HD into jitter

Aug 17, 2006 at 12:12am

HD into jitter

I just wanted to follow up on the thread regarding HD input into
Jitter. Previously I had mentioned that HDV input wasn’t possible and
DVCProHD was possible with the FCP installed QT input component on
Macintosh.

Regarding DVCProHD, upon further scrutiny, we noticed only ~10fps as
output via the QT input component provided with FCP regardless of the
framerate the patch was capable of regardless of the vmode used.
Regarding HDV, as is known, there’s no QT supplied input component.
However, both of these problems should be possible to overcome by
using an input board such as the Kona LHe or BlackMagic DeckLink HD
(allegedly with better quality than either the DVCProHD or HDV codecs
if your camera ouputs the original frame rather than the compressed
frame decompressed again).

For many cameras you will only be able to take analog HD output, but
if your device supports HD-SDI (like the new Canon HDV camera does)
you can get an uncompressed digital signal. Still the analog HD
output from cameras such as the HVX200, despite any additional analog
noise issues, is allegedly better quality than the compressed
DVCProHD images.

These cards aren’t exactly cheap ($1000-$2000), and they require a
desktop machine with the appropriate variant of PCI slot, but they
should provide the best (and most CPU efficient) way to get HD
footage into jit.qt.grab (and jit.dx.grab for cards with a Direct X
input component). I might try to get my hands on the Kona LHe
sometime in the next year, but If anyone else has any experience to
report on the use of these cards with HD input into jitter, please
share your results.

For those of you looking to avoid this PCI card based solution, If we
discover any way to make the DVCProHD QT input component deliver more
frames per second, or a third party HDV Direct X or QT input
component we’ll let you know.

Thanks,
Joshua

#27196
Aug 17, 2006 at 12:54am

To add to this. I got a hold of a camera from Imaging Source with the
following specs:

1024 x 768 YUV (4:2:2) @ 15, 7.5, 3.75 fps
1024 x 768 Y (Mono) @ 30, 15, 7.5, 3.75 fps

I’m using it in 1024 x 768 YUV mode and on a dual 2G G5 with a Radeon
9800 I can do a bit of computer vision work and quite a number of
slabs and still maintain a high framerate. It works with no extra
drivers. Since this worked without a problem, I’d imagine their other
cameras would work as well.

Here’s the link:

http://www.1394imaging.com/en/products/cameras/firewire_color/dfk31af03/overview/

wes

#82076
Aug 17, 2006 at 1:21am

On Aug 16, 2006, at 5:54 PM, Wesley Smith wrote:

> To add to this. I got a hold of a camera from Imaging Source

Out of curiosity, has anyone used the point grey cameras which tout
1024×768 in color @30fps like the flea2?

http://www.ptgrey.com/products/flea2/index.asp

-Joshua

#82077
Aug 17, 2006 at 1:22pm

I currently have access to a bunch of systems with Kona 3, Kona LH
and Decklink cards, and a whole machine room of HD decks, and format
converters. Is there anything in particular you want me to test? I
could possibly do some fiddling this evening when the editors have left.

I havent seen of any issues, but im curious if there are any known
incompatibilities of installing the version of Interlok with 4.6 on
systems with Avid, Final Cut, etc.

Im curious myself…

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

On Aug 16, 2006, at 9:21 PM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:

>
> On Aug 16, 2006, at 5:54 PM, Wesley Smith wrote:
>
>> To add to this. I got a hold of a camera from Imaging Source
>
> Out of curiosity, has anyone used the point grey cameras which tout
> 1024×768 in color @30fps like the flea2?
>
> http://www.ptgrey.com/products/flea2/index.asp
>
> -Joshua

#82078
Aug 17, 2006 at 3:29pm

I worked with a Kona LHe card on a g5 a few months ago. I was doing
live compositing of 1080i video and was easily geting 30fps (working
on the gpu). The setup was simple and showed up as an input device
right away.

