I hit roadblock in the manual

Jan 31, 2007 at 6:23am

I hit roadblock in the manual

On test 5, it wasnt the test itself that is causing me problems, though it would have been nice if they had warned me that i should be equipped with the knowledge of calculating linear maps (WTF?!!), so much as it is the flow of it. Im looking at the answer and the flow doesnt make any sense.

Here for those who may have deleted their tutorial patch folder

#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 179 203 47 9109513 noteout a;
#P newex 179 162 75 9109513 makenote 64 80;
#P newex 179 122 31 9109513 int 36;
#P user kslider 150 42 54 0 36 60 31 12 0 128 128 128 128 128 128 255 255 255 0 0 0 0 0 0;
#P newex 119 186 27 9109513 + 5;
#P newex 119 154 28 9109513 * 1.5;
#P newex 119 121 27 9109513 – 36;
#P toggle 75 68 15 0;
#P newex 75 221 54 9109513 passpct 10;
#P newex 75 98 45 9109513 metro 80;
#P fasten 6 0 3 0 155 111 124 111;
#P fasten 6 0 7 1 155 110 205 110;
#P fasten 8 1 9 1 249 197 202 197;
#P fasten 6 1 8 1 566 155 216 155;
#P fasten 1 0 7 0 80 247 166 247 166 115 184 115;
#P connect 8 0 9 0;
#P connect 7 0 8 0;
#P connect 3 0 4 0;
#P connect 4 0 5 0;
#P connect 5 0 1 1;
#P connect 2 0 0 0;
#P connect 0 0 1 0;
#P window clipboard copycount 10;

I rewrote the pre-solution shown in the pdf(pg. 139)before they add in all the random generator stuff.

1. There seems to be output coming from kslider, but seeing as theres nothing going into it and im not clicking on it, where is its output coming from? This troubles me because it seems that the majority of input of this patch is coming from an inactive source.

2. Why did they include a “int 36″ box? i dont see what its purpose is supposed to be. More so, why does the pitch of the inactive kslider feed into the “set value without output” input when the value has already been set to 36? Wouldnt it make more sense to put nothing there at all, or at least “int $1″?

3. I remember in the beginning of the tutorial it was mentioned that max does everything in reverse, meaning it will work bottom to top, right to left. If thats so, then wouldnt the linear map calculation be passpct% + 5 * 1.5 – 36?

#30034
Jan 31, 2007 at 7:09am

Quote: usdryad@hotmail.com wrote on Tue, 30 January 2007 22:23
—————————————————-
> 1. There seems to be output coming from kslider, but seeing as >theres nothing going into it and im not clicking on it, where is >its output coming from? This troubles me because it seems that >the majority of input of this patch is coming from an inactive >source.

Once you turn on the metro it bangs the int 36 box a certain percentage of the time which tells make note to create MIDI note 36 at a velocity of 80 (velocity is determined by the argument in makenote). So the activity comes from the metro. Is that what you mean?

>
> 2. Why did they include a “int 36″ box? i dont see what its >purpose is supposed to be. More so, why does the pitch of the >inactive kslider feed into the “set value without output” input >when the value has already been set to 36? Wouldnt it make more >sense to put nothing there at all, or at least “int $1″?

See above. 36 is simply a starting note which the user can change via the keyslider. It could have been left blank but then, as you observed, the patch would not make any sound until you clicked on the keyslider (though actually mine makes a nice hum trying to play MIDI note zero). Also, as far as I know $1 only works in message boxes, not in objects.

>
> 3. I remember in the beginning of the tutorial it was mentioned >that max does everything in reverse, meaning it will work bottom >to top, right to left. If thats so, then wouldnt the linear map >calculation be passpct% + 5 * 1.5 – 36?

Right to left yes, but still top to bottom….outlet flows to inlet.

>
—————————————————-

#95103
Feb 1, 2007 at 3:02pm

the “bottom to top” ordering can be a little confusing, but all it just means that if you have an out connected to two objects and they are aligned vertically (i.e there is no ‘right’ or ‘left’ object, because they are both in the same y axis) then the outlet will send its data to the bottom object first, and then then one above it.

