Forums > MaxMSP

Converting old Max patches..

March 14, 2008 | 5:11 pm

Hi all!!

i recently got the old winkler book (1998) which has a few old max patches. unfortunately theyre for Mac, so i was wondering if it was possible to (batch) convert these for use on PC? or any other method possible to use them on PC?

thanks loads!
rory


March 14, 2008 | 5:43 pm

This is not easy since newer versions of Max will not open these files.
I’ve kept an old version of Max 3.0 around for this purpose. It’s a real
kludge because it runs as an OS9 app on a PPC. It does convert patches from
old format to new. No batch mode.

On 3/14/08 1:11 PM, "chrome-metronome" wrote:

>
> Hi all!!
>
> i recently got the old winkler book (1998) which has a few old max patches.
> unfortunately theyre for Mac, so i was wondering if it was possible to (batch)
> convert these for use on PC? or any other method possible to use them on PC?
>
> thanks loads!
> rory

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson


March 14, 2008 | 5:54 pm

If you’re talking only about patches, and not externals/objects, they
should be cross-platform compatible, shouldn’t they?

On Mar 14, 2008, at 11:11 AM, chrome-metronome wrote:

>
> Hi all!!
>
> i recently got the old winkler book (1998) which has a few old max
> patches. unfortunately theyre for Mac, so i was wondering if it was
> possible to (batch) convert these for use on PC? or any other
> method possible to use them on PC?

—-
Steven M. Miller
Professor, Contemporary Music Program
College of Santa Fe

Home < http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill>
SFIFEM <
http://sfifem.csf.edu>
Atrium Sound Space <
http://atrium.csf.edu>
OVOS <
http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill/ovos.html>
CMP <
http://www.csf.edu/academics/contemporary_music/>


March 14, 2008 | 5:58 pm

On 14 mars 08, at 18:11, chrome-metronome wrote:

> i recently got the old winkler book (1998) which has a few old max
> patches. unfortunately theyre for Mac, so i was wondering if it was
> possible to (batch) convert these for use on PC? or any other method
> possible to use them on PC?

They should be more or less compatible (the less part depends on what
object you use), as long as you put an extension to the files.

HTH,
ej


March 14, 2008 | 6:27 pm

On Mar 14, 2008, at 10:11 AM, chrome-metronome wrote:

> i recently got the old winkler book (1998) which has a few old max
> patches. unfortunately theyre for Mac, so i was wondering if it was
> possible to (batch) convert these for use on PC? or any other method
> possible to use them on PC?

I can’t remember when the change happened, but there was a major shift
in the way Max patches were stored (maybe around the Max 3
timeframe?). If the patches are the old format, you’ll have to open
them in a version that understands the old and new format, and save
them out in that version.)

If the patches are new enough, you might be able to get by with just
adding a file extension.

Chris Muir
cbm@well.com

http://www.xfade.com


March 14, 2008 | 6:37 pm


March 14, 2008 | 8:50 pm

There’s no update conversion necessary – they all open fine in Max
4.6.3 on my PowerMac (I just tried it). I’d guess (though I’m not a
PC guy) that this means they’ll work fine on Windows with appropriate
file extensions. There are a couple patches with old objects (like
[snd], for example) that no longer exist or are no longer supported,
but the modifications should be relatively straightforward.

On Mar 14, 2008, at 11:43 AM, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:

> This is not easy since newer versions of Max will not open these
> files.
> I’ve kept an old version of Max 3.0 around for this purpose. It’s
> a real
> kludge because it runs as an OS9 app on a PPC. It does convert
> patches from
> old format to new. No batch mode.

—-
Steven M. Miller
Professor, Contemporary Music Program
College of Santa Fe

Home < http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill>
SFIFEM <
http://sfifem.csf.edu>
Atrium Sound Space <
http://atrium.csf.edu>
OVOS <
http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill/ovos.html>
CMP <
http://www.csf.edu/academics/contemporary_music/>


March 14, 2008 | 9:09 pm

Sorry, I meant "on my MacBook Pro"…duhhh

On Mar 14, 2008, at 2:50 PM, Steven Miller wrote:

> There’s no update conversion necessary – they all open fine in Max
> 4.6.3 on my PowerMac (I just tried it). I’d guess (though I’m not a
> PC guy) that this means they’ll work fine on Windows with
> appropriate file extensions. There are a couple patches with old
> objects (like [snd], for example) that no longer exist or are no
> longer supported, but the modifications should be relatively
> straightforward.
>
>

