mchenetz

I really would like to know how to get chosen for M4L beta... I have MAX/MSP 5.08 and Live 8.1. I also have a Lemur and a Monome and contribute to a lot of communities. I applied for the beta since day one and about 100 times there after... Arghh... It's very agrivating because i want to get to work on so many ideas I have for M4L.

how-to-get-chosen-for-m4l-beta

well the thing with beta, is that you just have to wait.

that may not be, or maybe was the answer you were waiting to get. but that is how it is. thats life basically, some are lucky, some are not. its the strange silk fabric of life.

that is the thing with this type of beta test. it is wide known product etc, so they may just apply to certain people, who are not busy or even just everyday joe-shmoe [this is my guess], or who spend there waking lives in there house making music for a living, like me.

that is the way the cookie crumbles, so to speak.

and plus as well, i do know that everybody wants to get there hands on max for live, believe me, i know the wait.

but thats the thing, you just have to wait.

sorry if this is a downward mail back, but that is how it is really. but in the end, it will all be worth it...

that is the way the cookie crumbles, so to speak.
and plus as well, i do know that everybody wants to get there hands on max for live, believe me, i know the wait.
but thats the thing, you just have to wait.

sorry if this is a downward mail back, but that is how it is really. but in the end, it will all be worth it...


yeah... It wasn't really a complaint... I am just very anxious and excited to get my hands on it...

the same thing happened when the release of pluggo was going to be announced, just before max for live was announced. the forum was full of questions [a lot from me as well] about when will it be out and what price, backwards compatibility etc.

and then it was said that pluggo was stopping for max for live, then that just sent even more forum posts flying, and mostly mean ones at that.

but aye, just keep your chin up, or just make some patches ready to put into max for live ...

hahaha, aye i know. 
the same thing happened when the release of pluggo was going to be announced, just before max for live was announced. the forum was full of questions [a lot from me as well] about when will it be out and what price, backwards compatibility etc.

but aye, just keep your chin up, or just make some patches ready to put into max for live ...


mchenetz wrote on Thu, 17 September 2009 12:56

I applied for the beta since day one and about 

mchenetz wrote on Thu, 17 September 2009 12:56I applied for the beta since day one and about 100 times there after.

Lewis Edwards, you may be a M4L beta tester, but 

you REALLY should learn the difference between 

there and their and they're. It really makes you look under-educated.

Sheesh... I am here with adoctorate in music comp., 18 yrs (!!) of Max experience,own Max5 and Live8 and 10 - 12 usb controllers of various sorts, and a 15 year+ career as a professional programmer.oh, and the max objects i had in the original ircam max repository, and in Essl's 'real-time-composition' lib....

Didn't get me a nibble, applied the very first day.

Not one of those friends of the developers, i guess, .

Oh, I know, the amount of time I spend promoting my music is the issue; 

to be legit., I can't entertain just local friends and co workers, the art/program must be for made for the 

'strut and trade of charms upon the ivory stages'

'the common wages of their most secret heart'...

Well most of the "art world" is this way...eventually the internet will help dissolve this little circle j...er, closed society.

Lewis Edwards, you may be a M4L beta tester, but 
you REALLY should learn the difference between 
there and their and they're. It really makes you look under-educated.

Sheesh... I am here with adoctorate in music comp.,  18 yrs (!!) of Max experience,own Max5 and Live8 and 10 - 12 usb controllers of various sorts, and a 15 year+ career as a professional programmer.oh, and the max objects i had in the original ircam  max repository, and in Essl's 'real-time-composition' lib....

Oh, I know, the amount of time I spend promoting my music is the issue; 
to be legit., I can't entertain just local friends and co workers, the art/program must be for made for the 
'strut and trade of charms upon the ivory stages'
 not 
'the common wages of their most secret heart'...
Well most of the "art world" is this way...eventually the internet will help dissolve this little circle j...er, closed society.

funnily enough i was talking to a friend about this, he has a trouble with the to, too and two. my problem is with my there, their and they're.

i knew years ago, but they just, 'poof', escaped from my memory banks much like my french language. i could speak perfect french, now it is just gone. shame.

aye this wee little problem of mine will be sorted and thanks for the kick up the ass to point it out ...

ah good old dictionary. explaining in clear english what everything means, much better than listening to a friend trying to explain for 20 minutes, when in the end, does not make any sense at all .

you can be sure that my later forum posts will have the correct usage of the words there, their and they're .

cheers for that kick, its most helpful coming from random people ...

