Forums > MaxMSP

guitar input in max

January 15, 2007 | 12:56 pm

when i run my guitar through the max and through overdrive the guitar sounds flat. How can i equalise this ?


January 15, 2007 | 1:10 pm


January 15, 2007 | 2:11 pm

On 15 janv. 07, at 13:56, Toiletmuck wrote:

> when i run my guitar through the max and through overdrive the guitar
> sounds flat. How can i equalise this ?

What overdrive do you use? [overdrive~]? I could never get a sound as
nice as an EH metal muff with MSP…

I may be obvious, but turning on overdrive in the Options menu won’t
add overdrive in the sound ;-)

_____________________________
Patrick Delges

Centre de Recherches et de Formation Musicales de Wallonie asbl

http://users.skynet.be/crfmw/max


January 15, 2007 | 4:49 pm

yeh i know that :)

also, when using a guitar as input does the sound have to be sampled(recorded) before it can be manipulated etc?


January 15, 2007 | 5:43 pm

>
>also, when using a guitar as input does the sound have to be
>sampled(recorded) before it can be manipulated etc?

no!!!

i use plug my bass in my computer since years, no need to record !!!
(but you can, of course)

kasper

Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart


January 15, 2007 | 6:11 pm

how exactly do you do it then?


January 15, 2007 | 6:43 pm

>how exactly do you do it then?

guitar to msp???

guitar->(preamp)->sound card->maxmsp’s adc~

and then whatever you want to do to your sound

of course at the end -> dac~ -> sound card -> PA or amp

kasper


January 15, 2007 | 10:32 pm

specifically, working the guitar to play reverse notes etc?


January 15, 2007 | 11:05 pm

for guitars you need a Hi-Z Input on your Soundcard or mixer to get a better preguitarsound.

and a patch like this:

max v2;
#N vpatcher 64 30 935 747;
#P origin 0 -6;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 608 264 28 9109513 adc~;
#P newex 91 420 46 9109513 loadbang;
#P user uslider 441 127 13 57 501 1 0 6;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 10.;
#P comment 456 187 62 9109514 Dry;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P newex 368 468 37 9109513 / 500.1;
#P newex 233 499 27 9109513 *~;
#P user uslider 368 127 13 57 501 1 0 6;
#P message 91 460 55 9109513 set recme1;
#P hidden message 398 567 23 9109513 120;
#P number 318 184 35 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P message 269 369 16 9109513 -1;
#P newex 77 270 45 9109513 loadbang;
#P toggle 316 400 15 0;
#P message 316 422 41 9109513 loop $1;
#P newex 441 468 37 9109513 / 500.1;
#P newex 441 499 27 9109513 *~;
#P toggle 77 305 15 0;
#P message 77 326 41 9109513 loop $1;
#P newex 316 331 45 9109513 loadbang;
#P user gain~ 458 551 13 35 120 5 1.071519 1. 600.;
#P user gain~ 440 551 14 36 120 5 1.071519 1. 600.;
#P hidden newex 370 619 44 9109513 delay 20;
#P hidden newex 370 591 45 9109513 loadbang;
#P hidden message 370 643 65 9109513 startwindow;
#P newex 442 654 28 9109513 dac~;
#P newex 269 399 27 9109513 sig~;
#P toggle 127 326 15 0;
#P newex 233 463 76 9109513 groove~ recme1;
#P newex 121 396 96 9109513 buffer~ recme1 2000;
#P newex 142 368 73 9109513 record~ recme1;
#P comment 144 326 100 9109513 record on/off;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 10.;
#P comment 383 187 45 9109514 Wet;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P comment 317 164 39 9109513 Lenght;
#P fasten 21 0 16 0 82 285 82 285;
#P connect 16 0 15 0;
#P connect 31 0 25 0;
#P fasten 4 1 25 0 212 450 96 450;
#P fasten 21 0 6 0 82 296 132 296;
#P fasten 32 0 3 0 613 362 147 362;
#P fasten 6 0 3 0 132 349 147 349;
#P fasten 15 0 3 0 82 349 147 349;
#P fasten 7 0 5 0 274 440 238 440;
#P fasten 19 0 5 0 321 455 238 455;
#P fasten 28 0 27 0 373 493 238 493;
#P connect 5 0 27 0;
#P fasten 14 0 22 0 321 354 274 354;
#P fasten 22 0 7 0 274 387 274 387;
#P fasten 23 0 5 2 323 221 304 221;
#P fasten 14 0 20 0 321 356 321 356;
#P connect 20 0 19 0;
#P fasten 26 0 28 0 373 458 373 458;
#P hidden connect 10 0 11 0;
#P hidden connect 11 0 9 0;
#P hidden connect 10 0 24 0;
#P fasten 17 0 12 0 446 534 445 534;
#P fasten 27 0 12 0 238 534 445 534;
#P hidden connect 24 0 12 0;
#P connect 30 0 18 0;
#P fasten 32 0 17 0 613 490 446 490;
#P connect 18 0 17 0;
#P fasten 12 0 8 0 445 631 447 631;
#P hidden fasten 9 0 8 0 375 662 447 662;
#P fasten 17 0 13 0 446 534 463 534;
#P fasten 27 0 13 0 238 534 463 534;
#P hidden connect 12 1 13 0;
#P fasten 13 0 8 1 463 631 465 631;
#P pop;