—-
Steven M. Miller
Professor, Contemporary Music Program
College of Santa Fe

Home < http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill>
SFIFEM <
http://sfifem.csf.edu>
Atrium Sound Space <
http://atrium.csf.edu>
OVOS <
http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill/ovos.html>
CMP <
http://www.csf.edu/academics/contemporary_music/>


March 14, 2008 | 9:19 pm

I’ve been using Max since 1990 and I have a ton of projects made with
versions through 2.x. I had to convert them by one-by-one by loading them
into 3.0 and then saving them as new format. I can say with certainty that
old format patches will not load since 4.0. The specific error message is
"[file name]: can’t read old format files"

To be sure, I just created a small patch in 3.0, saved it in old format and
tried to load it into 4.6.3. Doesn’t work. You can’t load those old files
as text either.

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

On 3/14/08 4:50 PM, "Steven Miller" wrote:

> There’s no update conversion necessary – they all open fine in Max
> 4.6.3 on my PowerMac (I just tried it). I’d guess (though I’m not a
> PC guy) that this means they’ll work fine on Windows with appropriate
> file extensions. There are a couple patches with old objects (like
> [snd], for example) that no longer exist or are no longer supported,
> but the modifications should be relatively straightforward.
>
> On Mar 14, 2008, at 11:43 AM, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:
>
>> This is not easy since newer versions of Max will not open these
>> files.
>> I’ve kept an old version of Max 3.0 around for this purpose. It’s
>> a real
>> kludge because it runs as an OS9 app on a PPC. It does convert
>> patches from
>> old format to new. No batch mode.
>
> —-
> Steven M. Miller
> Professor, Contemporary Music Program
> College of Santa Fe
>
> Home < http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill>
> SFIFEM <
http://sfifem.csf.edu>
> Atrium Sound Space <
http://atrium.csf.edu>
> OVOS <
http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill/ovos.html>
> CMP <
http://www.csf.edu/academics/contemporary_music/>
>
>
>


March 14, 2008 | 9:32 pm

We seem to be talking apples and oranges here. I made my tests with old
format files from 2.x and they performed as I described. I dug out my
Winkler disk and tried a few files. They are indeed new format and they
open in 4.6.3 as Steven says. If they are abstractions, they should be
portable to PC. Externals, of course, are not portable.

Sorry for my confusion.

On 3/14/08 5:09 PM, "Steven Miller" wrote:

> Sorry, I meant "on my MacBook Pro"…duhhh
>
> On Mar 14, 2008, at 2:50 PM, Steven Miller wrote:
>
>> There’s no update conversion necessary – they all open fine in Max
>> 4.6.3 on my PowerMac (I just tried it). I’d guess (though I’m not a
>> PC guy) that this means they’ll work fine on Windows with
>> appropriate file extensions. There are a couple patches with old
>> objects (like [snd], for example) that no longer exist or are no
>> longer supported, but the modifications should be relatively
>> straightforward.
>>
>>
>
> —-
> Steven M. Miller
> Professor, Contemporary Music Program
> College of Santa Fe
>
> Home < http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill>
> SFIFEM <
http://sfifem.csf.edu>
> Atrium Sound Space <
http://atrium.csf.edu>
> OVOS <
http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill/ovos.html>
> CMP <
http://www.csf.edu/academics/contemporary_music/>
>
>
>


March 14, 2008 | 9:34 pm

I was specifically referring to the patches that accompany the
Winkler book – the subject of the original post ;)

On Mar 14, 2008, at 3:19 PM, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:

> I’ve been using Max since 1990 and I have a ton of projects made with
> versions through 2.x. I had to convert them by one-by-one by
> loading them
> into 3.0 and then saving them as new format. I can say with
> certainty that
> old format patches will not load since 4.0. The specific error
> message is
> "[file name]: can’t read old format files"
>
> To be sure, I just created a small patch in 3.0, saved it in old
> format and
> tried to load it into 4.6.3. Doesn’t work. You can’t load those
> old files
> as text either.
>
> Cheers
> Gary Lee Nelson
> Oberlin College
> http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

—-
Steven M. Miller
Professor, Contemporary Music Program
College of Santa Fe

Home < http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill>
SFIFEM <
http://sfifem.csf.edu>
Atrium Sound Space <
http://atrium.csf.edu>
OVOS <
http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill/ovos.html>
CMP <
http://www.csf.edu/academics/contemporary_music/>


March 14, 2008 | 9:43 pm

the original post was reffering to old patches from tod winklers book.
these patches are old, but not "max 2.x old format". hence the
confusion

i think it was max 3.5 – 3.6 time, when winklers book was published.


