papermesh

Hello, I've just started using Max and I'm still working through the tutorials. I'm at about #30.

In one of the previous tutorials there was a patch that did the following

- Took in a CTLNIN object and connected it to a speedlim

I'm using a variation of this patch to trigger drums to a sampler. It's been giving me extremely interesting results, but what i'm really looking to do is make drumbeats that are really dynamic. Something that mimics the likes of squarepusher. I've tried many different variations, but still it sounds like the same old patch. Does anybody have any ideas?

Hello, I've just started using Max and I'm still working through the tutorials.  I'm at about #30.

- Took in a CTLNIN object and connected it to a speedlim
- It then went to noteout

I'm using a variation of this patch to trigger drums to a sampler.  It's been giving me extremely interesting results, but what i'm really looking to do is make drumbeats that are really dynamic.  Something that mimics the likes of squarepusher.  I've tried many different variations, but still it sounds like the same old patch.  Does anybody have any ideas?

automatic-beat-generator

check out nick collins supercollider work.

http://www.cus.cam.ac.uk/~nc272/code.html

or atau's relooper patch (ModSquadRedux.pat) in the examples folder /sequencing-looping/modsquad

these examples deal with this using actual audio samples.

however the principle is the same if u want it to send midi notes, u just have to adapt the patch to ur needs...

check out nick collins supercollider work.
more specifically the bbcut code.

these examples deal with this using actual audio samples.
however the principle is the same if u want it to send midi notes, u just have to adapt the patch to ur needs...

i think squarepusher plays his beats in live and then tightens jams in a sequencer. you cant just generate that stuff. you can control every parameter, but it always comes down to the decisions you make as a human, what sounds good....i've heard some pretty mental stuff done with wave editors.

i've seen him play live, and a big part of what he does is drumming 

out beats on his bass and filtering them live to sound like drumbeats.

he's an amazing musician, although i wouldn't rule out complex beat 

i've seen him play live, and a big part of what he does is drumming  
out beats on his bass and filtering them live to sound like drumbeats.

he's an amazing musician, although i wouldn't rule out complex beat  
programming on his part.


There's a great example of using 2dwave~ at

www.pelado.co.uk (the decimator patch) and you can get

some nice Squarepusherish effects by triggering

However, the bad news is that there is probably no

substitute for serious and intelligent cut n' pasting

in a wave editor. I forget where I've seen it, but

there is evidence to suggest that Squarepusher

actually works things out [i]on paper[/i]!

See also 2dwave~ and stutter~.
There's a great example of  using 2dwave~ at
www.pelado.co.uk (the decimator patch) and you can get
some nice Squarepusherish effects by triggering
stutter~ with bonk~ or simliar objects.
However, the bad news is that there is probably no
substitute for serious and intelligent cut n' pasting
in a wave editor. I forget where I've seen it, but
there is evidence to suggest that Squarepusher
actually works things out  [i]on paper[/i]!
cheers
Roger


http://www.recordlabelrecords.org/ae.html

Quote: bin wrote on Mon, 19 June 2006 06:37

----------------------------------------------------

> i think squarepusher plays his beats in live and then tightens jams in a sequencer. you cant just generate that stuff. you can control every parameter, but it always comes down to the decisions you make as a human, what sounds good....i've heard some pretty mental stuff done with wave editors.

humans are overrated ; )
i just found this http://www.recordlabelrecords.org/ae.html
not bad...

Quote: bin wrote on Mon, 19 June 2006 06:37
----------------------------------------------------
> i think squarepusher plays his beats in live and then tightens jams in a sequencer. you cant just generate that stuff. you can control every parameter, but it always comes down to the decisions you make as a human, what sounds good....i've heard some pretty mental stuff done with wave editors.
----------------------------------------------------


hey, by the way, don't know who's pelado, but great things out there ! 

p.decimator is really great, very clean, and p.storage rocks. Thanks mr. 

f.e chanfrault | aka | personal computer music

> >>>>>> |sublime music for a desperate people|

hey, by the way, don't know who's pelado, but great things out there ! 
p.decimator is really great, very clean, and p.storage rocks. Thanks mr. 
pelado.

f.e chanfrault | aka | personal computer music
> >>>>>> http://www.personal-computer-music.com
> >>>>>> |sublime music for a desperate people|


... unfortunately, but for this time, there are some real patches out 

... unfortunately, but for this time, there are some real patches out 
there. Not boring to take a look at.


