Steven Miller

Is there a reason that currently only drawing outlet-to-inlet 

It would be very useful and time-efficient if you could also connect 

from inlets to outlets rather than only from outlets to inlets. In 

particular, the 'shift-click' routine of connecting one-to-many would 

be very helpful when feeding multiple outlets to one inlet by shift- 

clicking and connecting one inlet to multiple outlets.

Is there a reason that currently only drawing outlet-to-inlet  
patchcord connections are possible?

It would be very useful and time-efficient if you could also connect  
from inlets to outlets rather than only from outlets to inlets. In  
particular, the 'shift-click' routine of connecting one-to-many would  
be very helpful when feeding multiple outlets to one inlet by shift- 
clicking and connecting one inlet to multiple outlets.

feature-request-patchcord-drawing

I cant count how many times Ive wished for this. I can however count 

howmany times ive asked.... you beat me to it!

On Mar 6, 2007, at 1:07 PM, Steven Miller wrote:

> Is there a reason that currently only drawing outlet-to-inlet 

> It would be very useful and time-efficient if you could also 

> connect from inlets to outlets rather than only from outlets to 

> inlets. In particular, the 'shift-click' routine of connecting one- 

> to-many would be very helpful when feeding multiple outlets to one 

> inlet by shift-clicking and connecting one inlet to multiple outlets.

I cant count how many times Ive wished for this. I can however count  
howmany times ive asked.... you beat me to it!
On Mar 6, 2007, at 1:07 PM, Steven Miller wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Is there a reason that currently only drawing outlet-to-inlet  
> patchcord connections are possible?
>
> It would be very useful and time-efficient if you could also  
> connect from inlets to outlets rather than only from outlets to  
> inlets. In particular, the 'shift-click' routine of connecting one- 
> to-many would be very helpful when feeding multiple outlets to one  
> inlet by shift-clicking and connecting one inlet to multiple outlets.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steven
>
> ----
> Steven M. Miller
>
> Home 
> SFIFEM 
> Atrium Sound Space 
> OVOS 
>
>
>

OMG, I didn't know about the shift-click routine!! Why does this only work when shift is pressed -before- clicking the outlet?? Otherwise I would have found it.

Quote: smill wrote on Tue, 06 March 2007 19:07

----------------------------------------------------

> It would be very useful and time-efficient if you could also connect 

> from inlets to outlets rather than only from outlets to inlets. In 

> particular, the 'shift-click' routine of connecting one-to-many would 

> be very helpful when feeding multiple outlets to one inlet by shift- 

> clicking and connecting one inlet to multiple outlets.

Quote: smill wrote on Tue, 06 March 2007 19:07
----------------------------------------------------
> Hi all,
>
> Is there a reason that currently only drawing outlet-to-inlet  
> patchcord connections are possible?
>
> It would be very useful and time-efficient if you could also connect  
> from inlets to outlets rather than only from outlets to inlets. In  
> particular, the 'shift-click' routine of connecting one-to-many would  
> be very helpful when feeding multiple outlets to one inlet by shift- 
> clicking and connecting one inlet to multiple outlets.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steven
>
> ----
> Steven M. Miller
>
> Home 
> SFIFEM 
> Atrium Sound Space 
> OVOS 
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------


Extras > Tips has this as well as other useful shortcuts.

At the risk of being contrarian, for the slight benefit of being able 

to connect things in reverse order, I think that it is easier to learn 

(and this is highly debatable) when this pattern is consistent with 

signal flow particularly in that it reinforces (manually) the flow of 

At the risk of being contrarian, for the slight benefit of being able 
to connect things in reverse order, I think that it is easier to learn 
(and this is highly debatable) when this pattern is consistent with 
signal flow particularly in that it reinforces (manually) the flow of 
the patch.

Well I dont work for cycling, so cant fix that! but i can suggest max tool box, its quartered the time it takes for me to make big patches, and in this case its easier for connecting multiple outs to a single in etc.

You can get it here. Though I've often also thought it would be lurvley to do things backwards!

