dimitris108

Does anybody has iCE sequencer in max/msp?

I would really like to hear opinions and if is worth it and why.

ice-sequencer-opinions

-------------- Original message -------------- 

> Does anybody has iCE sequencer in max/msp? 

> I would really like to hear opinions and if is worth it and why. 

Me too!  Me too!
-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Dimitris Lambrianos  

>
> Does anybody has iCE sequencer in max/msp? 
>
> I would really like to hear opinions and if is worth it and why. 
> -- 
> http://www.dimitrislambrianos.com/ 


Im also a bit curious, seems like a ton to pay for a list function. Shoot, you can buy renoise for 50 bux. And most trackers are free.

Im also a bit curious, seems like a ton to pay for a list function.  Shoot, you can buy renoise for 50 bux.  And most trackers are free.


I already have Logic pro but has anybody tried that?

I am very curious because it works in Max/msp although Logic can be hooked up...

is it only running on Mac or is there already a win version?

Yes, I would like to know if a windows version will be available.

Subject: [maxmsp] Re: iCE sequencer opinions

> is it only running on Mac or is there already a win version?

Yes, I would like to know if a windows version will be available. 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pieter Volger" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 5:41 AM
Subject: [maxmsp] Re: iCE sequencer opinions

>
> is it only running on Mac or is there already a win version?


On Jan 6, 2007, at 10:38 AM, Anthony Palomba wrote:

> Yes, I would like to know if a windows version will be available.

Peter Castine may be a bit slow responding to this thread. I know he 

is traveling this week and next on family business. Be patient and I 

On Jan 6, 2007, at 10:38 AM, Anthony Palomba wrote:
> Yes, I would like to know if a windows version will be available.

Peter Castine may be a bit slow responding to this thread.  I know he  
is traveling this week and next on family business.  Be patient and I  
am sure he will chime in.

-------------------
Nathan Wolek, PhD --- nwolek@stetson.edu
Assistant Professor of Music Technology
Stetson University - DeLand, FL
http://www.nathanwolek.com

On 6-Jan-2007, at 10:38, Anthony Palomba (and others at other times) 

Yeah, I'd like to know when a Windows version will be ready, too. 

(Sorry, I've been listening to Dave Barry on NPR podcasts).

Here's the straight answer: a Windows version of iCE Tools is a 

pretty high priority for DSPAudio. However, it's a difficult 

challenge for many technical reasons, much more so than any of the 

other approximately 100 Max/MSP external objects I have ported to 

Windows. We do not have a release date at this point in time.

That's all I can say. Sorry not to have more encouraging news for our 

Obviously, we at DSPAudio find iCE Tools useful and valuable. We have 

a number of enthusiastic users, although hardly any of them frequent 

Peter Castine +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter

Interface Building for |home | chez nous|

Max/MSP Extremely cool |bei uns | i nostri|

On 6-Jan-2007, at 10:38, Anthony Palomba (and others at other times)  
wrote:
> Yes, I would like to know if a windows version will be available.

Yeah, I'd like to know when a Windows version will be ready, too.  
(Sorry, I've been listening to Dave Barry on NPR podcasts).

Here's the straight answer: a Windows version of iCE Tools is a  
pretty high priority for DSPAudio. However, it's a difficult  
challenge for many technical reasons, much more so than any of the  
other approximately 100 Max/MSP external objects I have ported to  
Windows. We do not have a release date at this point in time.

That's all I can say. Sorry not to have more encouraging news for our  
potential Windows users.

Obviously, we at DSPAudio find iCE Tools useful and valuable. We have  
a number of enthusiastic users, although hardly any of them frequent  
this list.

--------------    http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/    -------------
Peter Castine             +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
                                Universal Binaries on the way
iCE:  Sequencing,  Recording &
       Interface  Building  for                   |home    | chez nous|
       Max/MSP   Extremely cool                   |bei uns |  i nostri|
       http://www.dspaudio.com/                   http://www.castine.de

I didnt' say I thought it wasn't useful. I am sure theres tons of people who would use it, Maybe I don't fully understand its features, but isn't it a tracker style list of numbers? I tried out that Nortron demo and it seemed like such.