Here is an example:

#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 23 193 66 196617 print bottom;
#P newex 23 167 49 196617 print top;
#P button 23 125 15 0;
#P comment 43 126 142 196617 this is bottom to top ordering;
#P newex 118 71 57 196617 print right;
#P newex 26 71 51 196617 print left;
#P button 26 29 15 0;
#P comment 46 30 135 196617 this is right to left ordering;
#P connect 5 0 6 0;
#P fasten 5 0 7 0 28 154 28 154;
#P connect 1 0 2 0;
#P fasten 1 0 3 0 31 58 123 58;
#P window clipboard copycount 8;

#95104
Feb 1, 2007 at 3:26pm

#95105
Feb 1, 2007 at 3:41pm

#95106
Feb 1, 2007 at 4:11pm

Not only does the trigger object work well for the
purposes of good patch hygiene, but the world appears
to be positively chock-full of folks who believe them-
selves to be too clever [I once considered myself to
be one of those persons] to do the tutorials and thus
are unlikely to learn anything about the way that
data makes its way through a Max patch. The judicious
use of the trigger object can provide a good way to
fix problems and remind folks of the right-to-left,
bottom-to-top flow of data. When faced with that,
some people actually see the light and begin to
figure out why something in other parts of their
patch don’t work.

Of course, Max patches can be traced, too [psst:
the Max Topics manual, chapter on debugging]

#95107
Feb 1, 2007 at 4:19pm

Quote: jeanfrancois.charles wrote on Thu, 01 February 2007 08:41
—————————————————-
> Is that documented anywhere?
> If not, I will keep saying NEVER rely on that.

max v2;
#N vpatcher 51 99 700 588;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 12.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 150 230 100 196620 bottom;
#P button 45 214 15 0;
#P button 135 142 43 0;
#P button 349 155 33 0;
#P button 502 341 33 0;
#P button 119 236 23 0;
#P button 319 91 13 0;
#P newex 71 267 48 196620 print t;
#P newex 296 155 50 196620 print 2;
#P newex 349 221 48 196620 print t;
#P newex 194 259 49 196620 print o;
#P newex 184 282 53 196620 print m;
#P newex 207 329 48 196620 print t;
#P newex 207 306 48 196620 print t;
#P newex 207 352 49 196620 print o;
#P newex 180 65 48 196620 print f;
#P newex 198 122 49 196620 print e;
#P newex 296 129 45 196620 print l;
#P newex 402 221 49 196620 print h;
#P newex 456 221 49 196620 print g;
#P newex 510 221 45 196620 print i;
#P newex 560 221 48 196620 print r;
#P newex 207 376 49 196620 print b;
#P newex 64 213 50 196620 print 2;
#P newex 451 56 49 196620 print p;
#P newex 478 80 49 196620 print o;
#P newex 503 56 48 196620 print t;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 24.;
#P comment 54 147 103 196632 click >;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 12.;
#P comment 114 429 369 196620 good patch hygiene is a love note to your future selves….;
#P connect 26 0 27 0;
#P connect 26 0 5 0;
#P connect 22 0 21 0;
#P connect 26 0 23 0;
#P connect 22 0 13 0;
#P connect 23 0 17 0;
#P connect 23 0 18 0;
#P connect 22 0 12 0;
#P connect 23 0 15 0;
#P connect 23 0 16 0;
#P connect 23 0 14 0;
#P connect 23 0 6 0;
#P connect 22 0 11 0;
#P connect 22 0 20 0;
#P connect 27 0 22 0;
#P connect 22 0 25 0;
#P connect 25 0 19 0;
#P connect 25 0 10 0;
#P connect 24 0 4 0;
#P connect 25 0 9 0;
#P connect 24 0 3 0;
#P connect 27 0 24 0;
#P connect 24 0 2 0;
#P connect 25 0 8 0;
#P connect 25 0 7 0;
#P pop;

#95108
Feb 1, 2007 at 4:20pm

> Is that documented anywhere?
> If not, I will keep saying NEVER rely on that.

