Ray Evans

Hi, can anyone suggest a tutorial for creating rotary controls in max - I have experimented with Pict but am having little success (most of my controls end up two knobs wide and will not rotate).

I am a newbie (is it obvious?) and have read all the max help files but am still not quite grasping the procedure for creating these.

BTW the reason I want to do this is I hope to create a Matrix 12 emulation as a vst.

Hi, can anyone suggest a tutorial for creating rotary controls in max - I have experimented with Pict but am having little success (most of my controls end up two knobs wide and will not rotate).
I am a newbie (is it obvious?) and have read all the max help files but am still not quite grasping the procedure for creating these.
BTW the reason I want to do this is I hope to create a Matrix 12 emulation as a vst.
Any help will be greatly recieved.
Thanks


creating-rotary-controls-in-max-msp

> Hi, can anyone suggest a tutorial for creating rotary controls in max - I

> have experimented with Pict but am having little success (most of my

> controls end up two knobs wide and will not rotate).

> I am a newbie (is it obvious?) and have read all the max help files but am

> still not quite grasping the procedure for creating these.

> BTW the reason I want to do this is I hope to create a Matrix 12 emulation

>
> Hi, can anyone suggest a tutorial for creating rotary controls in max - I
> have experimented with Pict but am having little success (most of my
> controls end up two knobs wide and will not rotate).
> I am a newbie (is it obvious?) and have read all the max help files but am
> still not quite grasping the procedure for creating these.
> BTW the reason I want to do this is I hope to create a Matrix 12 emulation
> as a vst.
> Any help will be greatly recieved.
> Thanks
>
>

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Ray Evans wrote:

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 1:04 PM, Ray Evans  wrote:

Thanks for the quick response, I am currently using dial but want to create my own knobs for a custom emulation so was just looking for a tutorial on how to create them as I cant seem to modify the dial preset image.

Thanks for the quick response, I am currently using  dial but want to create my own knobs for a custom emulation so was just looking for a tutorial on how to create them as I cant seem to modify the dial preset image.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Cheers
Ray


Thanks for the swift response Yair, I have just looked at poltocar and although it sort of does what I need what I am looking for is a way of recreating dial but with my own images instead of the preset image. Is the image for dial replaceable?

Thanks for the swift response Yair, I have just looked at poltocar and although it sort of does what I need what I am looking for is a way of recreating dial but with my own images instead of the preset image. Is the image for dial replaceable?
Cheers
Ray


try [jsui] it allows you to create a dail (or many other types of gui

you can start by editing the basic examples with anything else you might

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Ray Evans wrote:

> Thanks for the swift response Yair, I have just looked at cartoplo and

> although it sort of does what I need what I am looking for is a way of

> recreating dial but with my own images instead of the preset image. Is the

try [jsui] it allows you to create a dail (or many other types of gui
elemnts) in javascript.
you can start by editing the basic examples with anything else you might
want to add (or remove)

On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 1:37 PM, Ray Evans  wrote:

>
> Thanks for the swift response Yair, I have just looked at cartoplo and
> although it sort of does what I need what I am looking for is a way of
> recreating dial but with my own images instead of the preset image. Is the
> image for dial replaceable?
> Cheers
> Ray
>

Quote: Ray Evans wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 12:04

----------------------------------------------------

> Hi, can anyone suggest a tutorial for creating rotary controls in max - I have experimented with Pict ...

I don't know tutorials but think what you want is the [pictctrl] object. You have to supply an image in a certain format that contains all the images for each of your knob positions. Then set the parameters of [pictctrl] to match your values and images. You find the picture formats in the Max help.

If your knob has 8 positions for example, you make 8 knob pictures in a graphics application, combine them into a single horizontal row and use this image in [pictctrl]. In this case you set the [pictctrl] "Control Type" to "Dial", the "Dial Maximum" to 8 and then "Dial Number of Images" also to 8. Look at the various other settings if you need something else.

Quote: Ray Evans wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 12:04
----------------------------------------------------
> Hi, can anyone suggest a tutorial for creating rotary controls in max - I have experimented with Pict ...
----------------------------------------------------

A simple example:
If your knob has 8 positions for example, you make 8 knob pictures in a graphics application, combine them into a single horizontal row and use this image in [pictctrl]. In this case you set the [pictctrl] "Control Type" to "Dial", the "Dial Maximum" to 8 and then "Dial Number of Images" also to 8. Look at the various other settings if you need something else.


Quote: Peter Ostry wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 13:54

> ... think what you want is the [pictctrl] object...