Absolutely, for learning/teaching, the 'follow the signal/data' 

approach is preferable, in my mind. It's how I teach analog 

synthesis, audio recording/engineering/production, sound system 

design, etc., as well as MaxMSP. But, when 'programming' as opposed 

to 'learning/teaching' - short cuts that improve work flow & 

efficiency are a plus. In this case, I don't see it as a 'slight' 

benefit, but a standard way of working. When I program patches on an 

analog modular synth or connect the components of a sound system, 

there's no restriction as to which end of the patchcord I plug in 

first. No inherent reason I can see that Max enforces (as opposed to 

On Mar 6, 2007, at 1:19 PM, Peter McCulloch wrote:

> At the risk of being contrarian, for the slight benefit of being 

> able to connect things in reverse order, I think that it is easier 

> to learn (and this is highly debatable) when this pattern is 

> consistent with signal flow particularly in that it reinforces 

Absolutely, for learning/teaching, the 'follow the signal/data'  
approach is preferable, in my mind. It's how I teach analog  
synthesis, audio recording/engineering/production, sound system  
design, etc., as well as MaxMSP. But, when 'programming' as opposed  
to 'learning/teaching' - short cuts that improve work flow &  
efficiency are a plus. In this case, I don't see it as a 'slight'  
benefit, but a standard way of working. When I program patches on an  
analog modular synth or connect the components of a sound system,  
there's no restriction as to which end of the patchcord I plug in  
first. No inherent reason I can see that Max enforces (as opposed to  
merely encourages) it, either.

>
> At the risk of being contrarian, for the slight benefit of being  
> able to connect things in reverse order, I think that it is easier  
> to learn (and this is highly debatable) when this pattern is  
> consistent with signal flow particularly in that it reinforces  
> (manually) the flow of the patch.
>

This looks nice...the multiple outlets to multiple inlets workflow 

seems like a big improvement. Now, if it could handle inlets to 

On Mar 6, 2007, at 2:46 PM, Tristram Cox wrote:

> Well I dont work for cycling, so cant fix that! but i can suggest 

> max tool box, its quartered the time it takes for me to make big 

> patches, and in this case its easier for connecting multiple outs 

> You can get it here. Though I've often also thought it would be 

This looks nice...the multiple outlets to multiple inlets workflow  
seems like a big improvement. Now, if it could handle inlets to  
outlets, we'd be cooking!

>
> Well I dont work for cycling, so cant fix that! but i can suggest  
> max tool box, its quartered the time it takes for me to make big  
> patches, and in this case its easier for connecting multiple outs  
> to a single in etc.
>
> You can get it here. Though I've often also thought it would be  
> lurvley to do things backwards!
>
> http://nat.imeem.com/blogs/areO4MEW
>
> T

As I said I couldnt offer more than a suggestion of something to speed things up, alas not the requested feature.

I also agree with Smill, when I was learning max it was a benifit to connect inlets to outlets as is. Just to see the workflow thing but sometimes when connecting several complicated objects together it seems cumbersome to have to work in one direction only. Max toolbox has of course made part of this argument obsolete, once you get the hang of remembering which of the key commands to press (and you do have to use the right one - no undo as its java) it will seemlessly connect say 32 outs to 32 ins - if you can do that, do you really need to reverse the process?

HOLY S$$&# this shift click is amazing oh man what the hell I needed this soo badly so many times ahhhhh how did I not know this after 5 years!!!!!!!

Shift clicking. heh, come on, everyone should know that. Shift clicking is a necessity if you want the patch cord to go back up and around or something spiffy like that. I always felt that segmented patch cords were one of max's great strengths. But, overusing them can quickly make a patch unreadable. Try and use them sparingly :)

another useful one is the align function.

Shift clicking. heh, come on, everyone should know that. Shift clicking is a necessity if you want the patch cord to go back up and around or something spiffy like that. I always felt that segmented patch cords were one of max's great strengths.  But, overusing them can quickly make a patch unreadable.  Try and use them sparingly :)

another useful one is the align function.