> I might try to get my hands on the Kona LHe
> sometime in the next year, but If anyone else has any experience to
> report on the use of these cards with HD input into jitter, please
> share your results.

#82079
Aug 17, 2006 at 5:17pm

As I’ve recently had to work with a lot of HDV footage, I can offer
one alternative solution… although it is not oriented towards
realtime capture… it’s a cheap alternative to expensive capture cards.

There is an excellent shareware app called ‘MPEG Streamclip’ that can
transcode any form of MPEG including HDV variants (even the nefarious
raw .m2t transport streams) It requires Apple’s MPEG2 Playback codec
is installed for it to work. ($20 from Apple)

With Streamclip you can transcode to something other than Apple’s
Intermediate codec, (anything QT) such as photojpeg, animation or
uncompressed, which should playback much better within JItter. The
Mac version is UB and there is also a WindowsXP version.

http://www.squared5.com/svideo/mpeg-streamclip-mac.html

http://www.squared5.com/svideo/mpeg-streamclip-win.html

– deKam

> For those of you looking to avoid this PCI card based solution, If
> we discover any way to make the DVCProHD QT input component deliver
> more frames per second, or a third party HDV Direct X or QT input
> component we’ll let you know.
>
> Thanks,
> Joshua
>
>

#82080
Aug 21, 2007 at 3:07am

As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and ask if there has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using a QT component or any software based solution?

Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:

“Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input
device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)
which can grab from this device”

http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=54562

I’m very interested to hear any new developments.

Cheers.

#82081
Aug 21, 2007 at 3:07am

As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and ask if there has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using a QT component or any software based solution?

Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:

“Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input
device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)
which can grab from this device”

http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=54562

I’m very interested to hear any new developments.

Cheers.

#82082
Aug 21, 2007 at 3:23am

Good news:

http://createdigitalmotion.com/2007/05/08/real-time-uncompressed-hd-
mixing-on-the-cheap-with-decklink-intensity/#more-1683

:)

On Aug 20, 2007, at 11:07 PM, darcysays wrote:

>
> As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and ask
> if there has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using a QT
> component or any software based solution?
>
> Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:
>
> “Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input
> device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)
> which can grab from this device”
>
> http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=54562
>
> I’m very interested to hear any new developments.
>
> Cheers.

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#82083
Aug 21, 2007 at 3:38am

Thanks for the reply.
Looks good!

But for us notebook users it sounds like a software only solution is not yet available?

#82084
Aug 21, 2007 at 3:49am

if you want to spend the cash, you could get an AJA IO-HD (should
work, their prior QT drivers worked in Jitter), or, get a Magma PCI-E
-> Expresscard adaptor. the HD Intensity is only a 1x card.

or, use a DVCProHD deck/camera via FW. But no HDV QT components for
capture in other apps AFAIK.

On Aug 20, 2007, at 11:38 PM, darcysays wrote:

>
> Thanks for the reply.
> Looks good!
>
> But for us notebook users it sounds like a software only solution
> is not yet available?

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#82085
Aug 21, 2007 at 5:26am

On Aug 20, 2007, at 8:07 PM, darcysays wrote:

> As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and ask
> if there has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using a QT
> component or any software based solution?
>
> Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:
>
> “Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input
> device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)
> which can grab from this device”

Yes, as you’ve already heard from Anton, the situation is the same
(you’ll have better luck talking to Apple or some third party rather
than us, since we’re *definitely* not going to write an HDV driver).
If purchasing an HDV camera, I would suggest getting one with HDMI
output and using something like the Intensity card suggested by
Anton. Won’t help you on a laptop though, but I suppose there’s
always more expensive options out there if you really need to find a
solution (might also consider uncompressed high resolution IIDC
cameras, such as those sold by imagingsource.com or ptgrey.com which
might suit your purposes).

