gamuso

im-new-whats-the-diference-with-live

Quote: gamuso wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 13:33

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Quote: gamuso wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 13:33
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> Hello, I


but using live together with other small applications, the IAC driver, your imagination and some scripts and other stuff everething can be done... without becoming cracy.

so, can anybody tell me some concrete thing that can be achieved with cycling software but not with live?

Quote: gamuso wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 14:04

> but using live together with other small applications, the IAC driver, your imagination and some scripts and other stuff everething can be done... without becoming cracy.

So.. why exactly are you looking for something else?

> so, can anybody tell me some concrete thing that can be achieved with cycling software but not with live?

Is there anything specific you'd want to do? I can think of an endless amount of things that can be done with MaxMSP that can't be done with Live, like building your own synths and effects, feeding multiple live camera inputs into a 3D environment, compiling the bassiest parts of a database of samples into a new algorithmic soundscape, start an audio recording as soon as your colleague dials one out of a selection of numbers on her company phone, stream the recording over a network to a computer in the next room and lock the door of her office when your name is mentioned twice after five minutes.

But it's hard to say whether these apply to you. It can very well be true that for your requirements, Live with some plugins and scripts is perfect.

Btw, I am not a cycling '74 official, just a user. If you need promotional material about the products cycling '74 offers I wouldn't recommend to access the users community but I'd just send a request to info(at)cycling74.com. Although I don't recall ever seeing a readymade flyer with flashy one-liners or anything..

Quote: gamuso wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 14:04
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> Yes, I know that...
>
> but using live together with other small applications, the IAC driver, your imagination and some scripts and other stuff everething can be done... without becoming cracy.

>
> so, can anybody tell me some concrete thing that can be achieved with cycling software but not with live?

But it's hard to say whether these apply to you. It can very well be true that for your requirements, Live with some plugins and scripts is perfect. 

>
>
> thank you so.
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I'm not a live user but i'd imagine you'd have a hard time doing this with live:

http://www.soundofcities.com/Magazin/SoundtrapII.html

http://youtube.com/results?search_query=cycling%2074&search=Search

> I'm not a live user but i'd imagine you'd have a hard time doing this with live:

check out the inverviews on youtube:
http://youtube.com/results?search_query=cycling%2074&search=Search

On 7/10/07, Leafcutter John  wrote:
>
> I'm not a live user but i'd imagine you'd have a hard time doing this with live:
>
> http://www.soundofcities.com/Magazin/SoundtrapII.html
>
> best,
>
> john.
> --
> http://www.leafcutterjohn.com
>
> "The Forest And The Sea"
> Out on Staubgold Records
> June 6th (US) 12th (Rest of the world)
> Staubgold 68 CD/LP
>


I just got live last week, ableton is about to collab with c74 which is extreeeemly exciting to me.

comparing max and live is not very useful, there are two different things entirely. max can do whatever you want but you have to do alot more work, live is ready and there for you to just click a few times and have something clean sounding going.

comparing max and live is not very useful, there are two different things entirely.  max can do whatever you want but you have to do alot more work, live is ready and there for you to just click a few times and have something clean sounding going.


 Only just an impression of what we do of course, but everything in that movie is MaxMSP..

Quote: wesley.hoke@gmail.com wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 17:04

> > I'm not a live user but i'd imagine you'd have a hard time doing this with live:

> > June 6th (US) 12th (Rest of the world)

And of course http://www.smadsteck.nl/. Only just an impression of what we do of course, but everything in that movie is MaxMSP..

Quote: wesley.hoke@gmail.com wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 17:04
----------------------------------------------------
> check out the inverviews on youtube:
> http://youtube.com/results?search_query=cycling%2074&search=Search
>
> wes
>
> On 7/10/07, Leafcutter John  wrote:
> >
> > I'm not a live user but i'd imagine you'd have a hard time doing this with live:
> >
> > http://www.soundofcities.com/Magazin/SoundtrapII.html
> >
> > best,
> >
> > john.
> > --
> > http://www.leafcutterjohn.com
> >
> > "The Forest And The Sea"
> > Out on Staubgold Records
> > June 6th (US) 12th (Rest of the world)
> > Staubgold 68 CD/LP
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------


Max is most certainly not limited to music and sequencing either. It provides a graphical programming environment for anything that can be represented by numbers -- everything in the digital realm from audio to video to databases to vectors to logical structures to ... ...

