Forums > MaxMSP

circuit bending mimesis patch??

June 7, 2008 | 1:54 pm

hi there
does anybody have idea to realize a patch who can imitate these sort of random glitchy analog sounds we can get with circuit bending stuff??

i guess cycle~ , rect~ will be the start but i am so lame with these type of objects….
if you can point me in the right direction or have work already done you want share, you are welcome.

GRACIAS


June 7, 2008 | 4:48 pm

freeka skrev:
> hi there
> does anybody have idea to realize a patch who can imitate these sort of random glitchy analog sounds we can get with circuit bending stuff??
I distinctly remember coming across a "circuitbent max patch" once, but
I can’t find it. Maybe google around for a bit.

I just played around a bit and came up with this one, which sounds
gritty enough for my needs ;)

andreas.

– Pasted Max Patch, click to expand. –

June 8, 2008 | 6:48 pm

check out kyle buza’s brilliant collection of "chiptune" objects. hours if not years of fun to be had there…

http://www.mmonoplayer.com/


June 8, 2008 | 6:51 pm

cool patch by the way andreas


June 9, 2008 | 8:45 am

Recently started experimenting with instable feedback networks in max. Among others, something like:

– Pasted Max Patch, click to expand. –

_
johan


June 9, 2008 | 4:53 pm

Theres two main types of circuit bent sounds that Ive encountered through bending, one of them is a sample ram based bend, these are the most common, like the SK series samplers, yamaha vss30, and tons of little voice toys that typically only have 1 or two bends (usually pitch and some kind of distortion). The SK1 and yamaha vss30 have my favorite bends, basically they have these large ram chips for the sample voice, and you can hook together different pins on the chip to scramble the sample, often this sounds like a combination of some sort of downsampled lowfi distortion, which could be achieved with degrade~ (I think its called that, theres also downsample) a stutter repetition similar to stutter~ specifically the way its implimented in fragulator pluggo, with a sort of repeat 4 times, sample, repeat 4 times, sample.. etc. Theres also often t his sort of wave simplification, as if it adds a tuned saw or square oscillator thats grinding in with the audio, not really modulating it, somehow interweaved in a strange and very specific to circuit bending way. ive heard similarly gritty sounds from /~ a wave from something. I would add a tanh~ at the end to soft clip everything.

The other method ive used is bending with oscillator chips, my favorites are the 556 dual timer circuit that alot of people use to make the atari punk console, this thing can do things that you just cant do with computers, it gets the most insane feedback madness squirbley skippey out of control organic sounds. I think you could achive something somewhat similar through alot of feedback FM, resonant filtering. think Jomox resonator neuronium

The best thing is to combine the two. I usually wire parts of my oscillator creations into the sampelr chips of my vss and sk1 and then it all goes totally insane, especially the sequencer on the vss, it starts becoming intelligent and organic, totally mindblowing.

Ill try making a patch in a bit. If your interested, Ive posted some links on the forum to a few of my circuit bent jams, if you would like reference to some of the tones they get.

http://www.axiom-crux.net/music/000/circuit_bent/stilts.mp3
http://www.axiom-crux.net/music/000/circuit_bent/KAMMMZA.mp3

http://www.axiom-crux.net/music/000/circuit_bent/happy%20birthday%20otto.mp3

These are all 100% direct line recordings of the sk1 and my oscillator scrambler, and most of them im not even doing anything, just recording and watching it drive itself insane.


June 9, 2008 | 4:55 pm

another way to get nice grit is low pass filter with audio rate saw fming the filter freq, little bit of resonance, can get some great grit on the bass tones.


June 9, 2008 | 5:33 pm

axiom-crux those recordings are amazing, makes me want to shutdown the laptop and start soldering… I’d love to see how you approach glitch in your max patching.


June 9, 2008 | 6:09 pm

hey guys,
thanks all for your replies and all the examples you posted!

i think now i got here some keys to do what i need :)
basically what i am looking for is to use a voice to do some sort of digital circuit bending and voice processing via max (more turned to the noise and choppy sounds) so i’m actually not really interested into the chiptunes and beat concept but yes of course the start will be the same i guess…

and yes please Axiom-Crux i would love to see a patch!


June 9, 2008 | 6:15 pm

jvkr skrev:
> Recently started experimenting with instable feedback networks in max. Among others, something like:
>
> ———-begin_max5_patcher———-
Very Cool!
And, in the spirit of bending, here’s my take on that, with a few extra
mods in there.

Andreas.

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———–end_max5_patcher———–

This post seems to contain a broken pasted patch. This can happen if you don’t copy the entire "———-begin_max5_patcher———-" or "———–end_max5_patcher———–" for each and every patch you paste; perhaps you missed a preceding or trailing "-" when you copied the patch? Please notify the Cycling 74 web team if you think it is a bug.


