Forums > MaxMSP

Export from Max 5 to Max 4.6


Yon
April 28, 2008 | 6:15 pm

Hello,

Apologies, as I imagine that this is answered elsewhere, and suspect the answer to what I am about to ask is no, but wanted to ask anyway.

Is it going to be possible to export patches to Max 4 (4.6?)?

If not, I will have to defer using Max 5, as attractive as it is. I sometimes collaborate with others who may not yet be able to upgrade.

Yon


April 28, 2008 | 7:06 pm

Quote: Yon wrote on Mon, 28 April 2008 11:15
—————————————————-
>
> Is it going to be possible to export patches to Max 4 (4.6?)?
>

I suppose anything is possible, but you should assume the answer is no.

C74 said they aren’t going to support this, but have pointed out that it should be possible for someone to make a Max 5 -> 4 converter. However, I think it would be a pretty huge undertaking and no one’s going to bother. Even if someone did it, there are a lot of new features in Max 5 that simply can’t be converted back to a Max 4 patch, so it would not work in a lot of cases.

There are other options. You can run version 4 and 5 side by side, and communicate between them using MIDI or UDP or whatever. People who only have Max 4 can run Max 5 patches using the free runtime.


October 27, 2008 | 6:45 pm

"People who only have Max 4 can run Max 5 patches using the free runtime."

Yes, but they couldn’t alter the patches. Working in a team of users of mixed max versions would force all 4.6 users into having to buy an upgrade, although technically it wouldn’t be necessary, as long as all team members are restricting themselves to using a 4.6 functionality – which is not an unusual option.

Psychologically and in the context of demonstrating user-friendliness it is VERY unclever of Cycling74 not to include an official backwards-compatible export option into Max 5. The lack of such an option raises thoughts of a not-so-hidden attack on people, who’d presently are still sufficiently working with max 4.6. Which are many.

Reminds me of a long-time motto of a good friend of mine, which always comes up, when software or hardware developers introduce new software versions without thinking backwards compatibility:

"Don’t let nerds take over your life."


October 27, 2008 | 7:00 pm

max5 is a different program. think of it that way. you’re going from
os 9 to os x. from windows 3.1 to windows NT. keep your team in 4.6
as long as it needs to be that way, then upgrade.

there are many, many things about 5 that are impossible to implement
in a 4 patch. it’s a different world.

i for one hope to never, ever have to spend another minute working in 4.

On Oct 27, 2008, at 2:45 PM, jayrope wrote:

>
> "People who only have Max 4 can run Max 5 patches using the free
> runtime."
>
> Yes, but they couldn’t alter the patches. Working in a team of users
> of mixed max versions would force all 4.6 users into having to buy
> an upgrade, although technically it wouldn’t be necessary, as long
> as all team members are restricting themselves to using a 4.6
> functionality – which is not an unusual option.
>
> Psychologically and in the context of demonstrating user-
> friendliness it is VERY unclever of Cycling74 not to include an
> official backwards-compatible export option into Max 5. The lack of
> such an option raises thoughts of a not-so-hidden attack on people,
> who’d presently are still sufficiently working with max 4.6. Which
> are many.
>
> Reminds me of a long-time motto of a good friend of mine, which
> always comes up, when software or hardware developers introduce new
> software versions without thinking backwards compatibility:
>
> "Don’t let nerds take over your life."
>
>
> –
> —
> fiction-induced heat


October 27, 2008 | 7:13 pm

"i for one hope to never, ever have to spend another minute working in 4."

Sure, i even believe i’ll be the same way, once i get used to 5.

Nevertheless no user should be forced into using other versions, than one needs just by a software upgrade without a backwards-compatible export option.
The lack of backwards compatibility was considered bad programming habit for a long time, so why not continueing on a user-friendly way like this?



grg
October 27, 2008 | 7:32 pm

Am 28.04.2008 um 21:06 schrieb Adam Murray:

> C74 said they aren’t going to support this, but have pointed out
> that it should be possible for someone to make a Max 5 -> 4
> converter. However, I think it would be a pretty huge undertaking
> and no one’s going to bother.

Someone did, and its working pretty good:

http://www.fredrikolofsson.com/pages/code-sc.html

While I can understand cy74′s decision to not release a necessarily
imperfect export to 4 option (due to new features), I’m rather
irritated by the decision to not disclose the copy-compressed format
though. Especially since a working .maxpat to .pat converter exists
now, and .maxpat is not allowed on the list for its file size.

g, g.


October 27, 2008 | 8:01 pm

Quote: jayrope wrote on Mon, 27 October 2008 14:13
—————————————————-
> Nevertheless no user should be forced into using other versions, than one needs just by a software upgrade without a backwards-compatible export option.
—————————————————-

Then rest assured my friend because no one is being forced into anything.


October 27, 2008 | 8:42 pm

Quote: jayrope wrote on Mon, 27 October 2008 12:13
—————————————————-
>
> Nevertheless no user should be forced into using other versions, than one needs just by a software upgrade without a backwards-compatible export option.
> The lack of backwards compatibility was considered bad programming habit for a long time, so why not continueing on a user-friendly way like this?
—————————————————-

But Max 5 *is* backward compatible: it can load Max 4 patches fine.

You are complaining about forward compatibility, which almost never exists because it either requires the ability to predict the future, or an enormous effort to go back and rework and re-release older versions to be compatible with new features they were never designed for.

I cannot load Logic 8 projects in Logic 7. I cannot open Microsoft Office 2007 documents in Office 2003. I cannot play Flash 9 programs in Flash player 8. The list goes on and on. This is how software works. Upgrades can be very painful. C’est la vie.

Given that, it turns out we are very fortunate to have had someone make a Max 5 to Max 4 convertor as grg mentioned:

http://www.fredrikolofsson.com/pages/code-sc.html

What I really don’t understand is: if you have to make patches for Max 4, why not just use Max 4? You can have Max 5 and 4 installed side by side. Sometimes a project’s constraints will force you to use an older version. It reminds me of doing web development work: all the time I want to use the latest and greatest browser features, but I can’t because so many people still use Internet Explorer 6. I don’t blame Microsoft for that. That’s how software works and we just have to deal with it.


October 27, 2008 | 8:58 pm

i am sorry: you’re right, Adam. i used the wrong word. I am German, English is sometimes a miracle to me.

Besides that did you notice that Logic 8 doesn’t have an import option for Logic 4.8 (OS9 sessions) anymore? really sucks.

The you and grg were mentionin seems to be leading to a Supercollider patch converting Max 5 by the way. Nevertheless: i will evaluate that.


October 27, 2008 | 9:45 pm

Quote: jayrope wrote on Mon, 27 October 2008 13:58
—————————————————-
> i am sorry: you’re right, Adam. i used the wrong word. I am German, English is sometimes a miracle to me.
>
> Besides that did you notice that Logic 8 doesn’t have an import option for Logic 4.8 (OS9 sessions) anymore? really sucks.
>
> The you and grg were mentionin seems to be leading to a Supercollider patch converting Max 5 by the way. Nevertheless: i will evaluate that.
>
—————————————————-

No worries, I agree English is very confusing and I’ve been speaking it my whole life.

Keep in mind the supercollider converter won’t work perfectly. You have to be careful to not use any Max 5-only features like transport. I actually haven’t tried the converter because I use a lot of Max 5-only features. But I’ve seen a few people say it works well, so it’s worth trying.

I still think the best bet if you need to work with people using Max 4 is to also use Max 4. Then you know the patch will work perfectly. If you like Max 5 a lot better, than maybe you can convince other people to upgrade :)


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