Forums > MaxMSP

Getting glitches and crackles in Soundflower after a while …

July 5, 2007 | 9:43 am

Hi all,

hopefully anyone can help me here.
I have a Mac Pro, work with Cubase 4 and also got a Motu 828 firewire soundcard.

One of my Kontakt 2 instances is used as a standalone instance.
I route the midi from Cubase to Kontakt2 and the audio back with Soundflower into my sequencer.

Everything is smooth, fine and really easy to setup, but I have one big problem:

After around 5 minutes the samples which come from the standalone Kontakt2 start to crackle a bit and its getting worse the longer I wait. When I go on working for another 3 minutes, the signal is getting that noisy as if I would listen to a bad radio station signal. As soon as I go to the desktop (I have ASIO driver in background disabled) and go back into Cubase, everything is fine again. It seems that this is coming from Soundflower.

Does anyone of you encounter that problem too?

Since there is no FXT2 in sight and Jack OS and Kontakt 2 work together like a cat and a mouse (horrible!!!), Soundflower is my only chance to get at least a few more samples into my setup.

Also a question to the devs, might there be the chance to have a Soundlower soon which can handle more than just 8 stereo tracks?

Thanks a lot for your time!

Alex


July 5, 2007 | 10:40 am

I have had similar problems with soundflower when using it in an aggregate device on a G5 together with the M-Audio FW410.

On Intel Mac these problems don’t seem to occur and on a G5 without aggregate device but with soundflowerbed these problems aren’t there either. With soundflowerbed there is another problem: an increasing latency. For more info:

http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=86352&rid=3579&S=8a2b800710bbbbaa41fc0144bc6b62d

Soudflower is a very nice tool. It would be great if these problems could be fixed!

Mattijs

Quote: Waywyn wrote on Thu, 05 July 2007 11:43
—————————————————-
> Hi all,
>
> hopefully anyone can help me here.
> I have a Mac Pro, work with Cubase 4 and also got a Motu 828 firewire soundcard.
>
> One of my Kontakt 2 instances is used as a standalone instance.
> I route the midi from Cubase to Kontakt2 and the audio back with Soundflower into my sequencer.
>
> Everything is smooth, fine and really easy to setup, but I have one big problem:
>
> After around 5 minutes the samples which come from the standalone Kontakt2 start to crackle a bit and its getting worse the longer I wait. When I go on working for another 3 minutes, the signal is getting that noisy as if I would listen to a bad radio station signal. As soon as I go to the desktop (I have ASIO driver in background disabled) and go back into Cubase, everything is fine again. It seems that this is coming from Soundflower.
>
> Does anyone of you encounter that problem too?
>
> Since there is no FXT2 in sight and Jack OS and Kontakt 2 work together like a cat and a mouse (horrible!!!), Soundflower is my only chance to get at least a few more samples into my setup.
>
> Also a question to the devs, might there be the chance to have a Soundlower soon which can handle more than just 8 stereo tracks?
>
>
> Thanks a lot for your time!
>
> Alex
—————————————————-


July 5, 2007 | 10:19 pm

Alex Pfeffer schrieb:
> After around 5 minutes the samples which come from the standalone
> Kontakt2 start to crackle a bit and its getting worse the longer I
> wait. When I go on working for another 3 minutes, the signal is
> getting that noisy as if I would listen to a bad radio station
> signal.

It sounds like a bug related to 32-bit floating point resolution.
Exactly the same happens if you want to navigate within a soundfile
which exceeds the duration of about 6 minutes…

It should give the developers enough hints to fix it…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


July 6, 2007 | 6:28 am

I have a similar problem. If I route a virtual stand alone synth into peak with soundflower 2 channel, it starts making pops and buffer related click sounds after several minutes. Since Im usually using this to just record synth jams and sample them its not too much of a problem, but when Im trying to get long evolving textures it can be a pain.

G5 dual 2ghz , 1gb ddr sdram. latest soundflower, running Korg Legacy ms20 into bias peak.


September 21, 2007 | 12:43 pm

any news on this?