January 16, 2007 | 4:19 am

> specifically, working the guitar to play reverse notes etc?

The last poster was telling you what you need to do to
get an input signal into your patch. For this bit, you’ll
need to spend some time in the tutorials and learn how
to actually program Max/MSP. Starting there would be a
good idea, because otherwise you’ll have little or no
ability to make any sense of whatever else you get.


January 16, 2007 | 10:58 am

yes i know how to do that, ive got the guitar running through it and i know how to manipulate the sound. the only problem i can see is that in order to reverse notes you need to sample the guitar then revese the playback.


January 16, 2007 | 3:56 pm

Are you using a preamp of any kind or using max for everything? As max is
slower than a direct signal, I find it unnerving to have all of my signal be
a few milliseconds behind; thus, I use a wet/dry paradigm at the board.
Also, Line 6 does a better job with Chebychev polynomials :)

This is all moot if you’re trying to build an amp simulator. In that case,
roll off some lows (hipass set to 100-150Hz) and boost between 300-600Hz as
a starting point, but there is still a latency issue.

good luck

Chapman

On 1/15/07, Toiletmuck wrote:
>
>
> when i run my guitar through the max and through overdrive the guitar
> sounds flat. How can i equalise this ?
>


January 16, 2007 | 8:28 pm

>roll off some lows (hipass set to 100-150Hz) and
>boost between 300-600Hz as a starting point, but there is still a
>latency issue.
>

I never felt a problem with this, playing bassComputer since years

same goes with Guitar Rig – it might be because I use a RME card, but
i also used M-audio (and digi as well)

____

however a preamp is really needed, I agree

best

kasper


January 16, 2007 | 8:40 pm

im using a mackie spike… and a novice at this program so could you explain that in a simpler way :D


January 16, 2007 | 9:28 pm

>yes i know how to do that, ive got the guitar running through it and
>i know how to manipulate the sound. the only problem i can see is
>that in order to reverse notes you need to sample the guitar then
>revese the playback.

i’ve done something like this years ago (never really used it) – if i
remember well, it was 2 buffers – i was writing into them and reading
them altenatively…

not super easy but possible and still real time – so yes it is like
"sampling" but not quite

best & good luck

kasper


January 17, 2007 | 8:57 pm

is there any way of making a ‘real time’ pitchshifter


January 17, 2007 | 10:37 pm

Quote: Nano59 wrote on Wed, 17 January 2007 21:57
—————————————————-
> is there any way of making a ‘real time’ pitchshifter
—————————————————-

Have you tried "pitchshifting-playground.pat"?

I suggest to search for ‘pitch shifter’ and ‘pitch shifting’ at:

http://www.maxobjects.com

Otherwise, you could look for some plug-ins at:

http://www.kvraudio.com/get.php

If you’re on Mac, "Octave Shifter" & "Diatonic Shifter":
< http://www.ffnn.nl/pages/projects/audio-units.php>

Bye,
PG


January 18, 2007 | 1:08 am


January 18, 2007 | 10:54 am

>> is there any way of making a ‘real time’ pitchshifter
—————————————————-
jmb wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 02:08
—————————————————-
> did you try gizmo~ ?

Very good sound (fbinshift~ too), but not fast enough
when playing guitar.
(And I’m playing guitar too.)

> there is a granular synthesis approach…
> http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~nsakonda/maxpatch.html

Noisy for a guitar, like the "Frequency Shift" Pluggo.