Im not talking about segmented patch chords. Read the above posts. You can shift click and plug multiple chords.

Im not talking about segmented patch chords.  Read the above posts.  You can shift click and plug multiple chords.


? I think they are reffering to the multi-connect functionality of 

pre-shift, clicking an outlet and connecting to many inlets.

On Mar 8, 2007, at 12:37 AM, jamez wrote:

> Shift clicking. heh, come on, everyone should know that. Shift 

> clicking is a necessity if you want the patch cord to go back up 

> and around or something spiffy like that. I always felt that 

> segmented patch cords were one of max's great strengths. But, 

> overusing them can quickly make a patch unreadable. Try and use 

> another useful one is the align function.

? I think they are reffering to the multi-connect functionality of  
pre-shift, clicking an outlet and connecting to many inlets.

>
> Shift clicking. heh, come on, everyone should know that. Shift  
> clicking is a necessity if you want the patch cord to go back up  
> and around or something spiffy like that. I always felt that  
> segmented patch cords were one of max's great strengths.  But,  
> overusing them can quickly make a patch unreadable.  Try and use  
> them sparingly :)
>
> another useful one is the align function.

I for one, know what he's refering to. I hold down shift on perhaps 25% of all outlets. However, I don't use it to connect to multiple sources, rather to invoke segments.

I for one, know what he's refering to.  I hold down shift on perhaps 25% of all outlets.  However, I don't use it to connect to multiple sources, rather to invoke segments.


> OMG, I didn't know about the shift-click routine!! Why does this only

> work when shift is pressed -before- clicking the outlet?? Otherwise I

For me it does also work after I clicked the outlet...

And that you have to press shift before you click the inlet is obvious...

Mattijs Kneppers schrieb:
> OMG, I didn't know about the shift-click routine!! Why does this only
> work when shift is pressed -before- clicking the outlet?? Otherwise I
> would have found it.

For me it does also work after I clicked the outlet...
And that you have to press shift before you click the inlet is obvious...

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com


Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Thu, 08 March 2007 20:22

> For me it does also work after I clicked the outlet...

1) click outlet - patch cord is created and follows mouse

3) click inlet - patch cord is connected, disappears from mouse

2) click outlet - patch cord is created and follows mouse

3) click inlet - patch cord is connected and new one is created and follows mouse

4) click inlet - patch cord is connected and new one is created and follows mouse

Same holds for segmented patch cords. So this is different in your setup? On what system are you? I am on mac os 10.4.8, max 4.6.2

> And that you have to press shift before you click the inlet is obvious...

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Thu, 08 March 2007 20:22
----------------------------------------------------
> For me it does also work after I clicked the outlet...

1) click outlet - patch cord is created and follows mouse
2) press and hold shift
3) click inlet - patch cord is connected, disappears from mouse

1) press and hold shift
2) click outlet - patch cord is created and follows mouse
3) click inlet - patch cord is connected and new one is created and follows mouse
4) click inlet - patch cord is connected and new one is created and follows mouse
etc..

> And that you have to press shift before you click the inlet is obvious...
>
> Stefan
>
> -- 
> Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
> --_____-----------|--------------
> --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
> -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
> ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
>
>
----------------------------------------------------


> Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Thu, 08 March 2007 20:22

> ----------------------------------------------------

>> For me it does also work after I clicked the outlet...

> 1) click outlet - patch cord is created and follows mouse

> 3) click inlet - patch cord is connected, disappears from mouse

for me I have to do the click first, before I can press and hold shift.

The reason is probably that I always have "segmented patchcords" 

checked, I usually forget that there is an unchecked setting which in my 

Maybe its time to switch segmenting on, makes life a lot easier. (As 

long as you care about nicely aligned patchcords... ;-)

Mattijs Kneppers schrieb:
> Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Thu, 08 March 2007 20:22
> ----------------------------------------------------
>> For me it does also work after I clicked the outlet...
>
> Oh? For me it really doesn't.
>
> this is what happens:
>
> 1) click outlet - patch cord is created and follows mouse
> 2) press and hold shift
> 3) click inlet - patch cord is connected, disappears from mouse

for me I have to do the click first, before I can press and hold shift.
The reason is probably that I always have "segmented patchcords" 
checked, I usually forget that there is an unchecked setting which in my 
taste turns patching into a nightmare.

