File browser

Apr 28, 2008 at 6:44pm

File browser

It appears that the file browser window cannot be integrated directly into a patch… before I tear my hair out trying, is this the case?
Dragging and dropping is not an option, since on Windows, selecting a different window causes a pause in output in Jitter. Besides, dragging and dropping is like playing a piano by throwing fish at it.

#37347
Apr 28, 2008 at 8:52pm

On 2008 Apr 28, at 1:44 PM, Leo Mayberry wrote:
>
> It appears that the file browser window cannot be integrated
> directly into a patch… before I tear my hair out trying, is this
> the case?

This is correct.

> Besides, dragging and dropping is like playing a piano by throwing
> fish at it.

This sounds like a piece by La Monte Young. I would be interested in
seeing a performance!

best,
Tim

#129014
Apr 28, 2008 at 9:37pm

I always assumed that the reason Max had eschewed a file browser object was that the programmers had something better to do than build something the user could customize to their own liking (albeit cludgily and resource hoggily). But given that time was spent building this complicated file browser, why wouldn’t it be integrated as an object? Moreso, why wouldn’t it have at least some better bridging technique than dragging and dropping? A receive messages from file browser object would help.
I guess I got my hopes up when I realized you could customize the browser. I had a moment of brief excitement as I tried to select the file browser pieces and paste them into a patch. BUZZ! Wrong.
Please consider taking the components that compromise the file browser interface and creating object versions of them.

I’d furthermore like to suggest that just as a general philosophy anything that is generating content or a display of some sort be able to output that information beyond the bounds of the gui. Examples being scopes and the jweb object. Using jit.desktop as a way to capture part of the screen to get the image into a malleable format is a resource heavy and sloppy technique. Especially if people are actually using a multi-windowed environment where windows are moved about all the time (not my case, but seemingly the paradigm). Even if it was some sort of weird “gui dump” outlet and a “Gui render” object, it could be very useful. It would be much easier to just display a table than to take all the information in that table and create a text based display of that information through other objects.

Digression aside, I’d really love a more integrated approach to the file browser, otherwise I’d rather just turn it off and not have it wasting time keeping track of my content since a system or third-party browser could serve in the same capacity.
I’ve never had a problem browsing and loading patches, I’ve always had difficulty devising methods of browsing content while performing. An integrated solution from Cycling74 would be as valuable as any of the workflow improvements I’ve seen in Max 5. If they integrate the browser, I’ll rent a piano and perform the above piece for piano, fish and human. Though it sounds dangerously close to the video for “Epic.”

#129015
Apr 28, 2008 at 9:56pm

Thanks for your interest and comments. A couple of notes…

Almost everything in the file browser is made up of components you
have access to. For example, the preview area is done with a
combination of the imovie, jweb, fpic, etc. objects. The listing of
files could mostly be duplicated with jit.cellblock and the folder
object.

There are a number of things that can’t be done this way at the
moment. However we are planning to support access to the database
using the js object in the near future. This should allow you to do
all kinds of a crazy and integrated things like it sounds like you
desire.

It sounds like you are displeased with drag-and-drop. The only
alternative you mentioned was having a specially named send-receive
pair or something. That’s not an idea that had ever crossed my mind
before. I can’t promise that it will be implemented, but I’m curious
how you envision it working. Maybe something could be added down the
road. If there are other alternatives to drag and drop, I’m curious
what they are too.

Thanks for your feedback!
Tim

(and yes, I still want to see a performance of someone throwing fish
at a piano :-)

#129016
Apr 28, 2008 at 11:24pm

I did a “rant check” and tried dragging and dropping… just to make sure it wasn’t one of those things that magically works all of the sudden. The real problem is that any action that involves leaving the patch that you are using to click on another window causes Jitter to freeze as you click on the new window. So, even my send/receive idea isn’t really very useful because you’d still have to be clicking on the browser window, then going back to use any Gui elements in your patcher. The only way I can see this working is having the browser be in the patch. It sounds like there might be some way to access the query functions eventually, but I’m back to square one of using a bunch of objects to build a browser.
The day I can go to the gui menu and pick a little file browser image and drag and drop that onto a max patch, is the day I’ll be booking a venue and ordering up shad.
The only thing that got me so excited in the first place was unlocking the browser and thinking I could just copy that over to a patch.

#129017
Apr 29, 2008 at 1:36pm

Timothy Place schrieb:
> This sounds like a piece by La Monte Young. I would be interested in
> seeing a performance!

Do you know how he would get the fish into just intonation…?

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#129018
Apr 29, 2008 at 1:43pm

Leo Mayberry schrieb:
> The real problem is that any action that involves leaving the patch
> that you are using to click on another window causes Jitter to freeze
> as you click on the new window.

