BCR2000

Sep 25, 2006 at 2:13am

BCR2000

Hi,
Does anyone have a BCR2000 patch for making this thing work in 14-bit
mode? I just started using this thing and the effin’ manual did
nothing but remind me why I hate MIDI so much. I can’t make heads or
tails of this thing they call a “manual”, but I also have limited
experience with MIDI. Any help is greatly appreciated.

thanks.
wes

#27776
Sep 25, 2006 at 10:13am

Does the BCR2K work like Doepfer Pocket dial wich also comes with endless
rotary knobs ? though i’m not sure the doepfer works in 14 bits mode as i
don’t really know what 14bits mode is !
if it is so, i can give you a patch i made for the doepfer so you can use
it with [ctlin] without any value jumping…
y.

> Hi,
> Does anyone have a BCR2000 patch for making this thing work in 14-bit
> mode? I just started using this thing and the effin’ manual did
> nothing but remind me why I hate MIDI so much. I can’t make heads or
> tails of this thing they call a “manual”, but I also have limited
> experience with MIDI. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
> thanks.
> wes
>

#84484
Sep 25, 2006 at 10:39am

Hi,
you have to program a knob of BCR2000 so that it outputs a pitch bend
message for that knob

1. go in edit mode
2. with the 1th knob you select the type of controller (select Pb ?
pitch bend)

dans max use xbendin….open the help file….and it works

L

Il giorno 25/set/06, alle ore 04:13, Wesley Smith ha scritto:

> Hi,
> Does anyone have a BCR2000 patch for making this thing work in 14-bit
> mode? I just started using this thing and the effin’ manual did
> nothing but remind me why I hate MIDI so much. I can’t make heads or
> tails of this thing they call a “manual”, but I also have limited
> experience with MIDI. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
> thanks.
> wes

#84485
Sep 25, 2006 at 10:48am

…….finally it’s all explained into the manual of BCR2000…just
read it a little ;-)

L

Il giorno 25/set/06, alle ore 04:13, Wesley Smith ha scritto:

> Hi,
> Does anyone have a BCR2000 patch for making this thing work in 14-bit
> mode? I just started using this thing and the effin’ manual did
> nothing but remind me why I hate MIDI so much. I can’t make heads or
> tails of this thing they call a “manual”, but I also have limited
> experience with MIDI. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
> thanks.
> wes

#84486
Sep 25, 2006 at 12:31pm

I you want to use NRPN instead of pitch-bend, which might be usefull as you don’t have the
limitation of 16 that goes with pitch-bend (only one per channel), the [bcf2000] external included
in jasch_objects is exactly what you need.

http://www.jasch.ch/dl/

happy knobbing!

//yac

> Hi,
> you have to program a knob of BCR2000 so that it outputs a pitch bend
> message for that knob
>
> 1. go in edit mode
> 2. with the 1th knob you select the type of controller (select Pb ?
> pitch bend)
>
> dans max use xbendin….open the help file….and it works
>
> L
>
>
> Il giorno 25/set/06, alle ore 04:13, Wesley Smith ha scritto:
>
>> Hi,
>> Does anyone have a BCR2000 patch for making this thing work in 14-bit
>> mode? I just started using this thing and the effin’ manual did
>> nothing but remind me why I hate MIDI so much. I can’t make heads or
>> tails of this thing they call a “manual”, but I also have limited
>> experience with MIDI. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>>
>> thanks.
>> wes
>
>

#84487
Sep 25, 2006 at 3:13pm

Hi Wes,

i have a bcr2000 and gave up on the idea of getting 14bit data out of
it (i didn’t try very long..).

Instead I wrote a patch which only compares the value sent by a knob
with the value sent to it by my patch. In this way I can set any
resolution I want in my patch, since i’m effectively only looking at
up/down increments.
I’m not making myself very clear, am I ?

if you’re interested I can send you my abstraction, but it would need
some cleaning up to be understandable for others, i’m afraid..

ciao,

Joost.