Yes, I meant to say this when Mr. Pelado announced

these recently, and particularly in the light of

recent posts about sharing patches - these patches are

an excellent example of nicely annotated patches that

are easy on the eye, and thus easy to follow

Yes, I meant to say this when Mr. Pelado announced
these recently, and particularly in the light of
recent posts about sharing patches - these patches are
an excellent example of nicely annotated patches that
are easy on the eye, and thus easy to follow
cheers
Roger


Quote: f.e wrote on Mon, 19 June 2006 08:21

> ... unfortunately, but for this time, there are some real patches out 

yes, they're quite alright, i didn't want to start another ae thread.

Quote: f.e wrote on Mon, 19 June 2006 08:21
----------------------------------------------------
> ... unfortunately, but for this time, there are some real patches out 
----------------------------------------------------
yes, they're quite alright, i didn't want to start another ae thread.

which is why it is a useless attempt to try to sound 

like squarepusher by making a squarepusher patch and

the origin of music is music, it only pretend to be made

which is why it is a useless attempt to try to sound 
like squarepusher by making a squarepusher patch and
squarepushing it from its start button.

the origin of music is music, it only pretend to be made
by machines - or humans.

Quote: vade wrote on Mon, 19 June 2006 07:04

Quote: vade wrote on Mon, 19 June 2006 07:04
----------------------------------------------------
> oh jesus, not this again...  ;)
>
>
> v a d e //
>
> www.vade.info
> abstrakt.vade.info
----------------------------------------------------
=P


if you think music like squarepushers is going to make itself for you, or any music for that matter, then youre most likely hopeless

This guy asked how to make a probability based sample editor.

And you guys decided to make it an assfest about who can sound like what,

drummachines have no soul and all that bullshit.

There are a ton of plugins that already do this and there is a great patch

ModSquadRedux...its a good place to check and see how someone else

I use this stuff to prevent myself from passing out from repetition, not

just to "sound like squarepusher," but even if papermesh described that

broken beat sound that way, what gives any of you dicks the right to come

There are a ton of plugins that already do this and there is a great patch
that is included with the examples...

ModSquadRedux...its a good place to check and see how someone else
approached a similar idea.

I use this stuff to prevent myself from passing out from repetition, not
just to "sound like squarepusher," but even if papermesh described that
broken beat sound that way, what gives any of you dicks the right to come
down on him?

Ok, you're not ALLL acting like morons...

thanks computo..i knew i was going to get flamed when i posted this message...i should've been more clear about what i was trying to do...im not looking to sound like squarepusher.....it's hard to describe what im trying to generate.....i think i'll have to learn max more before i can implement and express my ideas...but generally something that produces

2. the other notes(accent) should be edited with a table linked to a sampler

next time i wont post "squarepusher" topics in an elitist forum....thanks for the warm welcome :)

thanks computo..i knew i was going to get flamed when i posted this message...i should've been more clear about what i was trying to do...im not looking to sound like squarepusher.....it's hard to describe what im trying to generate.....i think i'll have to learn max more before i can implement and express my ideas...but generally something that produces 

2.  the other notes(accent) should be edited with a table linked to a sampler

next time i wont post "squarepusher" topics in an elitist forum....thanks for the warm welcome :)


>if you think music like squarepushers is going to make itself for 

>you, or any music for that matter, then youre most likely hopeless

I dream about musique without musicians...

algorythmic generated sound like 3 color automaton and somecapteurs around?

