, i can see some step-sequencer but that’s all) is it a fake?!!
andthreadgoeson!



f.e
June 5, 2008 | 8:50 pm


June 5, 2008 | 10:09 pm

monome makes their money off the hardware, and looks like they make a decent living at that.

Max you can turn into applets or plugins.

I think people do share alot of their little tricks, I think people are hesitant in giving out their full "max trackers" or "master patches" that generate their whole songs, because then your pretty much giving away rights to that song in all its variants. often max patches are geared toward creating a specific unique sound, and with such little unique left in the world, who wants to give theirs up.


June 6, 2008 | 3:43 am

I think I could have been more clear, when I meant tricks, I meant my "aesthetic/programmatic correlations" that I program, not "this is how to do/how I do, X Y and Z".

Id rather have someone ask me how do to X, Y and Z, and have them piece it together, than have someone ask, "how do I make it look (or sound), like this". This implies curiosity, an active, and creative energy, versus a passive, reactive and non creative energy (to my mind).

As for Max users being secretive, christ, you guys should frequent some other forums, the Max community is VERY open compared to many others. I can honestly say, if it were not for folks being as open as there are, I would not be the Max/Jitter programmer I am today.

Anyway, enough back slapping. Go make some patches….


June 9, 2008 | 12:39 pm

sebastian schrieb:
> Do sound engeneers give out their favourite EQ – comp settings and
> other studio wizardry ?? probably no

But not because they are afraid somebody would steal their favourites…
because they don’t have a favourite EQ – comp setting, they use their
ears instead…

Same is true for patches. It takes longer to understand a complex patch
than rebuilding the same thing, but better suited to your needs. (If you
are experienced – if you’re not, it won’t help you either… ;-)

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


June 11, 2008 | 10:41 am


August 17, 2008 | 6:34 am

This conversation maybe long and dead, but the talk about tricks, giving away tricks and the such interested me.

To start off, i myself am a Studio Engineer, also a Music Producer and in my free time an artist, plus a few other things. This is actually my job, i am on a payrole being a Studio Engineer.

The thing with giving away tricks is like a double edged sword. You can give away tricks, but those tricks may come back to you by someone else using them, namely the person who you showed them to.

With myself, i do give away pointers instead, not tricks. this is the same with nearly every producer/engineer in the business. Because your tricks are your tricks, it is what gives you your sound.

I am currently working on an album for release, and do have the artist sitting with me while i produce his album. But i also have a friend (David) who sits with me and watches what i do (or at least tries to). And i talk to him and say what things i am using to get a certain sound.
He has a hard time to get to start to make music, so i help him.
But i do not give away the tricks that i have come to teach myself over the years of producing albums and ep’s and my own material.
It is not fair on myself if he starts to use my tricks that i have taught myself, it would annoy me. So i dont show people what tricks i have up my sleeve.

As for Max patches. I feel that if you give max patches to people, you will have to expect that these people will share them out. But that is not always the case.
I have given a few max patches to people but in MXF format, so it can only be run in runtime, and not be messed with, also putting my name on it as well.
But myself, i live out in a country that does not even know max/msp, nor is it interested in my new breed of music. Because i dont make commercial house music.

I believe your tricks are your tricks, whether it is your friends or a loved one.
I dont share any of my best tricks, because that is what defines my music, especially the music i have been pumping out lately (myspace, have a check if you get bored).

So the end to this story is, share if you want to share, but expect those people to then share to others.
If you share, that is giving a gateway for others to find out, even if you dont want them to know.

Also as a bit of an extra incentive. If anyone reads Sound On Sound magazine, you will notice in the album production pages, where it show how a track or album was made in todays days, you will see there Pro Tools set up, but also there outboard hardware, sometimes they sellotape a piece of white paper over there special production trick, which is hardware. either being a compressor or reverb, but it is so special in there production and sound, that they can not let them know what it is.


August 17, 2008 | 10:30 am

thinking back a little

was’nt there an issue once that Autechre them self had hacked an application built by karlheinz Essl .

Karlheinz was not too happy either , asking shawn Booth "at least give me some credit !!!!"

Shawn Booth’s ansewer was (if I remember right ,very aggressive towards him ending up with a big f**k you attitude)

naughty naughty !!!!!!


August 17, 2008 | 10:38 am

i remember that post

I remember them saying that they had not used the patch, or had said that they modelled something like it, or something like that

I dont remember the F U, though


August 17, 2008 | 11:13 am

well Shawn never said the word F U

but definatly quiet aggresive attitude nether the less


August 17, 2008 | 1:57 pm

karlheinze said he believed autechre had used their patch. sean said he would have credited him if he had, and "give me some credit" was sean’s quote. its all in the archives


August 17, 2008 | 5:52 pm

I’m puzzled by this idea of "tricks." The point is to make music, and
if Max is being used to make music, that’s just a tool. The music is
up to the individual maker. To keep patches as ‘secrets’ is more
align with some kind of software product than a piece of music.