Soundflower is really THE best program available for routing standalone plugins, since Jack OS really gives me headaches with Kontakt …

… but with the ongoing crackling it isn’t really fun to work, since you always have to close or minimize the sequencer and come back to it.

Is this such a hard bug to find?


September 21, 2007 | 4:54 pm

keep the signal vector size and jack vector size below 512 – that helps.

Why not jack? I’ve had good results with it – on OS X see QJackCtl
for a better jack gui interface

cheers
evan

On Sep 21, 2007, at 1:43 PM, Alex Pfeffer wrote:

>
> any news on this?
>
> Soundflower is really THE best program available for routing
> standalone plugins, since Jack OS really gives me headaches with
> Kontakt …
>
> … but with the ongoing crackling it isn’t really fun to work,
> since you always have to close or minimize the sequencer and come
> back to it.
>
> Is this such a hard bug to find?


September 22, 2007 | 8:15 am

well i tried jack before, but i had serious issues with kontakt 2

k2 needed alone around 5 minutes to load up, then when importing a sampleprogram it was again 2 min …

a lot of crashes with cubase 4 and simply not able to use it. just a complete pain in the a** :)

what sampler do you use?


September 23, 2007 | 9:33 am

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Fri, 06 July 2007 00:19
—————————————————-
> Alex Pfeffer schrieb:
> > After around 5 minutes the samples which come from the standalone
> > Kontakt2 start to crackle a bit and its getting worse the longer I
> > wait. When I go on working for another 3 minutes, the signal is
> > getting that noisy as if I would listen to a bad radio station
> > signal.
>
> It sounds like a bug related to 32-bit floating point resolution.
> Exactly the same happens if you want to navigate within a soundfile
> which exceeds the duration of about 6 minutes…
>
> It should give the developers enough hints to fix it…

Another hint: this problem only exists on Gx processors, not on MacPro’s. Confirmed, Waywyn?

Mattijs


September 23, 2007 | 10:49 am

Sorry, but no.

IntelMAC Pro 8core 3Ghz


September 23, 2007 | 11:56 am

Quote: Waywyn wrote on Sun, 23 September 2007 12:49
—————————————————-
> Sorry, but no.
>
> IntelMAC Pro 8core 3Ghz
—————————————————-

Ah, that’s interesting. Maybe this has something to do with the way I use soundflower? When I use it inside an aggregate device, this problem occurs only on the G5′s we have, not on the MacPro’s.

Mattijs


September 23, 2007 | 5:11 pm

Mttaijs, thanks for your anwer again .. that seems quite interesing. Can you maybe give me some details? Buffersize, sequencer, soundcard, etc.

It really drives me mad, that I can’t compose and work longer than 5 min on one bit until the external standalone K2′s start to crackle.

The only thing which really helps is to activate "disable ASIO driver in background" in Cubase and then "visit" the finder or the desktop in general from time to time.

As soon as I come back to Cubase, everything works alright.

Is there maybe anything in SD what I can do or adjust to get this crackling away?


September 23, 2007 | 5:37 pm

The aggregate device contains soundflower 16 ch and an maudio firewire 410. I use the aggregate device to communicate between max and logic. This works well with all buffersize settings (standard is 512 samples in both logic and max).

Never tried cubase, dunno what trouble steinberg added by writing their asio wrapper..

Mattijs

Quote: Waywyn wrote on Sun, 23 September 2007 19:11
—————————————————-
> Mttaijs, thanks for your anwer again .. that seems quite interesing. Can you maybe give me some details? Buffersize, sequencer, soundcard, etc.
>
> It really drives me mad, that I can’t compose and work longer than 5 min on one bit until the external standalone K2′s start to crackle.
>
> The only thing which really helps is to activate "disable ASIO driver in background" in Cubase and then "visit" the finder or the desktop in general from time to time.
>
> As soon as I come back to Cubase, everything works alright.
>
> Is there maybe anything in SD what I can do or adjust to get this crackling away?
—————————————————-


