I have been using Max for a 2 months and know the basics of passing numbers around. I have used Max with a hacked games controller which brings in sensor data.

I have set myself the task of making a composition out of sounds entirely generated, all from the cycle cosine generators.

My problem is I want to make interesting sounds, I find looking for a pleasing sound by changing input values in a trial and error approach is a lengthy process which is akin to trying to tune a broken radio.

Searched the forum and web for synthetic instruments in MaxMSP no luck. Is anyone making music using this approach with any success?

I get the impression most people use MaxMSP to manipulate existing sounds. If anyone builds sounds from nothing, do you examples I can look at or suggestions?

Hello
I have been using Max for a 2 months and know the basics of passing numbers around. I have used Max with a hacked games controller which brings in sensor data. 

I get the impression most people use MaxMSP to manipulate existing sounds. If anyone builds sounds from nothing, do you examples I can look at or suggestions?


interesting-sounds-from-msp

you can build any sound out of sine waves, check out the CNMAT spectral 

synthesis tutorial for some basics... the free app SPEAR is a good tool for 

getting a feel for how to build sounds out of sine waves, because it 

deconstructs any sound that you feed it into a set of sine waves, which you 

can then experiment with to learn how each contributes to the overall sound.

With control over the frequency and amplitude as a function of time of 

enough sine waves, you can make any sound

I'm in the process of building a synth in max that will allow more easy 

manipulation of the sine wave information produced by SPEAR than is allowed 

in SPEAR in certain ways, and which will therefore hopefully help the user 

get a better understanding of how each sine wave in a sound contributes to 

the overall sound. I just need to find out a way to get SDIF time tags out 

of the SDIF file and into max as a set of numbers... if anyone knows how to 

do this, please tell me, i'm totally stumped on this and it's the one 

roadblock in the way of my completing this

Subject: [maxmsp] Interesting Sounds From MSP?

> I have been using Max for a 2 months and know the basics of passing 

> numbers around. I have used Max with a hacked games controller which 

> I have set myself the task of making a composition out of sounds entirely 

> generated, all from the cycle cosine generators.

> My problem is I want to make interesting sounds, I find looking for a 

> pleasing sound by changing input values in a trial and error approach is a 

> lengthy process which is akin to trying to tune a broken radio.

> Searched the forum and web for synthetic instruments in MaxMSP no luck. Is 

> anyone making music using this approach with any success?

> I get the impression most people use MaxMSP to manipulate existing sounds. 

> If anyone builds sounds from nothing, do you examples I can look at or 

you can build any sound out of sine waves, check out the CNMAT spectral 
synthesis tutorial for some basics... the free app SPEAR is a good tool for 
getting a feel for how to build sounds out of sine waves, because it 
deconstructs any sound that you feed it into a set of sine waves, which you 
can then experiment with to learn how each contributes to the overall sound.

With control over the frequency and amplitude as a function of time of 
enough sine waves, you can make any sound

I'm in the process of building a synth in max that will allow more easy 
manipulation of the sine wave information produced by SPEAR than is allowed 
in SPEAR in certain ways, and which will therefore hopefully help the user 
get a better understanding of how each sine wave in a sound contributes to 
the overall sound.  I just need to find out a way to get SDIF time tags out 
of the SDIF file and into max as a set of numbers... if anyone knows how to 
do this, please tell me, i'm totally stumped on this and it's the one 
roadblock in the way of my completing this

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "cq" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:44 AM
Subject: [maxmsp] Interesting Sounds From MSP?

>
> Hello
> I have been using Max for a 2 months and know the basics of passing 
> numbers around. I have used Max with a hacked games controller which 
> brings in sensor data.
>
> I have set myself the task of making a composition out of sounds entirely 
> generated, all from the cycle cosine generators.
>
> My problem is I want to make interesting sounds, I find looking for a 
> pleasing sound by changing input values in a trial and error approach is a 
> lengthy process which is akin to trying to tune a broken radio.
>
> Searched the forum and web for synthetic instruments in MaxMSP no luck. Is 
> anyone making music using this approach with any success?
>
> I get the impression most people use MaxMSP to manipulate existing sounds. 
> If anyone builds sounds from nothing, do you examples I can look at or 
> suggestions?
>


much the opposite, Ive used max mostly for creating things from scratch.. Though the FFTease are great for processing. Theres too many options and variables for me to begin listing possibilities, but if your staying with sine waves only, I would say you should try some FM synthesis

and for the mantra of the max list newbie

much the opposite, Ive used max mostly for creating things from scratch.. Though the FFTease are great for processing.  Theres too many options and variables for me to begin listing possibilities, but if your staying with sine waves only, I would say you should try some FM synthesis

