Hippie Patching

Jul 27, 2011 at 10:43pm

Hippie Patching

maybe i´m just mad, but right before falling to sleep i had the idea of a user chain patch. means, we patch together. without any great concept, just for fun.

rules:

- the patch is posted and carried in this thread
- if you add something, post the newest version and make a short comment
- ONLY 5 new objects (asides triggers and math objects) and 15 messages per run
- you can have a new run when at least 2 other users added something after your last turn
- you can modify under the same conditions (5 objects/15msg – but it is stolen from your ADD NEW-credits, means like you can add only 2 new when modifying 3 objects etc.)
- don´t think

anyone? then start it!

#58217
Jul 28, 2011 at 3:14am

I may have been a bit liberal with the definition of messages and objects (particularly with regards to what a number/float qualifies as). I counted my five as dac~, phasor~, pong~, matrixctrl, and number~.

A simple timing mechanism, scalable to any time frame (0-1), integers or floats, able to be wrapped and stuttered via pong~, for now hooked up to matrixctrl for a clicky interface.

Let’s see what folk make of it.

Cheers

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Edit: Added my tags.

#209082
Jul 28, 2011 at 5:54am

@ Orkester

Hmm, the problem is that with no comments, it’s not clear to me what your patch is supposed to do, or how to get it to do it.

Here’s a simple patch that at least makes a sound:

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Maybe there’s a way of joining the two up.

#209083
Jul 28, 2011 at 10:25am

There ya go, joined up:

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Adding the preset object may have been a 6th unallowed object(my 5 are 2 itables, 2 cycle~s, and 1 tri~… the rest(tanh~, mtof included, etc.) are math objects or triggers(sel 1), but perhaps unpack might be too much as well, then again, i needed some way to get output from orkester’s patch…), but i think it’s probably better to have a preset for seeing what the previous people intended. Hope that’s ok…

(This thread is a great idea.)

#209084
Jul 28, 2011 at 11:06am

I changed my patch and then repasted, now i’ll leave it alone(hopefully no one modified yet, but if you did take a look before seeing this new post, recopy and use the new version now available in the edited previous post).

#209085
Jul 28, 2011 at 1:05pm

Nice idea, I just put the two first together and tried to stick to the limit of 5 for each. But in general I think the limit should be higher… Especially if the patches need to be corrected to make sense at all…;-)

I think also, that encapsulation allows to be counted as one.

Maybe a limit to stick to just one conceptual change without a limit for the number of changed objects would be better.

Stefan

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P.S. the patch of raja slipped in before, I still stick to what I made…

Stefan

#209086
Jul 28, 2011 at 1:39pm

@stefantiedje I can’t get your patch to do anything but a bunch of clicks.

@everyone I think it would be good to add comments to our patching so others can get a bit of an idea of what’s going on and what to play with. Short labels should be quite enough most of the time.

#209087
Jul 28, 2011 at 3:36pm

@stefantiedje : newobj: mod: No such object :)
I think it’s better to stick to standard objects

#209088
Jul 28, 2011 at 3:58pm

@stefan

well, the excitement gets lost when anyone just adds tons of functions. the key is reduction, so the only rule i´d regret by now is the advice to not think. but that wasn´t serious. its okay to add one or two more, but the principle is… reduction. sure there is a temptation to fight which wants to grow etc.

regarding subpatching/encapsulating as one object – i think that´s way pointless.

and yeah, it should be very obvious to use only standard objects for this.

#209089
Jul 28, 2011 at 4:35pm

I followed on from Raja’s …. I think I added 6 objects but one was a comp~ on the master which well – sort of doesn’t count. I put in 3 presets I hope they work.

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#209090
Jul 28, 2011 at 5:31pm

Grindy. Cool idea, xh9o.

#209091
Jul 28, 2011 at 5:32pm

I tagged the thread [hippie, patch] last night…if there’s gonna be any more threads this style, we can just tag them the same, and have an easy improvved patch search.

#209092
Jul 28, 2011 at 5:34pm

Hehe bagpipes from Hell!

(Oh wait – bagpipes already are from Hell.)

#209093
Jul 28, 2011 at 7:29pm

Nice mod, Griz!

