How to handle lists with much more than 256 members?

Apr 5, 2007 at 7:49pm

How to handle lists with much more than 256 members?

Hi!

I’m working on a simulation of artificial neural networks ins Max. After some weeks work, the patch is working, but because of the 256 member limit for lists, it is very constricted… Has anyone an idea how to calculate few calculations with a huge number of participants (up to 10 thousands floats, all doing the same calculations +,-,*, / )

jitter? java? split lists? i don’t know!

Thanks very much….

GErald

#31200
Apr 5, 2007 at 9:32pm

Quote: geraldg@gmx.de wrote on Thu, 05 April 2007 12:49
—————————————————-
> Hi!
>
> I’m working on a simulation of artificial neural networks ins Max. After some weeks work, the patch is working, but because of the 256 member limit for lists, it is very constricted… Has anyone an idea how to calculate few calculations with a huge number of participants (up to 10 thousands floats, all doing the same calculations +,-,*, / )
>
> jitter? java? split lists? i don’t know!
>
> Thanks very much….
>
> GErald
—————————————————-

This hits us all the time with Spectral Synthesis. The options are Javascript, Jitter, Java, or externals programmed in C.

The choice has to do with money, skill, realtime perfomance needs… I would have a look in “listpackage.help” which outlines the java list operators that are included with Max.

mz

#101050
Apr 5, 2007 at 9:44pm

i might be misunderstanding how neural networks work, but i was thinking that it seems similar to FM synthesis matrices, where you have a number of oscillators all connected together, with varying degrees of connectivity. maybe you could make a massive signal matrix…..
maybe you could train a network of oscillators to speak welsh

#101051
Apr 5, 2007 at 9:50pm

> jitter? java? split lists? i don’t know!

Just for the fun of it, here’s an abstraction that hacks lists into Max-sized bites, so you can do something. It then reassembles them:

#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 180 112 40 196617 t b i i;
#P comment 169 233 191 196617 < regular max objects;
#N vpatcher 20 74 620 474;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P newex 76 87 114 196617 loadmess scalarmode 1;
#P newex 60 141 83 196617 vexpr $f1 * -1.;
#P outlet 60 246 15 0;
#P inlet 60 26 15 0;
#P comment 227 118 100 196617 Do what you want with Max in here;
#P connect 1 0 3 0;
#P connect 4 0 3 0;
#P connect 3 0 2 0;
#P pop;
#P newobj 65 232 100 196617 p Max Programming;
#P outlet 65 339 15 0;
#P comment 85 342 191 196617 < enjoy your new long list here;
#P inlet 65 54 15 0;
#P message 98 152 62 196617 iterate 100;
#P newex 65 191 71 196617 mxj list.Slice;
#P message 210 171 43 196617 size $1;
#P newex 180 91 78 196617 mxj list.Length;
#P newex 65 296 84 196617 mxj list.Group 3;
#P comment 86 54 191 196617 < send in your ridiculously long list here;
#P connect 11 0 5 0;
#P connect 11 1 4 1;
#P connect 11 2 3 0;
#P connect 2 0 11 0;
#P connect 6 0 4 0;
#P connect 6 0 2 0;
#P connect 9 0 1 0;
#P connect 4 0 9 0;
#P connect 1 0 8 0;
#P connect 5 0 4 0;
#P connect 3 0 1 0;
#P window clipboard copycount 12;

mz

#101052
Apr 6, 2007 at 4:54am

#101053
Apr 6, 2007 at 11:38am

Hi guys!

thanx for your tips and patches!
mzed, your patch is working fine, but the problem is, that i cant get longer lists out of th larray object, so i wold have to hange all my get messages and so on, so I decidet to try it with jitter.
The only problem is, that I have a very basic experience in jitter….

Maybe you can answer me a few questions before?

1. is there ANY internal LIMIT to the jit.matrix ;-))
2. to query rows and collumns, do I have to define submatices for the given parameters then?

Thanx

Gerald

#101054
Apr 11, 2007 at 5:12pm

Have you looked at IRCAM’s FTM environment? It’s designed to handle matrices and could have very long lists.

Other than that, as suggested, Java externals would do that okay. They’re fairly simple to code too.

Hope that helps.

What are the ANN’s doing? Sounds an interesting project

#101055
Apr 11, 2007 at 6:15pm

Hi!

Thanks! But it seems, the FTM is only running under Mac OS!?
For now i rebult it, using Jitter, it was not too complicated, but must say, that finding errors in Jitter matrices is not too easy…
But it is something like working. We’ll see how it will grow.

I’m doing this project for my diploma in July, and it is just an experiment to figure out the range of possibilities for the use of ANN in live music environment…

Cheers

Gerald

#101056
Apr 11, 2007 at 6:26pm

#101057

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