I use it quite a bit for synthesis. With cycle~ you could have

additive synthesis, which can at times be surprisingly fresh. There's

also Amplitude Modulation, Frequency Modulation, Phase modulation, all

of those with feedback, multiple carrier modulation, multiple

modulator modulation. You can also do granular synthesis using only

sine waves. Hmmm... all that's coming right now, but I'm sure there's

more. It's more about how you use them, I've found.

> I have been using Max for a 2 months and know the basics of passing numbers around. I have used Max with a hacked games controller which brings in sensor data.

> I have set myself the task of making a composition out of sounds entirely generated, all from the cycle cosine generators.

> My problem is I want to make interesting sounds, I find looking for a pleasing sound by changing input values in a trial and error approach is a lengthy process which is akin to trying to tune a broken radio.

> Searched the forum and web for synthetic instruments in MaxMSP no luck. Is anyone making music using this approach with any success?

> I get the impression most people use MaxMSP to manipulate existing sounds. If anyone builds sounds from nothing, do you examples I can look at or suggestions?

I use it quite a bit for synthesis.  With cycle~ you could have
additive synthesis, which can at times be surprisingly fresh.  There's
also Amplitude Modulation, Frequency Modulation, Phase modulation, all
of those with feedback, multiple carrier modulation, multiple
modulator modulation.  You can also do granular synthesis using only
sine waves.  Hmmm... all that's coming right now, but I'm sure there's
more.  It's more about how you use them, I've found.

On 2/2/07, cq  wrote:
>
> Hello
> I have been using Max for a 2 months and know the basics of passing numbers around. I have used Max with a hacked games controller which brings in sensor data.
>
> I have set myself the task of making a composition out of sounds entirely generated, all from the cycle cosine generators.
>
> My problem is I want to make interesting sounds, I find looking for a pleasing sound by changing input values in a trial and error approach is a lengthy process which is akin to trying to tune a broken radio.
>
> Searched the forum and web for synthetic instruments in MaxMSP no luck. Is anyone making music using this approach with any success?
>
> I get the impression most people use MaxMSP to manipulate existing sounds. If anyone builds sounds from nothing, do you examples I can look at or suggestions?
>
>


I use [rtcmix~] and [chuck~] for all my synthesis needs (but I _would_, 

wouldn't I? :-)). Lots of interesting physical-model techniques are 

imbedded in these. Plus check out [csound~], and the percolate objects 

I use [rtcmix~] and [chuck~] for all my synthesis needs (but I _would_, 
wouldn't I?  :-)).  Lots of interesting physical-model techniques are 
imbedded in these.  Plus check out [csound~], and the percolate objects 
are always a barrel of fun.

 	[rtcmix~] -- http://rtcmix.org/rtcmix~/
 	[chuck~] -- http://music.columbia.edu/~brad/chuck~/
 	[csound~] -- http://www.davixology.com/csound~.html/
 	peRcOLaTE -- http://music.columbia.edu/PeRColate/

>
> Hello
> I have been using Max for a 2 months and know the basics of passing numbers around. I have used Max with a hacked games controller which brings in sensor data.
>
> I have set myself the task of making a composition out of sounds entirely generated, all from the cycle cosine generators.
>
> My problem is I want to make interesting sounds, I find looking for a pleasing sound by changing input values in a trial and error approach is a lengthy process which is akin to trying to tune a broken radio.
>
> Searched the forum and web for synthetic instruments in MaxMSP no luck. Is anyone making music using this approach with any success?
>
> I get the impression most people use MaxMSP to manipulate existing sounds. If anyone builds sounds from nothing, do you examples I can look at or suggestions?
>
>


I am moving toward SuperCollider for this kind of thing. SC has some

complexity but the documentation is very good and well worth working

I am using it much like poly~. SC can be made to create instances of a

"player" dynamically. Csound~ and rtcmix~ do this too but I find sc's

syntax more succinct (to my tastes) with the added advantage that I can run

multiple copies of it on machines in a network.

You can interface max and sc via udpsend/udpreceive AND sc is free!