-Joshua

#82086
Aug 21, 2007 at 5:52am

Joshua – those Point Grey cameras look particularly interesting, and
i had not seen/heard of them before. Has anyone done any work with
them with jitter ? I dont see any mention of OS X compatibility…
Anyone got them working?

Quite Curious -

BTW- welcome back (?) Joshua – if not, GET BACK TO WORK !@#!@# :)

On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:26 AM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:

>
> On Aug 20, 2007, at 8:07 PM, darcysays wrote:
>
>> As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and
>> ask if there has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using
>> a QT component or any software based solution?
>>
>> Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:
>>
>> “Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input
>> device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)
>> which can grab from this device”
>
> Yes, as you’ve already heard from Anton, the situation is the same
> (you’ll have better luck talking to Apple or some third party
> rather than us, since we’re *definitely* not going to write an HDV
> driver). If purchasing an HDV camera, I would suggest getting one
> with HDMI output and using something like the Intensity card
> suggested by Anton. Won’t help you on a laptop though, but I
> suppose there’s always more expensive options out there if you
> really need to find a solution (might also consider uncompressed
> high resolution IIDC cameras, such as those sold by
> imagingsource.com or ptgrey.com which might suit your purposes).
>
> -Joshua

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#82087
Aug 21, 2007 at 6:00am

Too bad they use Bayer filters.

wes

On 8/20/07, vade wrote:
> Joshua – those Point Grey cameras look particularly interesting, and i had
> not seen/heard of them before. Has anyone done any work with them with
> jitter ? I dont see any mention of OS X compatibility… Anyone got them
> working?
>
> Quite Curious -
>
> BTW- welcome back (?) Joshua – if not, GET BACK TO WORK !@#!@# :)
>
>
> On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:26 AM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:
>
>
> On Aug 20, 2007, at 8:07 PM, darcysays wrote:
>
>
> As this post is now a year old I thought I would revisit it and ask if there
> has been any updates on getting HD into Jitter using a QT component or any
> software based solution?
>
> Joshua is the situation still as you described it in 2005:
>
> “Quicktime does not support HDV input as a QT video input
> device. It is only Apple proprietary software (iMovie, FCP, etc.)
> which can grab from this device”
>
> Yes, as you’ve already heard from Anton, the situation is the same (you’ll
> have better luck talking to Apple or some third party rather than us, since
> we’re *definitely* not going to write an HDV driver). If purchasing an HDV
> camera, I would suggest getting one with HDMI output and using something
> like the Intensity card suggested by Anton. Won’t help you on a laptop
> though, but I suppose there’s always more expensive options out there if you
> really need to find a solution (might also consider uncompressed high
> resolution IIDC cameras, such as those sold by imagingsource.com or
> ptgrey.com which might suit your purposes).
>
> -Joshua
>
> v a d e //
>
> http://www.vade.info
> abstrakt.vade.info
>
>
>
>
>
>

#82088
Aug 21, 2007 at 8:37pm

FWIW, the newest MacBook Pro (and iMacs too, I think) have built-in
1280×1024 iSight cams. I’m curious to know if Apple is going to release
a standalone version with similar capabilities. Either way, it’s pretty
rad for a little built-in feature and not very noisy either.

AB

#82089
Aug 21, 2007 at 8:54pm

i got me a pixelink ( http://www.pixelink.com/products_info.asp?id=68 )
beauty that i was able to use with jit.dx.grab. but cant adjust any
settings other native 1280 x 1024@27fps . shame about that. as “the camera
can deliver up to 33 fps at 1k x 1k resolution, up to 107 fps at VGA
resolution (640 x 480) and up to 8000 fps at 724 x 8, all with
user-definable region of interest (ROI)”

i don’t know if this is related, but it would be neat to get those iidc
settings control on windows like there is on the mac side…
any chance?