The faster on Mac is "Diatonic Shifter" (AU only, freeware):
< http://www.ffnn.nl/pages/projects/audio-units/diatonic-shifter.php>

Scales presets by me:
<
http://www.ffnn.nl/pages/projects/audio-units/diatonic-shifter/presets.php>

2 little demos here:
<
http://www.open-tuning.com/mp/Oriental-sample.m4a>
<
http://www.open-tuning.com/mp/Ritusen-sample.m4a>

A musical rehearsal before a show (raw mix):
<
http://www.open-tuning.com/mp/Little-Indian.mp4>

HTH,
Philippe


January 18, 2007 | 1:35 pm

another quick query:

ive made a realtime sampler but the timing of the samples often goes astray, is there a way of synchronising them?


January 19, 2007 | 2:12 am

Nano59 wrote on Thu, 18 January 2007 14:35
—————————————————-
> another quick query:
>
> ive made a realtime sampler but the timing of the samples
> often goes astray, is there a way of synchronising them?
—————————————————-

Probably!
Could you drop a patch illustrating the prob?
(and some guitars around me)

Bye,
PG (is a nice and strong English tea for this night ;-)


January 19, 2007 | 11:07 am

thanks, i do like tea….

#X range 0. 1.2;
#X domain 0. 22050.;
#X done;
#P user gain~ 605 441 27 58 158 0 1.071519 7.94321 10.;
#P user ezdac~ 588 566 632 599 0;
#P flonum 640 244 35 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P hidden newex 674 412 69 9109513 snapshot~ 100;
#B color 5;
#P flonum 726 173 35 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P flonum 700 150 35 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 14.;
#P flonum 775 209 72 14 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 255 189 156 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P flonum 673 131 35 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P message 566 88 26 9109513 read;
#P hidden newex 785 273 25 9109513 sig~;
#P hidden newex 579 409 70 9109513 groove~ zwei 2;
#B color 5;
#P message 569 174 38 9109513 loop $1;
#P hidden newex 566 105 59 9109513 buffer~ zwei;
#P toggle 569 140 28 0;
#P comment 706 131 48 9109513 start time;
#P comment 852 212 73 9109513 playpack speed;
#B color 2;
#P comment 733 150 66 9109513 loop start time;
#P comment 759 173 63 9109513 loop end time;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 36.;
#P comment 742 80 30 9109540 2;
#P user panel 524 48 13 669;
#X brgb 191 191 191;
#X frgb 0 0 0;
#X border 1;
#X rounded 0;
#X shadow 0;
#X done;
#P hidden connect 36 0 32 0;
#P fasten 31 0 33 0 131 180 131 180;
#P hidden fasten 37 0 34 0 235 294 141 294;
#P hidden fasten 33 0 34 0 131 245 141 245;
#P hidden fasten 35 0 34 0 347 333 141 333;
#P hidden connect 44 0 43 0;
#P hidden connect 34 0 44 0;
#P hidden fasten 39 0 34 1 262 290 171 290;
#P hidden connect 44 0 43 1;
#P hidden fasten 40 0 34 2 288 285 201 285;
#P hidden connect 41 0 42 0;
#P hidden connect 34 2 41 0;
#P hidden connect 46 0 38 0;
#P hidden connect 49 0 38 0;
#P hidden fasten 34 0 45 0 141 317 337 317;
#P hidden fasten 38 0 35 0 337 229 347 229;
#P hidden connect 11 0 7 0;
#P fasten 6 0 8 0 574 170 574 170;
#P hidden fasten 12 0 9 0 678 284 584 284;
#P hidden fasten 8 0 9 0 574 235 584 235;
#P hidden fasten 10 0 9 0 790 323 584 323;
#P hidden connect 19 0 18 0;
#P hidden connect 9 0 19 0;
#P hidden fasten 14 0 9 1 705 280 614 280;
#P hidden connect 19 0 18 1;
#P hidden fasten 15 0 9 2 731 275 644 275;
#P hidden connect 16 0 17 0;
#P hidden connect 9 2 16 0;
#P hidden connect 24 0 13 0;
#P hidden connect 21 0 13 0;
#P hidden fasten 9 0 20 0 584 307 780 307;
#P hidden fasten 13 0 10 0 780 219 790 219;
#P pop;


January 19, 2007 | 4:22 pm

also when i put my guitar through the patch there is a really horrible crackling sound over the top, anyway to reduce that?


January 20, 2007 | 8:08 am

I’ll come back to you asap!
Philippe


January 20, 2007 | 11:48 am

Nano59 wrote on Fri, 19 January 2007 12:07
—————————————————-
> thanks, i do like tea….