Cheers for that kick, its most helpful coming from random people Smile..

ummm...I would not trash you so, except you should consider your lofty, high, and even haughty tone with which you replied to 

("unchosen") masses who might even be , in some sense, more deserving of beta testing status than you.

I almost feel we deserve an apology from you, but by pointing out that your use of the glorious English language leaves much to be desired, I think I have balanced the score a little bit.

Sigh... You might be a competent maxer, but...

be kind and sympathetic, not mocking and teasing to those who were overlooked.

O I tire of this: go about your way, but consider that people who are REJECTED do not want to hear

sounded to me like an A**H****. any possibility I'm right? huh?

Quote:Cheers for that kick, its most helpful coming from random people Smile..

its :possessive (e,g: its collar)
vs.
it's : a contraction for it is.

ummm...I would not trash you so, except you should consider your lofty, high, and even haughty tone with which you replied to 
the preterite ("unchosen") masses who might even be , in some sense, more deserving of beta testing status than you.

Sigh... You might be a competent maxer, but...
be kind and sympathetic, not mocking and teasing to those who were overlooked.

O I tire of this: go about your way, but consider that people who are REJECTED do not want to hear
"too bad, you lose!"
And that;s all you said.
sounded to me like an A**H****. any possibility I'm right? huh?

wow ho wow charles baker, just stop with that negative attitude man.

just as raja has typed up. i in no way meant anything, like i am a higher being of some sort or the other just because of doing beta testing or whatever. i hate to even think that in daily life, because people look down on me all the time, and in all honesty am offended by the fact you thought i was being condescending and talking down to someone, for something so small as testing.

i simply explain that some get and some dont. i have been on the list for ages myself, waiting and waiting.

actually, how i would read it. i would agree with raja in your comments back, you are talking down to me. such as your comments back have proved such a thing.

even taking a stab at me again, but even more nasty. basically saying i am that stupid i dont have to apologies, because of my misuse of the english language makes up for that, its petty, very petty.

i dont want to start an internet argument or anything, its just silly. but please dont type/talk to me like that again. please, or anyone else, its not right to do, for anyone.

also i do except that you did read my forum post completely [off the earth] wrong. but please, dont talk down to me like that again, its not smart to do, even if you may think it is.

i never meant to say anything bad to anyone, i was basically explaining to mchenetz, that some are lucky and some are not. but in no way, shape, or form do i ever talk down to anyone, ever. and i never have to apologies for that.

i have made mistakes [and apologized] in the past of wording things wrong, but this does not deserve an apology.

i am going to stop with this silly matter now. but one last thing, does mchenetz think i was talking down to them?...

just as raja has typed up. i in no way meant anything, like i am a higher being of some sort or the other just because of doing beta testing or whatever. i hate to even think that in daily life, because people look down on me all the time, and in all honesty am offended by the fact you thought i was being condescending and talking down to someone, for something so small as testing.
i simply explain that some get and some dont. i have been on the list for ages myself, waiting and waiting.

actually, how i would read it. i would agree with raja in your comments back, you are talking down to me. such as your comments back have proved such a thing.
even taking a stab at me again, but even more nasty. basically saying i am that stupid i dont have to apologies, because of my misuse of the english language makes up for that, its petty, very petty.

i dont want to start an internet argument or anything, its just silly. but please dont type/talk to me like that again. please, or anyone else, its not right to do, for anyone.
also i do except that you did read my forum post completely [off the earth] wrong. but please, dont talk down to me like that again, its not smart to do, even if you may think it is.

i never meant to say anything bad to anyone, i was basically explaining to mchenetz, that some are lucky and some are not. but in no way, shape, or form do i ever talk down to anyone, ever. and i never have to apologies for that.
i have made mistakes [and apologized] in the past of wording things wrong, but this does not deserve an apology.
so you wont get one.

i am going to stop with this silly matter now. but one last thing, does mchenetz think i was talking down to them?...