Live is fantastic and can be augmented well by Max but is totally workable as a stand-alone. Max can do a lot more variety of things but some of the more sophisticated stuff requires a lot of fiddling. That same fiddling has already been done in an app like Live -- you're the end user of an app that is very very flexible and does a lot of things in music very well. But it's not a programming environment of nearly the scope of Max, nor does it need or claim to be for how it's generally used.

I love building little scraps and doodads and seeing what they do in Max, though admittedly I haven't produced much music with it. That's OK, the process and "thinking structures" are more than enough to keep me interested, I just keep going to the next experiment. As an example, for my dissertation I originally was going to develop music theory and keyboarding curricula in Max, and this is certainly quite doable in this well-suited environment. Now I'm going to develop elementary and middle-school Math Ed modules and curricula instead...another perfect project for Max, especially with its support for Javascript and OpenGL.

Just some of the pretty-much-infinite things you can do with this seemingly-never-ending software. It just depends what you want to do and how much you like tinkering.

The question is not what can you do with Max. Max allows 

to do ANYTHING you want to do. The real question is what 

do you really want to do. Ableton is an application that does 

what it does. The problem is, you will never be able to 

go beyond what it does. If all you want to do is mix loops 

together and sequence then I guess you don't need Max.

Subject: [maxmsp] Re: Re: I� m new!. What�    s the 

> what we do of course, but everything in that movie is MaxMSP..

> Quote: wesley.hoke@gmail.com wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 17:04

> ----------------------------------------------------

> > > I'm not a live user but i'd imagine you'd have a hard time 

> > > June 6th (US) 12th (Rest of the world)

> Hard- and software for interactive audiovisual sampling

The question is not what can you do with Max. Max allows 
to do ANYTHING you want to do. The real question is what 
do you really want to do. Ableton is an application that does 
what it does. The problem is, you will never be able to 
go beyond what it does. If all you want to do is mix loops 
together and sequence then I guess you don't need Max.

----- Original Message -----
From: Mattijs Kneppers 
Date: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 12:25 pm
Subject: [maxmsp] Re:  Re: I� m new!. What�	s the 
diference with live?

>
> And of course http://www.smadsteck.nl/. Only just an impression of 
> what we do of course, but everything in that movie is MaxMSP..
>
> Mattijs
>
> Quote: wesley.hoke@gmail.com wrote on Tue, 10 July 2007 17:04
> ----------------------------------------------------
> > check out the inverviews on youtube:
> > http://youtube.com/results?search_query=cycling%2074&search=Search
> >
> > wes
> >
> > On 7/10/07, Leafcutter John  wrote:
> > >
> > > I'm not a live user but i'd imagine you'd have a hard time 
> doing this with live:
> > >
> > > http://www.soundofcities.com/Magazin/SoundtrapII.html
> > >
> > > best,
> > >
> > > john.
> > > --
> > > http://www.leafcutterjohn.com
> > >
> > > "The Forest And The Sea"
> > > Out on Staubgold Records
> > > June 6th (US) 12th (Rest of the world)
> > > Staubgold 68 CD/LP
> > >
> >
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
>
> --
> SmadSteck - http://www.smadsteck.nl
> Hard- and software for interactive audiovisual sampling
>


On 10 Jul 2007, at 15:54, Leafcutter John wrote:

> I'm not a live user but i'd imagine you'd have a hard time doing 

or any of thousands of other projects which go past on this list.

Actually, I'm rather fond of Live, and tend to use Live plus MaxMSP 

in tandem when performing, either Rewired together or via Pluggo.

