Mattijs

Did you notice that if you select an object in the Object Palette of patcher 1, then select another object in the Object Palette of patcher 2, then switch back to patcher 1, the mouse cursor in patcher 1 changed to the new object cursor of patcher 2?

cute-little-ui-bug

Might that not be a convenience feature rather than a bug? You may want to add the same object to several patchers quickly. One man's meat and so on. It *would* be nice to make this optional.

The bug that really annoys me is the cursor remaining as a teeny-tiny text-selection tool after you close a coll and return to your patcher. I found I can avoid this by mousing to my patcher BEFORE I close the coll, and bumping the mouse over the coll text and back to the patcher, without changing windows. The Return of Blackarrow. 

Don't know of a workaround for your object-selection problem... anyone?

Might that not be a convenience feature rather than a bug? You may want to add the same object to several patchers quickly. One man's meat and so on. It *would* be nice to make this optional.
The bug that really annoys me is the cursor remaining as a teeny-tiny text-selection tool after you close a coll and return to your patcher. I found I can avoid this by mousing to my patcher BEFORE I close the coll, and bumping the mouse over the coll text and back to the patcher, without changing windows. The Return of Blackarrow. 
Don't know of a workaround for your object-selection problem... anyone?


Oh... it's been a long day, and it took me a while for the irony in your tone to register...

Never fear, Baldric. I have a cunning patch!

> Did you notice that if you select an object in the Object Palette of patcher 1, then select another object in the Object Palette of patcher 2, then switch back to patcher 1, the mouse cursor in patcher 1 changed to the new object cursor of patcher 2?

Sorry to digress into fantasy land, but I don't see why every patch needs it's own palette. I'd like to tear that thing off and sit it to the side of my screen.

> Did you notice that if you select an object in the Object Palette of patcher 1, then select another object in the Object Palette of patcher 2, then switch back to patcher 1, the mouse cursor in patcher 1 changed to the new object cursor of patcher 2?
>

Sorry to digress into fantasy land, but I don't see why every patch needs it's own palette.  I'd like to tear that thing off and sit it to the side of my screen.

> Sorry to digress into fantasy land, but I don't see why every patch needs it's own palette. I'd like to tear that thing off and sit it to the side of my screen.

>
> Sorry to digress into fantasy land, but I don't see why every patch needs it's own palette.  I'd like to tear that thing off and sit it to the side of my screen.
>
> mz
>

Quote: ludwig_sears wrote on Tue, 23 January 2007 00:47

----------------------------------------------------

> Might that not be a convenience feature rather than a bug? You may want to add the same object to several patchers quickly.

No, it's only the cursor that changes. The object you add is the one you selected originally.

Yeah, as long as it is not a floating toolbar. I would like to click it blindly. Even better would be a shortcut for the first 5 or so items in the toolbar, something like Cmd+1, 2, etc.. (any of you played starcraft? ;)

Quote: ludwig_sears wrote on Tue, 23 January 2007 00:47
----------------------------------------------------
> Might that not be a convenience feature rather than a bug? You may want to add the same object to several patchers quickly.

No, it's only the cursor that changes. The object you add is the  one you selected originally.

>
> Sorry to digress into fantasy land, but I don't see why every patch needs it's own palette. I'd like to tear that thing off and sit it to the side of my screen.
>
> mz
>

>> Sorry to digress into fantasy land, but I don't see why every patch

>> needs it's own palette. I'd like to tear that thing off and sit it

Yes! It takes up far too much space (and I'm using a 1680x1050 display) 

and makes patch layout needlessly irritating. Imagine *not* having to 

Even a floating toolbar would be fine as long as it stays put. The Max 

Yes, it is a UI clue to edit-state, but there are other clues which are 

>> Sorry to digress into fantasy land, but I don't see why every patch
>> needs it's own palette. I'd like to tear that thing off and sit it
>> to the side of my screen.
>>
>> mz

Yes!  It takes up far too much space (and I'm using a 1680x1050 display) 
and makes patch layout needlessly irritating.  Imagine *not* having to 
compensate for that space...

Even a floating toolbar would be fine as long as it stays put.  The Max 
window stays put just fine.

