tiramoney

I'm trying to educate myself more on new objects and techniques. I've been following the MSP Dynamics tutorials and I'm working on this one here-

https://cycling74.com/wiki/index.php?title=MSP_Dynamics_Tutorial_3:_Distortion#Applying_distortion

I edited the patch a bit to its bare minimums, which helps me learn. However, I'm still confused on a few elements of the following patch and why they're there/what they're doing. If anyone could help, it would be so very much appreciated! They're questions that I can't seem to answer based on the wiki!

1. To my knowledge, info~ takes information from a corresponding buffer~ and spits it out to its various outlets. What I'm not understanding is why this is necessary here. I get that it is spitting out the length of the buffer, and that said length is being sent to the corresponding receive object, but what is it doing?

2. Related to the question above, what are *1, pack 0.0., and the message box underneath with the numbers doing? That one I'm just totally lost on.

3. So... lookup~ low takes the info from the waveform~ named "low" and shoots it out to the sliders and then to the sfplay~. Cool. But the numbers "0 8191" after it? I figure they correspond to the reset patchers, which contain a uni~ object, which I know spits out a ton of bangs at once, and that that is being used to make -1 get to 1 in a certain amount of time. I just don't get how exactly they relate and what -1 and 1 have to do with anything... is it the sliders?

Sorry for lengthy questions. I am trying my very best to learn and then once I learn more I will answer all questions I can on here to make up for how many I ask! Thanks for any help!

1. To my knowledge, info~ takes information from a corresponding buffer~ and spits it out to its various outlets. What I'm not understanding is why this is necessary here. I get that it is spitting out the length of the buffer, and that said length is being sent to the corresponding receive object, but what is it doing? 

Sorry for lengthy questions. I am trying my very best to learn and then once I learn more I will answer all questions I can on here to make up for how many I ask! Thanks for any help!


distortion-confusion

The length is used to make [play~] playback in the right speed. Line~ wants a list of destination value and time in ms in which to ramp to that value. The destination value is being multiplied with different factors. The result is that the play object plays always from start to end (the destination value remains the same) but within a different time(so in a different pitch).

no sfplay~ there.(?) why don't you look in lookup's helpfile before asking here? 0-8192 is the range in which to lookup in the buffer in samples, I suppose. But I'd have to look in the docs now(which is your job). The uzi objects draw lookup tables I suppose but since they are not included in your patch, I don't know. I guess they are used in combination with a peek~ object to draw these ramps. There is some other thread on this forum in which I posted a nice visualization of how lookup tables work, but may just look on the web to get the ". I just don’t get how exactly they relate and what -1 and 1 have to do with anything…" thing. cheers!

hi!
ad 1&2:
The length is used to make [play~] playback in the right speed. Line~ wants a list of destination value and time in ms in which to ramp to that value. The destination value is being multiplied with different factors. The result is that the play object plays always from start to end (the destination value remains the same) but within a different time(so in a different pitch).
ad3:
no sfplay~ there.(?) why don't you look in lookup's helpfile  before asking here? 0-8192 is the range in which to lookup in the buffer in samples, I suppose. But I'd have to look in the docs now(which is your job). The uzi objects draw lookup tables I suppose but since they are not included in your patch, I don't know. I guess they are used in combination with a peek~ object to draw these ramps. There is some other thread on this forum in which I posted a nice visualization of how lookup tables work, but may just look on the web to get the ". I just don’t get how exactly they relate and what -1 and 1 have to do with anything…" thing. cheers!


https://cycling74.com/forums/question-regarding-msp-tutorial-12-waveshaping/

1. I think I get this... let me try to explain it and see if it makes sense... METRO is ultimately controlling the time that each thing plays, but sending the sample length makes it know to play FROM START TO END. Something to that effect?

2 and 3. DOH, stupid me, I mean ezdac, not sfplay. Oh, I promise I check the help files on EVERYTHING before I ask anything here. I also search the forums but maybe I didn't see the topic you've just posted. After playing around with your patch and re-reading the lookup file, I think I get it more. The "table of samples" is whatever is found in the corresponding buffer~, which itself is affected by what is drawn in the corresponding waveform~, correct? Also, I should have been much more clear- the peak and uzi objects I was referring to are in subpatches named p resetlow, p resetmid, and p resethi, found below the waveform~ objects. Sorry about that! But I think that thread really helps... in the subpatches there are scale 0 8191 -1 1, so I hypothesize that it scales 0 to 8191 so that -1 gets to 1 in the amount of bangs it takes 0 to get to 8191, and that these affect peak~ which affects the wavetable~ as well.

I also wanna pick up some of those books mentioned in the other thread! I think they'd be very helpful!

Thank you again for your help, and if you have time to reply again to this new info, that would be great. :)

2 and 3. DOH, stupid me, I mean ezdac, not sfplay.  Oh, I promise I check the help files on EVERYTHING before I ask anything here. I also search the forums but maybe I didn't see the topic you've just posted. After playing around with your patch and re-reading the lookup file, I think I get it more. The "table of samples" is whatever is found in the corresponding buffer~, which itself is affected by what is drawn in the corresponding waveform~, correct? Also, I should have been much more clear- the peak and uzi objects I was referring to are in subpatches named p resetlow, p resetmid, and p resethi, found below the waveform~ objects. Sorry about that! But I think that thread really helps... in the subpatches there are scale 0 8191 -1 1, so I hypothesize that it scales 0 to 8191 so that -1 gets to 1 in the amount of bangs it takes 0 to get to 8191, and that these affect peak~ which affects the wavetable~ as well.