A Max patch, in this context, is an instruction set for music making.
So is a musical score, and that ranges from a Mozart Piano Concerto
the "I Am Sitting In A Room," where the piece itself is also it’s
instructions/descriptions, or a wall drawing from Sol Lewitt. This
obsession with the secrecy of a patch, rather than the music, leads to
what Andrew Hugill describes as technological listening, where one
listens for the means, rather than the ideas. If one is listening
technologically, than the music is not interesting enough to gain the
attention.

A patch is just a patch, how a musician uses it matters. I think an
ideal mark of a good patch is that it can be distributed and used by
various people to make different, successful, musics.

On Aug 17, 2008, at 2:34 AM, Lewis G. Edwards wrote:

>
> This conversation maybe long and dead, but the talk about tricks,
> giving away tricks and the such interested me.
>
> To start off, i myself am a Studio Engineer, also a Music Producer
> and in my free time an artist, plus a few other things. This is
> actually my job, i am on a payrole being a Studio Engineer.
>
> The thing with giving away tricks is like a double edged sword. You
> can give away tricks, but those tricks may come back to you by
> someone else using them, namely the person who you showed them to.
>
> With myself, i do give away pointers instead, not tricks. this is
> the same with nearly every producer/engineer in the business.
> Because your tricks are your tricks, it is what gives you your sound.
>
> I am currently working on an album for release, and do have the
> artist sitting with me while i produce his album. But i also have a
> friend (David) who sits with me and watches what i do (or at least
> tries to). And i talk to him and say what things i am using to get a
> certain sound.
> He has a hard time to get to start to make music, so i help him.
> But i do not give away the tricks that i have come to teach myself
> over the years of producing albums and ep’s and my own material.
> It is not fair on myself if he starts to use my tricks that i have
> taught myself, it would annoy me. So i dont show people what tricks
> i have up my sleeve.
>
> As for Max patches. I feel that if you give max patches to people,
> you will have to expect that these people will share them out. But
> that is not always the case.
> I have given a few max patches to people but in MXF format, so it
> can only be run in runtime, and not be messed with, also putting my
> name on it as well.
> But myself, i live out in a country that does not even know max/msp,
> nor is it interested in my new breed of music. Because i dont make
> commercial house music.
>
> I believe your tricks are your tricks, whether it is your friends or
> a loved one.
> I dont share any of my best tricks, because that is what defines my
> music, especially the music i have been pumping out lately (myspace,
> have a check if you get bored).
>
> So the end to this story is, share if you want to share, but expect
> those people to then share to others.
> If you share, that is giving a gateway for others to find out, even
> if you dont want them to know.
>
> Also as a bit of an extra incentive. If anyone reads Sound On Sound
> magazine, you will notice in the album production pages, where it
> show how a track or album was made in todays days, you will see
> there Pro Tools set up, but also there outboard hardware, sometimes
> they sellotape a piece of white paper over there special production
> trick, which is hardware. either being a compressor or reverb, but
> it is so special in there production and sound, that they can not
> let them know what it is.
>
> –
> —–
> LGE
> Artist/Producer/Quasi Thinker
> —–
> http://www.myspace.com/lewisgedwards
> Organic Electronic Music
>


August 17, 2008 | 7:12 pm

I agree with TortureArtist. Ingenuity defines a true musician who can remain above and beyond cliche by not defining their sound according to some set of tricks or techniques. If you give away your tricks, you are more likely to come up with new ones because you are forcing yourself to check in with a community of artists who keep using your tricks to come up with ingenious new uses and techniques. It’s good to have your own sound, but when that one sound is everything you do, then your sound is quick to grow tiresome and old. We’re talking about Autechre in this thread. I feel like after awhile, Autechre too, grew tiresome and cliche in their sound and many other IDM artists who followed suit came up with the same tired old glitchy sound just as cliche and scene-oriented as house music. I think sometimes, scenes are just systems of conformity that drown out any chance for ingenuity and invention. I listen to alot of experimental music as well and it seems there are also schools of thought there. I think it’s sad that there is even a John Cage school of thought these days and you can see the scene there drowning out any chance of individuality. Did John Cage intend for his ideas to become a set of norms? I don’t think so, but sometimes, it seems people gravitate towards the same techniques of composition in order to feel affiliated with some school of thought and as a result, they find tricks and techniques that help define their approach to this school of thought. If these are the only mechanisms for individuality within these schools-of-thought/scenes/systems, then it’s obvious why so many artists drown themselves in cliches and become tiresome to listen to as quickly as they gained recognition.