September 25, 2007 | 6:56 pm

evan.raskob [lists] schrieb:
> Why not jack? I’ve had good results with it – on OS X see QJackCtl for a
> better jack gui interface

Could you point us to the OS X version of QJackCtl? I found only source
distributions for Linux… Or if you compiled a binary yourself could
you share it?…

I was till now only using JackPilot, which is a bit confusing, but
elsewise works fine…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


September 25, 2007 | 8:40 pm

You can get a UB version of QJackCtl from the Ardour site:

http://ardour.org/requirements_osx

Also note that the the original problem with Kontakt2 that Alex was
having with Kontakt2 and Jack that started this thread off, I’ve not
been able to replicate myself with the latest Kontakt2; Alex is
upgrading his version to the latest to see if that solves the problem.

Dan

At 8:56 PM +0200 9/25/07, Stefan Tiedje wrote:
>evan.raskob [lists] schrieb:
>>Why not jack? I’ve had good results with it – on OS X see QJackCtl
>>for a better jack gui interface
>
>Could you point us to the OS X version of QJackCtl? I found only
>source distributions for Linux… Or if you compiled a binary
>yourself could you share it?…
>
>I was till now only using JackPilot, which is a bit confusing, but
>elsewise works fine…
>
>Stefan
>
>–
>Stefan Tiedje————x——-
>–_____———–|————–
>–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
>– _|_)—-|—–()————–
>———-()——–www.ccmix.com
>
>


Dan Nigrin
Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major
Malfunction
http://www.defectiverecords.com

http://www.jackosx.com


September 26, 2007 | 10:59 am

Thanks again,

I was using the pilot all the time, but the QJackCtl is new to me.
I will try this also.

The only problem I have is, how do I load and install that?
All I see on the download page is a little tar.gz file but I don’t quite understand the installation procedure. Do I have to type those commands in the console?

When I extract these files, all I see are Win32 files and other stuff which is kinda not MAC :)

Thanks for all your help!!


September 26, 2007 | 11:41 am

You downloaded the wrong thing – you want one of the precompiled
binaries – the links are the ones that end with .dmg. Just download
the .dmg, double click, and you will see a regular OS X application.

Dan

At 4:59 AM -0600 9/26/07, Alex Pfeffer wrote:
>Thanks again,
>
>I was using the pilot all the time, but the QJackCtl is new to me.
>I will try this also.
>
>The only problem I have is, how do I load and install that?
>All I see on the download page is a little tar.gz file but I don’t
>quite understand the installation procedure. Do I have to type those
>commands in the console?
>
>When I extract these files, all I see are Win32 files and other
>stuff which is kinda not MAC :)
>
>Thanks for all your help!!


Dan Nigrin
Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major
Malfunction
http://www.defectiverecords.com

http://www.jackosx.com


September 26, 2007 | 2:32 pm

holy smokes, you must be really stupid to overread the link for the .dmg file.

Sorry downloaded and installed it. About to try later without JackPilot.

Thanks again for your help, maybe that’s the resolution to my problems!! :)


March 6, 2008 | 11:08 pm

i have the exact same problem..
i can use soundflower (soundflowerbed) for about 2-5 minutes before the sound gradually becomes more and more distorted as the volume is getting lower until there is no sound at all.. if i choose my soundcard as output again in soundflower bed sound comes back without distorsion and works for about 2-5 minutes again until same thing happens over and over again..

im on a macbook pro (v1,1) using a m-audio fw410 firewire soundcard..


March 7, 2008 | 8:41 pm

Quote: yoki wrote on Fri, 07 March 2008 00:08
—————————————————-
> i have the exact same problem..
> i can use soundflower (soundflowerbed) for about 2-5 minutes before the sound gradually becomes more and more distorted as the volume is getting lower until there is no sound at all.. if i choose my soundcard as output again in soundflower bed sound comes back without distorsion and works for about 2-5 minutes again until same thing happens over and over again..
>
> im on a macbook pro (v1,1) using a m-audio fw410 firewire soundcard..
>
>
—————————————————-

So did you try the aggregate device? That solution works for me, as long as clock is set to soundflower.