June 9, 2008 | 11:41 pm

Thanks kevin, I highly recommend getting an sk1, I found one in a thrift store for a couple dollars, and it was in great condition, that night I opened it up and looked up a bit of info online as to what places were good to bend, and had the time of my life. I cant tell you how fascinating of an experience circuit bending is. In contrast to patching in max or using a softsynth to create interesting sound designs, typically you experiment, but especially with max you have to know what objects do to even get something working. With bending your actually fully experimenting and free to do almost any connections you like, and lots of them will produce fascinating sounds, and when they are combined with other things as Ive done in some of these mp3s things can get exponentially crazier and start taking on a life of their own, plenty of times my jaw has dropped as I notice a connection I just made or a potentiometer I adjusted just caused some kind of alien Frankenstein monster to take life, and I can just watch it as it organically starts to grow and morph. Ive had similar experiences making generative patches in max, but the organic nature of electricity can create such chaotic situations, alot of it is in subtle tweaking of potentiometers, sometimes you will hit some exact spot on the dial where the electricity has to jump to form a connection, and loads of capacitors all over the place will be charging and discharging at different speeds, and this delicate edge can ride out for a while. In other words, try it, its a total blast!!!

what is this homo less mp3? this sounds a bit like some of the feedback oscillator bent stuff I am doing


June 10, 2008 | 2:50 am

cool. i’ve done some analog circuit bending myself and i definetly agree it is loads of fun and yields some truly unique results. i think it’s interesting to think about and weigh these two paradigms – the max approach to glitch and the analog circuit bending approach, not in terms of their sonic qualites (the "analog is better" conversation is getting old) but more in terms of just how they compare as generative musical systems. how can computer programs can be written to have such a rich and complex behavoir? I’m a big fan of patches that try to emulate the circuit bending model – building some complex system that has the capacity to be "misused" to surf unstable and unpredictable states – as i find it to be pretty difficult to well do in programming, but of course, not impossible. I’ve seen some great examples in reaktor where it seems more people really spend a lot time building synths and working with the basics but few in max/msp. i really like patches like andreas’ and i like the "unstable noise-maker" paradigm in max in general, mainly just because i feel that computer music projects are so often about getting the program to perform some very specific fancy thing and with absolute certainty/reliability. although these programs form really powerful little applications and make for great program notes/dissertations, they aren’t always the best thing for just spontaneoulsy generating and controlling musical sound as one does with an acoustic instrument. In any case, what i’m saying is that i like the idea of simple, idiosyncratic and wiley generative patches and i think they have an important place next to the timing-oriented, or control-oriented, or midi-oriented, or electroacoustic processing-dsp-oriented patches that, it seems to me, most max/msp programmers concern themselves with developing. So let’s keep this conversation going and try to keep sharing some patches. cheerio,


June 10, 2008 | 5:09 pm

I think another thing that I haven’t yet gotten to explore but have been planning, is to get something like an arduino and hook it into some chaotic circuits and the sk1, and have max controlling these, then the audio can be fed back into max and sampled into bufferes or processed with interesting fft and digital only effects.

I started on a patch to replicate some of the sounds from the main sk1 bends, Ill post when I get happy with it.


June 10, 2008 | 5:23 pm

hey Kevin
i totally agree with the way you think.
"I’ve seen some great examples in reaktor" in this subject the skrewell ensemble is a good example of circuit bending sort of..
Axiom-Crux, the homoless mp3 was a silly circuit bended zoom pedal effect :)

afterward the 37 radio1.mp3 example is easy to realize with an adc~ going thru a degrade~ into a record~ object and then just do some groove~ pitch and stutter~..

but yea definately keep this conversation and experimentation going!

merci!


June 11, 2008 | 3:08 am

>Very Cool!
>And, in the spirit of bending, here’s my take on that, with a few >extra mods in there.

>Andreas.

this patch is screwing my dac, it just goes click, no more sound. crashes one of my computers, both of which are ppc macs (not wealthy enough to buy new computers)
what system are you running that allows continuous sound from this patch?


June 11, 2008 | 12:39 pm

I can confirm that it’s crashing my G4 TiBook, but not my Intel iMac.
Usually dac~ blowups can be traced to a feedback loop; check filters and delays – anything that will accept a ‘clear’ message in fact. If sending the message fixes the blowup, even for a second, then that’s probably your man.
Putting a limi~ in the feedback path usually sorts things, but there doesn’t appear to be a limi~ in Max5, and copying the old one from my Max 4.x folder gives me an ‘unknown external object type’ message.

Incidentally, I was hoping to check this on another PPC machine (a G5) whose Max5 authorisation had expired. Unfortunately Max Runtime doesn’t have a ‘New from clipboard’ command; any reason why that couldn’t be implemented in future…?
I tried pasting it into a text file and giving it a ‘maxpat’ extension, but presumably the compressed text format doesn’t work this way<
cheers
roger


June 11, 2008 | 1:53 pm

that is ..weird.
I thought the dac~ did what is essentially [clip~ -1 1] ?