;-)

Prob, your patch is truncated, both onboard and email.
Could you post it as attachment?
(from your X-mailer or from an upload in your web browser)
Bye,
Philippe
—————————————————-
#X range 0. 1.2;
#X domain 0. 22050.;
#X done;
#P user gain~ 605 441 27 58 158 0 1.071519 7.94321 10.;
#P user ezdac~ 588 566 632 599 0;
#P flonum 640 244 35 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P hidden newex 674 412 69 9109513 snapshot~ 100;
#B color 5;
#P flonum 726 173 35 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P flonum 700 150 35 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 14.;
#P flonum 775 209 72 14 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 255 189 156 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 9.;
#P flonum 673 131 35 9 0 0 0 139 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P message 566 88 26 9109513 read;
#P hidden newex 785 273 25 9109513 sig~;
#P hidden newex 579 409 70 9109513 groove~ zwei 2;
#B color 5;
#P message 569 174 38 9109513 loop $1;
#P hidden newex 566 105 59 9109513 buffer~ zwei;
#P toggle 569 140 28 0;
#P comment 706 131 48 9109513 start time;
#P comment 852 212 73 9109513 playpack speed;
#B color 2;
#P comment 733 150 66 9109513 loop start time;
#P comment 759 173 63 9109513 loop end time;
#P window setfont "Sans Serif" 36.;
#P comment 742 80 30 9109540 2;
#P user panel 524 48 13 669;
#X brgb 191 191 191;
#X frgb 0 0 0;
#X border 1;
#X rounded 0;
#X shadow 0;
#X done;
#P hidden connect 36 0 32 0;
#P fasten 31 0 33 0 131 180 131 180;
#P hidden fasten 37 0 34 0 235 294 141 294;
#P hidden fasten 33 0 34 0 131 245 141 245;
#P hidden fasten 35 0 34 0 347 333 141 333;
#P hidden connect 44 0 43 0;
#P hidden connect 34 0 44 0;
#P hidden fasten 39 0 34 1 262 290 171 290;
#P hidden connect 44 0 43 1;
#P hidden fasten 40 0 34 2 288 285 201 285;
#P hidden connect 41 0 42 0;
#P hidden connect 34 2 41 0;
#P hidden connect 46 0 38 0;
#P hidden connect 49 0 38 0;
#P hidden fasten 34 0 45 0 141 317 337 317;
#P hidden fasten 38 0 35 0 337 229 347 229;
#P hidden connect 11 0 7 0;
#P fasten 6 0 8 0 574 170 574 170;
#P hidden fasten 12 0 9 0 678 284 584 284;
#P hidden fasten 8 0 9 0 574 235 584 235;
#P hidden fasten 10 0 9 0 790 323 584 323;
#P hidden connect 19 0 18 0;
#P hidden connect 9 0 19 0;
#P hidden fasten 14 0 9 1 705 280 614 280;
#P hidden connect 19 0 18 1;
#P hidden fasten 15 0 9 2 731 275 644 275;
#P hidden connect 16 0 17 0;
#P hidden connect 9 2 16 0;
#P hidden connect 24 0 13 0;
#P hidden connect 21 0 13 0;
#P hidden fasten 9 0 20 0 584 307 780 307;
#P hidden fasten 13 0 10 0 780 219 790 219;
#P pop;


January 20, 2007 | 1:39 pm

also, the input loop seems to have stopped working :/

+ is there a way to stop the crackling when patches run?


January 21, 2007 | 1:53 pm

yeh if anyone could assist me in making a pitchshifter than works realtime with a guitar input, that’d be great. The one i have at the moment always has a slight delay :/


January 21, 2007 | 2:16 pm

maybe the shifter~
from
http://web.media.mit.edu/~tristan/
is faster.


January 21, 2007 | 2:59 pm

On Jan 21, 2007, at 8:53 AM, Toiletmuck wrote:
> yeh if anyone could assist me in making a pitchshifter than works
> realtime with a guitar input, that’d be great.

My granular toolkit has one. Look for [gran.pitch.live~]. URL below.

——
Nathan Wolek, PhD
nathan@lowkeydigitalstudio.com

http://www.lowkeydigitalstudio.com


January 22, 2007 | 3:04 am

Quote: nathan wolek wrote on Sun, 21 January 2007 07:59
—————————————————-
> On Jan 21, 2007, at 8:53 AM, Toiletmuck wrote:
> > yeh if anyone could assist me in making a pitchshifter than works
> > realtime with a guitar input, that’d be great.
>
> My granular toolkit has one. Look for [gran.pitch.live~]. URL below.
>
> ——
> Nathan Wolek, PhD
> nathan@lowkeydigitalstudio.com
> http://www.lowkeydigitalstudio.com
>
>
>
>
—————————————————-

could you possible attach the patch file please, i downloaded the correct file off your site but i dont know which file is the correct one.