On a separate note, I like LGE’s music on the myspace page i checked out. It does sound a bit familiar in technique so I wonder how it is received there in Dubai where these techniques might be unfamiliar. It doesn’t mean that I can’t appreciate the individuality of the sound and composition. I think the sound and the composition are what makes it stand apart from other rhythmically oriented glitch/IDM/chill-ambient type music. Without the personality of the composition, it would just be yet another library of electronica techniques/tricks; which it is certainly not and I appreciate it for that.

On an even more separate note, have you all checked out Flight of the Conchords? They are a two-man novelty comedy duo who parody the rock-star lifestyle(a bit like Tenacious D but with much more intelligence and uniqueness). In doing so, I feel like they remain fresh and new in their songwriting because although they are imitating others, they are imitating every single other they’ve ever come across. It’s amazing to see all the different styles they parody, and they do it extremely innovatively and with a new kind of attitude that adds a bit of humility where you would least expect it. Maybe humility is the key to ingenuity? I don’t know. I don’t even know why I mentioned it here. Just something I thought might be pertinent to this topic but may not be at all. Who knows…


August 17, 2008 | 10:17 pm

Lewis G. Edwards schrieb:
> The thing with giving away tricks is like a double edged sword. You
> can give away tricks, but those tricks may come back to you by
> someone else using them, namely the person who you showed them to.

I would be honoured if what I teach is used. I share my tricks and if
they feed somebody else its fine and exactly what I would wish for my
friends. I’d never ever would consider a student being a competitor, the
distance is too big… ;-)

> With myself, i do give away pointers instead, not tricks. this is the
> same with nearly every producer/engineer in the business. Because
> your tricks are your tricks, it is what gives you your sound.

With tricks in audio, its like with tricks in wizardry, even if you know
the trick, you still need to practice it. There is absolutely no danger
to give away tricks. In Music its your listening skills and experience
which counts. If you only have tricks, you will sound like everybody,
which is exactly what is asked for in the pop world, that’s probably
much more the secret of your success than the tricks… ;-)

> I believe your tricks are your tricks, whether it is your friends or
> a loved one. I dont share any of my best tricks, because that is what
> defines my music, especially the music i have been pumping out
> lately (myspace, have a check if you get bored).

Your music didn’t bore me, its pretty original, and I can tell you that
anybody who would know your tricks, would still make very different
music. I don’t see any danger, I’d rather expect that I know your tricks
already, though your music doesn’t sound too tricky… ;-)

> So the end to this story is, share if you want to share, but expect
> those people to then share to others. If you share, that is giving a
> gateway for others to find out, even if you dont want them to know.

I certainly want them to know and share to others, check out my St.ools
and have fun… Then search for that Youtube video (or Myspace) and tell
me what’s the connection between my tricks and my music…
And I bet you won’t be able to make the same music even if I’d tell you
all my tricks… (And why should you, you make your own music…)

> Also as a bit of an extra incentive. If anyone reads Sound On Sound
> magazine, you will notice in the album production pages, where it
> show how a track or album was made in todays days, you will see there
> Pro Tools set up, but also there outboard hardware, sometimes they
> sellotape a piece of white paper over there special production trick,
> which is hardware. either being a compressor or reverb, but it is so
> special in there production and sound, that they can not let them
> know what it is.

The bigger the paranoia, the less knowledge. As if a reverb would make
the music. Some of the producers just use the most expensive gear to
create a distinction between them and the poor mass. As if they had no
skills at all (And if its a cheap nanoverb they hide it… ;-)
That expensive stuff does sound damn good for sure, but any skilled
engineer will pull out great music with less effort as well…
The gear is never the trick…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


August 18, 2008 | 4:56 am

Stefan:-

Well all what I said is my personal preferance. Of the side that not that many people are interested because it is not there style of music, what i do and what i make. so fair enough.

If i am a teacher , in which i have been a few times to help people, being a class teacher in music, a drumming teacher and also an engineer teacher. Yeah, i agree that passing on ‘tricks’ to them is fine. but not your best tricks that have taken a long time to figure out.
I have taught my students tricks, yeah. But i won’t show them ‘MY’ tricks.
I show them the tricks that can help them faster. such as how to do Hard Side Chaining Compression to Mix with Lead Pads. Giving that all knowing sound of dance and house music. Or how to get that Rock/Metal, kick drum ‘thud’ sound.
Those tricks i have taught for years, they’re second nature to me, when i teach.
But there are just some things that are mine and only mine, because for one it has taken me a long time to get the kind of sound i want.
I dont want someone to know my tricks that soon, they would have to work on it themselves, like i did.

You have to work, to get what you truelly want, not from some other guy.

And as for my music, pleasure you like it.


August 18, 2008 | 5:30 am

I guess I’m just not getting what all the talk is about ‘tricks’ – whether shared or kept. I don’t think one can really build a career on ‘tricks’ – either in the arts or in audio engineering. Ideas, concepts, techniques, these are part and parcel of being a creative person in whatever field. Tricks are more transitory and easily replicated – trendy and soon to be outdated.

