Jan Jeffer

I am having problems with clicks when using the forwardreverse and random dice playback function. The SPL often jumps to the middle of a wave/transient causing an inevitable click.

The problem seems to be caused by the transients in the file not matching the slice points. I can minimize the problem by nudging the sample slightly but this is less than ideal.

Additional the x-fade function doesn't seem to make a difference. Is there anythin that can be done?

PS I am currently using the demo version of the software if that makes any difference to it's functionality.

I am having problems with clicks when using the forwardreverse and random dice playback function. The SPL often jumps to the middle of a wave/transient causing an inevitable click. 

Additional the x-fade function doesn't seem to make a difference. Is there anythin that can be done? 

cliks-when-looping

>I am having problems with clicks when using the forwardreverse 

>and random dice playback function. The SPL often jumps to the middle 

>of a wave/transient causing an inevitable click.

>The problem seems to be caused by the transients in the file not 

>matching the slice points. I can minimize the problem by nudging the 

>sample slightly but this is less than ideal.

>Additional the x-fade function doesn't seem to make a difference. Is 

>PS I am currently using the demo version of the software if that 

>makes any difference to it's functionality.

The click isn't a bug - as a general approach, radiaL is specifically intended

to celebrate those discontinuities, as opposed to a program that smooths

or timestretches, etc.. That may not necessarily mix well with your 

all the clouds turn to words / all the words float in sequence / no 

they mean / everyone just ignores them // Gregory Taylor 

>Hi,
>
>I am having problems with clicks when using the forwardreverse 
>and random dice playback function. The SPL often jumps to the middle 
>of a wave/transient causing an inevitable click.
>
>The problem seems to be caused by the transients in the file not 
>matching the slice points. I can minimize the problem by nudging the 
>sample slightly but this is less than ideal.
>
>Additional the x-fade function doesn't seem to make a difference. Is 
>there anythin that can be done?
>
>PS I am currently using the demo version of the software if that 
>makes any difference to it's functionality.

The click isn't a bug - as a general approach, radiaL is specifically intended
to celebrate those discontinuities, as opposed to a program that smooths
or timestretches, etc.. That may not necessarily mix well with your 
aesthetic, but
it was/is a mindful decision.

all the clouds turn to words / all the words float in sequence / no 
one knows what
they mean / everyone just ignores them // Gregory Taylor http://www.rtqe.net


I myself see this as very much a 'feature'. Some of these threads are a bit old but as of 2008, 'clicks' are very much a compositional aspect (as in Christopher Willits music). An acquired taste? perhaps but certainly something I am digging about radiaL ;-)

Strange, forum refused my edit to above so I'll add it here:

...An acquired taste? Perhaps, but certainly something I am digging about radiaL , you can hear the 'folding of time' much more definitively, they give a unique percussive character (especially with 'pad' material which has a lot of non-zero crossings in the wave). Also makes me think of the 'Hammond' percussion click, now an important staple of that instrument's total repertoire ;-)

I think the whole idea of using glitches and clicks is pretty interesting and I like alot of the music in this scene but it doesn't mean I want to use this technique/asthetic quality all the time.

One of my favourite 'tricks' with radial is to take an instrument sample (say a harp) set the slices to a low value (say three or four) and play it back using playback at a low speed. You get a really warped, mushy and beautiful texture that I feel is marred by the occasional (not necessarily rhythmic) clicks.

Also when composing using headphones these clicks really begin to hurt my ears!

I love radial and the way it encourages an algorithmic exploration of the soundfiles and think that it rains on the likes of ableton from quite a height. I feel, however, that it would be a lot more versatile program and one that I would pay for and use in live performance if it had some kind of envelope follower or crossfade looping features which are pretty standard to most sampling software.

I know this probably sounds a bit picky but it is really standing in my way of using this software as my main performance tool. I am increasingly beginning to think that I will need to develop my own perfromance patch in the likes of MAX/MSP or Supercollider bit I lack the know how and want to perform NOW and not when I master a new programming language (in about 20 years;)

I think the whole idea of using glitches and clicks is pretty interesting and I like alot of the music in this scene but it doesn't mean I want to use this technique/asthetic quality all the time. 

One of my favourite 'tricks' with radial is to take an instrument sample (say a harp) set the slices to a low value (say three or four) and play it back using  playback at a low speed. You get a really warped, mushy and beautiful texture that I feel is marred by the occasional (not necessarily rhythmic) clicks. 

I love radial and the way it encourages an algorithmic exploration of the soundfiles and think that it rains on the likes of ableton from quite a height. I feel, however, that it would be a lot more versatile program and one that I would pay for and use in live performance if it had some kind of envelope follower or crossfade looping features which are pretty standard to most sampling software. 