March 14, 2008 | 9:49 pm

And something related…

If you find Winkler interesting, have a look at Robert Rowe’s "Interactive
Music Systems." It contains a lot of max abstractions that parallel the
functions in his C-based software. The book was published in 1992 so the
patches are old format but I seem to remember that an updated versions with
new format objects became available in 2001.

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson


March 15, 2008 | 12:30 am

I also just bought the Todd Winkler book, and everything opens fine in the version of Max I have… 4.6 on Mac.

Perhaps there’s a problem with the PC version or the extension? All the Winkler stuff has the extension .Max

If you think it would help, I could resave all the patches out again from my Mac version for you. There aren’t too many, since he joins entire chapters together into one patch.

cheers
Dan


March 15, 2008 | 2:19 am

On PC I can’t even access Winkler’s CD, tried two PCs and neither would read the disc. If someone shared the files, I bet Windows users could enjoy the patches too. Not sure if that’s violating copyright but if was a lack of foresight on the publisher’s part to not use a cross platform disc.


March 15, 2008 | 3:42 am

On Mar 14, 2008, at 7:19 PM, Adam Murray wrote:

>
> On PC I can’t even access Winkler’s CD, tried two PCs and neither
> would read the disc. If someone shared the files, I bet Windows
> users could enjoy the patches too. Not sure if that’s violating
> copyright but if was a lack of foresight on the publisher’s part to
> not use a cross platform disc.

When the book was published, did Max for Windows even exist?

Chris Muir
cbm@well.com

http://www.xfade.com


March 15, 2008 | 12:37 pm

Quote: Chris Muir wrote on Sat, 15 March 2008 04:42
—————————————————-
> When the book was published, did Max for Windows even exist?
—————————————————-

Todd’s book was first published in 1998; Max for Windows was (IMS) 2003.

Still, the last big file format change in the Max world was early/mid-90′s, and Max continued reading 2.x-version format for the entirety of the 3.0 era. For the developers that was a long time of maintaining compatibility. For users anything less than forever isn’t long enough.

A lot of PC users freak out because Mac documents traditionally don’t have file name extensions. It’s not a big deal: right-click on the document in Windows Explorer, Rename, type .mxb and the pain is over. Is that hard? The Open File dialogs in most apps even allow you to filter on "*.*".

Finally, newbies are eternally confused about the fact that Patches are cross-platform but external objects aren’t. Oh well, what’s the point of being a newbie if you can’t be confused about basic issues?-)


March 15, 2008 | 3:29 pm

cool thanks for all the replies!

yea the cd wont read on a PC, but if you open it on a Mac, and copy all the files, u can get them onto the PC. i will try and change the extensions thanks!!! what should i enter in, just ‘.mxb’?


March 15, 2008 | 3:40 pm

I wonder if some java wizard could write an object that does the conversion
from old to new format. Max 3.0 has both formats as options when saving so
the code must be around somewhere.

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

On 3/15/08 11:29 AM, "chrome-metronome" wrote:

>
> cool thanks for all the replies!
>
> yea the cd wont read on a PC, but if you open it on a Mac, and copy all the
> files, u can get them onto the PC. i will try and change the extensions
> thanks!!! what should i enter in, just ‘.mxb’?
>
>


March 15, 2008 | 7:27 pm

Quote: rory.stjohn@gmail.com wrote on Sat, 15 March 2008 08:29
—————————————————-
> yea the cd wont read on a PC, but if you open it on a Mac, and copy all the files, u can get them onto the PC. i will try and change the extensions thanks!!! what should i enter in, just ‘.mxb’?
>

No, it’s ‘.pat’

Note there are 2 versions of all the patches, like ‘Ch 3-Max Basics.Max’ and ‘Ch 3-Max Basics.MaxPlay’. The MaxPlay version is the older imcompatible Max version that people have been talking about here. So just ignore the *.MaxPlay files.


March 15, 2008 | 8:25 pm

great thanks for that Adam!!


