Forums > MaxMSP

hardware for 20 speaker soundinstallation

October 13, 2006 | 9:05 pm

hi,

does anybody have an hardware recommendition for an setup of 20 individual channeled speakers? it should be as compact as possible.

thx
peter


October 13, 2006 | 10:07 pm

motu’z
maybe with adat
define compact as in what kind of installation, 20 speakers aren’t
compact
You’ll need amplifiers which you can solder yourself to make them
more compact but it really depends on what kind of definition you
want in you’re sound.
so elaborate!

best regards
p

On 13 Oct 2006, at 23:05, Peter T. wrote:

>
> hi,
>
> does anybody have an hardware recommendition for an setup of 20
> individual channeled speakers? it should be as compact as possible.
>
> thx
> peter
>


October 13, 2006 | 11:04 pm

do you mena the audio soundcard or the speakers?

i did an installation using motu 828mkII
that has 10 channel to stereo speakers;
speakers were just computer ones, very tiny and cheap, plus 4 2:1
subwoofers.

:-)

Il giorno 13/ott/06, alle ore 23:05, Peter T. ha scritto:

>
> hi,
>
> does anybody have an hardware recommendition for an setup of 20
> individual channeled speakers? it should be as compact as possible.
>
> thx
> peter
>


October 14, 2006 | 1:01 am

Some variables might be whether you need XLR outputs from the interface or not, distance to run cables, etc. The MOTU stuff is good–896 for XLR outputs and 828, traveler, and ultralite for TRS outputs. The ultralite has 10 analog outs in a very compact package. Two of those would fit in a shoebox, and give you twenty independent outputs. As for speakers, if they don’t need to be large, some of the cheaper powered monitors out there don’t sound bad, depending on the application. While they may not be ideal for high-end monitoring, they may be perfect for an installation.

If you are using a mac, then I’m sure you’re aware that you can use any combination of interfaces that you have and have the os build a single driver for all of them for simultaneous use. I’m not sure if there is some way to do that in windows.

tim


October 14, 2006 | 12:45 pm

Quote: tim_thompson@mac.com wrote on Fri, 13 October 2006 19:01
—————————————————-
> Some variables might be whether you need XLR outputs from the interface or not, distance to run cables, etc. The MOTU stuff is good–896 for XLR outputs and 828, traveler, and ultralite for TRS outputs. The ultralite has 10 analog outs in a very compact package. Two of those would fit in a shoebox, and give you twenty independent outputs. As for speakers, if they don’t need to be large, some of the cheaper powered monitors out there don’t sound bad, depending on the application. While they may not be ideal for high-end monitoring, they may be perfect for an installation.
>
> If you are using a mac, then I’m sure you’re aware that you can use any combination of interfaces that you have and have the os build a single driver for all of them for simultaneous use. I’m not sure if there is some way to do that in windows.
>
> tim
—————————————————-

only if you have tiger.


October 14, 2006 | 1:06 pm

Dear all

I vote for motu for reliability and transparency. A cheap option is
a used 828mk and an ADAT machine as a cheap 8 DA converter. It takes
4 rack space though… the 2 ultralite is very good as well, or the
24i/o if you have a PCI machine. We do concerts frequently with 4
24io and MSP in Birmingham…

pa


October 18, 2006 | 6:21 am

Hi, i may be a little late on this thread. At Sial we use 2x Motu896HDs
combined with 2x Creamware A16′s and maxmsp to achieve a 32 channel
system. Quiet a bit of development has gone into this to ensure a
performance stable system, still minor teething probs in both sw and hw
integration, however the 896 has been quite a robust unit for our
diffusion concerts.

cheers
Jeff

>>> Pierre Alexandre Tremblay

10/14/06 11:06 pm
>>>
Dear all

I vote for motu for reliability and transparency. A cheap option is
a used 828mk and an ADAT machine as a cheap 8 DA converter. It takes

4 rack space though… the 2 ultralite is very good as well, or the
24i/o if you have a PCI machine. We do concerts frequently with 4
24io and MSP in Birmingham…

pa


October 18, 2006 | 7:44 am

hello! comrades,
I used an external object " granola~" by Lyon for old version Max/MSP
4.5.7 , with my new machine Mac Book pro 2.0 Intel CUP/ Max/MSP
4.6.2 can’t recognize the object ( even different image), the Web
site arcana.dartmoth.edu/~eric/MAX seems closed, can anyone e-mail me
the granola~ for Max.MSP 4.6.2 or any suggestion? thanks in advance!

Shing-kwei


October 18, 2006 | 11:57 am

if you need only a player:ADAT HD24 24-Track Hard Disk Recorder (24 analog in/outputs)

http://www.alesis.com/products/hd24/about.html


October 18, 2006 | 12:59 pm

Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:
> I vote for motu for reliability and transparency. A cheap option is a
> used 828mk and an ADAT machine as a cheap 8 DA converter.