On 25 Sep 2006, at 04:13, Wesley Smith wrote:

> Hi,
> Does anyone have a BCR2000 patch for making this thing work in 14-bit
> mode? I just started using this thing and the effin’ manual did
> nothing but remind me why I hate MIDI so much. I can’t make heads or
> tails of this thing they call a “manual”, but I also have limited
> experience with MIDI. Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
> thanks.
> wes

#84488
Sep 25, 2006 at 4:14pm

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for the posts so far. I’ve looked a Jasch’s object and I don’t
think it’s what I need. Now that I need something along the lines of
Nesa’s sysex patch:

http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=62743&rid=0&srch=bcr2000+sysex#msg_62743

Although I just found a followup to that a few months later here, so
maybe that will work:

http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=71005&rid=0&srch=bcr2000+sysex#msg_71005

What I’m curious about is where he found the information to make this
patch. I couldn’t find anything on the structure of the header bytes
or how to format all this data anywhere in the manual or online.
Nesa, where did you get such stuff from?

thanks.
wes

#84489
Sep 25, 2006 at 5:19pm

You want to use NRPN – you’ll need to program it first. Jasch’s patch object is what you’re looking for, I’ve used it to get 14-bit numbers coming in on all the channels. The manual isn’t terrible – try using jasch’s BCF2000 object, or midiin, hook up the BCR2000, and fool around with the programming. It’s nice when you get the hang of it – then you can set the range of the sliders within the 14-bit numberspace. I’d give you some more specific pointers but I can’t get to my manual right now, a broken water pipe upstairs dumped water all over my office, just missed drenching my computer. If you can pram low-level jitter objects, you can figure out midi – just remember that it’s not as complicated as they make it sound.

#84490
Sep 25, 2006 at 5:45pm

Alright, so I’ve got Nesa’s patch doing something. It talks to the
proper encoder, but I’m not getting it to behave like the settings
should make it behave. When I send it the settings:

knob, 42, NRPN, ccpar 9, min 0, max 1046, absolute/14, show value on,
1dot, increment 1, I get instead

knob, 42, SPC, [no channel], [nor ccpar], [no min], [no max], 1dot, on

Has anyone used this patch successfully? Here’s the version I’m working with.