Maybe its time to switch segmenting on, makes life a lot easier. (As 
long as you care about nicely aligned patchcords... ;-)

what are you talking about. you just click and hold shift 

during a multi connect session, not click shift every time 

> For me it does also work after I clicked the outlet...
> And that you have to press shift before you click the inlet is obvious...
>
> Stefan

what are you talking about. you just click and hold shift 
during a multi connect session, not click shift every time 
you connect to another inlet.

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 12:11

> for me I have to do the click first, before I can press and hold shift.

> The reason is probably that I always have "segmented patchcords" 

Ok, that explains. I vote for this behaviour (shift after click inlet also enables multiconnect) in non-segmented mode.

> I usually forget that there is an unchecked setting which in my 

> Maybe its time to switch segmenting on, makes life a lot easier. (As 

> long as you care about nicely aligned patchcords... ;-)

The reason for me not to turn on segmenting is that it requires one more click when I want to connect without segments.

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 12:11
----------------------------------------------------
>
> for me I have to do the click first, before I can press and hold shift.
> The reason is probably that I always have "segmented patchcords" 
> checked, 

> I usually forget that there is an unchecked setting which in my 
> taste turns patching into a nightmare.
>
> Maybe its time to switch segmenting on, makes life a lot easier. (As 
> long as you care about nicely aligned patchcords... ;-)
>
> Stefan

>
> -- 
> Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
> --_____-----------|--------------
> --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
> -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
> ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
>
>
----------------------------------------------------


Quote: Roman Thilenius wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 13:48

> what are you talking about. you just click and hold shift 

> during a multi connect session, not click shift every time 

Hehe, re-read the posts above; it's about when you have to press shift. In non-segmented mode, pressing shift after clicking the inlet doesn't enable multiconnect mode, but it should.

Quote: Roman Thilenius wrote on Wed, 14 March 2007 13:48
----------------------------------------------------
> what are you talking about. you just click and hold shift 
> during a multi connect session, not click shift every time 
> you connect to another inlet.

>
>
> -110 (professional shift user)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------


> The reason for me not to turn on segmenting is that it requires one

> more click when I want to connect without segments.

The reason why I prefer segmented: I don't have to hold the button all 

the time, much less work than clicking twice, you can also first click 

and then start to think about where to connect it...

(I am just too lazy for non-segmented chords.... ;-)

Mattijs Kneppers schrieb:
> The reason for me not to turn on segmenting is that it requires one
> more click when I want to connect without segments.

The reason why I prefer segmented: I don't have to hold the button all 
the time, much less work than clicking twice, you can also first click 
and then start to think about where to connect it...
(I am just too lazy for non-segmented chords.... ;-)

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Fri, 16 March 2007 09:37

> > The reason for me not to turn on segmenting is that it requires one

> > more click when I want to connect without segments.

> The reason why I prefer segmented: I don't have to hold the button all 

> the time, much less work than clicking twice, you can also first click 

> and then start to think about where to connect it...

> (I am just too lazy for non-segmented chords.... ;-)

I want to do anything that smells like repetitive action -as fast as possible-, preferably with the keyboard. I guess it's my tracker background. Dunno how I avoided RSI all this time ;)

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Fri, 16 March 2007 09:37
----------------------------------------------------
> Mattijs Kneppers schrieb:
> > The reason for me not to turn on segmenting is that it requires one
> > more click when I want to connect without segments.
>
> The reason why I prefer segmented: I don't have to hold the button all 
> the time, much less work than clicking twice, you can also first click 
> and then start to think about where to connect it...
> (I am just too lazy for non-segmented chords.... ;-)

>
> Stefan
>
> -- 
> Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
> --_____-----------|--------------
> --(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
> -- _|_)----|-----()--------------
> ----------()--------www.ccmix.com
>
>
----------------------------------------------------


i don't use segmented cords much, i get confused when there are many segments going to one inlet and they overlap perfectly, makes it hard to see whats connected to what. i prefer making geometrical spiders webs

>i don't use segmented cords much, i get confused when there are many 

>segments going to one inlet and they overlap perfectly, makes it 

I second this - although I do use segmented cords periodically, this 

is one of the main reasons I don't like to.