And you , R.R. and Lewis are both members of the inner council, as far as I can see.

R.R.: you are in the program, accepted "senior" (I know I'm older than you both) : of course you will take no insult by him saying to US UNCHOOSEN "gee..it's just tooooo bad..."

First, you did not answer the question asked: is there a way to get into the beta program?

Please explain: my annoyance at a *repeated* failure of grammar is a "kick in the butt", but his 

 letter explaining the horribly self evident fact that gee, "you can't always get what you want" is *not* a condescending "kick"?

Notice, although i corrected his letter, I did not accuse him of "kicking" or "condescending" or ANYTHING until he made my quite accurate quibble a "kick in the a**".

It was not intended as such, believe me, I do not give metaphoric "butt kickings"...and I think all such implications should be left at the pub, not in trying to laugh off a long letter saying to less 'lucky' folk: "gee, too bad, better luck next time".

We are not idiots. We are in some cases highly paid workers in engineering fields, who did not even choose that field, but found themselves forced to do this after 35 years of nothing but music.

So enough . I'll just stare at my framed thank you letters from 

Peter R. Fricker, Elliot Carter, Jeffery Tate, Stephen Mosko, William Kraft, and well,

Thanks for making *me* feel so very special.

And if you want a real butt-kickin' ,go elsewhere.

And can you answer the g*dd**n question: any hope for our pleader for beta consideration?

Who just saved this damn insurance company about 3 million over the next year, but gets no respect at all from anyone where it matters.

And you , R.R. and Lewis are both members of the inner council, as far as I can see.
So, defending him is to be expected.
R.R.: you are in the program, accepted "senior" (I know I'm older than you both) : of course you will take no insult by him saying to US UNCHOOSEN "gee..it's just tooooo bad..."
First, you did not answer the question asked: is there a way to get into the beta program?
You just said, "too bad, folks...".
Please explain: my annoyance at a *repeated* failure of grammar is a "kick in the butt", but his multi paragraph letter explaining the horribly self evident fact that gee, "you can't always get what you want" is *not* a condescending "kick"? 

So enough . I'll just stare at my framed thank you letters from 
Peter R. Fricker, Elliot Carter, Jeffery Tate, Stephen Mosko, William Kraft,  and well,
Cry.
Thanks for making *me* feel so very special.
And if you want a real butt-kickin' ,go elsewhere.

I thought not.
A tired and bitter 
Dr. B.
Who just saved this damn insurance company about 3 million over the next year, but gets no respect at all from anyone where it matters.
F**K.
Maybe suicide...


I would like to apologize for creating a topic that is so controversial. It was not my intention to create a thread that would turn out like this. I was definitely NOT offended by anything that was posted concerning MAX for live. I am, however, disturbed on how this thread has taken a turn for the worse and the evilness of the internet has reared it's ugly head.

Actually, I am involved with many betas (open and closed) in the music industry and i actually know how these things goes. I posted this topic as a light hearted approach to show my excitement about M4L. Please all get along. This whole thread got off topic and I think i would appreciate it if it could stop here. This forum is usually very nice with a lot of intelligent people and great input. Lets keep it that way.

I would like to apologize for creating a topic that is so controversial. It was not my intention to create a thread that would turn out like this. I was definitely NOT offended by anything that was posted concerning MAX for live. I am, however, disturbed on how this thread has taken a turn for the worse and the evilness of the internet has reared it's ugly head. 

This is a joke right? You're all the same person or something?

@josquin2000: Are you ok man? You sound a lot different from the josquin2000 I know of from the old big blue lounge. A thank you letter from Elliott Carter (first name spelled with two Ls and two Ts, btw)? That's pretty awesome! .... but why tell us here?

It's hard for me to imagine how complex the development of M4L must be. Trying to make something as complex as Max run in pairing with another piece of complex software. These guys (both C74 and the Abes) have been incredibly busy with this project.

