Sub Avian Flow

I'm seriously thinking about doing 99% of my work in Max now. I'm just curious as to how many people work this way. It's still, in my opinion, nice to work in a commercial DAW at times, but more and more I find myself leaning towards using only Max. Any suggestions for working this way? thank you.

how-many-people-use-max-exclusively

I don't think that is a bad thing at all. Although you could hit some hurdles considering editing and the such.

When Pluggo finally comes out for Max 5, you can then build your own VST/AU/RTAS instruments and then use any DAW as the vessel to carry it along. That is my plan, once Pluggo is out. Yes, you are still using a DAW unit, but your primary sound is what you created in Max. The DAW is just recording the MIDI/Audio for you, which is the way i want to go once Pluggo is out. Build all my instruments and just use Logic to record it all, then do some editing.

In all essence, i think 99% of Max users do still uses Cubase/Logic/Ableton/Pro Tools etc, to finalize there tracks, it does makes sense to do so. Although if you don't want to do such things, doing recording on the spot is fair enough with the [sfrecord~] object.

I myself have just finished a workstation that has up to 8 sample loopers, 2 VST effects plug-in inserts for each looper, VSTi insert, Audio insert, plus recording options, here is a link to just one part of the workstation

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=399928079&albumID=550130&imageID=12826112

The aim for this project was to do that such thing (just work in Max), as being away from Logic. But it is only if i want to do some weird loop mangling tracks on-the-fly, but in the end always end up using Logic to finish a track.

There is plenty more to add on later, when i get better at Max, such as drum machines, synths and many other effects insert.

I do plan to make it an AU when pluggo comes out, then that would be my workspace, both for the commercial work i do and my own music.

Plus also want to sort a way to have each looper and everything else able to go into Logic recording on separate tracks, so then i can do some more mangling to it. Drums on track 1, synth 1 on track 2, etc.

It is still nice though to work in a commercial DAW, it helps you along. Since starting on Logic 4, i feel i cant live without it, because it does help me a great deal in music making both for clients/work and my own personal gain, plus with Logic 8, it has added more to my work than anything, which is great.

What you are planning is not a bad idea, because most Maxers do follow that path, but one way or the other, do use a DAW to help them a little bit more, as with re-wire mode to a DAW

I myself have just finished a workstation that has up to 8 sample loopers, 2 VST effects plug-in inserts for each looper, VSTi insert, Audio insert, plus recording options, here is a link to just one part of the workstation
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewImage&friendID=399928079&albumID=550130&imageID=12826112

The aim for this project was to do that such thing (just work in Max), as being away from Logic. But it is only if i want to do some weird loop mangling tracks on-the-fly, but in the end always end up using Logic to finish a track.
There is plenty more to add on later, when i get better at Max, such as drum machines, synths and many other effects insert.
I do plan to make it an AU when pluggo comes out, then that would be my workspace, both for the commercial work i do and my own music.
Plus also want to sort a way to have each looper and everything else able to go into Logic recording on separate tracks, so then i can do some more mangling to it. Drums on track 1, synth 1 on track 2, etc.

What you are planning is not a bad idea, because most Maxers do follow that path, but one way or the other, do use a DAW to help them a little bit more, as with re-wire mode to a DAW


i don't think a classic audio-capable sequencer can really be gotten rid of. 

there is a tendency to turn any software into an "egg laying woolmilkpig"(German idiom :) today, but why replace a hammer when it works perfectly, as a hammer?

max has many uses for sure, though i doubt, that it's fun to use it as a replacement for Pro Tools, Logic, Nuendo or DP.

i see the potential of max where it always was. in it's freedom of combination and for very special things. it's a bit like an ideal form of audio LEGO.

i don't think a classic audio-capable sequencer can really be gotten rid of. 
there is a tendency to turn any software into an "egg laying woolmilkpig"(German idiom :) today, but why replace a hammer when it works perfectly, as a hammer?

max has many uses for sure, though i doubt, that it's fun to use it as a replacement for Pro Tools, Logic, Nuendo or DP.
i see the potential of max where it always was. in it's freedom of combination and for very special things. it's a bit like an ideal form of audio LEGO.

> there is a tendency to turn any software into an "egg laying 

I'm sure that comes out as a single word. The best I can manage is 

Eierzurmilchwolleschwein - what's the original?