I thought most drag and drop is used while patching, or preparing a
patch to do its beauty. The frame drop is probably an OS issue (are you
using Mac or windows?).
I usually fill up u(bu)menus to have access to a given list of files. A
certain organisation of files is required for that, but that shouldn’t
be too hard….

In short words, I don’t see the real problem. Its sounds its a show
stopper for you, just wondering what show I am missing…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#129019
Apr 29, 2008 at 1:48pm

On 2008 Apr 29, at 8:36 AM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:
> Timothy Place schrieb:
>> This sounds like a piece by La Monte Young. I would be interested
>> in seeing a performance!
>
> Do you know how he would get the fish into just intonation…?

It’s just a matter of selecting the correct scales. :-)
Tim

#129020
Apr 29, 2008 at 2:03pm

On 29 Apr 2008, at 14:36, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

> Do you know how he would get the fish into just intonation…?

You can tune a violin, but you can’t tuna fish.

– N.

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
http://www.cassiel.com
http://www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
http://www.last.fm/music/cassiel
http://www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
http://www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
http://www.loadbang.net

#129021
Apr 29, 2008 at 2:05pm

On 29 Apr 2008, at 14:48, Timothy Place wrote:

> It’s just a matter of selecting the correct scales. :-)

I was going to say – it depends if the fish is a bass – but then, I’ve
done the Marx Bros. joke already.

– N.

Nick Rothwell – nick@cassiel.comhttp://www.cassiel.com
— open-source goodies for MaxMSP: Python, Groovy, Nixie Tubes,
— rotatable text bricks, databases: all at http://www.loadbang.net

#129022
Apr 29, 2008 at 2:13pm

On 29 avr. 08, at 16:03, Nick Rothwell wrote:

> You can tune a violin, but you can’t tuna fish.

I’m sure you can use different fishes of different sizes to produce
different pitches;-)

ej

#129023
Apr 29, 2008 at 2:59pm

boy, nothing like a couple of hours of pitching fishes!
b

On Apr 29, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Emmanuel Jourdan wrote:

> On 29 avr. 08, at 16:03, Nick Rothwell wrote:
>
>> You can tune a violin, but you can’t tuna fish.
>
>
> I’m sure you can use different fishes of different sizes to produce
> different pitches;-)
>
> ej
>
>

bruce tovsky
http://www.skeletonhome.com

“Sometimes the appropriate response to reality is to go insane.”
Philip K. Dick

#129024
Apr 29, 2008 at 3:06pm

Quote: Timothy Place wrote on Tue, 29 April 2008 07:48
—————————————————-
> On 2008 Apr 29, at 8:36 AM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:
> > Timothy Place schrieb:
> >> This sounds like a piece by La Monte Young. I would be interested
> >> in seeing a performance!
> >
> > Do you know how he would get the fish into just intonation…?
>
> It’s just a matter of selecting the correct scales. :-)
> Tim
>
>
—————————————————-

Budum dum kishhhh

#129025
Apr 29, 2008 at 3:13pm

I would suggest populating a ubumenu with your video
selections and use the File browser for building things.

While we are on the subject, is there a way I can bring
up the help file for a selected object in the file browser?
I know I could create a patcher, drag the object in, and
alt+LeftClick to get help. But it would be nice to be
able to get help in the browser.

#129026
Apr 29, 2008 at 3:14pm

On 2008 Apr 29, at 9:13 AM, Emmanuel Jourdan wrote:
> On 29 avr. 08, at 16:03, Nick Rothwell wrote:
>
>> You can tune a violin, but you can’t tuna fish.
>
> I’m sure you can use different fishes of different sizes to produce
> different pitches;-)

I think this depends whether or not the fish was raised “in sea”.
best,
Tim

#129027
Apr 29, 2008 at 4:38pm

On Apr 29, 2008, at 8:13 AM, Anthony Palomba wrote:
> While we are on the subject, is there a way I can bring
> up the help file for a selected object in the file browser?

Turn on preview in the browser, and you’ll get links to the help
patcher and the reference.

-C

Chris Muir
cbm@well.com

http://www.xfade.com

#129028
Apr 29, 2008 at 4:38pm

Converting a v4 patch to v5.

a subpatch called playplaySG1st (don’t ask!), (which lives inside a
poly~ ), contains the object [play~ #1]

If I create [poly~ playplaySG1st 2 args one] I consistently get the
message:

one:requires additional argument

If I look at the inside of the poly~ I see the object [play~ one], as
I would expect.

[play~ ] is ok with a single argument, so why the “requires
additional argument” message? There are no other objects with variable
names inside the subpatch. It’s significant, because the play~ object
isn’t working.

Que pasa????