Sorry, perhaps you cannot use the [pictctrl] at the moment. Seems to be broken in Max5, at least for me. If you have a [pictctrl] with a picture, regardless if it works or not, try first to save, close (or quit Max5) and reopen the patch. If everything is ok, then ok ...

Quote: Peter Ostry wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 13:54
----------------------------------------------------
> ... think what you want is the [pictctrl] object...
----------------------------------------------------

I can help with this. I did it a lot with Max 4.6, but since then I've learned javascript and use [jsui] which is great(er).

In order to make the proper format (the help file for pictctrl is rather vague) you are going to need MSpaint, Photoshop, Pixelmator, etc. a image editor with somewhat-decent control.

Either take a picture of another software program and use the dials, toggles, etc. from that (I used Reason because it has a fun GUI) or make your own. The more important thing than the images is the layout- you want a 1 pixel border around the whole set (either 6 or 4 images: On,Off,Depressed from On,Depressed from off,Optional Active, and Optional Inactive) which you will have to do by hand using a pencil or line tool. Don't have a border around each picture, but have a border around each set, i. e. side-by-side images (the top line on and off for example) share a border. It's quite fun, actually. I had a couple that were pictures of my face-happy face for on, sad face for off, angry face for being pressed. ( :

In order to make the proper format (the help file for pictctrl is rather vague) you are going to need MSpaint, Photoshop, Pixelmator, etc. a image editor with somewhat-decent control.
Either take a picture of another software program and use the dials, toggles, etc. from that (I used Reason because it has a fun GUI) or make your own. The more important thing than the images is the layout- you want a 1 pixel border around the whole set (either 6 or 4 images: On,Off,Depressed from On,Depressed from off,Optional Active, and Optional Inactive) which you will have to do by hand using a pencil or line tool. Don't have a border around each picture, but have a border around each set, i. e. side-by-side images (the top line on and off for example) share a border. It's quite fun, actually. I had a couple that were pictures of my face-happy face for on, sad face for off, angry face for being pressed. ( :


Yikes, you managed to hit one of my 'hot buttons', especially having 

finished a gig last night. Why anyone would imagine that a rotary 

control for a mouse-based interface system is a good idea is utterly 

beyond my comprehension. I guess screen real-estate considerations 

are a factor, but trying to use them reminds me of my frustrating 

childhood attempts to draw a circle with an etch-a-sketch. They are 

Yikes, you managed to hit one of my 'hot buttons', especially having  
finished a gig last night.  Why anyone would imagine that a rotary  
control for a mouse-based interface system is a good idea is utterly  
beyond my comprehension.  I guess screen real-estate considerations  
are a factor, but trying to use them reminds me of my frustrating  
childhood attempts to draw a circle with an etch-a-sketch.  They are  
the bane of my performance existence.

Hi Brad, you might appreciate what I am attempting to do then - what I am trying to create is a software (max) emulation of the Oberheim Matrix 12 (chosen because of its immense cross modulation possibilities) which could be controlled by a real hardware panel modelled to imitate the original Matrix 12 but with just controller pots underneath which would then interface with Max - a knob twiddling delight for any performer. I get where you are coming from regarding trying to control knobs with mice but for my purposes I want a front end which closely resembles the real hardware - think the recent release of the Korg MS20 emulation with little MS20 controller.

Hi Brad, you might appreciate what I am attempting to do then - what I am trying to create  is a software (max) emulation of the Oberheim Matrix 12 (chosen because of its immense cross modulation possibilities) which could be controlled by a real hardware panel modelled to imitate the original Matrix 12 but with just controller pots underneath which would then interface with Max - a knob twiddling delight for any performer. I get where you are coming from regarding trying to control knobs with mice but for my purposes I want a front end which closely resembles the real hardware - think the recent release of the Korg MS20 emulation with little MS20 controller.

> Yikes, you managed to hit one of my 'hot buttons', especially having 

> finished a gig last night. Why anyone would imagine that a rotary 

> control for a mouse-based interface system is a good idea is utterly 

> beyond my comprehension. I guess screen real-estate considerations 

> are a factor, but trying to use them reminds me of my frustrating 

> childhood attempts to draw a circle with an etch-a-sketch. They are 

Sounds like you've run into bad programming, not simply "rotary 

controls". The good ones (ableton Live springs to mind) all operate 

vertically, NOT in a circular motion (rub it!) I really LIKE this, 

because you can then have onscreen knobs that DONT take up real estate, 

yet retain most of the functionality of sliders.