Yes, it is a UI clue to edit-state, but there are other clues which are 
less clumsy.


>> Sorry to digress into fantasy land, but I don't see why every 

>> patch needs it's own palette. I'd like to tear that thing off and 

After thinking about this, I'm going to put my hand up for the 

"nays". I work with 2 monitors, and having to go back to the home 

screen every time I want to add a new object to a patch on the 2nd 

screen would be a right PITA. I would think the same would be true 

It's just much more convenient to have the object bar _right_ there 

where you need it (in the window you're editing) when you need it. 

Though there _is the contextual menu, I suppose, though that's an 

extra keyclick and a couple of scrolls away compared to the fixed 

>>
>> Sorry to digress into fantasy land, but I don't see why every  
>> patch needs it's own palette. I'd like to tear that thing off and  
>> sit it to the side of my screen.
>>

After thinking about this, I'm going to put my hand up for the  
"nays". I work with 2 monitors, and having to go back to the home  
screen every time I want to add a new object to a patch on the 2nd  
screen would be a right PITA. I would think the same would be true  
for working on a large single monitor.
It's just much more convenient to have the object bar _right_ there  
where you need it (in the window you're editing) when you need it.  
Though there _is the contextual menu, I suppose, though that's an  
extra keyclick and a couple of scrolls away compared to the fixed  
bar, so less convenient.

> Sorry to digress into fantasy land, but I don't see why every patch 

> needs it's own palette. I'd like to tear that thing off and sit it 

This is sort of 80s legacy. I asked for a floating palette years and 

years ago but nobody seemed interested. Maybe this is an idea whose 

On 23-Jan-2007, at 10:47, David Stevens wrote:

> I work with 2 monitors, and having to go back to the home screen 

> every time I want to add a new object to a patch on the 2nd screen 

If it's a floating palette you can put it on whichever monitor you 

want to have it. That's the whole point of making it float.

BTW, if anyone's listening: if Max X (X >= 5) has a floating palette, 

it should remember position between Max sessions but must respect 

changes to monitor configuration. The palette must reposition itself 

when configuration changes leave it offscreen. None of this select- 

from-the-Window-menu-with-the-Option-key business.

Peter Castine +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter

Interface Building for |home | chez nous|

Max/MSP Extremely cool |bei uns | i nostri|

> Sorry to digress into fantasy land, but I don't see why every patch  
> needs it's own palette.  I'd like to tear that thing off and sit it  
> to the side of my screen.

This is sort of 80s legacy. I asked for a floating palette years and  
years ago but nobody seemed interested. Maybe this is an idea whose  
time has finally come.

On 23-Jan-2007, at 10:47, David Stevens wrote:
> I work with 2 monitors, and having to go back to the home screen  
> every time I want to add a new object to a patch on the 2nd screen  
> would be a right PITA.

If it's a floating palette you can put it on whichever monitor you  
want to have it. That's the whole point of making it float.

BTW, if anyone's listening: if Max X (X >= 5) has a floating palette,  
it should remember position between Max sessions but must respect  
changes to monitor configuration. The palette must reposition itself  
when configuration changes leave it offscreen. None of this select- 
from-the-Window-menu-with-the-Option-key business.

--------------    http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/    -------------
Peter Castine             +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
                                Universal Binaries on the way
iCE:  Sequencing,  Recording &
       Interface  Building  for                   |home    | chez nous|
       Max/MSP   Extremely cool                   |bei uns |  i nostri|
       http://www.dspaudio.com/                   http://www.castine.de

Quote: Peter Castine wrote on Tue, 23 January 2007 12:03

> If it's a floating palette you can put it on whichever monitor you 

> want to have it. That's the whole point of making it float.

But here is where the true startcraft player (i'm not one of them) will object: not having the click area always on the same position means you'll have to go look for it every time you need it.

This is probably for nerds/windowsusers/trackies (i'm one of them, occasionally), but being able to click or type faster than you can find something on your screen is worth a lot when repetitive tasks are involved.