thanks,
wes

#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P hidden newex 34 38 48 196617 loadbang;
#P hidden message 23 78 14 196617 0;
#P hidden message 285 78 14 196617 1;
#P hidden message 326 78 14 196617 0;
#P hidden message 218 78 34 196617 1046;
#P hidden message 203 78 14 196617 0;
#P hidden message 184 78 14 196617 9;
#P hidden message 251 78 14 196617 1;
#P hidden message 112 78 14 196617 1;
#P hidden message 57 78 20 196617 42;
#P comment 37 146 41 196617 type:;
#P user ubumenu 37 160 46 196617 0 1 1 0;
#X add knob;
#X add button;
#X prefix_set 0 0 0;
#P comment 288 105 32 196617 mode:;
#P comment 432 152 64 196617 display mode;
#P comment 318 175 58 196617 show value;
#P user ubumenu 112 130 71 196617 0 1 1 0;
#X add CC;
#X add NRPN;
#X add AT;
#X add todo:add other strings;
#X prefix_set 0 0
0;
#P user ubumenu 328 152 100 196617 0 1 1 0;
#X add 1dot;
#X add 1dot/off;
#X add 12dot;
#X add 12dot/off;
#X add bar;
#X add bar/off;
#X add spread;
#X add pan;
#X add qual;
#X add cut;
#X add damp;
#X add off;
#X prefix_set 0 0
0;
#P comment 276 175 29 196617 max;
#P user ubumenu 262 123 100 196617 0 1 1 0;
#X add absolute;
#X add absolute/14;
#X add relative-1;
#X add relative-1/14;
#X add relative-2;
#X add relative-2/14;
#X add relative-3;
#X add relative-3/14;
#X add toggleon;
#X add toggleoff;
#X add inc/dec;
#X prefix_set 1 0
0;
#P number 366 103 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P message 366 122 76 196617 increment $1;
#P newex 57 255 45 196617 loadbang;
#P newex 43 361 127 196617 midiout “BCR2000 [01]“;
#P user ubumenu 57 337 94 196617 0 1 1 0;
#X add “BCR2000 Port 1″;
#X add “BCR2000 Port 2″;
#X add “to MaxMSP 1″;
#X add “to MaxMSP 2″;
#X prefix_set 0 0
0;
#P message 57 277 65 196617 controllers;
#P newex 57 297 41 196617 midiinfo;
#P toggle 340 188 15 0;
#P comment 238 175 26 196617 min;
#P comment 190 175 34 196617 cc par;
#P number 274 188 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P number 234 188 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P number 109 183 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P button 23 185 15 0;
#P number 192 188 35 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#N vpatcher 37 42 1191 718;
#P origin 1 0;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P newex 641 385 27 196617 !- 2;
#P newex 641 407 56 196617 gate 2 2;
#P newex 5 67 27 196617 + 1;
#N comlet sysex bytes output , connect to midiout;
#P outlet 687 645 15 0;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 687 570 279 196617 append 240 0 32 50 127 21 32 0 12 36 101
110 100 247;
#N comlet (sym) display mode , default:1dot;
#P inlet 774 407 15 0;
#P newex 687 431 61 196617 t b l;
#N comlet show value(0/1);
#P inlet 704 167 15 0;
#P window linecount 0;
#P newex 189 543 321 196617 prepend 240 0 32 50 127 21 32 0 9 32 32 46
101 97 115 121 112 97 114 32;
#N comlet (symbol) cntrl. type (CC , NRPN , AT…);
#P inlet 235 363 15 0;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 189 567 39 196617 t b l;
#P newex 687 221 27 196617 i 1;
#P newex 687 247 62 196617 sel 1 0;
#P window linecount 0;
#P newex 189 439 56 196617 zl reg 67 67;
#N comlet (symbol) mode , def. absolute;
#P inlet 564 362 15 0;
#P newex 687 459 97 196617 zl reg 49 100 111 116;
#N comlet midi channel;
#P inlet 316 363 15 0;
#N comlet encoder number;
#P inlet 172 19 15 0;
#P newex 5 219 40 196617 t b b l;
#N comlet 0 or 1 – encoder or button , def. encoder;
#P inlet 143 19 15 0;
#N comlet bang to send sysex to bcr;
#P inlet 51 19 15 0;
#P newex 5 137 56 196617 gate 2 1;
#P newex 687 617 38 196617 zl iter 1;
#P newex 51 65 50 196617 t b l;
#P window linecount 1;
#N vpatcher 15 55 615 455;
#P outlet 45 230 15 0;
#P inlet 45 52 15 0;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P message 45 84 284 196617 240 0 32 50 127 21 32 0 0 36 114 101 118
32 82 49 247 240 0 32 50 127 21 32 0 1 36 112 114 101 115 101 116 247
240 0 32 50 127 21 32 0 2 32 32 46 110 97 109 101 32 39 74 73 84 84 69
82 32 84 69 77 80 79 82 65 82 89 32 80 82 69 83 69 84 32 39 247 240 0
32 50 127 21 32 0 3 32 32 46 115 110 97 112 115 104 111 116 32 111 102
102 247 240 0 32 50 127 21 32 0 4 32 32 46 114 101 113 117 101 115 116
32 111 102 102 247 240 0 32 50 127 21 32 0 5 32 32 46 101 103 114 111
117 112 115 32 52 247 240 0 32 50 127 21 32 0 6 32 32 46 102 107 101
121 115 32 111 110 247 240 0 32 50 127 21 32 0 7 32 32 46 108 111 99
107 32 111 102 102 247;
#P connect 1 0 0 0;
#P connect 0 0 2 0;
#P pop;
#P newobj 51 43 86 196617 p bcr200header;
#P comment 845 204 209 196617 6. send ‘end’ sequence;
#P comment 845 188 233 196617 5. set display mode(1dot , 2dot…) for
knobs only;
#P newex 687 522 56 196617 append 247;
#P newex 774 432 40 196617 atoi;
#P newex 687 492 331 196617 prepend 240 0 32 50 127 21 32 0 11 32 32
46 109 111 100 101 32;