I still use max for algorithmic things and as a system controller.

A note about ioscbank~... Don't forget the copybuf capability. Additive

synthesis with more complex wave shapes is super. You can use gen9 and gen10

from the percolate package to load buffers with arbitrary data.

> I have been using Max for a 2 months and know the basics of passing numbers

> around. I have used Max with a hacked games controller which brings in sensor

> I have set myself the task of making a composition out of sounds entirely

> My problem is I want to make interesting sounds, I find looking for a pleasing

> sound by changing input values in a trial and error approach is a lengthy

> process which is akin to trying to tune a broken radio.

> Searched the forum and web for synthetic instruments in MaxMSP no luck. Is

> I get the impression most people use MaxMSP to manipulate existing sounds. If

> anyone builds sounds from nothing, do you examples I can look at or

I am moving toward SuperCollider for this kind of thing.  SC has some
complexity but the documentation is very good and well worth working
through.  

I am using it much like poly~. SC can be made to create instances of a
"player" dynamically.  Csound~ and rtcmix~ do this too but I find sc's
syntax more succinct (to my tastes) with the added advantage that I can run
multiple copies of it on machines in a network.

A note about ioscbank~... Don't forget the copybuf capability.  Additive
synthesis with more complex wave shapes is super. You can use gen9 and gen10
from the percolate package to load buffers with arbitrary data.

Cheers
Gary Lee Nelson
Oberlin College
www.timara.oberlin.edu/GaryLeeNelson

>
> Hello
> I have been using Max for a 2 months and know the basics of passing numbers
> around. I have used Max with a hacked games controller which brings in sensor
> data. 
>
> I have set myself the task of making a composition out of sounds entirely
> generated, all from the cycle cosine generators.
>
> My problem is I want to make interesting sounds, I find looking for a pleasing
> sound by changing input values in a trial and error approach is a lengthy
> process which is akin to trying to tune a broken radio.
>
> Searched the forum and web for synthetic instruments in MaxMSP no luck. Is
> anyone making music using this approach with any success?
>
> I get the impression most people use MaxMSP to manipulate existing sounds. If
> anyone builds sounds from nothing, do you examples I can look at or
> suggestions? 
>


Another thing that you will find in the examples is filtered noise. Take the example patch that uses poly~ to create 16 band pass filters with harmonically related center frequencies coming and going with random onset times and durations, and play with it. Try using pink instead of white noise, different randomnization schemes, different numbers of simultaneous voices, inharmonic relationships (randomized is fun), different timing setups, etc. Try convoloving the output of it with a different source.

Another thing that you will find in the examples is filtered noise.  Take the example patch that uses poly~ to create 16 band pass filters with harmonically related center frequencies coming and going with random onset times and durations, and play with it.  Try using pink instead of white noise, different randomnization schemes, different numbers of simultaneous voices, inharmonic relationships (randomized is fun), different timing setups, etc.  Try convoloving the output of it with a different source.

Quote: cq wrote on Fri, 02 February 2007 06:44

----------------------------------------------------

> I have been using Max for a 2 months and know the basics of passing numbers around. I have used Max with a hacked games controller which brings in sensor data. 

> I get the impression most people use MaxMSP to manipulate existing sounds. If anyone builds sounds from nothing, do you examples I can look at or suggestions? 

Check out .../MaxMSP 4.6/examples/very-special-guest/ I consider this to be a very interesting piece, made with minimal synthesis resources.

There's a lot of great stuff from the '50s -- sogennant "Elektronishe Musik" -- that I think is really inspirational in terms of making a lot of music out of (what seems now to be) a little technology.

So as to avoid poking around in the dark, look at Dodge and Jerse's text book, Computer Music: Synthesis, Composition, and Performance.

http://www.amazon.com/Computer-Music-Synthesis-Composition-Performance/dp/0028646827/sr=8-1/qid=1170442353/ref=sr_1_1/104-6737315-9040739?ie=UTF8&s=books

There are other synths in the Max examples and tutorials folders that are very strong, too. I can't tell you how many times I've seen well known artist on stage with something that was basically a mildly modded patch from one of these places.

Oh yeah, for a different style, Autechre has some very nice synth based stuff that they did in MaxMSP. There are (or were) some patches on the web, and there have been plentiful discussions on these forums about the same.