March 16, 2008 | 3:35 pm

Quote: Adam Murray wrote on Sat, 15 March 2008 20:27
—————————————————-
> Quote: rory.stjohn@gmail.com wrote on Sat, 15 March 2008 08:29
> —————————————————-
> > yea the cd wont read on a PC, but if you open it on a Mac, and copy all the files, u can get them onto the PC. i will try and change the extensions thanks!!! what should i enter in, just ‘.mxb’?
> >
>
> No, it’s ‘.pat’
—————————————————-

Sigh.

You can use *both* .pat and .mxb.

When C74 introduced filename extensions for the benefit of Windows users, they tried .pat. Guess what? Everyone using Photoshop was screwed, because PS uses that. So they introduced .mxb

You can use whichever. Since I often work with people who also use PhotoShop, I prefer .mxb.


March 16, 2008 | 7:17 pm

Quote: Peter Castine wrote on Sun, 16 March 2008 08:35
—————————————————-
> > No, it’s ‘.pat’
> —————————————————-
>
> Sigh.
>
> You can use *both* .pat and .mxb.

I was under the impression .mxb was for files saved in the binary file format. The files in question here are plaintext.

On my Windows, where I have Photoshop installed, Max Runtime will open these files with a .pat extension when I double click on it but it doesn’t recognize an .mxb. If I try to manually open the .mxb file with Max I see "error: : can’t open, bad header" in the max window.


March 17, 2008 | 10:08 am

Quote: Adam Murray wrote on Sun, 16 March 2008 20:17
—————————————————-
> I was under the impression .mxb was for files saved in the binary file format. The files in question here are plaintext.
>
> On my Windows, where I have Photoshop installed, Max Runtime will open these files with a .pat extension when I double click on it but it doesn’t recognize an .mxb. If I try to manually open the .mxb file with Max I see "error: : can’t open, bad header" in the max window.
>
>
—————————————————-

Then use .mxt

To review:

.mxb – Max patcher in binary format
.mxt – Max patcher in text format
.pat – Max patcher in either format, but
may be opened as a PhotoShop
pattern document.

Whether Max or Photoshop trumps on the .pat extension depends on the order the applications were installed, when you copy the files, and whether Phobos and Deimos are in conjunction.

The PhotoShop/Max dichotomy isn’t so important when you use an Open File dialog from within either app, but can be a right payne in the arse when you try to open documents from the Finder/Windows Explorer.


March 26, 2008 | 8:20 pm


March 26, 2008 | 8:42 pm


March 26, 2008 | 8:51 pm

Same thing happened to me a few weeks ago (running osx 10.5.2, max
4.6.3). I reinstalled and everything was fine.

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 9:20 PM, Pamela Z

wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> Has anyone experienced anything like this? The Max MSP Runtime application
> has left me! Happy with my successes in building standalones, I went to
> make another one (within a few hours of having successfully built one, and
> got the following error message:
>
> Error: could not find Max/MSP Runtime application
>
> My thought was "this can’t be, I’ve just used it!" But I looked in the Max
> folder and sure enough, no Runtime! Checked the trash, all kinds of
> complete hard disk searches… no where to be found. (How does that even
> happen?) Anyhow, I tried copying just the Runtime app back into my Max
> folder (from a recent backup)and re-starting, but even with the replacement
> MaxMSP Runtime, I still get the error message now whenever trying to create
> a standalone application. (Incidentally, I’m on Mac OS 10.4.10 and running
> Max 4.6.3 with Jitter.)
>
> Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
>
> -p
>
>


September 10, 2013 | 1:51 am

On Mar 14, 2008, at 7:19 PM, Adam Murray wrote:

>
> On PC I can’t even access Winkler’s CD, tried two PCs and neither
> would read the disc. If someone shared the files

I have just bought the Winklers´ book. I have a pc so I have the same problem with the cd and the patches.
Anyone can upload the files transformed into windows version? For me will be difficult to find someone with a mac nad make the mentioned extension transformation.

thank you
Francesc


September 10, 2013 | 6:09 am

You should probably contact Todd.

The patches are under copyright. Although Todd may even be cool about someone else uploading versions of them, his publisher may not be. Or maybe the publisher is cool with it, too. Still you ought to ask. And maybe ask Todd about putting them up on the Web somewhere.


September 10, 2013 | 8:10 am

Thank you Peter


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