Mattijs


March 8, 2008 | 2:10 pm

Sorry, but how do you set the clock to Soundlower?
Everytime I go to the aggregate device I can’t choose anything and the little windows says "standard".


March 8, 2008 | 2:30 pm

Quote: Waywyn wrote on Sat, 08 March 2008 15:10
—————————————————-
> Sorry, but how do you set the clock to Soundlower?
> Everytime I go to the aggregate device I can’t choose anything and the little windows says "standard".
—————————————————-

Here is a description by apple:

http://www.apple.com/ca/pro/techniques/aggregateaudio/

In my case I use my M-Audio FW 410 and Soundflower 16ch and set the clock to Soundflower 16ch.

Mattijs


March 8, 2008 | 2:34 pm

i have fiddled around a bit with aggregate device but it’s the same thing there.. is this a bug in soundflower or is it a bug in the fw410 driver?


March 8, 2008 | 2:37 pm

+ when playing around with aggregate device soundflowerbed goes infinite beach ball sometimes..


March 8, 2008 | 2:37 pm

Hey Mattjis and thanks, but I am aware how to set up an aggregate device. I use my MOTU 828 plus the 16channels of Soundflower to use a standalone version of Kontakt 2 …

… the thing is, I simply can’t adjust the clock. It is set to internal and the window is greyed out.

Did I miss something?


March 8, 2008 | 2:38 pm

… or wait, do you mean I have to set the internal clock of the MOTU to soundflower???


March 8, 2008 | 3:36 pm

Quote: yoki wrote on Sat, 08 March 2008 15:37
—————————————————-
> + when playing around with aggregate device soundflowerbed goes infinite beach ball sometimes..
—————————————————-

Ok, wait. When you use an Aggregate device, you shouldn’t need SoundflowerBED anymore. Only the Soundflower driver. SoundflowerBED has the problem of increasing latency. Don’t use it.

Mattijs


March 8, 2008 | 3:38 pm

Quote: Waywyn wrote on Sat, 08 March 2008 15:38
—————————————————-
> … or wait, do you mean I have to set the internal clock of the MOTU to soundflower???
—————————————————-

No I mean the aggregate device clock as shown on this image.

Mattijs


March 8, 2008 | 3:48 pm

Quote: Mattijs wrote on Sat, 08 March 2008 08:38
—————————————————-
> Quote: Waywyn wrote on Sat, 08 March 2008 15:38
> —————————————————-
> > … or wait, do you mean I have to set the internal clock of the MOTU to soundflower???
> —————————————————-
>
> No I mean the aggregate device clock as shown on this image.
>
> Mattijs
—————————————————-

Oh I see, thanks a lot!!
Well, I kinda did it another way, I was loading the MOTU properties and put the clock in this window to Soundflower. A bit circumstancial than yours but probably the same effect.

Still the boring thing is to do realtime rendering.

Generally I found a good workaround for my whole problem.
I am using Kontakt2 until I reach the 10.000 files/2gb limit … the Gold XP instruments I load into the Kompakt players, because since Leopard they already work again and don’t use the RAM of Cubase but from an app called BitBridge.

Also I took advantage of the SE downloadable instruments and use the VI Ensemble player. This player uses the RAM from the system, so I can also load up 2GB there.

Now I am able to use kind of 6GB for the whole template and everything works so far … but I definitely have to do some more tests.

Hopefully 64bit Cubase and Kontakt3 will be released soon :)

But thanks Mattijs for your help!!! The clock setting thing did it for me! Maybe the BitBridge is not really stable so I can go back to Soundflower without problems :)


April 14, 2013 | 11:24 pm

Very interesting thread.
From my research Mattijs’ idea of an aggregate dev with a FW410 looks good until you get to OS X 10.8.2. M-Audio aren’t supporting it after that,
Anyone had any experience with an M-Track or Profire interfaces with SF in an aggregate dev? I’m having some Jack build issues, and frankly after this much research, either Jack or SF working would do me fine. Can’t get satisfactory results from either now though.

For £79, M-Track might be worth the punt.


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