JavaProgrammer

I'm going to be teaching Java within Max/MSP in the next academic year. I'm presently preparing my materials and will probably be asking quite a few questions over the next few months.

A few general things: My module will concentrate on Java, However, about 25% of the course will be on introductory Jitter to add some more variety, and give the students a respite from programming.

I'm going to be covering both MIDI style (message passing) and MSP objects in Java. I will probably have one lecture right at the end on specialist topics

I'll also be covering creating java GUIs which integrate into Max patches. OK, so here's my first question: So far I've built GUIs by having a separate java class which takes a MaxObject as an argument to its constructor. This is stored in the GUI object, so that output from the GUI into the patch can be performed by (say) "theMaxObject.outlet( 0, 55.5 );". However, if I need two way communication, with information coming into the MaxObject, and also coming out, then I end up with a bit of a mess. The MaxObject retains a reference to the GUI object, and calls methods, while the GUI object retains a reference to the MaxObject, and calls methods. The obvious solution of using a bridging class is not perhaps the best, as it may confuse students. Better a bridging class for

One problem I have is that students will not have access to Max/MSP at home. This will be a problem as students really need to be able to work at home. At present my plan to solve this problem is to reimplement some of the Max classes (MaxObject, DataType, Atom, etc.) in bare-bones style, so that students who have these classes can add a "public static void main( String args[] )" method to their MaxObjects (and performers for MSP), and call methods to debug their code, using standard Java IDEs. I hope to also develop a GUI (perhaps called "PseudoMax" which would have a very limited set of messages that can be sent to a MaxObject (performer etc.) to allow more visual feedback. But getting the basic classes there to allow standalone programs would be my first priority. Are there any alternative tools which could be used for this?

[Edit: aside: while I think I can claim to have written a LOT of Java over the years, I've never used introspection before. It's an interesting adventure developing those bits of it.]

I'm not yet sure if I will cover Java objects with Jitter, but probably will as a specialist topic.

Finally, one thing I'm looking for is "quick wins" for using Java in Max/MSP. Things which are simple enough to be given to students quite near the front of the course, but still something that would be very difficult to do in "normal" Max/MSP. One thing I thought of was hard-coding recursive grammars into a Java class, so that a list is created and output. But if there are any other suggestions, that would be appreciated.

I'm going to be covering both MIDI style (message passing) and MSP objects in Java. I will probably have one lecture right at the end on specialist topics 

I'll also be covering creating java GUIs which integrate into Max patches. OK, so here's my first question: So far I've built GUIs by having a separate java class which takes a MaxObject as an argument to its constructor. This is stored in the GUI object, so that output from the GUI into the patch can be performed by (say) "theMaxObject.outlet( 0, 55.5 );". However, if I need two way communication, with information coming into the MaxObject, and also coming out, then I end up with a bit of a mess. The MaxObject retains a reference to the GUI object, and calls methods, while the GUI object retains a reference to the MaxObject, and calls methods. The obvious solution of using a bridging class is not perhaps the best, as it may confuse students. Better a bridging class for 

Finally, one thing I'm looking for is "quick wins" for using Java in Max/MSP. Things which are simple enough to be given to students quite near the front of the course, but still something that would be very difficult to do in "normal" Max/MSP. One thing I thought of was hard-coding recursive grammars into a Java class, so that a list is created and output. But if there are any other suggestions, that would be appreciated.


hello-all

JavaProgrammer wrote on Fri, 01 May 2009 10:48

One problem I have is that students will not have access to Max/MSP at home.

If your emphasis is on Java, rather than Max, then why not provide a generic "workbench" patcher for hosting the MXJ development, and let your students run it in the free MaxMSP Runtime?

I have people using my monome rendering library via a workbench and the runtime: they're developing and running Python code via MXJ without needing to change the patcher.

JavaProgrammer wrote on Fri, 01 May 2009 10:48One problem I have is that students will not have access to Max/MSP at home.

I have people using my monome rendering library via a workbench and the runtime: they're developing and running Python code via MXJ without needing to change the patcher.


nick rothwell / cassiel wrote on Fri, 01 May 2009 05:29JavaProgrammer wrote on Fri, 01 May 2009 10:48

Thanks Nick. One reason for not planning this is that I haven't done Max for a while, and am rusty. Would it be possible to explain how to build such a patcher. I can easily build MAX patches and distribute them, but the problem with java is how to make the patch reload the class when it's modified.

One thing that is important for me is to have easy debugging. I've noticed that mxj doesn't seem to generate error messages when runtime errors occur. Is there a way to switch this on? Or am I looking in the wrong windows. Also, how would a patcher reload MXJ classes when they are modified. I suppose re-running the patch from scratch would be possible, after each compile. Just double click on the icon. I've already checked and "zap" messages don't reload Java classes, and "_zap" messages aren't even recognised.

The students have access to full Max/MSP here at uni. So, they can of course make their own workbench patches to take home, too.

I was quite happy after managing to get my first MXJ program to run on the linux command line just a few seconds ago. It would be best to investigate other possibilities before spending more work on that though.

Edit: Yes, the Max runtime works very well as a student development environment. A patcher with a mxj quickie allows you to edit and compile the code. In order to reload the class, it's only necessary to close the patcher window and reopen it. This is no more onerous than editing the class name in the mxj object to reload and IMHO less confusing.

nick rothwell / cassiel wrote on Fri, 01 May 2009 05:29JavaProgrammer wrote on Fri, 01 May 2009 10:48One problem I have is that students will not have access to Max/MSP at home.

Thanks Nick. One reason for not planning this is that I haven't done Max for a while, and am rusty. Would it be possible to explain how to build such a patcher. I can easily build MAX patches and distribute them, but the problem with java is how to make the patch reload the class when it's modified. 

Edit: Yes, the Max runtime works very well as a student development environment. A patcher with a mxj quickie  allows you to edit and compile the code. In order to reload the class, it's only necessary to close the patcher window and reopen it. This is no more onerous than editing the class name in the mxj object to reload and IMHO less confusing.


Hello all