I’d recommend to anyone in creative fields to focus less on learning or guarding tricks and spend more on crafting a set of concepts and techniques that will serve you well in whatever you do. Curiosity, adventurousness, and open-mindedness being chief among them.

Just my $0.02…


August 18, 2008 | 5:49 am

Anyhow,

I think we should stop this talk about ‘tricks’.

For some, they share, for others, they don’t.

I think we can just keep it at that, rather than doing all this answering back to each other about sharing and blah blah blah.

I feel this has just turned to a ‘I bet mine is bigger’ talk


August 18, 2008 | 5:52 am

Anyhow,

I think we should stop this talk about ‘tricks’.

For some, they share, for others, they don’t.

I think we can just keep it at that, rather than doing all this answering back to each other about sharing and blah blah blah.

I feel this has just turned to a ‘I bet mine is bigger’ talk


August 18, 2008 | 4:41 pm

hi all,

In IRCAM there was (is it still here ?) the MUSTICA project. In a few
words, it was a website with scores, patches, and all others media
systems for communicating from current composers to students… As there
was troubles with authorizations & rights from "super artists" So this
project will be aborted… think about that… And think about your ego
!!!!


August 27, 2008 | 4:45 pm

Quote: smalllotus@gmail.com wrote on Mon, 18 August 2008 18:41
—————————————————-
> hi all,
>
> In IRCAM there was (is it still here ?) the MUSTICA project. In a few
> words, it was a website with scores, patches, and all others media
> systems for communicating from current composers to students… As there
> was troubles with authorizations & rights from "super artists" So this
> project will be aborted… think about that… And think about your ego
> !!!!
>
>
—————————————————-

http://mustica.ircam.fr/mustica/rendu/index.php?action=all#

????


April 8, 2009 | 6:27 am

hi all,
People! where it is possible these patches for Max Msp to take? http://www.recordlabelrecords.org/maxmsp.html – this reference has died =(


April 8, 2009 | 11:26 am
Axiom-Crux wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 19:07
thats my favorite of all of Aarons works. I do like alot of his others though, love his remix of sesame streets pinball 12 counting track on infolepsy.

http://axiom-crux.net/music/000/Detroit_Underground/Jabberwok%20v6.mp3

-This comp track I did for detroit underground, pretty richard devine/autechre influenced. uses alot of custom max patches Ive made

Nice. i’m going to check out your albums. May i ask if your also sequencing in max or externally?

aaah..very old post, this thread had a bit of a legacy.


April 10, 2009 | 3:17 am

hehe, yeah I do alot of stuff with max+jitter, but not usually entire tracks(although I have a few times), usually I jam out on a generative rhythm machine that Ive made, and record it, and then take it into logic for polishing and embellishment.


June 16, 2009 | 5:25 pm

wow, there is a lot to examine..
thanks for posting this, good sir !


June 16, 2009 | 8:32 pm

a lota jokers out on the intertubes these days.


June 16, 2009 | 8:59 pm
Nick Inhofe wrote on Tue, 16 June 2009 14:32
a lota jokers out on the intertubes these days.

who are u referring to?


June 16, 2009 | 9:11 pm

you i imagine…

security question: how grim is rochdale?


June 16, 2009 | 9:19 pm
Mike S wrote on Tue, 16 June 2009 15:11
you i imagine…

security question: how grim is rochdale?

ahaha thats the most rubbish test ever
depends where u go

im not even from rochdale im from middleton


June 16, 2009 | 9:42 pm

well anyway, thanks for posting the patch and clearing things up Smile


June 16, 2009 | 11:20 pm

Stumbled across this –

Autechre Stone-Metal objects

http://seanbooth.com/


June 17, 2009 | 12:30 pm

People, can there were these sites with whom? http://www.recordlabelrecords.org/maxmsp.html
Share please, very much it would be desirable patches to touch these, I shall be very grateful =)


June 19, 2009 | 10:26 pm

Hi Sean,
Huge fan of your work with Rob B.
Impossible to express.

Thanks for sharing this and clarifying.
Hope you stopping by here means you will use coding languages again. Played Confield so much it got burned into my brain.

Be sure to check out http://ruinwesen.com/digital


June 20, 2009 | 7:21 pm

Wow.

Thank you for this patch. There’s a lot to be learned from it. At first, I looked at the spaghetti, and thought "Well, there goes my afternoon," but the locked interface is easy enough.

Time to Rewire and see what happens.


June 20, 2009 | 9:29 pm

it is all aqua minerale sean
AQUA MINERALE
who cares for the sources
as long as stuff is made available

normally this is the worst thread ever

its all only object boxes and connections
basically

Razz

-110

.