David

#129029
Apr 29, 2008 at 4:41pm

On 2008 Apr 29, at 10:13 AM, Anthony Palomba wrote:
>
> I would suggest populating a ubumenu with your video
> selections and use the File browser for building things.
>
> While we are on the subject, is there a way I can bring
> up the help file for a selected object in the file browser?
> I know I could create a patcher, drag the object in, and
> alt+LeftClick to get help. But it would be nice to be
> able to get help in the browser.

If the preview pane is showing, there is a link there that you can
click. If the help patchers are what you are looking at in the
filebrowser then you can simply double-click them.

best,
Tim

#129030
Apr 29, 2008 at 7:43pm

Ahhhh yes.

#129031
Apr 29, 2008 at 9:53pm

>
> There are a number of things that can’t be done this way at the moment.
> However we are planning to support access to the database using the js
> object in the near future. This should allow you to do all kinds of a crazy
> and integrated things like it sounds like you desire.

I always felt that one of the things that had been missing in Max was
inbuilt access to a more powerful database, and although some of the size
restrictions for the storage objects that are available now have gone (or
are greatly increased). Seeing how well SQLite works in the browser I
welcome the fact that it will be made available in max.

pelado

#129032
Apr 29, 2008 at 10:02pm

Just to add that I created and saved a simple patch (testplay)
containing only a single [play~ #1]

Then loaded it into an empty patch with [poly~ testplay 2 args one]
and I still get the “requires additional argument” message

David

On 29 Apr 2008, at 17:38, David Stevens wrote:

> Converting a v4 patch to v5.
>
> a subpatch called playplaySG1st (don’t ask!), (which lives inside a
> poly~ ), contains the object [play~ #1]
>
> If I create [poly~ playplaySG1st 2 args one] I consistently get the
> message:
>
> one:requires additional argument
>
> If I look at the inside of the poly~ I see the object [play~ one],
> as I would expect.
>
> [play~ ] is ok with a single argument, so why the “requires
> additional argument” message? There are no other objects with
> variable names inside the subpatch. It’s significant, because the
> play~ object isn’t working.
>
> Que pasa????
>
>
> David

#129033
Apr 29, 2008 at 10:13pm

Excited about the File Browser potential.

A few questions/suggestions/requests?

#1
How do tags work? Well I think I know how they should work. How does one
tag their own files? Be nice to be able to do it from the FileBrowser in
order to build collections quickly.

#2
Multi-Select non-contiguous! And Drag create to create coll, or umenu

#3
Need AND/OR option for multiple lines of a query.

#4
Option to create read absolute path messages

#129034
May 1, 2008 at 4:03pm

Emmanuel Jourdan schrieb:
> I’m sure you can use different fishes of different sizes to produce
> different pitches;-)

Don’t mix it up with different platsches… Though if you throw them
into the piano, the tuning of the piano is probably dominant…
But I doubt La Monte Young would allow detuned fish, even if you can’t
hear it…

Detuned fish would make up a nice title for a piece…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#129035
May 8, 2008 at 6:45pm

I have a quick question about the file browser.
In the current Max 5.01(xp), if a select a file and
then press “Reveal in Explorer”, should it not bring
up windows explorer showing me the directory
containing the file. Currently it does not…

#129036
May 28, 2008 at 2:32am

I’m also very interested in how the tags thing works. It could be very powerful. I tried to see if the file browser could read some tags I made in Sound Miner and Sample Manager without too much success. Audio file metadata seems to be a wild and wooly frontier land. Can we get some clarification on how it’s supposed to work in M5?

~ Jim

#129037
May 28, 2008 at 11:56am

On 2008 May 27, at 9:32 PM, Jim Bell wrote:

> I’m also very interested in how the tags thing works. It could be
> very powerful. I tried to see if the file browser could read some
> tags I made in Sound Miner and Sample Manager without too much
> success. Audio file metadata seems to be a wild and wooly frontier
> land. Can we get some clarification on how it’s supposed to work in
> M5?

Hi,

The facilities for user-added tags have not been “unlocked” yet. They
will be made available in a future update.
best,
Tim

#129038
Jun 21, 2008 at 10:52pm

hi tim,

should we expect to see this in a “near future” or “distant future” update?

i know that it may not be possible to answer that, but it would be nice to know when we might see it and/or how it will work.

in the max 5 previews, the tags and the ability to have user defined tags (e.g., as mentioned on http://www.cycling74.com/story/2007/10/5/91222/9559 as “Moreover, you can attach tags to any file, then use the tags to keep all files belonging to a particular project together.”) was one of the major features that sold me on the upgrade, so i was disappointed when i found out i cannot yet do this.

in the meantime, any info you can give, even in the form of unofficial predictions, is most appreciated.

thanks!

#129039

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