I didnt' say I thought it wasn't useful.  I am sure theres tons of people who would use it,  Maybe I don't fully understand its features, but isn't it a tracker style list of numbers?  I tried out that Nortron demo and it seemed like such.


a friend of mine use to have the old hardware version, and he could get some pretty mad stuff going with it. effectively it's a kind of generative midi hardware sequencer... DSP audio's version is a software interpretation of this rare piece of hardware.

i believe it should be possible to make quite complex sequences with it, certainly more complex than a standard tracker which effectively just plays back what's put in.

perhaps it's more camparable to the old max app "M"...

If you don't mind my asking, what list(s) do they frequent? How did they

find out about iCE tools and why do they use it?

> a number of enthusiastic users, although hardly any of them frequent

If you don't mind my asking, what list(s) do they frequent? How did they
find out about iCE tools and why do they use it?

> We have
> a number of enthusiastic users, although hardly any of them frequent
> this list.
>
> Best,
> Peter


Are there any links to this ice hardware sequencer?

Date: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 9:30 am

Subject: Re: [maxmsp] iCE sequencer opinions

> If you don't mind my asking, what list(s) do they frequent? How 

> find out about iCE tools and why do they use it?

> > a number of enthusiastic users, although hardly any of them frequent

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian E Willkie 
Date: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 9:30 am
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] iCE sequencer opinions

>
>
>
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> If you don't mind my asking, what list(s) do they frequent? How 
> did they
> find out about iCE tools and why do they use it?
>
> Thanks,
> Brian
>
> > We have
> > a number of enthusiastic users, although hardly any of them frequent
> > this list.
> >
> > Best,
> > Peter
>
>


On 10-Jan-2007, at 10:27, Brian E Willkie wrote:

> If you don't mind my asking, what list(s) do they frequent? How did 

I don't mind the question. But I don't know the answer. Sorry. (No, I 

don't know everything, even if I come over that way sometimes:-) I 

can only say that we have spread the word about iCE in other ways 

I would also suggest that a lot more people read this list than 

actively write to it. Others join for a while then unsubcribe (this 

is a fairly high-volume list). So, my choice of the word 'frequent' 

may have been less than perfectly precise.

As for why... I certainly don't know why other people are using it, 

although I expect most users find the paradigm behind ice.lattice 

very powerful for sequencing arbitrary data in arbitrary ways.

> If you don't mind my asking, what list(s) do they frequent? How did  
> they
> find out about iCE tools and why do they use it?

I don't mind the question. But I don't know the answer. Sorry. (No, I  
don't know everything, even if I come over that way sometimes:-) I  
can only say that we have spread the word about iCE in other ways  
besides announcing on this list.

I would also suggest that a lot more people read this list than  
actively write to it. Others join for a while then unsubcribe (this  
is a fairly high-volume list). So, my choice of the word 'frequent'  
may have been less than perfectly precise.

As for why... I certainly don't know why other people are using it,  
although I expect most users find the paradigm behind ice.lattice  
very powerful for sequencing arbitrary data in arbitrary ways.

I assume Justin is talking about Nortron, which is inspired by the 

hardware sequencer. Nortron and iCE Tools are two separate products. 

However, Nortron makes extensive use of the iCE Tools. In fact, it 

would not have been possible to build Nortron without iCE Tools.

- Nortron is a standalone application (ie, it does *not* require you 

to be a Max user/programmer to use it). Nortron is a sequencer.

- The iCE Tools are a set of external objects for use in Max/MSP. You 

*do* need to be a Max user/programmer to do anything productive with 

iCE Tools. You could, for instance, build an emulation of your 

As an example of what iCE Tools can do, I used ice.lattice in a 

recent interactive piece for 'cello to store musical fragments to be 

played back in response to the cellist's improvisation. I couldn't 

find a way to do what I wanted with seq or mtr. What I wanted might 

have been possible with follow, but it was much more straight forward 

The comparison with "M" is charming, although I'd say Nortron is to 

"M" as quiditch is to soccer (or maybe vice versa)...

> a friend of mine use to have the old hardware version, and he could 

> get some pretty mad stuff going with it. effectively it's a kind of 

> generative midi hardware sequencer... DSP audio's version is a 

> software interpretation of this rare piece of hardware.

> i believe it should be possible to make quite complex sequences 

> with it, certainly more complex than a standard tracker which 

> effectively just plays back what's put in.

> perhaps it's more camparable to the old max app "M"...