June 21, 2009 | 1:36 am

Yeah confield is among my very favorite albums for sure.

Richie D, Josh Kay, Rom del Castilo (Phonecia/Schematic) and I have had long conversations about that album. Its undoubtedly one of my go to albums for MAXMSP inspiration.

While I respected the awesome live show you guys put on in Detroit a few years back rocking only the monomachine/machinedrum and a few others, I really miss things like bine (wicked slurpy organic madness, so good) and ep7 type very maxy sounding work. I recently got a nord modular g2 and I find it is a good substitute for live performance when modular madness is desired.

Good work Mr Booth.

PS. any reason you ditched your very old account? I remember seeing posts back in 2000 or earlier… something of a discussion of the word Twat I think?? hahaha


June 21, 2009 | 2:10 pm
Roman Thilenius wrote on Sat, 20 June 2009 15:29
it
who cares for the sources
as long as stuff is made available

.

depends
when i heard lyrical king by t la rock i rem thinking ‘damn this doesnt sound very good for mantronik, maybe he lost it..’
then i found it wasnt mantronik but some other guy trying to do his style.
that made sense.


June 21, 2009 | 2:16 pm
Axiom-Crux wrote on Sat, 20 June 2009 19:36
I recently got a nord modular g2 and I find it is a good substitute for live performance when modular madness is desired.

yeah i dig the g2, we were using it in detroit actually.
still love the elektron gear like some people love 606 and 303.
a great quick way to make something solid.
funny all the miami crew liking the complicated stuff, the music i grew up on from miami was all skyywalker based..


June 21, 2009 | 5:48 pm

G2′s one of my favorite pieces of gear to get lost in. Like Reaktor without all the formal requirements.
Should’ve gotten the expansion when I had the chance. Runs out of power pretty quick.

Whats up with the infamous SOS patch? Some kind of Lambdoma? I can’t figure that shit out.

Nah, makes sense that they would dig the complicated stuff.
Used to skate around Miami as a kid. We’d all be listening to the radio trying to get hyped up and the DJ’s would go off on Fri night. Just when you were getting into it deep the stations would start drifting between two mixes and a fuckton of noise. Imagination just filling the gaps. Kinda like Pen Expers or some of that unreleased Gescom;)

Never heard it "pure".

Since everyones putting in requests: DraneIII
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coral_Castle


June 21, 2009 | 6:32 pm

So what does LOTA stand for anyways?
Lord of the Autechre?
Lover of the algorithm?
Look out, trees ahead?

This has actually been the push I needed to get into MSP. I had bought Max mainly for Jitter, because I’ve been obsessing over generative graphics lately. I’ve been a longtime Reaktor fan (my stuff is at http://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&type=0&ulbr=1&ftu=ea884fda7e2159f&userid=283428&sort=dt_create+desc&plview=list ), but every MSP patch I’ve seen has either been too simple (and easier/more flexible in Reaktor), or just a big pile of academic hoo-hah. Jitter, however, has awesome tutorial and community patches, and some of the FFT work I’ve seen with it has just been shocking.

Any opinions on Supercollider? A stable version for Windows finally came out, so I’ve been on the fence.


June 21, 2009 | 6:59 pm
ehdyn wrote on Sun, 21 June 2009 18:48

Whats up with the infamous SOS patch? Some kind of Lambdoma? I can’t figure that shit out.

lol you’re not supposed to figure it out

actually most of the stuff we make has little or no visual interface


June 21, 2009 | 7:16 pm
thelizard wrote on Sun, 21 June 2009 19:32
This has actually been the push I needed to get into MSP. I had bought Max mainly for Jitter, because I’ve been obsessing over generative graphics lately. I’ve been a longtime Reaktor fan (my stuff is at http://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&type=0&ulbr=1&ftu=ea884fda7e2159f&userid=283428&sort=dt_create+desc&plview=list ), but every MSP patch I’ve seen has either been too simple (and easier/more flexible in Reaktor), or just a big pile of academic hoo-hah.

thats a shame
you might be looking at the wrong patches

thelizard wrote on Sun, 21 June 2009 19:32
Jitter, however, has awesome tutorial and community patches, and some of the FFT work I’ve seen with it has just been shocking.

Any opinions on Supercollider? A stable version for Windows finally came out, so I’ve been on the fence.

its not bad, always sounds like sc… we use a lot of sound sources and originally were using max to make sequencers so we never fully embraced sc. with max we’re hearing results a lot quicker, for us that’s better cos we get inspired that way.

its probably quicker to build a "lush sounding" synth out of the box in sc but u can do the same and better sometimes in max if u figure out its strengths. max is way better for making sequencers, and hybrid seq-synth things, imo.

never checked reaktor really, i had it a while ago but it kept seeming like msp for babies.
that was probably my inability to adapt to it’s higher level approach or something.
also it was rubbish for making sequencers and that was pretty much all i was doing at the time.