Quote: cq wrote on Fri, 02 February 2007 06:44
----------------------------------------------------
> Hello
> I have been using Max for a 2 months and know the basics of passing numbers around. I have used Max with a hacked games controller which brings in sensor data. 
>
> I have set myself the task of making a composition out of sounds entirely generated, all from the cycle cosine generators.
>
> My problem is I want to make interesting sounds, I find looking for a pleasing sound by changing input values in a trial and error approach is a lengthy process which is akin to trying to tune a broken radio.
>
> Searched the forum and web for synthetic instruments in MaxMSP no luck. Is anyone making music using this approach with any success?
>
> I get the impression most people use MaxMSP to manipulate existing sounds. If anyone builds sounds from nothing, do you examples I can look at or suggestions? 
>
----------------------------------------------------

Check out .../MaxMSP 4.6/examples/very-special-guest/  I consider this to be a very interesting piece, made with minimal synthesis resources.

There are other synths in the Max examples and tutorials folders that are very strong, too.  I can't tell you how many times I've seen well known artist on stage with something that was basically a mildly modded patch from one of these places.

Oh yeah, for a different style, Autechre has some very nice synth based stuff that they did in MaxMSP.  There are (or were) some patches on the web, and there have been plentiful discussions on these forums about the same.

Today I thought of something that might be worth looking into. To

reduce the data that comes out of SDIF maybe you can use line but this

time connect the output of SDIF-tupels to the object "Lbondo" which is

http://www.maxobjects.com/?v=libraries&id_library=29&requested=lobjects&operateur=AND&id_plateforme=0).

This object is like "change" but for lists. This means that the

complete list of the partials is only outputted when the data changes

(i.e. only when there is a new frame). Used with "timer" you can also

approximate the time tags (if you send a bang to timer every time the

That way you don't need to worry about the exact time tags. Do you

think this would work? I'd be interested to hear what you think.

> you can build any sound out of sine waves, check out the CNMAT spectral

> synthesis tutorial for some basics... the free app SPEAR is a good tool for

> getting a feel for how to build sounds out of sine waves, because it

> deconstructs any sound that you feed it into a set of sine waves, which you

> can then experiment with to learn how each contributes to the overall sound.

> With control over the frequency and amplitude as a function of time of

> enough sine waves, you can make any sound

> I'm in the process of building a synth in max that will allow more easy

> manipulation of the sine wave information produced by SPEAR than is allowed

> in SPEAR in certain ways, and which will therefore hopefully help the user

> get a better understanding of how each sine wave in a sound contributes to

> the overall sound. I just need to find out a way to get SDIF time tags out

> of the SDIF file and into max as a set of numbers... if anyone knows how to

> do this, please tell me, i'm totally stumped on this and it's the one

> roadblock in the way of my completing this

> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:44 AM

> Subject: [maxmsp] Interesting Sounds From MSP?

> > I have been using Max for a 2 months and know the basics of passing

> > numbers around. I have used Max with a hacked games controller which

> > I have set myself the task of making a composition out of sounds entirely

> > generated, all from the cycle cosine generators.

> > My problem is I want to make interesting sounds, I find looking for a

> > pleasing sound by changing input values in a trial and error approach is a

> > lengthy process which is akin to trying to tune a broken radio.

> > Searched the forum and web for synthetic instruments in MaxMSP no luck. Is

> > anyone making music using this approach with any success?

> > I get the impression most people use MaxMSP to manipulate existing sounds.

> > If anyone builds sounds from nothing, do you examples I can look at or

Today I thought of something that might be worth looking into. To
reduce the data that comes out of SDIF maybe you can use line but this
time connect the output of SDIF-tupels to the object "Lbondo" which is
part of the external libray Lobjects
(http://www.maxobjects.com/?v=libraries&id_library=29&requested=lobjects&operateur=AND&id_plateforme=0).
This object is like "change" but for lists. This means that the
complete list of the partials is only outputted when the data changes
(i.e. only when there is a new frame). Used with "timer" you can also
approximate the time tags (if you send a bang to timer every time the
list changes).

That way you don't need to worry about the exact time tags. Do you
think this would work? I'd be interested to hear what you think.