Cheaper as a used ADAT machine and much more convenient to transport:
A used Fostex VC-8 converter (1 half rack size).
A bit more: a new Behringer ADA8000 with 8 Mic inputs!
Alone the difference in schlepp faktor would be worth it…

I do still have a Fostex, might sell it, it hasn’t been used for too
long now….

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


October 18, 2006 | 1:30 pm

any tips about object used (3d positioning), possibilities in windows etc.
will be appreciated

http://maxobjects.com/?request=multi-loudspeakers

2006/10/18, Stefan Tiedje :
>
> Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:
> > I vote for motu for reliability and transparency. A cheap option is a
> > used 828mk and an ADAT machine as a cheap 8 DA converter.
>
> Cheaper as a used ADAT machine and much more convenient to transport:
> A used Fostex VC-8 converter (1 half rack size).
> A bit more: a new Behringer ADA8000 with 8 Mic inputs!
> Alone the difference in schlepp faktor would be worth it…
>
> I do still have a Fostex, might sell it, it hasn’t been used for too
> long now….
>
> Stefan
>
> –
> Stefan Tiedje————x——-
> –_____———–|————–
> –(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
> — _|_)—-|—–()————–
> ———-()——–www.ccmix.com
>
>


October 18, 2006 | 1:59 pm

while we’re on the subject::
I am working on an installation with a 2D 16 speakers linear array, mounted on a wall, next to which the audience can wall around freely.

I am debating whether to use multiouts~ or Vbap/Rvbap for the spatial dispersing of the sounds.
How would you guys compare between the two?
thanks,
Zax
—– Original Message —–
From: yair reshef
To: maxmsp@cycling74.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Re: hardware for 20 speaker soundinstallation

any tips about object used (3d positioning), possibilities in windows etc. will be appreciated
http://maxobjects.com/?request=multi-loudspeakers

2006/10/18, Stefan Tiedje :
Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:
> I vote for motu for reliability and transparency. A cheap option is a
> used 828mk and an ADAT machine as a cheap 8 DA converter.

Cheaper as a used ADAT machine and much more convenient to transport:
A used Fostex VC-8 converter (1 half rack size).
A bit more: a new Behringer ADA8000 with 8 Mic inputs!
Alone the difference in schlepp faktor would be worth it…

I do still have a Fostex, might sell it, it hasn’t been used for too
long now….

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
— _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——– http://www.ccmix.com

——————————————————————————


October 18, 2006 | 4:11 pm

From your description I get the impression that all of the speakers
will be on a straight line, thus really 1D, but I might be misunderstanding.

I used 16 speakers on a line for an installation with Kurt Ralske two
years ago. Some photos from the process of installing can be found here:

http://www.bek.no/Members/lossius/lostblog/373

For that installation I used the ambisonic external from ParisNord. When
I first started thinking of positioning the speakers this way I imagined
the row of speaker as a kind of virtual string, with sound moving back
and forth along the line. In the end the sounding result was very
different. I suspect that with the speaker setup and spatialisation
technique used, it started behave a bit similar to wavefield synthesis,
all loudspeakers contributing to a sound wave that felt to radiate as a
more or less planar perpendicular to the wall. Even if sound levels were
not all that loud, it had a very strong physical impact. It felt like
waves of sound were passing by and through me at great speed. I used the
ambisonic technique to virtually position the source of sound some
meters behind the row of speakers, moving it back and forth along the
direction of the line, also several meters past the line segment defined
by the speakers. The impression of this was that the sound sometimes
seemed to transcend the side walls of the gallery space.

While developing I also tried to use vbap in a similar wacky way, but I
never managed to get any interesting results from it. It was difficult
to locate exactly where along the speaker row the sound was coming from,
and from a few meters distance any movement along the 8 meter line
defined by the speakers didn’t feel like that much of a movement after all.

Using ambisonics the effect got a lot more pronounced, and I was able to
extend and exaggerate the length of the line that sound was moving along.

If you ant to test this for yourself I would recommend that you try it
out with both the ICST ambisonic externals and the ones from parishNord.
ICST have two big advantages over ParisNord, higher order
encoding/decoding and encoding and decoding taking place in separate
externals. On the other hand, looking at the source code for both
externals, it seems to me that the ParishNord obejcts change the balance
between omni and first order signals based on the distance of the
source. In comparisment ICST externals only adjust balance as long as
the source is positioned outside the unit circle/hemisphere. That might
have influence on how sources moving into and coming from a distance are
perceived.

Best,
Trond

Sachs & Eitan PR wrote:
> while we’re on the subject::
> I am working on an installation with a 2D 16 speakers linear array,
> mounted on a wall, next to which the audience can wall around freely.
>
> I am debating whether to use multiouts~ or Vbap/Rvbap for the spatial
> dispersing of the sounds.
> How would you guys compare between the two?
> thanks,
> Zax


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