June 21, 2009 | 7:47 pm
LOTA wrote on Sun, 21 June 2009 13:16
never checked reaktor really, i had it a while ago but it kept seeming like msp for babies.
that was probably my inability to adapt to it’s higher level approach or something.
also it was rubbish for making sequencers and that was pretty much all i was doing at the time.

I actually really appreciate you taking the time to reply.

I agree on the sequencing. Reaktor’s sequencing has always been a shortcoming for many users, as it has a more peculiar way of going about things with event tables. A lot of sequencers that end up in the User Library tend to either stick to the 303-style sequencing, boring 8-steppers, or piano rolls, but occasionally one will come out like Spiral, and Peter Dines just recently posted a drum machine on his blog that does Elektron-style parameter locks (and there’s practically nothing I’ve been wanting to try more than a MachineDrum). Plus, people like Rick Scott are usually reliable when it comes to cranking out something completely different.

I’ve been most excited for Max4Live, mainly to use Max sequencers for all sorts of things. I know that it is possible already using Rewire, but there are still way too many sync-bugs and timing issues to make it a viable option.


June 22, 2009 | 4:47 am
thelizard wrote on Sun, 21 June 2009 15:47
I’ve been most excited for Max4Live, mainly to use Max sequencers for all sorts of things. I know that it is possible already using Rewire, but there are still way too many sync-bugs and timing issues to make it a viable option.

I have had great luck building Max-Ableton Rewired sequencers. I am not happy about having to spend $190 just for a Live 8 upgrade, before spending another $150 (or more) for Max4Live. Between simple midi communication and rewire I have had no timing problems with my Max sequencers and Live 7. So I will go ahead and claim that it is a viable option.


June 23, 2009 | 12:12 am

re: ae

thanks for posting.


June 25, 2009 | 3:28 am

Sean – quick, unrelated question: do you ever foresee you or rob teaching within academia?

also, your pieces inspire me everyday. many thanks for your work.


July 8, 2009 | 7:09 am

Hello all! In fmautechrecopy patch there is an empty seat for a sequencer, I suspect, what the sequencer can be any, whether tell the rights I, or all for this purpose patch should be the individual sequencer? Here, that has turned out at me =)


July 8, 2009 | 9:47 am

if anybody is interested on this here one patch. it is a copy of an autechre patch. used on LP7 and others.

@ danny:- live 8 is worth it, really it is. i was using suite 7, then got the upgrade to suite 8 for free.
having the warping better, plus the new instrument and operator that much more better, the upgrade is worth it. plus the zoom in/out function, helps a lot. especially when you fill the screen with as many busses as your actual tracks.

i have been a big logic pro user for years, but always wanted to get into live, since i saw version 3.
i use live 8 that much now, i uninstalled logic from my computer, because live 8 does practically everything i need now
and now since max for live is coming out, it is all the more point to get live 8.

enjoy…


July 10, 2009 | 9:16 am

Hello all! Has tried to combine two AE a patch, something has added the, in general here, that has turned out =)
THERE CAN BE FAILURES IN WORK!


July 10, 2009 | 2:23 pm

Thanks for sharing. Interesting sounds in those patches. Is there

any chance someone would explain how to compile the exec files in

the folders? Max crashes quite a bit using the patch without those

objects featuring and I’d love to see them in full flight.

Thanks
J


July 12, 2009 | 3:05 pm

(End result))


July 15, 2009 | 10:53 pm

hi

2 things to mention.

-about the generative patch:I thought I read that it was not the original patch use on LP7 but a reverse engineering version of it by a Russian group called fizzarum < - or something. There were even explanation sheets w. it.

-congrats on the combination of the two patches, sounds nice.
I find it funny how the UI (big toggle and Bang in lower right/ all the toggles and presets organisation which all seems to imitate the patch that was shown in the SOS. < - the one you see on their wikipedia.

Nice combo work none the less.

I think the only one that is real (but a study for Sean) is the one he posted in this thread. But again who cares , they’re all food for thought. They’re what kick started me into MaxMsp a few years ago. They were the best tutorial one could wish for.

phil


July 16, 2009 | 6:39 am
Quote:
ts not bad, always sounds like sc…

Pretty bizarre statement there – so what does Max sound like.
SC has no single identifiable ‘sound’ – it’s all in the coding . .