Feature Request: when cords are superimposed, but do NOT go to the 

same place, have one cord appear to "jump" over the other - or just 

*some* way to distinguish their respective paths (I know about 

coloring the patchcords, but sometimes it's just too tedious to 

Take this hypothetical example - one has no idea what goes to what:

202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major 

At 9:43 AM +0000 3/16/07, bin ray wrote:
>i don't use segmented cords much, i get confused when there are many 
>segments going to one inlet and they overlap perfectly, makes it 
>hard to see whats connected to what.

I second this - although I do use segmented cords periodically, this 
is one of the main reasons I don't like to.

Feature Request:  when cords are superimposed, but do NOT go to the 
same place, have one cord appear to "jump" over the other - or just 
*some* way to distinguish their respective paths (I know about 
coloring the patchcords, but sometimes it's just too tedious to 
constantly alter their colors).

Dan
-- 
Dan Nigrin
Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major 
Malfunction
http://www.defectiverecords.com
http://www.jackosx.com

just bang the upper bang and you'll emidatly see where it goes

On 16 Mar 2007, at 12:35, Dan Nigrin wrote:

> At 9:43 AM +0000 3/16/07, bin ray wrote:

>> i don't use segmented cords much, i get confused when there are 

>> many segments going to one inlet and they overlap perfectly, makes 

>> it hard to see whats connected to what.

> I second this - although I do use segmented cords periodically, 

> this is one of the main reasons I don't like to.

> Feature Request: when cords are superimposed, but do NOT go to the 

> same place, have one cord appear to "jump" over the other - or just 

> *some* way to distinguish their respective paths (I know about 

> coloring the patchcords, but sometimes it's just too tedious to 

> Take this hypothetical example - one has no idea what goes to what:

> 202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / 

> At 9:43 AM +0000 3/16/07, bin ray wrote:
>> i don't use segmented cords much, i get confused when there are  
>> many segments going to one inlet and they overlap perfectly, makes  
>> it hard to see whats connected to what.
>
> I second this - although I do use segmented cords periodically,  
> this is one of the main reasons I don't like to.
>
> Feature Request:  when cords are superimposed, but do NOT go to the  
> same place, have one cord appear to "jump" over the other - or just  
> *some* way to distinguish their respective paths (I know about  
> coloring the patchcords, but sometimes it's just too tedious to  
> constantly alter their colors).
>
> Take this hypothetical example - one has no idea what goes to what:
>
>
>
> Dan
> -- 
> Dan Nigrin
> Defective Records
> 202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X /  
> Major Malfunction
> http://www.defectiverecords.com
> http://www.jackosx.com
>


> Hehe, re-read the posts above; it's about when you have to press shift. In non-segmented mode, pressing shift after clicking the inlet doesn't enable multiconnect mode, but it should.

i overlooked that stefan is one of those sissies who actually 

> Hehe, re-read the posts above; it's about when you have to press shift. In non-segmented mode, pressing shift after clicking the inlet doesn't enable multiconnect mode, but it should.
>

i overlooked that stefan is one of those sissies who actually 
use segmented as default.

The Shift-click tip has been waiting patiently

for you for years, sitting quietly in the Extras>Tips

patch in Max, where you might run into it even if you

The Shift-click tip has been waiting patiently
for you for years, sitting quietly in the Extras>Tips
patch in Max, where you might run into it even if you
don't believe reading documents.


Quote: Gregory Taylor wrote on Fri, 16 March 2007 20:32

> The Shift-click tip has been waiting patiently

> for you for years, sitting quietly in the Extras>Tips

feature request - patchcord drawing