Impressive synthesis patches?
Mar 5, 2008 at 12:33pm
Impressive synthesis patches?
Does anyone have nice, impressive-sounding synthesis patches they would be
I am looking to collect some good demos for teaching purposes to give
- sounds good: rich, professional sounding, e.g. nice ‘pads’, ‘lead synth’
Something where you can just plug your MIDI keyboard in and enjoy straight
Mar 5, 2008 at 2:57pm
Mar 5, 2008 at 11:19pm
Jamie Bullock schrieb:
As teacher you should impress your students with your knowledge, not
> – sounds good: rich, professional sounding, e.g. nice ‘pads’, ‘lead synth’
Any good sounding, rich, professional, e.g. boring vst instrument…
Nothing will impress your students less than ‘pads’, ‘lead synth’ sounds
Give them what they don’t expect… Teaching is like art, going beyond
Mar 5, 2008 at 11:43pm
> As teacher you should impress your students with your knowledge, not with Max/MSP…
i don’t think that this is about being impressive as a teacher, but rather about convincing students (who are used to software that has a completed, user-friendly feel to it) that max can do the same things that they see in other software just as well, and can go much beyond that. it’s quite obvious that max can do really really low-level stuff, and can theoretically accomplish anything. however, it is significantly less often that you see patches that are “complete” in the same sense as other audio software. just because assembly code can accomplish literally anything on a computer doesn’t mean that it’s appealing to a programmer wanting create a word processor that has some new interesting feature to it. the same applies to max. it is incredibly powerful. however, most patches tend to be monstrosities that make sense only to the creator. i’m not saying that’s a bad thing (i do it all the time), but it isn’t exactly appealing to most students without serious coding background.
> Any good sounding, rich, professional, e.g. boring vst instrument…
.. but what if they want to create some kind of sequencing and routing environment that has the same features as “boring vsts” and “pop studios” but expands on them in ways that have never been done before. max is capable of virtually anything. it should therefore be capable of making the same “boring” crap as the rest of the audio industry. and it can do it better. and change it. and go beyond it.
i don’t think that one should criticize a person (or their students) for sometimes wanting patches with the same “completed” feel as most other audio software. perhaps that isn’t really what max is primarily about, but it isn’t necessarily a bad ideal.
(i don’t mean any offense by this, and i’m sorry if i come off as such. i personally started writing in c long before i encountered max. to me, low-level bottom-up creation is fantastic, but that can be overwhelming for people not used to it)
Mar 6, 2008 at 8:10am
But Max can’t do it in the same user-friendly feel. If they need a
> however, it is significantly less often that you see patches that are
It’s the nature of the beast, because they don’t need to serve thousands
> .. but what if they want to create some kind of sequencing and
I usually ask students for their musical heros, to get an idea where
> i don’t think that one should criticize a person (or their students)
I agree, it’s not at all a bad idea. But only in the context of
Mar 6, 2008 at 9:17am
Thanks for the comments so far. I feel that I should clarify my request
This is for a *synthesis* course. It is a technical course aimed at
One approach I could take is to get a really polished-sounding (‘boring’
So the question still remains, does anyone have such synth patches that
On Thu, 2008-03-06 at 09:10 +0100, Stefan Tiedje wrote:
Some of the students will want to make ultra-cheesy commercial-sounding
Mar 6, 2008 at 1:19pm
Have you considered Native Instruments Reaktor? This combines impressive factory synths with a high degree of modularity, allowing the user to analyze and recombine the functional elements at the level of individual signal generators, etc or to create new instruments from scratch. As others have observed on this list, it’s not so low level as Max and thus less interesting to the programmer, but seems to be a better bet for synth creation purposes. It can also function as a vst in MAX.> Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Re: Impressive synthesis patches?> From: firstname.lastname@example.org> To: email@example.com> Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 09:17:34 +0000> > > Hi folks,> > Thanks for the comments so far. I feel that I should clarify my request> a bit since there seems to be some misunderstanding about why I am> looking for these ‘polished’ synth patches, and what the students are> supposed to be learning from them.> > This is for a *synthesis* course. It is a technical course aimed at> learning about various types of synthesis and how synthesisers work.> *Part* of the learning process is about understanding how commercial> synths work, and making something similar ‘from scratch’. > > One approach I could take is to get a really polished-sounding (‘boring’> as Stefan suggests) VST instrument, and show the students how to> build/reverse engineer it in Max/MSP. However, I would much rather take> a similar instrument already built in Max/MSP, and dismantle it to> discover how it works. As a teacher I find this process of ‘taking> things apart’ a very good springboard for discussion and exploration.> For me it works well alongside a bottom-up approach.> > So the question still remains, does anyone have such synth patches that> they would be willing to share that meet these criteria? If not, I might> have a go at making one myself, but obviously I don’t want to re-invent> the wheel (sic).> > On Thu, 2008-03-06 at 09:10 +0100, Stefan Tiedje wrote:> > I agree, it’s not at all a bad idea. But only in the context of > > learning. It’s hard wanting to be the same as your hero. It will never > > work.> > It’s important, to show the students, that their own value is already > > beyond what they know till now, that finding your own “thing” is > > actually easier and much more interesting for others as well, than > > trying to mimic ones hero.> > Some of the students will want to make ultra-cheesy commercial-sounding> synths, some of them will want to make experimental and radical> mind-bending synths. Some of them will work in a very deterministic way> copying schematic diagrams etc, others will be more exploratory. Our> approach is to give them the skills and support so that they can do all> of these things.> > Jamie> > — > http://www.postlude.co.uk> > _______________________________________________> maxmsp mailing list> firstname.lastname@example.orgTelly addicts unite!
Mar 6, 2008 at 1:29pm
> So the question still remains, does anyone have such synth patches that
I’d think that what you’ve described is *exactly* the reason I’d build the thing myself – I could arrange to order and put in the things I wanted to touch upon. There are lots of places where I simply couldn’t guarantee someone else would do that [line~ and messages vs. adsr~, biquad filters vs svf~] and I’d be pedagogically happier with knowing things were there because I put ‘em there.
Have you considered looking at the tutorials of others? Certainly, Darwin Grosse’s synth-building tutorials on creativesynth.com are models of good design and pedagogical elegance, as are the Ma(r)x stuff. Michael Z. at CNMAT has some things you might find useful also.
It doesn’t have to be slick or whizzy. You’d probably be surprised at the number of Big Name Acts whose Max patches have the SimpleFM patch from the MSP tutorials sitting at their center, remarkably unmodified, ditto with Nathan Wolek’s granular workshop help files.
Just a thought….
Mar 6, 2008 at 1:57pm
On Mar 6, 2008, at 8:29 AM, Gregory Taylor wrote:
> Certainly, Darwin Grosse’s synth-building tutorials on
I totally agree, but for months now I get a ‘falled to find server’
Mar 6, 2008 at 2:52pm
Quote: Bradford Garton wrote on Thu, 06 March 2008 06:57
They moved some time ago. They’re here:
Mar 6, 2008 at 3:35pm
> On Mar 6, 2008, at 8:29 AM, Gregory Taylor wrote:
If the OP means these tutorials:
They’ve been moved to the c74 site!
Actually I’ve already made use of these in some labs, and I agree that
Mar 6, 2008 at 4:20pm
I’m starting to think along the same lines.
> Have you considered looking at the tutorials of others? Certainly,
Yes, I’m aware of these, but thanks for the pointer.
>Michael Z. at CNMAT has some things you might find useful also.
I didn’t know about those even though I’ve had the CNMAT bundle on my
Thanks for the info,
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