> I'm not a live user but i'd imagine you'd have a hard time doing  
> this with live:
>
> http://www.soundofcities.com/Magazin/SoundtrapII.html

Actually, I'm rather fond of Live, and tend to use Live plus MaxMSP  
in tandem when performing, either Rewired together or via Pluggo.

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
www.cassiel.com
www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
www.loadbang.net


Another example: while apps like Live allow you to record parameter automations and have full Undo functionality (no small feats, to be sure), what about being able to play back those automations at any speed (independent of global tempo? in either direction? accessing them non-linearly? providing a wealth of interpolation types between any points within them? redirecting certain changing parameters to new targets? how about saving "automations of your automations" so that *sequences* of full, pre-recorded automations are possible?

For undos -- you can save all your past history states of your interface objects in data files, then access them at will. Not many apps allow one to, say, automatically scroll through your past 100 history states of parameters (or any subset) at any speed or direction, using lots of different interpolations, while your sequence is playing, to see how they affect the result.

For audio files: while creating a rich editor for audio files in Max would take some effort, the waveform~ object (with only a couple hours of development), I feel, competes quite well with those in commercial apps like Audition or Live, and can boast unique features like automated zoom, practically unlimited selection history (accessible any way one wishes including non-linearly), highly flexible and malleable snap-to-grid, and so on. And when you've chosen your loopable selection, the playback possibilities for looping can definitely be superior (given the level of control / automation / modulation possible with signals to groove~). Not to mention that one can have as many instances of the waveform~ going simultaneously as one wants and that your computer can handle.

These kinds of manipulations of your data are pretty straightforward in Max and can produce some really interesting and unique results. In particular, real-time changing of these manipulations themselves are where Max really shines and can provide functionality that is rare elsewhere, or is at least cumbersome to achieve.

For undos -- you can save all your past history states of your interface objects in data files, then access them at will. Not many apps allow one to, say, automatically scroll through your past 100 history states of parameters (or any subset) at any speed or direction, using lots of different interpolations, while your sequence is playing, to see how they affect the result. 

> but using live together with other small applications, the IAC

> driver, your imagination and some scripts and other stuff everething

Yeah, you would need Max only if you are already crazy...

How do you create an algorithmic sound installation which never repeats 

itself in Live, and would run for several years? Even if you could do 

overlapping loops of irrational length ratios, the rules I implemented 

in Max would not be possible, unless I create a Pluggo in Max which 

If you want to explore the continuum versus an event based thinking, I 

guess it will be very difficult in Live, though it might be possible, 

but why easy, if you can have it complicated...

> so, can anybody tell me some concrete thing that can be achieved with

You horizont seems to be limited to score/timeline based music. You 

probably haven't explored the limits of Live yet. If you're happy with 

And don't get me wrong, you can do stuff in Live easily, which would be 

hard to achieve in Max. (Though it would still be possible...)

But all my music would have just never happened without my own 

gamuso schrieb:
> but using live together with other small applications, the IAC
> driver, your imagination and some scripts and other stuff everething
> can be done... without becoming cracy.

How do you create an algorithmic sound installation which never repeats 
itself in Live, and would run for several years? Even if you could do 
overlapping loops of irrational length ratios, the rules I implemented 
in Max would not be possible, unless I create a Pluggo in Max which 
implements them.

If you want to explore the continuum versus an event based thinking, I 
guess it will be very difficult in Live, though it might be possible, 
but why easy, if you can have it complicated...

> so, can anybody tell me some concrete thing that can be achieved with
> cycling software but not with live?

You horizont seems to be limited to score/timeline based music. You 
probably haven't explored the limits of Live yet. If you're happy with 
Live, stick with it...

And don't get me wrong, you can do stuff in Live easily, which would be 
hard to achieve in Max. (Though it would still be possible...)

But all my music would have just never happened without my own 
programming, most of it in Max...

-- 
Stefan Tiedje------------x-------
--_____-----------|--------------
--(_|_ ----|-----|-----()-------
-- _|_)----|-----()--------------
----------()--------www.ccmix.com

I´m new!. What´s the diference with live?