Forums > MaxMSP

Best OSC connection between max and Lemur?

July 17, 2013 | 12:38 pm

Unfortunately, Mira is not quite where I need it to be for my setup. So, I am going back to Lemur. Did anyone find out a way to connect the iPad to a PC (Mac pro in my case) without using an ad-hoc connection (hey, it is 2013 and I need the internet at all times …)? In my setup I switch tracks in my DAW and upon track change a lot of gui items have to be updated (hidden, renamed, menu items changes, etc.). It works all, but the more OSC messages I send at the same time, the more data gets lost. If it were some value chages of a fader, there wouldn’t be so much of a problem for me … but when you update a menu or a couple of names on pads and only the first 4 names get transmitted, it really sucks! ;-)
This must be due to wifi connection. The only other possible explanation left would be my old iPad 1, but I don’t think that is the bottle neck here, as other people described the same problems.

I have read different theories about how to make it work better:

- separate wifi router for the iPad
- MyWi USB tethering (I have it, but it doesn’t work – shows 0 connections …)
- getting a newer iPad (I am on iPad 1, but I don’t know if that will solve any of these issues)
- using fixed IP adresses

I am anything, but a network guru, so I would highly appreciate any advice on how you guys made it work.


July 18, 2013 | 6:44 am

I’m curious about this as well. I’ve gotten mywifi to work, but it drops out from time to time. a wired network connection to the ipad would be great, for charging, latency etc! any other ideas?


July 18, 2013 | 7:49 am

connect to a wireless router is my best bet – I do know that the wifi on the ipad 1 isn’t all that great, so having something stable that that would help I think.

You still can’t wire the ipad. I mean, for charging there’s still no-one preventing you from hooking it up and using the wifi.

friflo, could you make a simple test setup where you transmit item names to a menu on the lemur for instance, where it drops out? I do rather heavy stuff on my ipad2 (video fed directly to Pads, for example) and I don’t have the issues you mention, so some troubleshooting might be in order?


July 18, 2013 | 7:50 am

oh, and yes fixed ip is a good idea, no matter what. It also saves you a lot of setup issues.


July 18, 2013 | 11:35 am

Thank you. I guess I need to explain what i meant with wifi via cable. There is this app called Mywi from cydia which I purchased. It can create a tethered network connection between iPad an PC. Only because Apple doesn’t offer that feature I did a jailbreak on my iPad …
Unfortunately, it did not work with my 10.6 OS X, so I took that occasion to update and now it works! Also, I ordered the latest iPad. Let’s see what difference it makes …
I will report back, as soon as I did some testing.


July 18, 2013 | 2:01 pm

I’d be really curious to know if USB tethering really functions and how much it reduces the latency. The lack of support from Apple for wired IP connections is really a stupid restriction.


July 21, 2013 | 5:25 am

It will take me some time to test these things as I have more urgent matters to handle ATM. Stay tuned, though!


July 21, 2013 | 6:28 am

myWi is super stable and reliable, really plug’n'play, you iDevice always has the same IP, no need to mess with ad-hoc network or Wifi router, latency is much lower, bandwidth much higher (didn’t measured it precisely, when I say much, it’s MUCH !), works fine with USB extension cable (I use it all the time with a 12 meters cable), works with multiple devices connected to the same computer…
I just can’t Live(9) without it !
:-)

It’s really a shame that apple doesn’t authorize it :-(
I keep my iPads jai broken only for MyWi !

…unfortunately, Mira doesn’t work with MyWi for the moment.. (as it seems to wait for a valid wifi network before connecting to the computer..)

Mathieu


July 21, 2013 | 6:31 am

Do you use Lemur and OSC with it?


July 21, 2013 | 7:18 am

I use Lemur (OSC+MIDI) and Fantastick with MyWi.


July 21, 2013 | 2:20 pm

Good to know. I’ll include that in my testing …


July 22, 2013 | 9:14 am

Always make sure that you have your IO buffers set to large values in udpsend and receive. It’s detailed in the help patchers for those objects.

In my experience encrypted networks work slower for UDP, I always use unencrypted with MAC address access rules.Maybe that will help

Mira is a new product and we’re really interested in getting feedback so we can move it along – what do you mean by "it’s not quite where I need it to be"?

-A


July 22, 2013 | 2:40 pm

Thanks, Andrew! I will explain, where I need Mira to be to replace Lemur for me:
1) umenu
2) replacement (not hack) for Multi trigger and multi pad object where you can individually and dynamically change the names and size of the pads

that’s it and I think it could replace Lemur for my purposes … probably some more things as soon as I have worked more with it, but that is the essence.


July 22, 2013 | 3:54 pm

If you don’t mind me chiming in, Andrew, I think you *could* win over a lot of Lemur users by implementing lemur-like object support.

One thing that I’d personally need is flexible grids of buttons.

I more often than not use Lemur Pads like a 16*16 jit.window that I can push. Hell, gimme a way to put low-res video on it with a multitouch overlay, and I’m *sold* *sold* *sold*.

Barring that, live.step with all the trimmings :)


July 22, 2013 | 3:55 pm

umenu is working here on my PC.

For the 2nd, are you talking about something which requires patcher scripting? I understand a hack is not the answer, but maybe it would help us understand the question.

-A


July 22, 2013 | 5:33 pm

andrew – do you mean umenu is working in mira? Mira is mac only currently – correct? I too am a heavy lemur user and miss the way multipad and multiswitch works there. Still, I think Mira is a strong first release and am enjoying using it!


July 22, 2013 | 6:09 pm

With 2) I meant one (or maybe two different) objects, that are as usable on a multitouch device as "Pads" and "Switches" from lemur:

http://liine.net/en/products/lemur/objects

I think the problem here is that normal max objects were designed for either mouse control and/or midi/OSC reaction. Mira brings live-control via iPad on the table, hence some new objects or modifications of old ones need to be implemented.
For faders and dials everything works well, as far as I can tell. But I couldn’t find any easy alternative for a multi switch/pad object.


July 22, 2013 | 6:11 pm

And I am puzzled, too: What do you mean by umenu is working here on my PC? Do you mean, you have a new beta and umenu is integrated for the next version? That’s good news, as it would also imply you already got a working version for max PC … :-)


July 22, 2013 | 7:03 pm

Yeah, this was my slimey way of saying that we have umenu working and we have beta PC support. Internal for now, but we hope to bring it really soon.

We want to engage users, so keep letting us know.

Thanks for the clue about the pads and switches. We’ll look at it

-A


July 22, 2013 | 7:19 pm

That sounds great – especially for PC users!
If you want to get a little more detail on what I miss in the live.tabs, have a look at this thread:

http://cycling74.com/forums/topic/how-do-i-get-live-tabs-to-have-a-good-size/


July 22, 2013 | 7:26 pm

I posted this up in another thread with a little more detail, but it is my belief that (either) the iPad or Lemur does not actively listen for packets when it’s sitting idly. Scripting a "ping" abstraction that sends a few messages, expects a response, and only sends the necessary Live data once those responses are received has helped substantially in not losing packets between my MaxForLive device and the Lemur.


July 22, 2013 | 7:39 pm

@friflo

Thanks for that

@matpec

Yes – I have noticed a kind of "sleepiness" in ipads as far as UDP traffic goes, I have not been able to put my finger on it exactly though. If you have any insights, please forward them on

-A


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