But I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that beta testing is supposed to be just that: testing. If you're wanting to get in just so you have a sneak peak at a new toy, then you're really doing it for the wrong reason, IMHO.

ok charles, this is going to be the last i post on this forum question, it is getting out of hand and being thrown way out of proportion.

my comment from before "cheers for that kick, its most helpful coming from a random person :)"

that is literally me saying 'thank you' for pointing out about my little problem i have with the there, their they're issue. because in all honesty, you dont know something is a problem until someone you dont know tells you. ok. you have read it wrong, i even put a smiley face on it as well.

also as well, this whole issue with the max for live beta test, or any kind of beta test in general. plain and simple, some people get chosen and some people do not. that is the nature of life. and i did explain that beforehand. it is just being read wrong.

its like going to the shops, one day they have your favorite fresh apples, but you dont buy them then, you wait until another day. you go back a few days later when you need more shopping, but they have all sold out. its a bitch yes and it has happened to me many times, but that is the way things just go.

and as this inner council is concerned or even how your supposed to get the beta test. believe whatever you want, i dont care anymore. i just wanted to make things clearer. i will stop with this post and move on, i said my piece...

my comment from before "cheers for that kick, its most helpful coming from a random person :)"
that is literally me saying 'thank you' for pointing out about my little problem i have with the there, their they're issue. because in all honesty, you dont know something is a problem until someone you dont know tells you. ok. you have read it wrong, i even put a smiley face on it as well.

also as well, this whole issue with the max for live beta test, or any kind of beta test in general. plain and simple, some people get chosen and some people do not. that is the nature of life. and i did explain that beforehand. it is just being read wrong.
its like going to the shops, one day they have your favorite fresh apples, but you dont buy them then, you wait until another day. you go back a few days later when you need more shopping, but they have all sold out. its a bitch yes and it has happened to me many times, but that is the way things just go.

and as this inner council is concerned or even how your supposed to get the beta test. believe whatever you want, i dont care anymore. i just wanted to make things clearer. i will stop with this post and move on, i said my piece...


see, i dont even know how this got out of hand, you know. literally i am just saying what happens with beta testing, and as you have said you have done before then you do know the highs, but also lows of it.

you get it or you dont, plain and simple.

anyhow, i am happy that you did get back and have popped that little bubble of discomfort. and hope that this has not put you off max 5 or the wait for max for live 

this sort of thing does happen quite a lot though. if you look through some old posts, you have a lot of the 'internet tough guys'. it is silly in the end though 

i mean, this is a place to learn, not to stab abuse at anyone or start internet fights.

right, ok, last message on this thread ...

@mc
see, i dont even know how this got out of hand, you know. literally i am just saying what happens with beta testing, and as you have said you have done before then you do know the highs, but also lows of it.
you get it or you dont, plain and simple.

anyhow, i am happy that you did get back and have popped that little bubble of discomfort. and hope that this has not put you off max 5 or the wait for max for live 
this sort of thing does happen quite a lot though. if you look through some old posts, you have a lot of the 'internet tough guys'. it is silly in the end though 
i mean, this is a place to learn, not to stab abuse at anyone or start internet fights.

right, ok, last message on this thread ...


yes two ll's and two tt's. I too make mistakes when I'm weeping like a little schoolgirl...

And yes, there's also the autographed Ross Lee Finny score, and the Ives 100 Songs edition, given as a gift from a grateful summer festival. And the lovely Lou Harrison Calligraphy of my name.

"But that's all over", as the old Jefferson Airplane song points out....

I used to be happy, now i work as a insurance programmer.

so I could give a darn about the beta test, but I cannot stand more rejection from the music world. Even if it is not rejection,

yes two ll's and two tt's. I too make mistakes when I'm weeping like a little schoolgirl...
And yes, there's also the autographed Ross Lee Finny score, and the  Ives 100 Songs edition, given as a gift from a grateful summer festival. And the lovely Lou Harrison Calligraphy of my name. 

so I could give a darn about the beta test, but I cannot stand more rejection from the music world. Even if it is not rejection, 

As rambling explanation, not excuse, my anger was inexcusable.

I had just saved my ins. company a huge amount of $,

and got the obligatory handshake and vague promise of future earnings.

And I realized I did not give a good dod gam about the money or the company, or anything in my life since I stopped playing my way through itinerant trumpet playing (I studied with truly great players...) 