> there is a tendency to turn any software into an "egg laying  
> woolmilkpig"(German idiom :)

I'm sure that comes out as a single word. The best I can manage is  
Eierzurmilchwolleschwein - what's the original?

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
www.cassiel.com
www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
www.last.fm/music/cassiel
www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
www.loadbang.net


The pig is actually a female one, MAMA PIG so to say, you know like a really good overdrive.

> I'm seriously thinking about doing 99% of my work in Max now. I'm just curious as to how many people work this way. It's still, in my opinion, nice to work in a commercial DAW at times, but more and more I find myself leaning towards using only Max. Any suggestions for working this way? thank you. 

I'm moving in that direction as well. I find that the need to "edit" and 

so on doesn't always apply to my work, and the idea of "direction" is 

more appropriate - and a concept much more managable in MaxMSP than 

The difficult part is "feature freeze" - finding a set of parameters, 

"machines" input devices, output devices, video settings you want to go 

with and then freeze the setup there - that's where I'm currently ... 

Joshua Jarvis skrev:
> I'm seriously thinking about doing 99% of my work in Max now. I'm just curious as to how many people work this way. It's still, in my opinion, nice to work in a commercial DAW at times, but more and more I find myself leaning towards using only Max. Any suggestions for working this way? thank you.  
I'm moving in that direction as well. I find that the need to "edit" and 
so on doesn't always apply to my work, and the idea of "direction" is 
more appropriate - and a concept much more managable in MaxMSP than 
Ableton Live, my other system.

The difficult part is "feature freeze" - finding a set of parameters, 
"machines" input devices, output devices, video settings you want to go 
with and then freeze the setup there - that's where I'm currently ... 
stuck ;)

Quote: f.e wrote on Tue, 25 November 2008 04:01

----------------------------------------------------

> But you still can build your own DAW in Max. You'll just need the time 

> and money for that. It took my team more than one year, and a lot of 

> money, to design a proper composing workspace in Max with a proper GUI.

Do you have any information on this "composing workspace"?

Quote: f.e wrote on Tue, 25 November 2008 04:01
----------------------------------------------------

> But you still can build your own DAW in Max. You'll just need the time 
> and money for that. It took my team more than one year, and a lot of 
> money, to design a proper composing workspace in Max with a proper GUI.
----------------------------------------------------

Do you have any information on this "composing workspace"?
Sounds interesting...

I would like to use Max exclusively, but the lack of a time line

really keeps me from doing that. I ultimately would like to 

create a composition environment that allows me to compose

with the aspects of music and not just the actual notes. Changing

different aspects can create large changes that then ripple out 

through all the notes. It would be like a multi resolution meta sequencer.

I would like to use Max exclusively, but the lack of a time line
really keeps me from doing that. I ultimately would like to 
create a composition environment that allows me to compose
with the aspects of music and not just the actual notes. Changing
different aspects can create large changes that then ripple out 
through all the notes. It would be like a multi resolution meta sequencer.


On 26 Nov 2008, at 09:15, Anthony Palomba wrote:

> I would like to use Max exclusively, but the lack of a time line

With [transport], [timepoint], [when] and friends, you could always 

(The very first externals I wrote for Max back in 1992 were simple 

timeline and MIDI Beat Clock synchronisers.)

> I would like to use Max exclusively, but the lack of a time line
> really keeps me from doing that.

With [transport], [timepoint], [when] and friends, you could always  
build your own. Isn't that the Max way?

(The very first externals I wrote for Max back in 1992 were simple  
timeline and MIDI Beat Clock synchronisers.)

>> I would like to use Max exclusively, but the lack of a time line

> With [transport], [timepoint], [when] and friends, you could always

> build your own. Isn't that the Max way?

> (The very first externals I wrote for Max back in 1992 were simple

> timeline and MIDI Beat Clock synchronisers.)

The main problem with the [transport] system is the absence of a

[timepointlist], a list of time points. In this respect, [qlist] is still a

very relevant object, maybe still the best timeline in Max.

We can store definitions of timepoints in a coll, and trigger the new times

when one has been played, but it is not reliable when triggering heavy

processes (you give [timepoint] the definition of a new time, but if there

is a high number of calculations to make, the [timepoint] looks at or

receives the new time too late, and the event is missed).

Scripting new [timepoint] objects in function of a list is another option.

But I still think such a "list of timepoints" is very much needed.