Brad Garton skrev:
> Yikes, you managed to hit one of my 'hot buttons', especially having 
> finished a gig last night.  Why anyone would imagine that a rotary 
> control for a mouse-based interface system is a good idea is utterly 
> beyond my comprehension.  I guess screen real-estate considerations 
> are a factor, but trying to use them reminds me of my frustrating 
> childhood attempts to draw a circle with an etch-a-sketch.  They are 
> the bane of my performance existence.
Sounds like you've run into bad programming, not simply "rotary 
controls". The good ones (ableton Live springs to mind) all operate 
vertically, NOT in a circular motion (rub it!) I really LIKE this, 
because you can then have onscreen knobs that DONT take up real estate, 
yet retain most of the functionality of sliders.

Any idea how to resize the dial box as only half(width) of my images are appearing and when they are rotating it seems very jerky and not a smooth transition.

Any idea how to resize the dial box as only half(width) of my images are appearing and when they are rotating it seems very jerky and not a smooth transition.
Cheers
Ray


>Sorry, perhaps you cannot use the [pictctrl] at the moment. 

>Seems to be broken in Max5, at least for me. If you have a 

>[pictctrl] with a picture, regardless if it works or not, try 

>first to save, close (or quit Max5) and reopen the patch. If 

If you can please provide a zip archive with patch(es) / image(s) and details on the problem you are seeing then we would be happy to look at it. With a general complaint such as "it does not work" it is hard for us to help.

Peter Ostry said: 
>Sorry, perhaps you cannot use the [pictctrl] at the moment. 
>Seems to be broken in Max5, at least for me. If you have a 
>[pictctrl] with a picture, regardless if it works or not, try 
>first to save, close (or quit Max5) and reopen the patch. If 
>everything is ok, then ok ...

If you can please provide a zip archive with patch(es) / image(s) and details on the problem you are seeing then we would be happy to look at it.  With a general complaint such as "it does not work" it is hard for us to help.

Quote: Rob Sussman wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 16:59

> >Sorry, perhaps you cannot use the [pictctrl] at the moment. 

> If you can please provide a zip archive with patch(es) / image(s) and details on the problem you are seeing then we would be happy to look at it.

Sounds like you have missed the message I sent almost immediately after I wrote the warning above. The subject is "[pictctrl] broken?" and here is the URL:

https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&th=33551&start=0&rid=7037&S=e446529ade7b10ef6f10bdcf3376daae

> With a general complaint such as "it does not work" it is hard for us to help.

I did neither complain nor did I say that "it does not work". I warned the person who might follow my suggestion and might run into the same problem. Actually I said "perhaps" and "seems to be broken".

Please let us continue in the other thread.

Quote: Rob Sussman wrote on Fri, 09 May 2008 16:59
----------------------------------------------------
> Peter Ostry said: 
> >Sorry, perhaps you cannot use the [pictctrl] at the moment. 
> >Seems to be broken in Max5, ...
>
> If you can please provide a zip archive with patch(es) / image(s) and details on the problem you are seeing then we would be happy to look at it. 

Sounds like you have missed the message I sent almost immediately after I wrote the warning above. The subject is "[pictctrl] broken?" and here is the URL:
https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&th=33551&start=0&rid=7037&S=e446529ade7b10ef6f10bdcf3376daae

It was my own failure because the path of the pictures I loaded was not in the Max file preferences. [pictctrl] should work quite well for your rotary controls if there is not a better way with one of the other suggested methods.

Ray, please forget my warning.
It was my own failure because the path of the pictures I loaded was not in the Max file preferences. [pictctrl] should work quite well for your rotary controls if there is not a better way with one of the other suggested methods.


Look for AS_Knob2.pict in your MAX folder. That is how they make custom knobs

I am quite staggered by the fantastic response I have had to my request for help - thanks to everyone who has replied so far (please keep them coming) I am going to try a few of the ideas this weekend and wil post my results on monday - if I have sucess I will be sure to post a 101 on how I achieved it for any other lost soul such as myself.

I have only been using Max for less than a year (starting a degree at 44!) and find it frustrating but also fantastic as it gives me glimpses now and again of what I might acheive with it.

I am quite staggered by the fantastic response I have had to my request for help - thanks to everyone who has replied so far (please keep them coming) I am going to try a few of the ideas this weekend and wil post my results on monday - if I have sucess I will be sure to post a 101 on how I achieved it for any other lost soul such as myself.
I have only been using Max for less than a year (starting a degree at 44!) and find it frustrating but also fantastic as it gives me glimpses now and again of what I might acheive with it.
Thanks again everybody
Ray


> Why anyone would imagine that a rotary control for a mouse-based

> interface system is a good idea is utterly beyond my comprehension.