#P comment 802 408 133 196617 display mode(only knobs):;
#P comment 745 524 167 196617 sequence for display mode(knobs);
#P newex 713 272 27 196617 t off;
#P newex 687 272 24 196617 t on;
#P newex 687 358 56 196617 append 247;
#P newex 687 300 40 196617 atoi;
#P newex 687 328 431 196617 prepend 240 0 32 50 127 21 32 0 10 32 32
46 115 104 111 119 118 97 108 117 101 32;
#P comment 743 274 100 196617 show value;
#P comment 745 360 143 196617 sequence for showvalue;
#P comment 845 172 166 196617 4. set show value on/off;
#P comment 247 522 208 196617 sequence for setting encoder or button info;
#P newex 235 384 40 196617 atoi;
#P newex 189 520 56 196617 append 247;
#P comment 195 424 54 196617 default:CC;
#P comment 553 346 53 196617 mode:;
#P newex 316 442 40 196617 atoi;
#N comlet (int) maximum value;
#P inlet 502 362 15 0;
#P comment 501 346 67 196617 high range:;
#N comlet (int)minimum value;
#P inlet 440 362 15 0;
#P comment 439 346 53 196617 low range:;
#N comlet cc param. number;
#P inlet 378 362 15 0;
#P comment 377 346 67 196617 parameter:;
#P newex 316 396 260 196617 pack 1 0 0 127 absolute;
#P comment 315 346 44 196617 channel:;
#P newex 189 496 137 196617 zl join;
#P newex 189 466 51 196617 append 32;
#P comment 109 544 90 196617 easypar header:;
#P comment 845 156 166 196617 3. set encoder data(type , range…);
#P newex 337 188 56 196617 append 247;
#P newex 337 166 331 196617 prepend 240 0 32 50 127 21 32 0 8 36 98
117 116 116 111 110 32;
#P comment 395 190 143 196617 sequence for button id number;
#P comment 845 140 100 196617 2. set encoder id;
#P comment 845 124 175 196617 2. set encoder type(knob or button);
#P newex 5 190 56 196617 append 247;
#P newex 51 88 131 196617 i 1;
#P newex 51 110 40 196617 atoi;
#P newex 5 168 349 196617 prepend 240 0 32 50 127 21 32 0 8 36 101 110
99 111 100 101 114 32;
#P comment 183 90 119 196617 encoder/button number;
#P comment 845 108 100 196617 1. send header;
#P comment 77 190 157 196617 sequence for encoder id number;
#P window linecount 0;
#P comment -13 119 100 196617 1/2 enc/btn;
#P comment 929 572 100 196617 end sequence;
#P comment 605 377 100 196617 error in button logic;
#P fasten 53 0 70 0 148 38 10 38;
#P lcolor 9;
#P connect 70 0 51 0;
#P connect 51 0 6 0;
#P connect 6 0 9 0;
#P fasten 14 0 54 0 342 212 10 212;
#P connect 9 0 54 0;
#P connect 52 0 48 0;
#P connect 48 0 49 0;
#P connect 49 0 8 0;
#P connect 8 0 7 0;
#P connect 7 0 51 1;
#P connect 55 0 8 1;
#P fasten 54 0 59 0 10 420 194 420;
#P connect 59 0 17 0;
#P connect 17 0 18 0;
#P connect 18 0 30 0;
#P connect 30 0 64 0;
#P connect 64 0 62 0;
#P connect 63 0 31 0;
#P connect 31 0 59 1;
#P fasten 54 1 20 0 25 333 310 333 310 387 321 387;
#P connect 56 0 20 0;
#P connect 20 0 27 0;
#P connect 27 0 18 1;
#P fasten 51 1 13 0 56 161 342 161;
#P connect 13 0 14 0;
#P connect 22 0 20 1;
#P connect 24 0 20 2;
#P connect 26 0 20 3;
#P connect 58 0 20 4;
#P fasten 53 0 72 0 148 38 646 38;
#P lcolor 9;
#P connect 72 0 71 0;
#P fasten 62 0 61 0 194 593 622 593 622 211 692 211;
#P connect 61 0 60 0;
#P connect 60 0 39 0;
#P fasten 40 0 37 0 718 296 692 296;
#P connect 39 0 37 0;
#P connect 37 0 36 0;
#P connect 36 0 38 0;
#P connect 38 0 71 1;
#P connect 71 1 66 0;
#P connect 66 0 57 0;
#P connect 57 0 43 0;
#P connect 43 0 45 0;
#P fasten 71 0 68 0 646 556 692 556;
#P connect 45 0 68 0;
#P fasten 49 1 50 0 96 610 692 610;
#P lcolor 7;
#P fasten 62 1 50 0 223 605 692 605;
#P lcolor 7;
#P fasten 54 2 50 0 40 614 692 614;
#P lcolor 7;
#P fasten 66 1 50 0 743 602 692 602;
#P lcolor 7;
#P connect 68 0 50 0;
#P connect 50 0 69 0;
#P connect 65 0 61 1;
#P connect 60 1 40 0;
#P connect 67 0 44 0;
#P connect 44 0 57 1;
#P pop;
#P newobj 43 209 348 196617 p bcr2000 setup;
#P window linecount 2;
#P comment 105 155 42 196617 enc/btn number;
#P hidden connect 35 0 34 0;
#P hidden connect 34 0 24 0;
#P fasten 3 0 1 0 28 204 48 204;
#P fasten 12 1 13 0 104 357 48 357;
#P lcolor 1;
#P connect 1 0 13 0;
#P hidden connect 35 0 26 0;
#P connect 14 0 11 0;
#P connect 11 0 10 0;
#P connect 10 0 12 0;
#P fasten 24 0 1 1 42 200 81 200;
#P hidden connect 26 0 4 0;
#P connect 4 0 1 2;
#P hidden connect 35 0 27 0;
#P hidden connect 27 0 20 0;
#P connect 20 1 1 3;
#P hidden connect 35 0 29 0;
#P hidden connect 29 0 2 0;
#P hidden connect 35 0 30 0;
#P fasten 2 0 1 5 197 206 213 206;
#P hidden connect 35 0 31 0;
#P hidden connect 30 0 5 0;
#P fasten 5 0 1 6 239 206 246 206;
#P hidden connect 35 0 28 0;
#P hidden connect 28 0 17 0;
#P hidden connect 31 0 6 0;
#P connect 6 0 1 7;
#P hidden connect 35 0 33 0;
#P fasten 15 0 1 8 371 145 312 145;
#P connect 17 1 1 8;
#P hidden connect 35 0 32 0;
#P hidden connect 32 0 19 0;
#P hidden connect 33 0 9 0;
#P connect 9 0 1 9;
#P hidden connect 33 0 16 0;
#P connect 16 0 15 0;
#P connect 19 1 1 10;
#P window clipboard copycount 36;