> On 23-Jan-2007, at 10:47, David Stevens wrote:

> > I work with 2 monitors, and having to go back to the home screen 

> > every time I want to add a new object to a patch on the 2nd screen 

To David: I work with 3. You opened my eyes. No single palette -unless- there are shortcuts to the most common objects. I never use the palette for anything else but the object, message and comment boxes.

> BTW, if anyone's listening: if Max X (X >= 5) has a floating palette, 

> it should remember position between Max sessions but must respect 

> changes to monitor configuration. The palette must reposition itself 

> when configuration changes leave it offscreen. None of this select- 

> from-the-Window-menu-with-the-Option-key business.

Slowly I start to understand why the object palette hasn't changes all these years ;)

> Peter Castine +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter

> Interface Building for |home | chez nous|

> Max/MSP Extremely cool |bei uns | i nostri|

Quote: Peter Castine wrote on Tue, 23 January 2007 12:03
----------------------------------------------------
>
> If it's a floating palette you can put it on whichever monitor you  
> want to have it. That's the whole point of making it float.
>

But here is where the true startcraft player (i'm not one of them) will object: not having the click area always on the same position means you'll have to go look for it every time you need it. 

>
> On 23-Jan-2007, at 10:47, David Stevens wrote:
> > I work with 2 monitors, and having to go back to the home screen  
> > every time I want to add a new object to a patch on the 2nd screen  
> > would be a right PITA.

> It is true that you'd only have one.
>
> BTW, if anyone's listening: if Max X (X >= 5) has a floating palette,  
> it should remember position between Max sessions but must respect  
> changes to monitor configuration. The palette must reposition itself  
> when configuration changes leave it offscreen. None of this select- 
> from-the-Window-menu-with-the-Option-key business.
>

>
> --------------    http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/    -------------
> Peter Castine             +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
>                                 Universal Binaries on the way
> iCE:  Sequencing,  Recording &
>        Interface  Building  for                   |home    | chez nous|
>        Max/MSP   Extremely cool                   |bei uns |  i nostri|
>        http://www.dspaudio.com/                   http://www.castine.de
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------


> After thinking about this, I'm going to put my hand up for the "nays". 

> I work with 2 monitors, and having to go back to the home screen every 

> time I want to add a new object to a patch on the 2nd screen would be 

I just hide the palette altogether while editing - I use the Max 

Toolbox religiously and type in all of the more esoteric objects... this 

is a lot faster for me, and I can cook up long strings of objects with 

But if I must have the palette, then yes, floating would be nice.

David Stevens skrev:
> After thinking about this, I'm going to put my hand up for the "nays". 
> I work with 2 monitors, and having to go back to the home screen every 
> time I want to add a new object to a patch on the 2nd screen would be 
> a right PITA. 

I  just hide the palette altogether while editing  - I use the Max 
Toolbox religiously and type in all of the more esoteric objects... this 
is a lot faster for me, and I can cook up long strings of objects with 
very little mousing. I like that.

last time this suggestion came up I was the last one to post. I was 

kind of weirded out that I got no response on such a hot topic. My 

opinion is that you cant order cycling to adapt to your method of 

working, you have to make it an open system.

my suggestion would be to have messages to max select tools

;max tool js blah.js how sweet would that be?!?!?

that being said.. It sucks to have to compensate for the toolbar 

every time I place an object at the top of a patcher.

last time this suggestion came up I was the last one to post.  I was  
kind of weirded out that I got no response on such a hot topic.  My  
opinion is that you cant order cycling to adapt to your method of  
working, you have to make it an open system.

;max tool ezdac
;max tool none
;max tool gain~

;max tool prepend set
;max tool counter  0 0 16
;max tool js blah.js                    how sweet would that be?!?!?

that being said.. It sucks to have to compensate for the toolbar  
every time I place an object at the top of a patcher.


On 23-Jan-2007, at 13:10, Mattijs Kneppers wrote:

> But here is where the true startcraft player (i'm not one of them) 

> will object: not having the click area always on the same position 

> means you'll have to go look for it every time you need it.

The point of a floating palette is the *you* put it where *you* want 

it and *you* move it when and where *you* want to.

If you want it somewhere static that put it there and keep it 

> But here is where the true startcraft player (i'm not one of them)  
> will object: not having the click area always on the same position  
> means you'll have to go look for it every time you need it.

