Forums > MaxMSP

Dead Looper

July 11, 2011 | 2:45 pm

Use the Max for several years, always used as a tool of analysis, as an interface between programs and hardware, reader sensors, such as a filter. I did small patches, fx and synths, etc …
I needed to make a looper for playing live, SooperLooper, Mobius and less "Live" could cover my exact needs. I thought Max could do it, bah I thought I could develop something in time, try "record ~", "groove ~" but needed to synchronize with a master track, plus some midi functionality, also had to change the speed and working with loops of variable size and no default.
A buffer of larger, phasor and objects rate, index and poke, poke and then wave (even try iPoker) but nothing when I solve the clicks clicks on one hand emerged on the other hand, finally looking at the forum I found other users with similar experiences, concern for the sample holly Tim Lloyd, Andrew Benson’s solution, ~ 0.5 round, index and interpolation, artifacs and artifacts … The frustration was before I remembered that many of the projects face in the Max FEASIBLE not always ended up being "practical" and above all reliable.
Max is still a good option to use along with any MIDI controller or atmega, fx is served to test for fft but I do not need to be thought of as a programming system and the unavoidable drawbacks are many.
It’s not just my ignorance but I did not find a single case where a user has solved all these problems, the solutions always dealt leave out some functionality, counting samples, time domain, no one is sending messages is itself a full choice of some characteristics or mode of infrastructure has a very clear limit.
If you want a live looper with some type functionality like mobius or SooperLooper
Do not waste time with Max.
Greetings.


July 11, 2011 | 3:01 pm

Dude, calm down, take a herbal tea, smoke a joint and don’t hit the computer!

You say you "needed", maybe if you could show what you’ve got, we could help out.

Otherwise we can’t help and it would render your post quite useless. (better of posting this on other forums if you posted this as a warning since we’re max-users here wasting our time:)

FRid


July 11, 2011 | 4:04 pm

I’m pretty sure I solved all my looping problems … a lot of my posts on here regarding such things are essentially me posting while confused and not understanding what I was doing :)

What are the features of mobius and superlooper that you want to recreate? I’ve never used either of them so you’ll have to explain.

+1 on the herbal tea


July 11, 2011 | 4:05 pm

frustration + determination = innovation

The tool one chooses is of secondary importance, and relates only to task context.

@Tim
Mobius and sooperlooper are used by live loopers (natch), and focus on the juxtaposition, re-pitching and re-ordering of loops in a tightly synchronised space. The preeminent exponent of this style is the mighty Andre La Fosse.

Brendan


July 11, 2011 | 4:26 pm

I see, well such things are achievable in max. They’re not going to be particularly easy to build from scratch no matter what environment you do it in, but max is a great option!

iirc, Andre La Fosse uses a Gibson Echoplex, so taking a look at the manual is a good place to start if you want to do the kinds of things he does. One thing I like about it is the ‘replace’ mode of the ‘insert’ feature, which is something I messed around with in max a while ago.

At one point I had a cool little looper patch that I used to jam with a bassist with, where we could each layer overdubs of variable integer multiples of the original loop length, and replace bits of any of our or each-other’s loop layers with our live signal at the press of a footswitch :) … leads to some cool things, like atmospheric harmonies that descend into rhythmically-bloopy confused odd-panning strangeness.

I don’t have it anymore, as it’s on a hard drive that I still need to track down :( … it’s not hard to make with some determination and forum questioning though.

If the OP were to focus in on a few areas to start with, I would be happy to help :)

A question remains though: if you want something just like Mobius or SuperLooper, why not use them?

… building things does take time …



pid
July 11, 2011 | 6:08 pm

ultimately i agree with the op. i am a great fan of max and use it every day; i love the way it is so creative, unlike other languages which i find too technical. but building a high quality sooperlooperlike looper should be basic bread and butter stuff to max, but it is unquestionably a total pita to do well. WELL. there are simple functionalities missing from many many objects. largely to do with sample-rate triggering and interpolation issues. patching workarounds is a constant effort, and more and more cpu. i find i eventually come up with great solutions that have taken me ages, invariably upsampling things here and there too, and i got no cpu left to move. i really hope that with the rumoured forthcoming updates to the msp audio engine, we also get some major updates to certain objects and quite a few new ones as well. furthermore, i do not see the problem in cycling releasing a whole series of high quality abstractions/bpatchers for noobs and hackers alike to help achieve these basics quicker. doing so would not suddenly turn max into reaktor ffs. would just nudge in the right direction. one of the points of MSP should be that we do not have to all go and use supercollider.


July 11, 2011 | 8:21 pm

///
"i do not see the problem in cycling releasing a whole series of high quality abstractions/bpatchers for noobs and hackers alike to help achieve these basics quicker"
///

What kinds of things? Let’s make them and share them in the toolbox section :)


July 11, 2011 | 9:19 pm

Thanks for answering just finished 1lt herbal tea and I think I’m ready to explain even a little better.
Tim, very carefully followed your posts and comments, partly because I was basically finding the same problems.
About using Sooper or mobius originally insert them in Vst ~ mobius but my intention is to work on "the way" on the structure and scripting Mobius has its limits, I found inconsistencies communicating via parameters in Vst ~ Mobius is You can use CC but my intention is also to process the loops in different ways and in real time.
I could never get phasor / rate ~ (~ + ~ sr * 0.5 rounded) poke ~ ~ wave did not give random errors clicks etc. Of course, the Master phasor speed may vary from time purpose. Only counting samples had consistent results and record groove ~ ~ but of course forsaking all other features of syncro, tempo change (rate/pitch shift).
pid:
the learning curve is very flat in many cases you inspect the items and assumes that the program will serve for many things then once you dig a little deeper he discovers that no good really for what seemed to serve or have inherent drawbacks.
Example: record groove ~ ~ ~ play simultaneously in the same buffer … overdubing using index ~ ~ But poke round, interpolation
But ..
etc
acurate sample record <> Vary speed, then sample acurate (+ count = ~ ~) in the record part, but the connection in perfect time with a reproduction system based on phasor is at least unstable.


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