>> I would like to use Max exclusively, but the lack of a time line
>> really keeps me from doing that.
>
> With [transport], [timepoint], [when] and friends, you could always
> build your own. Isn't that the Max way?
>
> (The very first externals I wrote for Max back in 1992 were simple
> timeline and MIDI Beat Clock synchronisers.)
>
> -- N.

The main problem with the [transport] system is the absence of a
[timepointlist], a list of time points. In this respect, [qlist] is still a
very relevant object, maybe still the best timeline in Max.

We can store definitions of timepoints in a coll, and trigger the new times
when one has been played, but it is not reliable when triggering heavy
processes (you give [timepoint] the definition of a new time, but if there
is a high number of calculations to make, the [timepoint] looks at or
receives the new time too late, and the event is missed).

Scripting new [timepoint] objects in function of a list is another option.
But I still think such a "list of timepoints" is very much needed.

On this job, i use Max exclusively, but with a few sidenotes:

- We use a DAW with Pluggo (VST), as a pure sequencer (all recording in Max)

- I work in Max most of the time, but about a quarter of the time goes into writing code in other languages for things that are used in Max: GLSL, javascript, C externals and Java (in order of frequency).

I like the alternation between the two styles of programming, on the one hand the speedy, small and precise bits of typed code, on the other hand the quick-built, functional, gui-mess that is Max.

- We use a DAW with Pluggo (VST), as a pure sequencer (all recording in Max)
- I work in Max most of the time, but about a quarter of the time goes into writing code in other languages for things that are used in Max: GLSL, javascript, C externals and Java (in order of frequency).

I like the alternation between the two styles of programming, on the one hand the speedy, small and precise bits of typed code, on the other hand the quick-built, functional, gui-mess that is Max.


Quote: Wetterberg wrote on Tue, 25 November 2008 16:43

> > I'm seriously thinking about doing 99% of my work in Max now. I'm just curious as to how many people work this way. It's still, in my opinion, nice to work in a commercial DAW at times, but more and more I find myself leaning towards using only Max. Any suggestions for working this way? thank you. 

> I'm moving in that direction as well. I find that the need to "edit" and 

> so on doesn't always apply to my work, and the idea of "direction" is 

> more appropriate - and a concept much more managable in MaxMSP than 

> The difficult part is "feature freeze" - finding a set of parameters, 

> "machines" input devices, output devices, video settings you want to go 

> with and then freeze the setup there - that's where I'm currently ... 

What do you mean by this? Why do you need to freeze the setup?

Quote: Wetterberg wrote on Tue, 25 November 2008 16:43
----------------------------------------------------
> Joshua Jarvis skrev:
> > I'm seriously thinking about doing 99% of my work in Max now. I'm just curious as to how many people work this way. It's still, in my opinion, nice to work in a commercial DAW at times, but more and more I find myself leaning towards using only Max. Any suggestions for working this way? thank you.  
> I'm moving in that direction as well. I find that the need to "edit" and 
> so on doesn't always apply to my work, and the idea of "direction" is 
> more appropriate - and a concept much more managable in MaxMSP than 
> Ableton Live, my other system.
>
> The difficult part is "feature freeze" - finding a set of parameters, 
> "machines" input devices, output devices, video settings you want to go 
> with and then freeze the setup there - that's where I'm currently ... 
> stuck ;)
>
>
> Andreas.
>
----------------------------------------------------

What do you mean by this? Why do you need to freeze the setup?


I agree with Stefan, to do it right takes a lot of work. 

I have had plans to do one on the drawing board for quite some time

but the amount of work is formidable for just one person. 

Timepoint and qlist work for what they do, but they are a far

cry from a real time line that would allow you to visually

Now porting Blue to Max would be a great idea. I know

Blue is written in Java, I am not sure what gfx api it is 

using for the UI, but I am sure Steven Yi would be helpful in explaining things. I am not as familiar with Java but I could

I agree with Stefan, to do it right takes a lot of work. 
I have had plans to do one on the drawing board for quite some time
but the amount of work is formidable for just one person. 
Timepoint and qlist work for what they do, but they are a far
cry from a real time line that would allow you to visually
sequence symbols and events.

Now porting Blue to Max would be a great idea. I know
Blue is written in Java, I am not sure what gfx api it is 
using for the UI, but I am sure Steven Yi would be helpful in explaining things. I am not as familiar with Java but I could
certainly investigate it.


How Many People Use Max Exclusively?