The point of a floating palette is the *you* put it where *you* want  
it and *you* move it when and where *you* want to.

If you want it somewhere static that put it there and keep it  
thereandstopkvetchingdammit;-)

Did you ever use a tracker such as FastTracker (windows only)? No hard feelings, I can't blame you ;)

Quote: Peter Castine wrote on Tue, 23 January 2007 15:48

> On 23-Jan-2007, at 13:10, Mattijs Kneppers wrote:

> > But here is where the true startcraft player (i'm not one of them) 

> > will object: not having the click area always on the same position 

> > means you'll have to go look for it every time you need it.

> The point of a floating palette is the *you* put it where *you* want 

> it and *you* move it when and where *you* want to.

> If you want it somewhere static that put it there and keep it 

Quote: Peter Castine wrote on Tue, 23 January 2007 15:48
----------------------------------------------------
> On 23-Jan-2007, at 13:10, Mattijs Kneppers wrote:
>
> > But here is where the true startcraft player (i'm not one of them)  
> > will object: not having the click area always on the same position  
> > means you'll have to go look for it every time you need it.
>
> Then don't move the damn palette.
>
> The point of a floating palette is the *you* put it where *you* want  
> it and *you* move it when and where *you* want to.
>
> What word in 'you' doncha unnerstand?
>
> If you want it somewhere static that put it there and keep it  
> thereandstopkvetchingdammit;-)
>
> Sheez. Both of you.
>
> --------------    http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/    -------------
> Peter Castine             +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
>                                 Universal Binaries on the way
> iCE:  Sequencing,  Recording &
>        Interface  Building  for                   |home    | chez nous|
>        Max/MSP   Extremely cool                   |bei uns |  i nostri|
>        http://www.dspaudio.com/                   http://www.castine.de
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------


On 23-Jan-2007, at 16:52, Mattijs Kneppers wrote:

> Did you ever use a tracker such as FastTracker (windows only)? No 

> Did you ever use a tracker such as FastTracker (windows only)? No  
> hard feelings, I can't blame you ;)

> Yeah, as long as it is not a floating toolbar. I would like to click it

> blindly. Even better would be a shortcut for the first 5 or so items in the

> toolbar, something like Cmd+1, 2, etc.. (any of you played starcraft? ;)

> Quote: ludwig_sears wrote on Tue, 23 January 2007 00:47

> ----------------------------------------------------

> > Might that not be a convenience feature rather than a bug? You may want

> to add the same object to several patchers quickly.

> No, it's only the cursor that changes. The object you add is the one you

> > Sorry to digress into fantasy land, but I don't see why every patch

> needs it's own palette. I'd like to tear that thing off and sit it to the

> Interactive audiovisual sampling soft- and hardware

> Yeah, as long as it is not a floating toolbar. I would like to click it
> blindly. Even better would be a shortcut for the first 5 or so items in the
> toolbar, something like Cmd+1, 2, etc.. (any of you played starcraft? ;)
>

On 1/23/07, Mattijs Kneppers  wrote:
>
>
> Quote: ludwig_sears wrote on Tue, 23 January 2007 00:47
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > Might that not be a convenience feature rather than a bug? You may want
> to add the same object to several patchers quickly.
>
> No, it's only the cursor that changes. The object you add is the  one you
> selected originally.
>
> >
> > Sorry to digress into fantasy land, but I don't see why every patch
> needs it's own palette. I'd like to tear that thing off and sit it to the
> side of my screen.
> >
> > mz
> >
>
> Yeah, as long as it is not a floating toolbar. I would like to click it
> blindly. Even better would be a shortcut for the first 5 or so items in the
> toolbar, something like Cmd+1, 2, etc.. (any of you played starcraft? ;)
>
> "I still have a dream"
>
> Mattijs
>
> --
> SmadSteck - http://www.smadsteck.nl
> Interactive audiovisual sampling soft- and hardware
>
>

Or even a toolbar which learns which objects you use most often and 

floats those to the top - or is that really dreaming :-)>

On 23 Jan 2007, at 20:32, karl-otto von oertzen wrote:

> -a customizable toolbar where only the objects you *really* always 

Lawrence Casserley - lawrence@lcasserley.co.uk

Lawrence Electronic Operations - www.lcasserley.co.uk

Colourscape Music Festivals - www.colourscape.org.uk

Or even a toolbar which learns which objects you use most often and  
floats those to the top - or is that really dreaming :-)>

> -a customizable toolbar where only the objects you *really* always  
> use are shown.