And i am sure I cannot again take on the competitive nature of the "wannabe" musician world again...it broke my heart already once, and it took 10 years before I did *anything* except try to earn a living: & that in a field (computer programing) that I had NO FORMAL TRAINING IN AT ALL.

NONE, not a single class, and I did it: I walked out and made it as professional programmer...but i went home and cried myself to sleep for ten years...(clinical depression) Now I am a bit better, but scared to release any of my newer works to the world. (truth) and irritable towards those that *should* be our musician's supportive community...yeah, I know , it's F'ed up.

So, yeah, one day when the kids are outta college, and I have paid off the two mortgages, I might try again.

Thank you , RR..
As rambling explanation, not excuse, my anger was inexcusable.

I had just saved my ins. company a huge amount of $,
and got the obligatory handshake and vague promise of future  earnings.
And I realized I did not give a good dod gam about the money or the company, or anything in my life since I stopped playing my way through itinerant trumpet playing (I studied with truly great players...) 
And i am sure I cannot again take on the competitive nature of the "wannabe" musician world again...it broke my heart already once, and it took 10 years before I did *anything* except try to earn a living: & that in a field (computer programing) that I had NO FORMAL TRAINING IN AT ALL.
NONE, not a single class, and I did it: I walked out and made it as professional programmer...but i went home and cried myself to sleep for ten years...(clinical depression) Now I am a bit better, but scared to release any of my newer works to the world. (truth) and irritable towards those that *should* be our musician's supportive community...yeah, I know , it's F'ed up.

So, yeah, one day when the kids are outta college, and I have paid off the two mortgages, I might try again. 

So again, thanks RR,
and 
Many apologies to the entire list.

Dr. Charles Baker
Sr. Production Java Developer
Citizens Property Insurance Corporation
Tallahassee FL
aka j2k to other wonderful folk.


thanks for that apology charles, it is most welcome.

i know what you mean about breaking your back for a company, or anyone to save them money or release a good product. you feel great, but are annoyed that all you got for your work was a smile, nothing more.

the amount of times i have done work for people, more than a few times worked for more than 24 hours solid. 

what did i get in the end, nothing but grief, and being told that it was not up to scratch, even though everyone who i knew said it was utterly more than perfect.

but they and the company got buggered in the end, because their [see used it right, im learning again ] ideas were changing every few hours. its stupid and did annoy me. but i knew i was better than all of them, in the sense i knew what i was doing, and they had no idea, but tried to pass off they knew. it strange to explain, but everyone has experienced it, one way or the other.

but aye, we live, we break our backs for nothing, we move on. the silly cycle of life...

i know what you mean about breaking your back for a company, or anyone to save them money or release a good product. you feel great, but are annoyed that all you got for your work was a smile, nothing more.
the amount of times i have done work for people, more than a few times worked for more than 24 hours solid. 
what did i get in the end, nothing but grief, and being told that it was not up to scratch, even though everyone who i knew said it was utterly more than perfect.
but they and the company got buggered in the end, because their [see used it right, im learning again ] ideas were changing every  few hours. its stupid and did annoy me. but i knew i was better than all of them, in the sense i knew what i was doing, and they had no idea, but tried to pass off they knew. it strange to explain, but everyone has experienced it, one way or the other.

but aye, we live, we break our backs for nothing, we move on. the silly cycle of life...


So what does all of his have to do with getting chosen for M4L? 

Actually... I got invited this morning and I was programming all afternoon. I created a M4L patch that uses the midi sequencer with the Lemur. It does some very interesting stuff. I cannot wait for M4L to go out of beta so that I can share it with everyone.

mchenetz wrote on Fri, 18 September 2009 15:03

So what does all of his have to do with getting chosen for M4L?

Not being chosen for the very first circle of testers might come out of respect for your valuable time btw. Better not waist your time with the first bunch of repeated crashes and keep those to a smaller cycle of tech nerds who love crashes...

mchenetz wrote on Fri, 18 September 2009 15:03So what does all of his have to do with getting chosen for M4L? 

Not being chosen for the very first circle of testers might come out of respect for your valuable time btw. Better not waist your time with the first bunch of repeated crashes and keep those to a smaller cycle of tech nerds who love crashes...


How to get chosen for M4L Beta