(Just to clarify: Stefan’s patch works fine for me if I simply replace ‘mod’ with ‘%’(% works these days well with floating-point, maybe stefan was using mod from the days back when % didn’t work with args like ’1.’ … or else maybe mod is just more efficient… i don’t know but the simple substitution makes it work if anyone wants to start from there))

Just one thing before it gets out of hand: Grizzle’s patch would work just as well without the live-specific object. Could we maybe keep M4L objects out of this? I can view them just fine, but here are my reasons:
1) many people don’t have M4L, sticking to standard objects leaves it the most accessible
2) this thread was posted in the ‘Max/MSP’ forum, not the ‘Max For Live’ forum (perhaps if people want this to be live-specific they can start a similar thread there)
3) everything that can be done in Max4Live in terms of just a patch like this communally worked on through text on forums, can be done with Max/MSP alone.

(But then the question becomes can we use Jitter?)

Not saying that it’s bad to use M4L and that we should definitely stop everyone from adding to this patch with M4L objects, just saying that people here should think about keeping it as widely accessible as possible.

Just my 2 cents.

#209094
Jul 28, 2011 at 7:34pm

just added some mushrooms.

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// edited to remove [loadbang]

#209095
Jul 28, 2011 at 7:44pm

i agree on eliminating m4l from this since a lot of hippies don’t use live. they use patchouli.

#209096
Jul 28, 2011 at 7:53pm

patchouli?
so old school hippie….

Organic Brown Rice, tofu, Dr. Bronner’s, and Humboldt County Ganja, maybe…..

#209097
Jul 28, 2011 at 8:58pm

err, people, there is absolutely NO ‘m4l’ specificness whatsoever about grizzle’s patch. live.gui objects are standard in all versions of max since 5.1.x series. or are you wanting compatibility to max 4 ?!?! we should not use ‘zl sum’ either then?!

5 objects not enough? putting omx.comp in at this stage is ridiculous.

cool project! it will fail of course, but cool project!

#209098
Jul 28, 2011 at 9:40pm

I removed the M4L object from Driftpatterns patch (from mine originally) and I added some more presets couldn’t help it :) It will stop at some point PID but we could have a go again and next time we add our 5 objects in a patcher or something like driftpattern did with his panel and your allowed a gain structure for free(doesn’t cost against yr objects used).

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#209099
Jul 29, 2011 at 12:51am

eheh.. thats a cool idea! give to the patch some visuals from jitter lands! long live to the hippie patches!

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#209100
Jul 29, 2011 at 3:58pm

Brilliant Carsol – love it :)

#209101
Jul 29, 2011 at 6:07pm

Great idea!

I’ve added a new timing mechanism – moves between presets and re-triggers the master phasor~. Would love to see someone make this better, I kind of ran out of objects..

You need to start the transport btw..

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#209102
Jul 30, 2011 at 4:42am

its too young to die.

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i believe i am still within the rules since math objects aren’t counted.

#209103
Jul 30, 2011 at 2:47pm

I really am enjoying this thread. Some of the sounds coming from that patch are brilliant – I hope others give it a go. I’d be up for one of these a month – even if it’s a small number of people – if we record the output we could put it on vimeo as a community album or something.

I noticed I had to remove and recreate the toggle to the metro’s at the top. It was included in one of the presets and was stopping the transport from doing it’s thing when the preset turned it off.

#209104
Jul 30, 2011 at 3:25pm

Oooh; lots of noisy shenanigans, so I added some more – a little sah~ driven modulation of the bagpipes’ frequencies.

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Brendan

#209105
Jul 31, 2011 at 3:16pm

learning a lot here. no time now, I’ll add soon. I may just clean up the patch and add presentation mode as my contribution… and something else

#209106
Jul 31, 2011 at 7:39pm

I hope I played by the rules here. Added fiddle and used the last output to oscbank. If someone feels like quantizing the tones to something tonal, I don’t have enough energy yet.

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#209107
Aug 1, 2011 at 11:27am

Have refined my original additions. Much more variation now.

Out of curiosity, anyone know a way of having preset output which presets are active?

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#209108
Aug 1, 2011 at 3:12pm

Brilliant my turn again :)

I added a few bits around the place. A master transport, a random ramp for Brendans SAH~ and a jit.vcr to record the proceedings and the active preset number :) I was very tempted to add a [yafr] onto driftpatterns raw file (which I knew you could do but never did so excellent learned something) but I guess the [yafr]is cheating.

`

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#209109
Aug 1, 2011 at 3:46pm

I was zeroed in all the presets… not to be self centered or anything :-)

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#209110
Aug 1, 2011 at 5:23pm

This sounds great(at least to me :D ).