I know this probably sounds a bit picky but it is really standing in my way of using this software as my main performance tool. I am increasingly beginning to think that I will need to develop my own perfromance patch in the likes of MAX/MSP or Supercollider bit I lack the know how and want to perform NOW and not when I master a new programming language (in about 20 years;)  

Just had a listen to Christopher Willitus (colours shifting, the first track on his site). Very nice. The clicks sound great on the cut-up guitar and most defenitley add a rhythmic dimension to the piece. However, if these clicks were on all of the layers (like the vocal, pad, drums etc) they would be less effective, which is most likely to be the reason why they are not there. This makes it an asethetic choice which I feel should be in the hands of the composer rather than the software.

I also think the clicks need to be controllable in a (at least) semi-predictable way in order for them to be useful as a rhythm tracks. Although, I can see the merits of using computers to create random chance music, it is important to maintain some level of human control, for me anyway.

Just had a listen to Christopher Willitus (colours shifting, the first track on his site). Very nice. The clicks sound great on the cut-up guitar and most defenitley add a rhythmic dimension to the piece. However, if these clicks were on all of the layers (like the vocal, pad, drums etc) they would be less effective, which is most likely to be the reason why they are not there. This makes it an asethetic choice which I feel should be in the hands of the composer rather than the software. 

Hey I've been thinking about getting radial, but now this thread is making me doubt that I actually want it. What is the cause of these clicks? Is it a sudden change in frequency or amplitude? Could this not be fixed through the use of something like a line~ object which would smooth the transition? I don't know much about radial, but I figured you would be able to alter certain functions of it as if it were a patch. At the same time I'm pretty new to Max so this might be a naive assumption.

And if this is something that you can't change and just have to deal with in hopes that others will value it for esoteric appeal, I'm with burnt fingers. It's much easier to buy other software that doesn't create this problem then to rent out studio time in order to master your music to the point that the clicks are gone. Too much in electronic music today revolves around sound quality, especially within genres I would think that radial users are making.

Sounds to me as if it is not the tool for you.

The clicks aren't bugs or mistakes.They are deliberate. Try the demo.

One possibility for incorporating clickless slowdowns would be to use a pluggo plugin, or some other plug like the awesome phatmatik pro from Izotope.

Can anyone from Cycling 74 tell me when we are going to see a stable version of Radial for Intel. As a long time user and fan, and now needing to work with it under demanding conditions (3-4 hour sessions, where the beta will crash 3 or 4 times during that period) I'm getting worried that my tool of choice is never going to be updated.

So much so, that I've even taken the drastic step of enrolling on a Max/MSP beginners course (!!!) which I swore I would never do.

Can anyone from Cycling 74 tell me when we are going to see a stable version of Radial for Intel. As a long time user and fan, and now needing to work with it under demanding conditions (3-4 hour sessions, where the beta will crash 3 or 4 times during that period) I'm getting worried that my tool of choice is never going to be updated. 

So much so, that I've even taken the drastic step of enrolling on a Max/MSP beginners course (!!!) which I swore I would never do. 

www.josephyoung.co.uk
www.fieldrecording.org.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Pask 

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:08:18 
Subject: [radiaL] Re: Cliks when looping

For my part, I have other app's to do similar things (without the clicks) but after thoroughly trying the demo I was simply sold on what Radial did and was well aware that I had probably come in towards the end of it's 'life'. Still working on a PPC machine, I got it for what it could do right now for me, clicks and all! and enjoy it's unique way of working and output, so I had no other expectations/needs beyond what it already did when I bought it and continue to enjoy it's 'special' abilities.

Obviously a personal choice for each of us (and apparently a less than desirebly situation for Intel users)and another reason I will stay with PPC (at least for a secondary machine) for a while longer.

Good luck in that Max class, and if you come up with anything I am always 'in the market' for looping software :)

For my part, I have other app's to do similar things (without the clicks) but after thoroughly trying the demo I was simply sold on what Radial did and was well aware that I had probably come in towards the end of it's 'life'. Still working on a PPC machine, I got it for what it could do right now for me, clicks and all! and enjoy it's unique way of working and output, so I had no other expectations/needs beyond what it already did when I bought it and continue to enjoy it's 'special' abilities. 

Good luck in that Max class, and if you come up with anything I am always 'in the market' for looping software :)


We're not having stability problems with the Intel version of radiaL.

If you get crashes - please send us in details of how it is crashing, and include crash logs. That way we might have a chance of fixing what you are seeing.

I'm not aware of any performance degradation in the UB version. I think it's actually working a bit better.