Thank you again for your help, and if you have time to reply again to this new info, that would be great. :)


Have a look at the line~ helppatch, what you say seems correct but still smells like some slight misunderstandings. The metro just sends bangs in regular intervals. It causes a computation that has an outcome telling line~ to go from zero to the end of the sample. The speed in which it does that is determined by a random value from the list in the coll object.

(attached is the same patch once more. I added some objects for inspecting what happens, just so you know about them. It's really important to learn how to inspect your patches, to know how to make you able to see what passes around.)

oops I didn't see those subpatchers, sorry for that. but yes, it seems you more or less understood what happens

Have a look at the line~ helppatch, what you say seems correct but still smells like some slight misunderstandings. The metro just sends bangs in regular intervals. It causes a computation that has an outcome telling line~ to go from zero to the end of the sample. The speed in which it does that is determined by a random value from the list in the coll object.
(attached is the same patch once more. I added some objects for inspecting what happens, just so you know about them. It's really important to learn how to inspect your patches, to know how to make you able to see what passes around.)
oops I didn't see those subpatchers, sorry for that. but yes, it seems you more or less understood what happens
cheers


Thank you so much for your dedication to my problem. I hope I don't seem like I'm not trying myself... this is just a bit more complex than patches I've done in my college course!

I took your advice (and learned from what you did in the patch) and tried inspecting things... I also read up on line~'s help patch, but I'm still a bit confused. You see how the message box attached to line on the left has weird numbers in it, like a bunch of 0.5's and 1115? I don't get what these numbers represent. I attached a number~ to that line object, and it came out with 0.5, so I replaced all of the numbers in that message box just 0.5 and it seems to be working the exact same way.

I guess an overall question to sum up my confusion... what are the message boxes that bang into the left inlet of line~ doing, exactly? After looking in the help patch, I see that they create signal ramps out of the values of the attached message boxes, but what does this do for us here? And why are the values set to what they are set to? Also, what is the point of the $ values? I know that $ are basically there to be overridden by other arguments, but I can't see their impact here.

Ugh, sorry for all the trouble! I can't tell you how much your assistance is helping me to understand, though!

I took your advice (and learned from what you did in the patch) and tried inspecting things... I also read up on line~'s help patch, but I'm still a bit confused. You see how the message box attached to line on the left has weird numbers in it, like a bunch of 0.5's and 1115? I don't get what these numbers represent. I attached a number~ to that line object, and it came out with 0.5, so I replaced all of the numbers in that message box just 0.5 and it seems to be working the exact same way. 

Ugh, sorry for all the trouble! I can't tell you how much your assistance is helping me to understand, though!


The line object with the strange numbers is controlling the amplitude of the output, since it's multiplying our audio.

The numbers are creating an envelope. alt+click the line object to open the help patcher -> list input.

what the message box says is : go to 0 in 0 milliseconds, then got to 0.5 in 5 ms, then got to 0.5 in 1115 ms (so, stay there) etc..

you want to fade the samnple in and out to prevent audible clicks.

the $ stuff is documented. alt+click the message box. true, the incoming stuff is going through and controls the ramp line~creates.

I think we are going in circles here. Either I'm explaining something really bad or you should just do a bit of homework :)

hi again.
The line object with the strange numbers is controlling the amplitude of the output, since it's multiplying our audio.
The numbers are creating an envelope. alt+click the line object to open the help patcher -> list input.
what the message box says is : go to 0 in 0 milliseconds, then got to 0.5 in 5 ms, then got to 0.5 in 1115 ms (so, stay there) etc..
you want to fade the samnple in and out to prevent audible clicks.
the $ stuff is documented. alt+click the message box. true, the incoming stuff is going through and controls the ramp line~creates.
I think we are going in circles here. Either I'm explaining something really bad or you should just do a bit of homework :)


I'm quite confident it's me needing to do homework, which I have been doing, but probably in the wrong way!

That being said, your last post really cleared things up for me. I did go to the list input part of the help file (before I even started this thread, actually), but what confused me was that those message boxes contained commas and the message box in my patch didn't- YOUR explanation makes a ton of sense, though! I couldn't find that information anywhere on my own! Thank you very much.

I also looked at the message box help patch. I just don't see anything like the one in my patch, like why is there 0 0 before my $ values? I feel like this is rudimentary MAX knowledge, but is not something I've come across at school or in my online studies. Trust me, I love doing homework on this software... I just need to find the proper resources for me, I suppose! The help patches are great, but maybe I'm still missing a few basics. It's hard to tell.

you can use the $ notation anywhere in a message box.

the output of the $-sign message box will be:

so you can select list elements with this notation and combine them with anything you like. Typically this can be used for example like:

alright. And just because you mentioned it: the commas make a message box send multiple messages in succession(!) without the commas it's one list.

Make a small patch with two messageboxes one saying:

connect them both to print objects and click em. You'll see.

alright, one more:
you can use the $ notation anywhere in a message box.
if I make a messagebox like this:

0 hello $2 $3 world $1
And send to that message box:a b c
the output of the $-sign message box will be:0 hello b c world a
so you can select list elements with this notation and combine them with anything you like. Typically this can be used for example like:cutoff $1
send to that the value 127
and you getcutoff 127
alright. And just because you mentioned it: the commas make a message box send multiple messages in succession(!) without the commas it's one list.
Make a small patch with two messageboxes one saying:a b c
and one sayinga, b, c
connect them both to print objects and click em. You'll see.


Distortion confusion