(Haha, so it looks like i’m some sort of ‘object’-police, but fiddle~ is not a standard included object and we were trying to keep this as accessible as possible… any chance someone can replace fiddle~ with the something using standard max/msp/jitter objects? I don’t want to have to download fiddle~ again just to make it work(I stopped keeping up on 3rd party libraries and fiddle~ in particular always made me feel like i was cheating/not-learning-enough). But it’s just a request… not a complaint. A couple more iterations and we’ll probably want to move to a whole new one anyways… or maybe not! But ya, just requesting.)

And I can’t believe how lost I am. That’s what I get for not checking it out for days…. And I never tried playing 3D objects like shrooms from a soundfile player… very interesting(although it’s just a slow changing tone, I’m surprised it even does that instead of just making random noise).

Congrats everyone on a success that proves PID’s cynical/jaded perspective wrong, hahahhahahahaha :D (though that’s never really hard to do :p)

#209111
Aug 1, 2011 at 6:02pm

Hah! Knew screw something up! Theres no standard partial tracker I’m on a train late for a flight. Maybe I’ll think something else up and replace it.

#209112
Aug 1, 2011 at 6:14pm

i think if you are going to add a feature like a auto-random preset switcher, you should make a way that it can be enabled/disabled as desired. cool addition though.

Out of curiosity, anyone know a way of having preset output which presets are active?

second outlet from the left on the preset object does the trick.

#209113
Aug 1, 2011 at 11:12pm

@raja
true, not everyone has [fiddle~]; is there anything in the 74/examples folder that can replace it?

Brendan

#209114
Aug 2, 2011 at 12:32am

@driftpattern

Fair call, it was quite an all-encompassing addition.

As for my question about preset, I think I didn’t express it correctly. What I was after was a way of obtaining numbers of all the presets which contained stored data. The problem with the random preset switcher is that if you added presets beyond number 12 then they could not be switched to automatically, as this was controlled by the Random 12.

Any thoughts?

#209115
Aug 2, 2011 at 2:35am

@Mark Durham
not sure how we can get the presets that have been written to. yeah, that would be great to have especially now since there are some gaps in the presets. love the results with that feature.

now the mushrooms are less static (when the added toggle is checked) and edited some of the existing presets to make use of the new feature. also added new presets 41-45 and an inspirational quote from a forum member. check the toggle to activate the transport for the randomizer.

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#209116
Aug 2, 2011 at 4:25am

canceled flight. crazy day. you guys can just pull my part off this. I’ll work on the next one by the rules.

#209117
Aug 2, 2011 at 4:49am

Good job :D During the game, the patch added a few objects red ))

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#209118
Aug 2, 2011 at 10:00am

i thought hippies were using pd ?

#209119
Aug 2, 2011 at 10:22am

This thing is sick!!! Love it!

@tep maybe, but if I’m not mistaken, both Max and PD have strong Californian Roots ; )

#209120
Aug 2, 2011 at 10:36am

It’s not Neil Young, is it?

#209121
Aug 2, 2011 at 10:52am

Wow… Love those new presets, they really make nice use of the delay. Inspired me to LFO the pitch adjuster – see presets 57-64, 58′s the one for me though…

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#209122
Aug 3, 2011 at 3:02am

@noob_meister
I guess gizmo~ comes to mind but perhaps too expensive. well i’d rather just leave it in than do away with Matt’s contribution altogether. was just a suggestion, no biggie.

(is it just me or has the look of the forums changed slightly within the past week? everyone’s posts are alternatingly indented now? or is there some way people are replying directly to a single post rather than the whole thread? that’s what it looks like to me :)

#209123
Aug 3, 2011 at 3:55pm

@raja seems the li tag is the issue. its listed as allowed markup but things got weird ever since i used it above. think i edited my post then accidentally deleted the closing tag. not sure if ben and alanna are aware.

#209124
Aug 3, 2011 at 4:14pm

it´s really getting the the hippie sound monster.

#209125
Aug 3, 2011 at 4:15pm

ok i like this patch. it produces an large array of crazy sounds and has enough parameters for hours of enjoyment. so unless anybody else has something special to add, i suggest we consider this the final feature set of sound-generating objects and just make it more useable. in other words, lets actually *finish* this patch so we can move on. agree?