I assume Justin is talking about Nortron, which is inspired by the  
hardware sequencer. Nortron and iCE Tools are two separate products.  
However, Nortron makes extensive use of the iCE Tools. In fact, it  
would not have been possible to build Nortron without iCE Tools.

- Nortron is a standalone application (ie, it does *not* require you  
to be a Max user/programmer to use it). Nortron is a sequencer.

- The iCE Tools are a set of external objects for use in Max/MSP. You  
*do* need to be a Max user/programmer to do anything productive with  
iCE Tools. You could, for instance, build an emulation of your  
favorite hardware sequencer with iCE.

As an example of what iCE Tools can do, I used ice.lattice in a  
recent interactive piece for 'cello to store musical fragments to be  
played back in response to the cellist's improvisation. I couldn't  
find a way to do what I wanted with seq or mtr. What I wanted might  
have been possible with follow, but it was much more straight forward  
to do with lattice.

The comparison with "M" is charming, although I'd say Nortron is to  
"M" as quiditch is to soccer (or maybe vice versa)...

>
> a friend of mine use to have the old hardware version, and he could  
> get some pretty mad stuff going with it. effectively it's a kind of  
> generative midi hardware sequencer... DSP audio's version is a  
> software interpretation of this rare piece of hardware.
>
> i believe it should be possible to make quite complex sequences  
> with it, certainly more complex than a standard tracker which  
> effectively just plays back what's put in.
>
> perhaps it's more camparable to the old max app "M"...
>
> j

I visited the Kagi page. One place seems to be offering an UB version while

On 1/10/07 12:12 PM, "Peter Castine" wrote:

> On 10-Jan-2007, at 10:27, Brian E Willkie wrote:

>> If you don't mind my asking, what list(s) do they frequent? How did

>> find out about iCE tools and why do they use it?

> I don't mind the question. But I don't know the answer. Sorry. (No, I

> don't know everything, even if I come over that way sometimes:-) I

> can only say that we have spread the word about iCE in other ways

> I would also suggest that a lot more people read this list than

> actively write to it. Others join for a while then unsubcribe (this

> is a fairly high-volume list). So, my choice of the word 'frequent'

> may have been less than perfectly precise.

> As for why... I certainly don't know why other people are using it,

> although I expect most users find the paradigm behind ice.lattice

> very powerful for sequencing arbitrary data in arbitrary ways.

> Peter Castine +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter

> Interface Building for |home | chez nous|

> Max/MSP Extremely cool |bei uns | i nostri|

I visited the Kagi page.  One place seems to be offering an UB version while
another says coming soon.

On 1/10/07 12:12 PM, "Peter Castine"  wrote:

> On 10-Jan-2007, at 10:27, Brian E Willkie wrote:
>
>> If you don't mind my asking, what list(s) do they frequent? How did
>> they
>> find out about iCE tools and why do they use it?
>
> I don't mind the question. But I don't know the answer. Sorry. (No, I
> don't know everything, even if I come over that way sometimes:-) I
> can only say that we have spread the word about iCE in other ways
> besides announcing on this list.
>
> I would also suggest that a lot more people read this list than
> actively write to it. Others join for a while then unsubcribe (this
> is a fairly high-volume list). So, my choice of the word 'frequent'
> may have been less than perfectly precise.
>
> As for why... I certainly don't know why other people are using it,
> although I expect most users find the paradigm behind ice.lattice
> very powerful for sequencing arbitrary data in arbitrary ways.
>
> Best -- Peter
>
> --------------    http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/    -------------
> Peter Castine             +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
>                                 Universal Binaries on the way
> iCE:  Sequencing,  Recording &
>        Interface  Building  for                   |home    | chez nous|
>        Max/MSP   Extremely cool                   |bei uns |  i nostri|
>        http://www.dspaudio.com/                   http://www.castine.de
>
>

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

> The comparison with "M" is charming, although I'd say Nortron is > to "M" as quiditch is to soccer (or maybe vice versa)...

altho in the land of harry potter, its called football - or more simply put - the beautiful game.

sad truth being the national team are crap...