On a slightly less droll note:

max v2;
#N vpatcher 40 104 448 732;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 12.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 26 565 332 196620 In case you doubt me , enable trace and try these….;
#P comment 32 490 26 196620 12;
#P comment 32 465 26 196620 11;
#P comment 33 440 26 196620 10;
#P comment 84 490 20 196620 9;
#P comment 83 465 20 196620 8;
#P comment 84 440 20 196620 7;
#P comment 233 465 20 196620 6;
#P comment 208 440 20 196620 5;
#P comment 163 490 20 196620 4;
#P comment 163 465 20 196620 3;
#P comment 130 440 20 196620 2;
#P comment 126 411 20 196620 1;
#P button 210 465 21 0;
#P button 185 490 21 0;
#P button 185 440 21 0;
#P button 185 465 21 0;
#P button 151 440 21 0;
#P button 60 490 21 0;
#P button 60 465 21 0;
#P button 60 440 21 0;
#P button 104 490 21 0;
#P button 104 465 21 0;
#P button 104 440 21 0;
#P button 104 409 21 0;
#P comment 177 273 20 196620 4;
#P comment 178 296 20 196620 3;
#P comment 177 320 20 196620 2;
#P comment 58 242 20 196620 1;
#P button 154 320 21 0;
#P button 154 296 21 0;
#P button 154 273 21 0;
#P button 80 241 21 0;
#P comment 83 143 20 196620 4;
#P comment 146 164 20 196620 3;
#P comment 217 142 20 196620 2;
#P comment 124 92 20 196620 1;
#P button 104 141 21 0;
#P button 146 141 21 0;
#P button 194 141 21 0;
#P button 146 91 21 0;
#P comment 33 369 279 196620 …using a depth-first traversal.;
#P comment 34 199 208 196620 …and bottom to top…;
#P comment 34 52 332 196620 objects pass messages right->left…;
#P connect 19 0 23 0;
#P connect 23 0 24 0;
#P connect 24 0 25 0;
#P connect 3 0 6 0;
#P connect 19 0 20 0;
#P connect 20 0 21 0;
#P connect 21 0 22 0;
#P connect 3 0 5 0;
#P connect 19 0 26 0;
#P connect 11 0 12 0;
#P connect 11 0 13 0;
#P connect 11 0 14 0;
#P connect 26 0 28 0;
#P connect 26 0 27 0;
#P connect 27 0 29 0;
#P connect 3 0 4 0;
#P connect 28 0 30 0;
#P pop;

#95109
Feb 1, 2007 at 6:28pm

From the Max46TutorialAndTopics.pdf tutorial #7 summary (pages 34, 35)

“An object with multiple outlets sends messages out its outlet in order from right-to-left. When multiple patch cords are connected to a single outlet, the messages are sent in right-to-left order, depending on the position of the receiving objects. (If the receiving objects are perfectly aligned vertically, the order is bottom-to-top)”

#95110
Feb 1, 2007 at 6:56pm

#95111
Feb 1, 2007 at 7:08pm

#95112
Feb 1, 2007 at 11:28pm

And here’s mao’s max guide in pictures:

http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/rtol.jpg

http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/btotop.jpg

http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/encapsulate.jpg

http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/bang.jpg

http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/rtfm.jpg

http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/onemetro.jpg

http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/search.jpg

On Feb 1, 2007, at 7:28 PM, Nick Inhofe wrote:

>
>>> From the Max46TutorialAndTopics.pdf tutorial #7 summary (pages
>>> 34, 35)
>
> “An object with multiple outlets sends messages out its outlet in
> order from right-to-left. When multiple patch cords are connected
> to a single outlet, the messages are sent in right-to-left order,
> depending on the position of the receiving objects. (If the
> receiving objects are perfectly aligned vertically, the order is
> bottom-to-top)”
>

#95113
Feb 1, 2007 at 11:41pm

On 1 Feb 2007, at 16:11, Gregory Taylor wrote:

> The judicious
> use of the trigger object can provide a good way to
> fix problems and remind folks of the right-to-left,
> bottom-to-top flow of data.

Oddly enough, despite having been programming Max for about 15 years,
I have never, ever assumed right-to-left or bottom-to-top in fanouts;
I think I discovered the trigger object in the first week and never
needed to concern myself with such irritating topographic issues.

