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Hyperdeck processing (10 bit uncompressed 4:2:2 YUV)

January 8, 2012 | 9:33 pm

Hail

I’ve got a Black Magic Hyperdeck Shuttle (http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/hyperdeckshuttle/techspecs/) which I plugged my i7 MBP unibody into via a thunderbolt/hmdi converter.

For testing, I mirrored my desktop as the MBP picked up the Hyperdeck immediately. I’ve got a recommended SSD to record to, and when I mount the disk after recording, I find the default Capture0000.mov file (7seconds = 1Gb) OK.

The blurb says it writes 10 bit uncompressed 4:2:2 YUV at 1080p 24fps. My test jitter patch confirms this, but the video is output to the jit.pwindow with the heavy green tint an unconverted YUV movie does.

My patch uses |jit.qt.movie| with no arguments, so the operator should do internal conversion between YUV and ARGB, but my movie comes out with a *magenta* tint instead of green.

I think I’m trying to convert an HDYC format through jit.qt.movie, given that under the packed YUV format list of this page: http://www.fourcc.org/yuv.php, a description of HDYC is given on the Black Magic site (although the link is broken, the reference infers (thanks vade for posting this link elsewhere)).

So it may have something to do the HDYC BT709 color space instead of the BT470 the UYVY format uses (which I assume is used by Jitter?).

Does anyone know how to fix it so I can convert my Hyperdeck files into something nice and ARGB/slim I can scratch with?

Cheers


January 8, 2012 | 10:40 pm

Hmm, reading more I’ve reminded myself that actually, the green tint I’m experiencing isn’t because I need to convert the video per se, just that I need to set the colorspace up appropriately so that it is correct to view (i.e. video of man is orange shirt – shirt is orange, not a shade of green).

I can’t seem to find suitable converter advice anywhere – I’ll post back when I hear from Black Magic.


January 9, 2012 | 12:54 am

I suspect the issue is the Hyperdeck expects HDMI to be input as YUV, which normally for video sources it is. The issue is that, when computers send over HDMI, usually they are sending RGB 444, DVI (which can be transmitted over HDMI, as HDMI standard encapsulates DVI). Now, *whether* the hardware can decode 444, when it might be expecting 422 is another story.

If you have encoded something from your mac desktop (just your Finder, etc) and it is looking tinted green, this is due to an expectation of YUV, when it is in fact receiving RGB frames.

I’ve had issues in the past where some HDMI cables and some adaptors from computers to HDMI inputs do not properly negotiate and thus default color spaces are used. This might be a cabling issue, but it might also be that the HDMI input and processing of the Hyperdeck simply does not allow transcoding from RGB to YUV sources.

To be clear:

Your Mac is almost 100% sending *RGB* 444 frames out of its Display Port or DVI to HDMI adaptor.
Your Hyperdeck Shuttle may not be able to properly convert an incoming RGB 444 signal over HDMI to YUV 422
for encode.

This is because most *video* sources are *already* YUV 422 on the wire (BluRay, HDMI Cam-corders, pro gear, etc). For the most part, only computer sources and *really* high end gear uses the 444 RGB mode, as it is more data on the wire.

Let us know, I’d be curious if the Hyperdeck allows RGB ingest.

edit: I am on the Black-Magic dev list, so I just emailed them for technical details on whether the Shuttle can handle the HDMI RGB 444 to YUV 422 for record in hardware.


January 9, 2012 | 9:13 pm

vade, thanks for the comments.

Just spoke to BMD and they have confirmed that there is a BUG in the Hyperdeck which they are aware of and are intending to fix but they havent got a timescale yet (firmware upgrade to come eventually).

Hyperdecks, at this current time, do not ingest RGB colourspaces. Just YUV. Ace.

This is obviously a little disappointing as I’ve bought one, and a fairly expensive 256Gb SSD. Not too bad though, I easily love video processing to use it eventually.

So the question is thus: [1] how can I still make use of this device? I can either write/acquire something hideous to make my MBP beam YUV422 from the thunderbolt port, or find an intermediary device which will do the transcoding.

Now, as it happens, I’ve not got a video h/w mixer yet; I was trying to get away without it. Any suggestions [2]?

The hyperdeck was supposed to fix a problem I was having where I was using bidule in Logic Pro to trigger changes in position of a playing composite QT movie, and recording the screen output to massively save time which I would otherwise have spent assembling the footage piece-by-piece in Final Cut so the cuts were in time to the music. Screen grabbers were basically not having it i.e. I was still spending significant time editing out frame drops originally affected by I/O on the running OS.