On 10-Jan-2007, at 12:12, Peter Castine wrote:

My spelling skills seem to have been going down hill badly in the 

last few days, cumulating in an absolutely inexcusable typo of 

Sorry for wasting bandwidth on this, but if I don't apologize I won't 

-- P. (on tenterhooks waiting for "Deathly Hallows"!-)

On 10-Jan-2007, at 12:12, Peter Castine wrote:
> Nortron is to "M" as ...

My spelling skills seem to have been going down hill badly in the  
last few days, cumulating in an absolutely inexcusable typo of  
Quidditch.

Sorry for wasting bandwidth on this, but if I don't apologize I won't  
be able to sleep tonight.

--------------    http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/    -------------
Peter Castine             +--> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
                                Universal Binaries on the way
iCE:  Sequencing,  Recording &
       Interface  Building  for                   |home    | chez nous|
       Max/MSP   Extremely cool                   |bei uns |  i nostri|
       http://www.dspaudio.com/                   http://www.castine.de


On 10-Jan-2007, at 12:23, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:

> I visited the Kagi page. One place seems to be offering an UB 

The UB version is nominally "beta" and distributed to all users who 

ask for it, although AFAICT it works fine and should be accorded 

On 10-Jan-2007, at 12:23, Gary Lee Nelson wrote:
> I visited the Kagi page.  One place seems to be offering an UB  
> version while
> another says coming soon.

The UB version is nominally "beta" and distributed to all users who  
ask for it, although AFAICT it works fine and should be accorded  
release status.

> altho in the land of harry potter, its called football

Well, yes, it's called football everywhere in the English-speaking 

world (both real and fantastical) except the US. My use of the word 

"soccer" was to avoid misunderstandings amongst the Stateside 

Well, yes, it's called football everywhere in the English-speaking  
world (both real and fantastical) except the US. My use of the word  
"soccer" was to avoid misunderstandings amongst the Stateside  
readership.

How about a piano roll? detonate works poorly, and has no tempo sync.. if someone made a well made piano roll that would be popular I think.

How about a piano roll?  detonate works poorly, and has no tempo sync.. if someone made a well made piano roll that would be popular I think.


On 10-Jan-2007, at 1:02, Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:

> Maybe I don't fully understand its features, but isn't it a tracker 

> style list of numbers? I tried out that Nortron demo and it seemed 

I had not intended to go into this in depth, but given the above, 

iCE Tools are much more than ice.lattice. Granted, lattice is the 

core of the package, but lattice does a lot more than handle numbers. 

Each lattice row can hold anything a message box can handle: ints, 

floats, symbols, lists, arbitrary messages. And more: a row can 

contain delay and repeat instructions, allowing you to fine-tune 

timing and implement echo effects, etc. Each bang normally moves to 

the next row, but you can also bang through a lattice backwards, or 

yo-yo. There are other options, like going through backwards measure- 

by-measure (but playing through the rows in each measure front-to- 

back). You can fill a lattice by interpolating between any two 

values already in the lattice. Interpolation can be linear, 

exponential, parabolic... (think: the guy who wrote lattice also 

brought you the scaling functions available in lp.scampf & Co.) 

Lattice is particularly powerful with floating point frequency 

values: it has tables allowing you, with a single keystroke, to enter 

frequencies for tempered and non-tempered intonations, including 

things like the Lucy scale. You can even define your own keyboard 

mappings for a non-tempered scale of your own devising. You can even 

map keystrokes to arbitrary symbols. And more.

Don't forget that any lattice can manage up to 16,000 patterns. Each 

pattern can hold up to 2,147,483,647 rows (limited only by available 

virtual memory). Lattice is designed to be fast even with large data 

sets, whereas you will find that other objects for handling arbitrary 

data sets slow down for really large data sets. These sorts of data 

set sizes and data flexibility are far beyond what other tracker 

sequencers will offer you. Lattice is a *toolkit* for building a 

tracker-style sequencer, but it goes far beyond what standard 

sequencers can do (even if it tries to look like a classic tracker).

And there's more: ice.pump is a tool allowing you to control multiple 

lattices from a single computer keyboard: shift focus, synchronize 

multiple lattices, etc. You will typically have one lattice per pump 

outlet, and pump will sprout up to 2,500 outlets if you ask it to. 

Ice.key will do everything the standard key object won't let you do: 

optionally field keystrokes when Max is in the background, field 

keystrokes even when Max thinks some other UI object has focus, 

handle key down, key up, auto-key, get "dead" keys (like option-e, 