Lawrence Casserley - lawrence@lcasserley.co.uk
Lawrence Electronic Operations - www.lcasserley.co.uk
Colourscape Music Festivals - www.colourscape.org.uk

On Jan 23, 2007, at 3:56 PM, lawrence casserley wrote:

> Or even a toolbar which learns which objects you use most often and 

> floats those to the top - or is that really dreaming :-)>

NO!!!!!!!!! Sorry. Just awoke in a cold sweat from a Microsoft UI 

nightmare. For me (and I'll grant that others may feel passionately 

otherwise), the last kind of interface that I want is one that 

"decides" what I'm trying to do a la Office (Clippy: "It looks like 

you're writing a manifesto. Might I suggest emphatic, clipped 

sentences?"), or hides things from me because I haven't used them in a 

while like the Windows start menu. While I think the idea for this 

kind of interface can work, I've rarely seen it implemented in a way 

that was helpful to me. Also, the thought of having to explain where 

certain objects reside or are hiding to my students makes me cringe...

What I definitely would like is the easy ability to rearrange the 

location of objects. Maybe a shift-click moves it, and if you 

shift-click to the desktop, it disappears. love to have the function 

object in place of the envi object, and it'd also be nice to have 

scope~ and spectrograph~ closer to the left... For the 13375t3r5, you 

could have object, message, and comment making for a very small 

footprint. On the other hand, it'd also be damn obnoxious if some 

bastard did this to all the lab computers right before a class... 

(though that's probably fixable very easily via permissions)

I'd be in favor of a tear-off tool pallette even. Just no 

> Or even a toolbar which learns which objects you use most often and 
> floats those to the top - or is that really dreaming :-)>
>

NO!!!!!!!!!    Sorry.  Just awoke in a cold sweat from a Microsoft UI 
nightmare.  For me (and I'll grant that others may feel passionately 
otherwise), the last kind of interface that I want is one that 
"decides" what I'm trying to do a la Office (Clippy:  "It looks like 
you're writing a manifesto.  Might I suggest emphatic, clipped 
sentences?"), or hides things from me because I haven't used them in a 
while like the Windows start menu.  While I think the idea for this 
kind of interface can work, I've rarely seen it implemented in a way 
that was helpful to me.  Also, the thought of having to explain where 
certain objects reside or are hiding to my students makes me cringe...

What I definitely would like is the easy ability to rearrange the 
location of objects.  Maybe a shift-click moves it, and if you 
shift-click to the desktop, it disappears.  love to have the function 
object in place of the envi object, and it'd also be nice to have 
scope~ and spectrograph~ closer to the left...  For the 13375t3r5, you 
could have object, message, and comment making for a very small 
footprint.  On the other hand, it'd also be damn obnoxious if some 
bastard did this to all the lab computers right before a class...  
(though that's probably fixable very easily via permissions)

I'd be in favor of a tear-off tool pallette even.  Just no 
auto-arranging algorithms for me.

I think you meant 1337573r5 there - I really wish people would take 

more care about their spelling on this list.

Am 23.01.2007 um 22:48 schrieb Peter McCulloch:

I think you meant 1337573r5 there - I really wish people would take  
more care about their spelling on this list.

No I don't mean something that has it's own ideas about what I want - 

just something that reflects what I am actually doing. If I never use 

Ggate, which I don't, it will sink to the very end, while an object I 

use more often, like meter~ will move up the hierarchy - it won't 

confuse me because I can never remember where the bloody things are 

anyway! The "real" stuff, like object, message, number boxes, etc 

will stay at the top because they get used all the time.

In multi-user situations preferences should be stored in each user's 

private space, so the "bastard" would have more trouble, but I agree 

that being able to move them yourself would probably be just as good 

cute little ui bug