– N.

nick rothwell — composition, systems, performance — http://
http://www.cassiel.com

#95114
Feb 2, 2007 at 12:08am

…..

Well played sir!

On Feb 1, 2007, at 6:28 PM, nesa wrote:

> And here’s mao’s max guide in pictures:
>
> http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/rtol.jpg
> http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/btotop.jpg
>
> http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/encapsulate.jpg
>
> http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/bang.jpg
>
> http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/rtfm.jpg
>
> http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/onemetro.jpg
>
> http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/search.jpg
>
> On Feb 1, 2007, at 7:28 PM, Nick Inhofe wrote:
>
>>
>>>> From the Max46TutorialAndTopics.pdf tutorial #7 summary (pages
>>>> 34, 35)
>>
>> “An object with multiple outlets sends messages out its outlet in
>> order from right-to-left. When multiple patch cords are connected
>> to a single outlet, the messages are sent in right-to-left order,
>> depending on the position of the receiving objects. (If the
>> receiving objects are perfectly aligned vertically, the order is
>> bottom-to-top)”
>>
>

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#95115
Feb 2, 2007 at 12:14am

#95116
Feb 2, 2007 at 4:32am

> And here’s mao’s max guide in pictures….

“So shines a good deed in a weary world.”


paraphrasing Shakespeare>

#95117
Feb 2, 2007 at 10:11am

Fantastic! That really made my day.
I am tempted to pirate the ‘rtfm’ one and substitute
a Final Cut Pro manual cover for the benefit of our
students, but as we have a particularly troublesome
Chinese student here atm, it could be taken the wrong
way ;-)
Btw, when I click the links from the original post
they open as text, whereas they work fine from a post
in which they’re quoted – wtf?
cheers
Roger

— nesa wrote:

> And here’s mao’s max guide in pictures:
>
> http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/rtol.jpg
> http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/btotop.jpg
>
>
http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/encapsulate.jpg
>
> http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/bang.jpg
>
> http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/rtfm.jpg
>
> http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/onemetro.jpg
>
> http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/search.jpg
>

#95118
Feb 2, 2007 at 10:24am

On 2-Feb-2007, at 0:28, nesa wrote:

> http://jit.playground.googlepages.com/search.jpg

This one, in particular, is enormously telling about the original
context.

————– http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/ ————-
Peter Castine +–> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
Universal Binaries on the way
iCE: Sequencing, Recording &
Interface Building for |home | chez nous|
Max/MSP Extremely cool |bei uns | i nostri|
http://www.dspaudio.com/ http://www.castine.de

#95119
Feb 2, 2007 at 2:27pm

Hmmm…. Do grovels cluster by language or country of origin?
I can readily imagine that a certain kind of question might
be common for someone for whom English is a second/third etc.
language, and particularly so if they haven’t adopted the
trick of using the search feature in Acrobat.

But could one actually claim that the sequential grovel
[ask for one solution, connect patch cord, ask for the
next one] is quintessentially an EU thing, whereas the
American asks for everything up front? It’s interesting
to speculate on this as a culturally bound phenonomenon.

The assumption among beginners that there is a single
way to do things appears nearly universal, though. :-)

#95120
Feb 2, 2007 at 4:16pm

On 2-Feb-2007, at 15:27, Gregory Taylor wrote:

> The assumption among beginners that there is a single
> way to do things appears nearly universal, though. :-)

I always introduce the Perl Programmer’s Motto in about the second
meeting of an Introdution to Max class:

TMTOWTDI

Look it up at < http://www.jargondb.org/>.

————– http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/ ————-
Peter Castine +–> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
Universal Binaries on the way
iCE: Sequencing, Recording &
Interface Building for |home | chez nous|
Max/MSP Extremely cool |bei uns | i nostri|
http://www.dspaudio.com/ http://www.castine.de

#95121
Nov 8, 2009 at 11:38am

Bringing up the old thread just to ask a simple question: does anybody knows – what were the initial reasons (usability, historical etc) to choose the rtl-btt message ordering behavior in Max/MSP?

#95122

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