And as for sequencing – SC has heaps available for pattern based music making, algo-stuff, neural nets, machine litening, etc

But then you need to be able to code, . . no boxes, cords etc
I would certainly recommend checking out SC to anyone interested

Cheers
Macciza


July 16, 2009 | 11:21 am
macciza wrote on Thu, 16 July 2009 07:39
SC has no single identifiable ‘sound’
– it’s all in the coding . .

i never said it did

also whether its all in the coding or not depends on the coding.
using klank for example, i can hear its sc, its not down to the coding. unless you mean how the classes are coded, altho if you make/use all your own classes you get away from what sc actually is.

macciza wrote on Thu, 16 July 2009 07:39
And as for sequencing – SC has heaps available for pattern based music making, algo-stuff, neural nets, machine litening, etc

i still think max is faster to work with.
(btw i assume youre discussing supercollider and not symbolic composer cos u may have a point if you are).


July 16, 2009 | 3:28 pm

Hi
Sorry but thats how your ‘sounds like SC’ comment came across . .
And yes I was talking about SuperCollider ( and assumed you were too) as I have not looked at SCOM since last century – and I’ve never been a very good lisper. Might check it out again tho, thnx.

Not sure I agree about Klank – surely you can do that same sort of ‘resonant’ stuff in Max – tho it may take a bit of work but if there were a klank-type object in Max it would sound the same imho

Why do you give the concession to SCOM – do you lisp? Wink

Anyway I probably should not have poked into this ‘autechre crap’.
Sorry about that, I’ll just be on my way,

Cheers
Macciza


July 16, 2009 | 3:48 pm

yeah i was being more general really. about klank i just mean its so easy to just get klank going that it occurs a lot in music.
sc makes it very available.
sc also has certain strengths and its probably considered good practice by most people to focus on the things they believe a bit of software does well. depends how deviant they are really.
also how productive, a lot of sc users i know are way more into programming than recording the output.

re: scom, just looked at your list of great composing tools and thought lol rems me of a list from mid 90s, scom.


July 16, 2009 | 4:11 pm
macciza wrote on Thu, 16 July 2009 08:39
But then you need to be able to code, . . no boxes, cords etc
I would certainly recommend checking out SC to anyone interested

Cheers
Macciza

what a luck that you do not need to be able to code to make
a neural network in maxmsp what? it is all just boxes and cords.

-110


July 17, 2009 | 1:00 am
Quote:
re: scom, just looked at your list of great composing tools and thought lol rems me of a list from mid 90s, scom.

Not sure what list of mine you might be talking about – or even what your point may be – apart from the fact that I am not a noob,

10 years ago I would have been using Max and Supercollider and experimenting with all sorts of other things – SCOM, GrainWavem, CSound, and a bunch of weird Unix stuff – so what . . . Some of my processing gear is far, far older than that and still fine . .

Oh- I guess I could have a laugh at the people using only the ‘latest, greatest, this century’ tools but what would be the point of being so pretentious and condescending . . . And I really have no interest in this autechre patch wank anyway – it’s just a patch and it seems to be in the public domain now, just get over it . . .

Cheers
Macciza


July 17, 2009 | 1:07 am
Macciza wrote on Fri, 17 July 2009 02:00
Quote:
re: scom, just looked at your list of great composing tools and thought lol rems me of a list from mid 90s, scom.

Not sure what list of mine you might be talking about – or even what your point may be – apart from the fact that I am not a noob,

10 years ago I would have been using Max and Supercollider and experimenting with all sorts of other things – SCOM, GrainWavem, CSound, and a bunch of weird Unix stuff – so what . . . Some of my processing gear is far, far older than that and still fine . .

Oh- I guess I could have a laugh at the people using only the ‘latest, greatest, this century’ tools but what would be the point
of being so pretentious and condescending . . .

Cheers
Macciza

thats nice

i wasnt being disparaging at all, sorry if i offended you


July 17, 2009 | 1:15 am
Quote:
i wasnt being disparaging at all, sorry if i offended you

Apologies also – Forum stuff is so easily misinterpreted . .
Did not intend it to become such an issue . . .
Max and SC are both wonderful tools with different pros and cons . .

Cheers
Macciza


July 17, 2009 | 2:31 am

Thanks friends, it is glad that my alteration has liked, I thought that I shall undergo to the rigid criticism =))


July 17, 2009 | 4:23 am
LOTA wrote on Sun, 21 June 2009 12:59
ehdyn wrote on Sun, 21 June 2009 18:48

Whats up with the infamous SOS patch? Some kind of Lambdoma? I can’t figure that shit out.

lol you’re not supposed to figure it out

actually most of the stuff we make has little or no visual interface

Disappointing but perfectly understandable that you wouldn’t want to discuss it. Seems many people are eager to confuse the hammer for the Composer.
Even still, can’t help but imagine how much poorer the world would be if Mandelbrot hadn’t shared his studies on distributions, or if Chowning had kept his research into vibrato quiet. Suppose we’ve got our belly’s full as it is though.