you can hear more species than frogs and dragonflii in emperor 

noise from nature(cascade, wind,blitz,cigales...) and pure chaos 

computationalist generated musik can be refreshing shower for hear 

and shampoo for head than "musician" human-self expressing is 

>if you think music like squarepushers is going to make itself for 
>you, or any music for that matter, then youre most likely hopeless
I dream about musique without musicians...
  the listener make the musik...
  algorythmic generated sound like 3 color automaton and somecapteurs  around?
  you can hear more species than frogs and dragonflii in emperor 
protected natural garden.
noise from nature(cascade, wind,blitz,cigales...) and pure chaos 
computationalist generated musik can be refreshing shower for hear 
and shampoo for head than "musician" human-self expressing is 
virtuosity.
ganzUnMuzikalishMusik!
pascal


>> if you think music like squarepushers is going to make itself for 

>> you, or any music for that matter, then youre most likely hopeless

> I dream about musique without musicians...

> algorythmic generated sound like 3 color automaton and somecapteurs 

> you can hear more species than frogs and dragonflii in emperor 

> noise from nature(cascade, wind,blitz,cigales...) and pure chaos 

> computationalist generated musik can be refreshing shower for hear and 

> shampoo for head than "musician" human-self expressing is virtuosity.

I was not sure but now i am : we got a new Zsolt !

pascal baes wrote:
>> if you think music like squarepushers is going to make itself for 
>> you, or any music for that matter, then youre most likely hopeless
> I dream about musique without musicians...
>  the listener make the musik...
>  algorythmic generated sound like 3 color automaton and somecapteurs  
> around?
>  you can hear more species than frogs and dragonflii in emperor 
> protected natural garden.
> noise from nature(cascade, wind,blitz,cigales...) and pure chaos 
> computationalist generated musik can be refreshing shower for hear and 
> shampoo for head than "musician" human-self expressing is virtuosity.
> ganzUnMuzikalishMusik!
> pascal
I was not sure but now i am : we got a new Zsolt !


Quote: iamcomputo@gmail.com wrote on Wed, 21 June 2006 22:00

Quote: iamcomputo@gmail.com wrote on Wed, 21 June 2006 22:00
----------------------------------------------------
> What is this, the Live forums?
----------------------------------------------------

did you check all the links to patches? i thought you got quite some answers, though not really squarepusher.

Quote: papermesh wrote on Wed, 21 June 2006 23:37

>im not looking to sound like squarepusher.....it's hard to >describe what im trying to generate.....

it's a goood description for the type of sound, which certainly can be generated with max, but you'll have to do some editing.

>i think i'll have to learn max more before i can implement >and express my ideas...but generally something that produces 

do some searches on algorithmic composition essays, sometimes boring, but for example the nic collins' stuff as mentioned above, will give you hindsight, then you can adapt the ideas.

> next time i wont post "squarepusher" topics in an elitist forum....thanks for the warm welcome :)

well of course it's elitist. max is elitist, it has an academic background. squarepusher is elitist too.

sorry i can't offer specific help, percussion is hard. but, i'm investigationg it too, so post your patch with the elite for some shared fun if you find anything ; )

Quote: papermesh wrote on Wed, 21 June 2006 23:37
----------------------------------------------------
>im not looking to sound like squarepusher.....it's hard to >describe what im trying to generate.....
------------
it's a goood description for the type of sound, which certainly can be generated with max, but you'll have to do some editing.
------------
>i think i'll have to learn max more before i can implement >and express my ideas...but generally something that produces 
-------------
do some searches on algorithmic composition essays, sometimes boring, but for example the nic collins' stuff as mentioned above, will give you hindsight, then you can adapt the ideas.

-------------
> next time i wont post "squarepusher" topics in an elitist forum....thanks for the warm welcome :)
----------------------------------------------------

sorry i can't offer specific help, percussion is hard. but, i'm investigationg it too, so post your patch with the elite for some shared fun if you find anything  ; )


I think he meant that a lot of the people on this list are elitist. Not 

On Jun 22, 2006, at 12:15 PM, vade wrote:

I think he meant that a lot of the people on this list are elitist. Not 
the actual software.