“I’d be up for one of these a month – even if it’s a small number of people – if we record the output we could put it on vimeo as a community album or something.”

yeah like the mcrp from monome.org. additionally, we could build the patch as a collective and/or stand-alone executable for mac+pc. …except i’m not sure about redistributing fiddle~. miller puckette’s LICENSE.txt indicates its ok as long as license is included but it seems to not be included in Ted Apel/David Zicarelli msp port.`

#209126
Aug 3, 2011 at 4:18pm

| lets actually *finish* this patch so we can move on. agree?

I´d second that, it is really cool the way it is. A little bit of cleanup and user-friendliness and well, then it´s pretty much perfect for what it should become.

BIGGEST THANKS so far, I really must hide a tear. Such a beautiful hippie monster baby :)

#209127
Aug 3, 2011 at 8:09pm

I’d like to propose that the next one should have a rule That everyone should either use a separate dac or at least add a gain. I think everyone ended up competeting for the attention of the distortion if you know what I mean

#209128
Aug 3, 2011 at 8:47pm

It has bits of an fx engine, the idea was maybe a bit more towards communication of the elements than addition of new elements over the others. But that´s creative euphoria which shouldn´t be limited or controlled too much or too early. Btw. it gets a lot more concrete if you just limit some of the number fields to a certain range.

So it´s very fine chaos with lots of potential for ending up as a good software. When I find the time I´ll seperate and re-connect the pieces a little bit (besides some fixed ranges e.g. a control surface with switches for audio routing options) to give it a more constructive flow and glue. And I think about adding a sequencer from where to sequence the presets more rhythmically into a groove than random could. Maybe next week.

#209129
Aug 4, 2011 at 6:56pm

I tidied it up a little – I might do a bit more tomorrow but I am not sure how to label some of the controls… if someone wants to have a look and try to label them that’d be good. I added a few amp controls around the place or made what was there better with line~.

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#209130
Aug 5, 2011 at 4:27am

@raja thanks for the heads up on the forum formatting. it was an issue with an unclosed li tag in a post. it’s fixed now.

#209131
Aug 5, 2011 at 1:53pm

I put a basic presentation on it and it is starting to look like something I could use. I put in a jit.window so as it can go fullscreen. I also put size maessages on both arrays.

There are some issues – the shroom is rate is attached to the number box going into phasor~ rather than the transport or output from the phasor~. Maybe an envelope of some kind on the Osc Section. Preset management needs work – is it worth setting up a pattr system for morphing presets???

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#209132
Aug 6, 2011 at 7:49am

In [jit.catch] added configuration -framesize- )

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#209133
Aug 6, 2011 at 8:51am

In [jit.catch] -downsample- tuning is needed too)

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#209134
Aug 6, 2011 at 3:57pm

Another change in the patch, I added jitter)

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#209135
Aug 8, 2011 at 6:04am

guys, another version of the patch, updating jitter)

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#209136
Aug 8, 2011 at 7:10am

guys, I’ve done that would at randomization included all ready presets)

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#209137
Aug 8, 2011 at 6:23pm

i thought for sure hippies would be nowhere to be found when it was time for actual work. nice job by all!

stored preset data is currently a mess. lots of presets were saved before many objects existed – intentions of the preset authors no longer clear. all need to be re-saveed.

excluded more objects from presets. no time to decipher what is going on with all those metros for the jitter stuff. maybe some of those should also be excluded. calling preset 1 at load instead of loadmess/loadbang where appropriate. pattr storage w/ interp would be great but we probably won’t be able to use @autoname and thats a lot of scripting names to enter.

found license for fiddle~.mxo in header of source code. ok to distribute for non-commercial use.

There are some issues – the shroom is rate is attached to the number box going into phasor~ rather than the transport or output from the phasor~

not an issue but an intentional choice. the rate just changes in relation to the phasor rate (not phase). most of the shroom anumation comes from the “track+rm” option which was my intention from the begining but couldn’t at add right away due to 5 obj limit. if you want, add a selector.

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#209138
Aug 8, 2011 at 6:51pm

Nice Rapoon,

A bit more Jitter was need – and colour now :)

I added a little more (it’s more than 5 object but there is no way to do certain UI type stuff with only 5 at a time) – basically I added the ability to randomize or set measures on the matrixctl.

I am going to start breaking this into an M4L now.

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#209139
Aug 9, 2011 at 12:08am

added my changes (from 2 posts above) to grizzle’s update.

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