On 8/21/07, Andrew Benson wrote:
>
> FWIW, the newest MacBook Pro (and iMacs too, I think) have built-in
> 1280×1024 iSight cams. I’m curious to know if Apple is going to release
> a standalone version with similar capabilities. Either way, it’s pretty
> rad for a little built-in feature and not very noisy either.
>
> AB
>

#82090
Aug 27, 2007 at 8:16pm

On Aug 20, 2007, at 10:26 PM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:
> If purchasing an HDV camera, I would suggest getting one with HDMI
> output and using something like the Intensity card suggested by
> Anton. Won’t help you on a laptop though, but I suppose there’s
> always more expensive options out there if you really need to find
> a solution.

Here’s one forthcoming more expensive option ~3000-3500USD. Requires
FW800 port on your MacBookPro, however, but has some other nice
features as compared with the Intensity card, though might make more
sense to just buy and tote around a MacPro instead.

http://www.aja.com/html/products_Io.html

Another potentially useful announcement for cameras without HDMI
output, is that the new Intesity Pro card has analog component video
input. Not 100% sure that these component inputs support HD, but
perhaps worth looking into for people with a desktop machine and an
HD camera with analog, but not digital output. This card is 10x cheaper.

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

-Joshua

#82091
Aug 27, 2007 at 11:07pm

On Aug 27, 2007, at 1:16 PM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:

> Another potentially useful announcement for cameras without HDMI
> output, is that the new Intesity Pro card has analog component
> video input. Not 100% sure that these component inputs support HD,
> but perhaps worth looking into for people with a desktop machine
> and an HD camera with analog, but not digital output. This card is
> 10x cheaper.
>
> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/

FWIW, looks like they do support HD component analog. From the user
manual:

Analog connections
Intensity Pro includes analog video and audio connections for capture
and playback from analog
equipment. Capture from VHS or DVD players via the NTSC/PAL input, or
switch to analog Y,Cr,Cb
for capture in high quality component video in SD or HD.

-Joshua

#82092
Aug 28, 2007 at 1:43am

The issue with the AJA IO HD is that you cannot get uncompressed HD
into your system (this is from AJA themselves – bandwidth constraints
of the FW bus). Its converted to Pro Res 4:2:2 on the AJA IO and has
to be decoded on the CPU side to uncompressed for display. Pro Res is
optimized for decompression vs compression, so the hardware
accelerated engine on the IO can keep up with a realtime 1080 stream,
otherwise you need a beefy system for CPU side HD encoding.. I am not
certain it will work with Jitter 100%, due to the Pro Res encoding
situation.

However, Im fortunate enough to work with a company who is getting
one of the first NYC shipments :) Might be able to get some time on
it. and try it out on my Macbook Pro.

Im happy to report back :)

On Aug 27, 2007, at 4:16 PM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:

>
> On Aug 20, 2007, at 10:26 PM, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:
>> If purchasing an HDV camera, I would suggest getting one with HDMI
>> output and using something like the Intensity card suggested by
>> Anton. Won’t help you on a laptop though, but I suppose there’s
>> always more expensive options out there if you really need to find
>> a solution.
>
> Here’s one forthcoming more expensive option ~3000-3500USD.
> Requires FW800 port on your MacBookPro, however, but has some other
> nice features as compared with the Intensity card, though might
> make more sense to just buy and tote around a MacPro instead.
>
> http://www.aja.com/html/products_Io.html
>
> Another potentially useful announcement for cameras without HDMI
> output, is that the new Intesity Pro card has analog component
> video input. Not 100% sure that these component inputs support HD,
> but perhaps worth looking into for people with a desktop machine
> and an HD camera with analog, but not digital output. This card is
> 10x cheaper.
>
> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/
>

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#82093
Apr 30, 2010 at 9:45am

Hello all,

i just ran into this problem that capturing HDV with Jitter was not possible. Do you know what is the best solution right now? We´re going to buy new camera for around 4000$ with additional card-hardware for capturing. Do you know a nice combo for jitter HD Capturing?

many thx,
florian

#82094
Jan 9, 2011 at 2:39am

Decklink SDI

#82095

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