#84491
Oct 2, 2006 at 7:24am

I finally got a response for Behringer support. They won’t explain
the sysex protocol for the BCR2000 :{. Oh well.

wes

#84492
Oct 3, 2006 at 9:17am

Hi Wes,

I remember that patch had some silly bug somewhere, but it worked generally.
I won’t be near my dear bcr2000 in next two weeks, so can’t check it out at
the moment.

I got sysex data by using birdie’s bcr edit software, wich sent data to
midiox app(or maybe to max’s capture) through midi yoke. Tell me if you need
more info on this.

I really need to finish the patch you found as soon as possible, because I
want to (re)store all my settings through pattr in all my performance
patches, avoiding separate presets on the bcr itself. If anyone else has
something for adjusting bcr from max, please
chime in.

best,
nesa

#84493
Oct 4, 2006 at 6:01am

Wesley Smith wrote:
> Alright, so I’ve got Nesa’s patch doing something. It talks to the
> proper encoder, but I’m not getting it to behave like the settings
> should make it behave. When I send it the settings:
>
> knob, 42, NRPN, ccpar 9, min 0, max 1046, absolute/14, show value on,
> 1dot, increment 1, I get instead
>
> knob, 42, SPC, [no channel], [nor ccpar], [no min], [no max], 1dot, on
>
> Has anyone used this patch successfully? Here’s the version I’m working
> with.

But as I understand from the web info on the BCR 2000, its an endless
encoder box. Why the hell would you want to bother to do the calculation
within the BCR, flood the Midi cable with long Midi messages instead of
using increment and decrement settings. Each tick would be one or two
Midi bytes instead of 4 NRPN or 10 (at least) Sysex bytes. Then within
your patch you can easily define the resolution you want… (up to 32-bit)
My way to setup faderboxes is always the same: I take the manual, choose
the one and only usefull setting for its lifetime and trash the manual
(not realy ;-).
For the use with max the programmability of a faderbox is nothing you
would ever want to deal with, unless its initial setup is unintuitive,
which is likely when it comes out of the box…

I have a bunch of flavors to decode endless encoders in my St.ools and
abhaXions: St.Dialin, dialin, dtlin… Just hack them and enjoy the
principle of endless encoders set to Midi inc/dec.

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#84494
Oct 4, 2006 at 6:14am

Good point. BTW I love the name of your objects:
> I have a bunch of flavors to decode endless encoders in my St.ools

wes

#84495
Oct 4, 2006 at 7:49pm

> I have a bunch of flavors to decode endless encoders in my St.ools and
> abhaXions: St.Dialin, dialin, dtlin… Just hack them and enjoy the
> principle of endless encoders set to Midi inc/dec.
>

Hi Stefan, I’m only seeing St.Dialin in the St.ools and abhaXions archive. Where is dialin and dtlin, etc.? Is there a generic MIDI inc/dec. to n-bit converter?

thanks!

#84496
Oct 6, 2006 at 8:23pm

matt wrote:
> Hi Stefan, I’m only seeing St.Dialin in the St.ools and abhaXions
> archive. Where is dialin and dtlin, etc.? Is there a generic MIDI
> inc/dec. to n-bit converter?

I am not sure when I last updated to cyclings share page, because they
seem not to be able to receive attachments exceeding a certain size. I
can send you an actual version if you want, I am working on setting up
another space for hosting them….
They grow actually almost very day, can’t keep up with documentation,
some have only rudimentary help files, but feel free to ask…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#84497

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