On Jun 22, 2006, at 12:15 PM, vade wrote:


Quote: Bjorn Vayner wrote on Thu, 22 June 2006 09:26

> Quote: iamcomputo@gmail.com wrote on Wed, 21 June 2006 22:00

> ----------------------------------------------------

Up until now I love the fact that I'm *not* getting squarepusher sounds from MSP (with relatively simple test-patches), since all my algo's and interfaces are from scratch, so they have their own intricacies. Besides, if I wanted to do that sort of stuff I'd load up LiveCut.

Quote: Bjorn Vayner wrote on Thu, 22 June 2006 09:26
----------------------------------------------------
> Quote: iamcomputo@gmail.com wrote on Wed, 21 June 2006 22:00
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > What is this, the Live forums?
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
>
> :) Good one ;)
>
----------------------------------------------------

Up until now I love the fact that I'm *not* getting squarepusher sounds from MSP (with relatively simple test-patches), since all my algo's and interfaces are from scratch, so they have their own intricacies. Besides, if I wanted to do that sort of stuff I'd load up LiveCut.


Quote: vade wrote on Thu, 22 June 2006 10:15

seriously off topic now, so please ignore, but i have some explaining to do...

i don't mean elitist in the way that the elite excludes other people, but that in practice, this is the case.

-it was developed in a university/conservatory context,

so it's academic. only elite groups are academic.

-it's hard to use (compared to things like FL, reason,cubase), which limits it to the elite. everybody on here nows the gasps of admiration if you even mention max to some people. 

showing a patch sometimes makes you look like a prophet, like in the autechre interview.

i don't like that, but that's the way people react.

i mean, the guy from the gas station may be using garage band to knock out some tunes -which i think is great btw- that doesn't mean he would ever attempt using max, probably won't even know it. it's not a real alternative.

-it's used in technological high art, which by it's very nature is limited to knowledgeable people. high art is already up there, adding high tech makes it even worse.

that said, good art can always appeal to broad groups of people, especially interactive art.

and then squarepusher is one of the people (like afx and autechre) who took dance music and started mixing it with experimental elements, using techniques that before were limited to classical experimental styles.

unlike kraftwerk, it didn't get introduced in normal popular culture, but joined the underground alternative crowd -which is an elite group too- with the classical experimentalists.

i like that, a hybrid group of music and music lovers, joined by some of their tools and tastes, but i do believe it's an elitist thing.

to add, i live in china at the moment. on a population of 1.3 billion, there are quite a few people who listen to and make dance music.

my friends told me that there are only 2 (!) chinese in mainland china who are good with max, and a couple dozen in early learning stages. and they are not the sons of taxi drivers or construction workers...

so yeah, i think it's very elitist, but not necessarily in a bad way, it wuld eb nice if it would change, but i think it won't.

Quote: vade wrote on Thu, 22 June 2006 10:15
----------------------------------------------------
> junior:
>
> how is squarepusher elitist?
>
> how is max elitist?
>
> fuck that noise.
----------------------------------------------------
seriously off topic now, so please ignore, but i have some explaining to do...

max is  (and maxers are) elitist because:

-it was developed in a university/conservatory context,
so it's academic. only elite groups are academic.

-it's hard to use (compared to things like FL, reason,cubase), which limits it to the elite. everybody on here nows the gasps of admiration if you even mention max to some people. 
showing a patch sometimes makes you look like a prophet, like in the autechre interview.
i don't like that, but that's the way people react.
i mean, the guy from the gas station may be using garage band to knock out some tunes -which i think is great btw- that doesn't mean he would ever attempt using max, probably won't even know it. it's not a real alternative.

-it's used in technological high art, which by it's very nature is limited to knowledgeable people. high art is already up there, adding high tech makes it even worse.
that said, good art can always appeal to broad groups of people, especially interactive art.

to add, i live in china at the moment. on a population of 1.3 billion, there are quite a few people who listen to and make dance music. 

> thanks computo..i knew i was going to get flamed when i posted this

> message...i should've been more clear about what i was trying to

> do...im not looking to sound like squarepusher.....it's hard to

> describe what im trying to generate.....i think i'll have to learn

> max more before i can implement and express my ideas...but generally

You are welcome, and thanks for pointing to some music, as I never heard 

about squarepusher, just makes me wonder even if I'd not like it...