Alternatively, would it help if one was shoved in there? Obviously the
patch is meant to go "wrong", but not THAT wrong, hehe.

roger.carruthers skrev:
> I can confirm that it’s crashing my G4 TiBook, but not my Intel iMac.
> Usually dac~ blowups can be traced to a feedback loop; check filters and delays – anything that will accept a ‘clear’ message in fact. If sending the message fixes the blowup, even for a second, then that’s probably your man.
> Putting a limi~ in the feedback path usually sorts things, but there doesn’t appear to be a limi~ in Max5, and copying the old one from my Max 4.x folder gives me an ‘unknown external object type’ message.
>
> Incidentally, I was hoping to check this on another PPC machine (a G5) whose Max5 authorisation had expired. Unfortunately Max Runtime doesn’t have a ‘New from clipboard’ command; any reason why that couldn’t be implemented in future…?
> I tried pasting it into a text file and giving it a ‘maxpat’ extension, but presumably the compressed text format doesn’t work this way<
> cheers
> roger
>
> .
>
>


June 11, 2008 | 2:35 pm

On 11 juin 08, at 15:53, Andreas Wetterberg wrote:

> that is ..weird.
> I thought the dac~ did what is essentially [clip~ -1 1] ?

In Max 5, the dac~/ezdac~ objects clip the signal between -1 and 1. It
wasn’t the case before, which could cause some weirdness.

ej


June 11, 2008 | 2:50 pm

oh well , this explain a lot!!!
after the switching to max5 my usual setting on the mixer with different max outputs was totally strange..


June 11, 2008 | 6:44 pm

Thanks for the clarification, Emmanuel,

do you have any idea what’s causing the crashes now, if it’s not the
choking of the dac~?

andreas.

Emmanuel Jourdan skrev:
> On 11 juin 08, at 15:53, Andreas Wetterberg wrote:
>
>> that is ..weird.
>> I thought the dac~ did what is essentially [clip~ -1 1] ?
>
> In Max 5, the dac~/ezdac~ objects clip the signal between -1 and 1. It
> wasn’t the case before, which could cause some weirdness.
>
> ej
>


June 11, 2008 | 9:54 pm

>
> do you have any idea what’s causing the crashes now, if it’s not the
> choking of the dac~?

Deploying the minmax~ object I realize that some filters can produce extremely huge numbers. Clipping them to say -25 and 25 might bring some relieve.

In the meantime I’m having some interesting results by feeding the result of a lookup~ into itself. The buffer that lookup refers to is basically a scrambled ramp function [-1, 1].

_
johan


June 11, 2008 | 11:12 pm

June 12, 2008 | 4:56 pm

jvkr, Id be curious to see that

also something Ive taken to lately is adding a tanh~ after areas that might clip, especially with bass heavy things this adds a great warm distortion without hard clipping digital nastyness.


July 5, 2009 | 4:57 pm
Quote:
http://www.axiom-crux.net/music/000/circuit_bent/stilts.mp3
http://www.axiom-crux.net/music/000/circuit_bent/KAMMMZA.mp3
http://www.axiom-crux.net/music/000/circuit_bent/happy%20birthday%20otto.mp3"

Axiom-Crux, your tracks are awesome!

Quote:
"Ill try making a patch in a bit. If your interested, Ive posted some links on the forum to a few of my circuit bent jams, if you would like reference to some of the tones they get.

I’d really really really like it!


July 5, 2009 | 7:28 pm

supposedly "glitch" is something which came up
1995, right after "phat" stopped beeing cool, right?

but what does it mean?

and why not make something new instead? it is 2009!

-110


July 5, 2009 | 8:15 pm
Quote:
and why not make something new instead? it is 2009!

NEW? Please, tell me what can be called new?

Boris Vian said "Tout a été dit 100 fois", and it was in the 60′s…


July 5, 2009 | 9:09 pm
lotan wrote on Sun, 05 July 2009 22:15
Quote:
and why not make something new instead? it is 2009!

NEW? Please, tell me what can be called new?

lets see … after "hip", "phat", and "glitchy", i would
propose that we invent "knurky" as the next big thing
which everyone wants to copycreate, sell his records or
promote his music software with.

"the most knurkiest garageband pro ever"

"HELP!!! HOW I TO MAKE KNURKY SOUND LIKE KNURKY ARTIST???"

-110


July 6, 2009 | 4:01 pm
Quote:
after "hip", "phat", and "glitchy", i would
propose that we invent "knurky" as the next big thing
which everyone wants to copycreate, sell his records or
promote his music software with.

This is how it works dear, so… Create Knurky! Be the first Knurky artist! Sell Knurky music! Sell Knurky software! Make money! Be happy!


July 22, 2011 | 4:27 am

What’s the progress on this? Anyone got Knurk yet?


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