"Figure out" was a poor choice of words.To be sure I was inquiring about what the patch is and how it functions. Does the bird actually fly so to speak.
Maybe it’s a probability workbench – perhaps it’s just an elaborate symbolic wink? Guess we’ll never know… ironic then that simply contemplating it’s functionality has lead to so many conceptual breakthroughs in my own research. In the end I’m happy to consign it all to the realm of Majick.

Cheers for helping break me out of Flatland.

p.s. Nice work on the radio nova mix


July 17, 2009 | 4:48 am
LOTA wrote on Sun, 21 June 2009 13:16
always sounds like sc…

I read this as referring more to the rendering engine. SC has an unusual clarity in the upper registers.
The frequency response of the filters is a bit cartoonish as well. I like the framework, but it’s not for everyone.
Can’t think of any software that doesn’t have a certain characteristic sound.

Suppose he might also be talking about the tendency of people to hop into a given environment and belt out something that’s a bit obvious with the stock objects.

In any event Macciza, you’re coming off as a bit abrasive.
Provoking someone to roll around in the mud with you is not going to put you on equal footing. Only great works can do that.

Not sure about your dig on programming either. What constitutes "true" programming? None of us is an Ada or a Cray.
One could argue that all high-level languages are pseudo-code.


July 17, 2009 | 6:04 am

>>In any event Macciza, you’re coming off as a bit abrasive.
Provoking someone to roll around in the mud with you is not going to put you on equal footing. Only great works can do that.

I second that.

In the end it,s all about the music. The end artistic result. What you create w. what comes out of any tools or crap that you use. (your grandma’s wheel chair) < - even that will have identifiable characteristics & tendencies. It's how you sculpt it.

Max gives you that flexibility (it’s quick too). But surprisingly enough, for a great deal of people, the more the flexibility the less the creativity. In other words, they get lost in the flexibility.


July 17, 2009 | 10:23 am
ehdyn wrote on Fri, 17 July 2009 05:23
Even still, can’t help but imagine how much poorer the world would be if Mandelbrot hadn’t shared his studies on distributions, or if Chowning had kept his research into vibrato quiet. Suppose we’ve got our belly’s full as it is though.

"Figure out" was a poor choice of words.To be sure I was inquiring about what the patch is and how it functions. Does the bird actually fly so to speak.
Maybe it’s a probability workbench – perhaps it’s just an elaborate symbolic wink? Guess we’ll never know… ironic then that simply contemplating it’s functionality has lead to so many conceptual breakthroughs in my own research. In the end I’m happy to consign it all to the realm of Majick.

yeah didnt mean to sound dismissive, just that theres not much to tell. SOS really wanted studio pics and we didnt. they would settle for screenshots. at the time we werent really using max to do much music so some bits of those interfaces are from old ae patches, some work we did with max/jitter and some bits dont do anything at all.

we thought publishing a pic of one of our actual patches would have been quite boring. a blank window with like 4 number boxes or one massive button.

glad it inspired you tho, thanks


July 17, 2009 | 10:47 am
ehdyn wrote on Fri, 17 July 2009 05:48
LOTA wrote on Sun, 21 June 2009 13:16
always sounds like sc…

I read this as referring more to the rendering engine. SC has an unusual clarity in the upper registers.
The frequency response of the filters is a bit cartoonish as well. I like the framework, but it’s not for everyone.
Can’t think of any software that doesn’t have a certain characteristic sound.

Suppose he might also be talking about the tendency of people to hop into a given environment and belt out something that’s a bit obvious with the stock objects.

actually both.
sc def sounds recognisable, i rem rob describing it once as "deluxe" which i think is a nice way to say it.
altho the more we got into msp the less clear that distinction became, as we figured out what does and doesnt sound "deluxe" in msp.
fwiw i still have both installed but i use max a lot more, maybe cos im a lot faster on it.


July 17, 2009 | 2:10 pm
ehdyn wrote on Thu, 16 July 2009 22:23
Seems many people are eager to confuse the hammer for the Composer.

I will admit to perhaps not reading everything, but
would venture that Messrs. A and E have suffered
from that particular problem more than many. The
dead giveaway: the use of gear as a "terminal"
question. Seems like I’ve seen a lot of that in
terms of interview content – nobody ever drills
down into their love of hiphop, for example. Smile

Of course, sending a fan to do an interview isn’t
always the best plan, as I know from some personal
experience trying to do the things myself; questions
that go sideways in interesting ways are usually
crowded out by the fanboy equivalent of Byzantine
Theological discussions about angels, pins, and
rumba tempi.

For me, the interesting bit is the relative lack
of fanboy patch grovels in, say, yer acousmatic
diskorz.

Looking forward to the next H30/Ae outing,
gregory


September 3, 2009 | 2:08 am

One more version to combine some patches what was similar on Autechre-Gantz Graf-.Ideas were used from this forum =))



vaz
November 6, 2012 | 9:20 pm

Umm, what do you do with that coding ?


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