dynamic stochastic synthesis in MAX

Oct 17, 2008 at 12:14am

dynamic stochastic synthesis in MAX

Hi everyone,

Anybody knows of a MAX external or something to create sound
following Xenakis’s Dynamic Stochastic Synthesis ideas?

Maybe some adaptation of his GENDYN program,

thanks!

Leonardo

#40375
Oct 17, 2008 at 12:58am

Hi,

I’m not sure if this is what you’re after but look here http://sonic-disorder.com/research.html for the program called Stochos.

Best,

Nicolas

—————————————-
> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:14:08 -0600
> From: lsecco333@hotmail.com
> Subject: [maxmsp] dynamic stochastic synthesis in MAX
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Anybody knows of a MAX external or something to create sound
> following Xenakis’s Dynamic Stochastic Synthesis ideas?
>
> Maybe some adaptation of his GENDYN program,
>
>
> thanks!
>
> Leonardo

Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how.

http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008

#142776
Oct 17, 2008 at 2:15am

Quote: Nicolas Villa wrote on Thu, 16 October 2008 18:58
—————————————————-
>
> Hi,
>
> I’m not sure if this is what you’re after but look here http://sonic-disorder.com/research.html for the program called Stochos.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Nicolas
>
>
> —————————————-
> > Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:14:08 -0600
> > From: lsecco333@hotmail.com
> > Subject: [maxmsp] dynamic stochastic synthesis in MAX
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Anybody knows of a MAX external or something to create sound
> > following Xenakis’s Dynamic Stochastic Synthesis ideas?
> >
> > Maybe some adaptation of his GENDYN program,
> >
> >
> > thanks!
> >
> > Leonardo
>
> Want to read Hotmail messages in Outlook? The Wordsmiths show you how.
> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/wedowindowslive.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!20EE04FBC541789!167.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_092008
>
—————————————————-

Great stuff !
But it’s really obscure, it would be great to open and learn how it works to be able to really understand what to do…

#142777
Oct 17, 2008 at 3:18am

thanks Nicolas,

It does implement stochastic synth but using grains (or sound particles).
The one I’m looking for is a procedure invented by Xenakis as well which he called Dynamic Stochastic Synthesis, consisting on the gradual modifications in a waveform’s amplitude by means of stochastic algorithms, all this at the sample level.

There is an implementation for Super Collider

http://danielnouri.org/docs/SuperColliderHelp/UGens/Oscillators/Gendy1.html

Useful to have downloaded Stochos anyhow!

best

Leonardo

#142778
Oct 17, 2008 at 5:45am

hi,

Xenakis’s DSS implementation constructs the waveform with stochastic
functions on the lowest level, and tries to limit this space with x/y
barriers. This gives a wild and unique sonic space creating an interesting
metaphor between waveform and higher order sonic forms. But don’t imagine
to obtain all kind of complex sounds.

Stochos needs at least some waveform on the grain level to construct
higher level structures. Complex destruction/construction of the waveform
can be obtained with Cosmos versions, since it has a controlled feedback
mechanism, but this version is still not available, since I wish to manage
to run them on Max5 first!

Sinan Bokesoy
sinan@sonic-disorder.com
http://www.sonic-disorder.com
>
> thanks Nicolas,
>
> It does implement stochastic synth but using grains (or sound particles).
> The one I’m looking for is a procedure invented by Xenakis as well which
> he called Dynamic Stochastic Synthesis, consisting on the gradual
> modifications in a waveform’s amplitude by means of stochastic algorithms,
> all this at the sample level.
>
> There is an implementation for Super Collider
> http://danielnouri.org/docs/SuperColliderHelp/UGens/Oscillators/Gendy1.html
>
> Useful to have downloaded Stochos anyhow!
>
> best
>
> Leonardo
>
>
>

#142779
Oct 17, 2008 at 7:49am

There have been attempts to make objects that deliver stochastic synthesis true to Xenakis’ ideas. They didn’t work very well however and did not offer the kind of control expected. Doing this within the context of a max external proved to be challenging, apparently, although I don’t know much about the details. The difficulty was the varying cycle duration, if I remember correctly.

It is fairly easy however to make a non-realtime version in max. Just stick to the rules and that’s it. What the rules are can be understood best overhere: http://www.sergioluque.com/thesis.html, a former sonology student who researched Xenakis’ model and works, and removed some of the haze surrounding this matter. He also suggested an addition to the model, which is stochastic concatenation of dynamic stochastic synthesis. Two pieces are presented as well, to me among the best ever made using this model.

_
johan

#142780
Oct 17, 2008 at 1:47pm

Thanks Sinan,

good to have news from the developer!
I’ll be glad to test your next cosmos version, I think it
goes more into what I had in mind,

By the way I have tested an interesting form of iterated synthesis (at the low level)that you might like to try: CFFM (cross feed-back FM), the patch is very simple, only 2 cycle in mutual frecuency feedback. You can find the patch in an article by Miranda_VAsalamakis:

http://neuromusic.soc.plymouth.ac.uk/papers/Digital_Creativity.pdf

L

#142781
Oct 17, 2008 at 1:53pm

Thanks Johan, that’s exactly what I was looking for,
excellent reference

best
Leonardo

#142782

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