I don’t want to buy another h/w recorder like the Atomos Ninja (which I’m 99.5% sure doesn’t support RGB 4:4:4 anyway), so I’m going to have to do a bit more reading.


January 9, 2012 | 9:31 pm

http://blackmagic-design.com/products/dviextender/

Ironic?

Or there’s this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/2m-DisplayPort-LIFETIME-REPLACEMENT-WARRANTY/dp/B005H8CZVM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1326145557&sr=8-2
(or google/amazon Mini DisplayPort to DVI Cable)

plus

http://www.ambery.com/dvhdtocovisc.html

as a possible candidate for a more affordable way of stealing RGB MBP/MP laptop output and recording it. I’ve not bought any of this kit so it comes with a, ehem, disclaimer.


January 9, 2012 | 10:36 pm

Hm! Disclaimer and quite rightly so: I spoke to Ambery just now and they have advised me to be very careful as Apple have started using HDCP content protection and the above scaler cannot handle the encryption. Crikey.

As my MBP will be outputting only my desktop (with a Jitter window in it) I presume I’ll be OK. I don’t feel good about this though. May be worth giving BMD some more money and being done with it.


January 9, 2012 | 10:52 pm

the HDCP content protection is for playback of media content from the iTunes store. Apples new media framework in 10.7 allows playback of protected content. However, it won’t let you play back protected content on to displays that are not HDCP compliant (so you cannot rip the movie from the iTunes store, etc).

This also goes hand in hand with Apple removing some screen capture APIs so that OpenGL accelerated fullscreen screen capture does not work with 10.7. You have to use a new API to do it, which won’t let you capture content/windows that host protected displays. Welcome to the future.

It sucks, and you don’t even have a jetpack.


January 9, 2012 | 11:17 pm

So if I wanted to record a jitter videoplane in real time without dropping frames (i.e. a hardware device recording the DVI output), to a format which I can pull back in for editing, may I presume I’d be fine with, say, a scaler like the Ambery one above? How would you do it?

If I played a protected movie through a jit.qt.movie object, and tried a screen grab (say not full screen), am I thinking that wouldn’t work?


January 10, 2012 | 9:19 am

I dont believe you *can* play a protected movie using Jitter, because Jitter is not using AVFoundation. I believe Quicktime will not be able to decode the file. I’ve not tried though, because I don’t buy stuff from the iTunes store so I don’t really have anything to test.

What I use to record stuff off of my DVI out is a second machine and something like an Matrox MXO2 Mini, an AJA Kona LHe, or a Black Magic card like an Intensity (or nicer model). Most of those solutions require a desktop (as they are PCI-E cards), but now with Thunderbolt (or, if your machine has the older Express 3/4) and something like the Ultrastudio 3D, or the AJA IO XT, or MXO2 adaptors for both Express 3/4 and Thunderbolt you can do it on a laptop as well.

All of the above record HDMI in, but support the RGB 444 format that HDMI spec can use, (even though they *record* to 4:2:2(*)). So its RGB 444 in from your computer, saved to a 422 file.

* Actually, higher end cards *can* record to 444, to a codec that is uncompressed, or near lossless like ProRes4444, but both require fast disks and fairly beefy systems – but its less an less an issue these days).


January 10, 2012 | 9:29 pm

I’ve seen the MX02 in the interim, which I like; my Mac Pro output will write through it and to the Hyperdeck in 422 so it boils down to choice of scaler.

Now I’ve done a bit of reading on HDCP I’m less scared of mis-buying. It’s easy to dig up mad legitimate movie owners having trouble with iTunes.

vade thanks for the advice; it’s obvious now I come to think of it, jitter uses quicktime, so it’s down to understanding the QT format. I can’t believe I asked someone else what I was thinking.

BTW, anyone else reading this thread, I’ve spoken to Black Magic who say they’ve had a number of users ringing in saying their thunderbolt outputs are not negotiating with the black magic DVI Extender using adapters and they’ve not heard of anyone trying the same with a thunderbolt to DVI cable. See above comment on HDMI cable negotiation.


March 5, 2013 | 3:33 pm

I just discover this post as I (unfortunately) purchased an Hyperdeck shuttle…..

Any progress on RGB capture or on how to output UYV from a MBP ??

Thanks


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