Why anyone would consider the mouse as a controller at all is beyond my 

comprehension. Touchpads of laptops could be fine if they are not linked 

But rotary dials on screen are perfect if you have rotary controls for 

Fortunately the default mouse tracking in Max 5 is now vertical...

It's also beyond my comprehension why Doepfer discontinued their pocket 

series. The pocket dial is just a perfect companion for Max...

Brad Garton schrieb:
> Why anyone would imagine that a rotary control for a mouse-based
> interface system is a good idea is utterly beyond my comprehension.

Why anyone would consider the mouse as a controller at all is beyond my 
comprehension. Touchpads of laptops could be fine if they are not linked 
to any visual part of the patch.
But rotary dials on screen are perfect if you have rotary controls for 
them...
Fortunately the default mouse tracking in Max 5 is now vertical...

It's also beyond my comprehension why Doepfer discontinued their pocket 
series. The pocket dial is just a perfect companion for Max...

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


> > Why anyone would imagine that a rotary control for a mouse-based

> > interface system is a good idea is utterly beyond my comprehension.

Screen estate is an argument. For the usabilitay it does not make a difference. You start at one point and drag up and down. I don't think that many people work with the circular mode, which is almost unusable. But who knows, some people try hard to follow the path of a long fader with their mouse as if they could lose it. Ironically, this happens only on high-tec interfaces like Lemur and Dexter.

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Mon, 12 May 2008 16:14

> It's also beyond my comprehension why Doepfer discontinued their pocket 

> series. The pocket dial is just a perfect companion for Max...

And not only for Max. Maybe too many customers wanted another case or complained that it doesn't fit for them or whatever. The Pocket Dial itself is not dead, it lives in the "Dial Electronic". Without a case and the encoders are optional.

Btw, what I would like is a row of encoders on my keyboard but the Pocket Dial case does not fit and I want USB for that :-)

There are always Pocket Dials on ebay (2 at the moment in .de), which might also be a cause that Doepfer doesn't sell enough. And he links to a Polish distributor who has still some devices in stock.

Brad Garton schrieb:
----------------------------------------------------
> > Why anyone would imagine that a rotary control for a mouse-based
> > interface system is a good idea is utterly beyond my comprehension.

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Mon, 12 May 2008 16:14
----------------------------------------------------
> It's also beyond my comprehension why Doepfer discontinued their pocket 
> series. The pocket dial is just a perfect companion for Max...

There are always Pocket Dials on ebay (2 at the moment in .de), which might also be a cause that Doepfer doesn't sell enough. And he links to a Polish distributor who has still some devices in stock.


http://www.olilarkin.co.uk/index.php?p=max#pk

Has anyone ever used/made a Doepfer "Dial Electronic"?

Its the diy version of the Pocket Dial (16 endless encoders)

Or perhaps the "Pocket electronic" or "USB64"-kit?

I am quite interested in using potentiometers next to my monome in max. The 64knob Dial Electronic would be a great companion i would think. Any opinions on the 3 Doepfer devices above?

Has anyone ever used/made a Doepfer "Dial Electronic"?
Its the diy version of the Pocket Dial (16 endless encoders)

I am quite interested in using potentiometers next to my monome in max. The 64knob Dial Electronic would be a great companion i would think. Any opinions on the 3 Doepfer devices above?


"Why anyone would consider the mouse as a controller at all is beyond my

and why anyone would suggest "try poltocar" when the question was how

to load custom images into picturecontrol is also beyond a lot of things.

"It's also beyond my comprehension why Doepfer discontinued their pocket

series. The pocket dial is just a perfect companion for Max..."

but i guess that dieter that sooner or later has to accept that he has to do something

with computers when he wants to survive ...

"Why anyone would consider the mouse as a controller at all is beyond my
comprehension."

and why anyone would suggest "try poltocar" when the question was how
to load custom images into picturecontrol is also beyond a lot of things.

"It's also beyond my comprehension why Doepfer discontinued their pocket
series. The pocket dial is just a perfect companion for Max..."

but i guess that dieter that sooner or later has to accept that he has to do something
with computers when he wants to survive ... 

hope it's not too much off topic. I wanted to make an endless rotary knob with custom pics. I found this workaround:

it's basicly a pictctrl underneath an invisible (all alpha to zero) dial with "clip dial values" turned off, connected to each other.

I thought maybe it's useful information for someone....

it's basicly a pictctrl underneath an invisible (all alpha to zero) dial with "clip dial values" turned off, connected to each other.
I thought maybe it's useful information for someone....


I'd like to look at this, but you forgot to include the "pijltjes.png" file....

creating rotary controls in Max msp