January 22, 2007 | 5:06 am

On Jan 21, 2007, at 10:04 PM, Toiletmuck wrote:
> could you possible attach the patch file please, i downloaded the
> correct file off your site but i dont know which file is the
> correct one.

If you are on the mac, the abstractions/readme/etc are only in the
CFM version. I meant the UB download as an update for existing
users. I need to update the download so that all are included.
This is confusing too many people.

——————-
Nathan Wolek, PhD — nwolek@stetson.edu
Assistant Professor of Music Technology
Stetson University – DeLand, FL

http://www.nathanwolek.com


January 22, 2007 | 6:42 am

I would like to write a patch that does a walking jazz bass line. That is to
say,
a patch that knows the chord structure and improvises notes that fall within
some mode that goes with the current chord. Does anyone have any
information or articles that could help me develop such a patch?

Thanks,
Anthony


January 22, 2007 | 1:35 pm

Anthony –

We cover some similar concepts in a few of our classes, here are some
on-line links with basic patches, etc.:

http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/courses/g6610/fall2005/week3/index.html
http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/courses/g6610/fall2005/week6/index.html

http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/courses/g6610/week3/index.html

Also, John Clavin has realized some ‘walking bass’ algorithms in JSyn,
it shouldn’t be too hard to get into mxj:

http://www.algorithmicjazz.com/

I used to write about some of this stuff back in the olden days (like
early 1990′s), here’s a short paper describing some of that work:

http://music.columbia.edu/~brad/writing/papes/performance_model.html

brad

http://music.columbia.edu/~brad/

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007, Anthony Palomba wrote:

> I would like to write a patch that does a walking jazz bass line. That is to
> say,
> a patch that knows the chord structure and improvises notes that fall within
> some mode that goes with the current chord. Does anyone have any
> information or articles that could help me develop such a patch?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Anthony
>
>


January 22, 2007 | 4:43 pm

Toiletmuck wrote:
> also when i put my guitar through the patch there is a really
> horrible crackling sound over the top, anyway to reduce that?

turn down the volume (in the patch)…


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


January 22, 2007 | 5:08 pm

>> also when i put my guitar through the patch there is a really
>> horrible crackling sound over the top, anyway to reduce that?
> turn down the volume (in the patch)…


January 22, 2007 | 7:03 pm

how exactly do you mess with the volume, sorry im a bit of an idiot :S


January 22, 2007 | 8:21 pm

*~ ?

On Jan 22, 2007, at 2:03 PM, Toiletmuck wrote:

>
> how exactly do you mess with the volume, sorry im a bit of an idiot :S

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info


January 22, 2007 | 8:24 pm

> how exactly do you mess with the volume, sorry im a bit of an idiot :S

*~ or gain~ or check your system preferences for input volume.

I didn’t mean to make fun of a newbie sorry… just unavoidable
musician humor.

-matt


January 22, 2007 | 8:37 pm

naa its ok mate i wasnt offended :P


January 22, 2007 | 11:58 pm

If you want to do reversing, I’d suggest using poly~.

Record into a buffer~ using record~ and loop mode 1, use fiddle~ /
threshold~ + edge~ to track note onsets and then play back the samples
backwards. For instance: a note on the guitar is played. Once the
note decays to a certain volume (or a new note is triggered), the
start and end points of the note are sent into a poly~ which plays
back the sample. (here’s where you’d need line~ and %~ or pong~)

This way, you can have multiple reversing samples playing at once.

Also, if you want to cheat on the distortion modelling, etc. you can
always use a VST plugin…

Peter McCulloch


January 23, 2007 | 12:03 am

One additional caveat:

Recording and delay are really the same things in terms of latency, so
while you technically are "sampling" the guitar, it’s no more than
what you’d do with a digital delay.

Also, some newer solid-state practice amps have a line-out. Defeat
the connection to the speaker by plugging a cable into the headphone
adapter, and you now have a silent amp that produces a distorted, etc.
tone. Needless to say, it would be an exceptionally bad idea to do
this with a tube amp…bzzzzt.

Also, you don’t need a sound-card with a Hi-Z impedance input. Them’s
what DI boxes are for.

Peter McCulloch


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