> 2. the other notes(accent) should be edited with a table linked to a

You are on the right track, its about algorithmic music which can be 

very expressive as soon you put some playable controls on it. And yes 

you have to learn Max by heart if you go that route, its fun though and 

> next time i wont post "squarepusher" topics in an elitist

> forum....thanks for the warm welcome :)

Keep on posting (including pushsquares), I kind of like some of the 

flames, because it helps to get our own (wrong) assumptions sorted out, 

the only thing I don't like is, if we start to call us dicks and alike, 

though it might be true, there are also women on the list.... ;-)

Sometimes it might be necessary to protect new members, but I think it 

works better to encourage them, than to flame against other members.

But keep flaming against concepts please, its a big difference...

papermesh wrote:
> thanks computo..i knew i was going to get flamed when i posted this
> message...i should've been more clear about what i was trying to
> do...im not looking to sound like squarepusher.....it's hard to
> describe what im trying to generate.....i think i'll have to learn
> max more before i can implement and express my ideas...but generally
> something that produces

You are welcome, and thanks for pointing to some music, as I never heard 
about squarepusher, just makes me wonder even if I'd not like it...

> 1.  realistic ghost notes for filler
>
> 2.  the other notes(accent) should be edited with a table linked to a
> sampler

You are on the right track, its about algorithmic music which can be 
very expressive as soon you put some playable controls on it. And yes 
you have to learn Max by heart if you go that route, its fun though and 
only your own imagination is the limit

> next time i wont post "squarepusher" topics in an elitist
> forum....thanks for the warm welcome :)

Keep on posting (including pushsquares), I kind of like some of the 
flames, because it helps to get our own (wrong) assumptions sorted out, 
the only thing I don't like is, if we start to call us dicks and alike, 
though it might be true, there are also women on the list.... ;-)

Sometimes it might be necessary to protect new members, but I think it 
works better to encourage them, than to flame against other members.
But keep flaming against concepts please, its a big difference...

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


> I was not sure but now i am : we got a new Zsolt !

No Zolt wasn't dreaming, he had a fixed idea of how the (Max)world 

should be, its more the opposite of that....

f.e wrote:
> I was not sure but now i am : we got a new Zsolt !

No Zolt wasn't dreaming, he had a fixed idea of how the (Max)world 
should be, its more the opposite of that....

> my friends told me that there are only 2 (!) chinese in mainland 

> china who are good with max, and a couple dozen in early learning 

There are a lot more than two Chinese interested in Max stuff. When 

we were in Beijing for ICMC '99, Miller was invited to talk to 

students at Tsinghua U. He told me he had a big enough and avid 

enough turn out, but there was no Max/MSP available at and his 

attempt to install Pd failed because he couldn't get an internet 

Given those sorts of hurdles, it's no wonder that Max know-how is a 

What I hear from people who do concerts in mainland China is also 

indicative of considerable interest. Even if it's only 0.001% of the 

population, it's still more people than you'll find in many other 

places. Still elitist though, at least by your definition;-

Peter Castine +---> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter

Interface Building for |home | chez nous|

Max/MSP Extremely cool |bei uns | i nostri|

On 23-Jun-2006, at 6:52, junior wrote:
> my friends told me that there are only 2 (!) chinese in mainland  
> china who are good with max, and a couple dozen in early learning  
> stages.

There are a lot more than two Chinese interested in Max stuff. When  
we were in Beijing for ICMC '99, Miller was invited to talk to  
students at Tsinghua U. He told me he had a big enough and avid  
enough turn out, but there was no Max/MSP available at and his  
attempt to install Pd failed because he couldn't get an internet  
connection to a server for downloading.

Given those sorts of hurdles, it's no wonder that Max know-how is a  
little sparse in PRC.

What I hear from people who do concerts in mainland China is also  
indicative of considerable interest. Even if it's only 0.001% of the  
population, it's still more people than you'll find in many other  
places. Still elitist though, at least by your definition;-

Automatic Beat Generator