On 02/02/07, Erik Bowen  wrote:
> you can build any sound out of sine waves, check out the CNMAT spectral
> synthesis tutorial for some basics... the free app SPEAR is a good tool for
> getting a feel for how to build sounds out of sine waves, because it
> deconstructs any sound that you feed it into a set of sine waves, which you
> can then experiment with to learn how each contributes to the overall sound.
>
> With control over the frequency and amplitude as a function of time of
> enough sine waves, you can make any sound
>
> I'm in the process of building a synth in max that will allow more easy
> manipulation of the sine wave information produced by SPEAR than is allowed
> in SPEAR in certain ways, and which will therefore hopefully help the user
> get a better understanding of how each sine wave in a sound contributes to
> the overall sound.  I just need to find out a way to get SDIF time tags out
> of the SDIF file and into max as a set of numbers... if anyone knows how to
> do this, please tell me, i'm totally stumped on this and it's the one
> roadblock in the way of my completing this
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "cq" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:44 AM
> Subject: [maxmsp] Interesting Sounds From MSP?
>
>
> >
> > Hello
> > I have been using Max for a 2 months and know the basics of passing
> > numbers around. I have used Max with a hacked games controller which
> > brings in sensor data.
> >
> > I have set myself the task of making a composition out of sounds entirely
> > generated, all from the cycle cosine generators.
> >
> > My problem is I want to make interesting sounds, I find looking for a
> > pleasing sound by changing input values in a trial and error approach is a
> > lengthy process which is akin to trying to tune a broken radio.
> >
> > Searched the forum and web for synthetic instruments in MaxMSP no luck. Is
> > anyone making music using this approach with any success?
> >
> > I get the impression most people use MaxMSP to manipulate existing sounds.
> > If anyone builds sounds from nothing, do you examples I can look at or
> > suggestions?
> >
>
>


This seems like it could possibly work, but i'm running win xp on a pc, and 

it looks like Lbondo doesn't come with the pc version of Lobjects... dang

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:18 AM

Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Interesting Sounds From MSP?

> Today I thought of something that might be worth looking into. To

> reduce the data that comes out of SDIF maybe you can use line but this

> time connect the output of SDIF-tupels to the object "Lbondo" which is

> This object is like "change" but for lists. This means that the

> complete list of the partials is only outputted when the data changes

> (i.e. only when there is a new frame). Used with "timer" you can also

> approximate the time tags (if you send a bang to timer every time the

> That way you don't need to worry about the exact time tags. Do you

> think this would work? I'd be interested to hear what you think.

>> you can build any sound out of sine waves, check out the CNMAT spectral

>> synthesis tutorial for some basics... the free app SPEAR is a good tool 

>> getting a feel for how to build sounds out of sine waves, because it

>> deconstructs any sound that you feed it into a set of sine waves, which 

>> can then experiment with to learn how each contributes to the overall 

>> With control over the frequency and amplitude as a function of time of

>> enough sine waves, you can make any sound

>> I'm in the process of building a synth in max that will allow more easy

>> manipulation of the sine wave information produced by SPEAR than is 

>> in SPEAR in certain ways, and which will therefore hopefully help the 

>> get a better understanding of how each sine wave in a sound contributes 

>> the overall sound. I just need to find out a way to get SDIF time tags 

>> of the SDIF file and into max as a set of numbers... if anyone knows how 

>> do this, please tell me, i'm totally stumped on this and it's the one

>> roadblock in the way of my completing this

>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:44 AM

This seems like it could possibly work, but i'm running win xp on a pc, and 
it looks like Lbondo doesn't come with the pc version of Lobjects... dang

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "peiman khosravi" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:18 AM
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Interesting Sounds From MSP?

> Hi there,
>
> Today I thought of something that might be worth looking into. To
> reduce the data that comes out of SDIF maybe you can use line but this
> time connect the output of SDIF-tupels to the object "Lbondo" which is
> part of the external libray Lobjects
> (http://www.maxobjects.com/?v=libraries&id_library=29&requested=lobjects&operateur=AND&id_plateforme=0).
> This object is like "change" but for lists. This means that the
> complete list of the partials is only outputted when the data changes
> (i.e. only when there is a new frame). Used with "timer" you can also
> approximate the time tags (if you send a bang to timer every time the
> list changes).
>
> That way you don't need to worry about the exact time tags. Do you
> think this would work? I'd be interested to hear what you think.
>
> Best
> Peiman
>
> On 02/02/07, Erik Bowen  wrote:
>> you can build any sound out of sine waves, check out the CNMAT spectral
>> synthesis tutorial for some basics... the free app SPEAR is a good tool 
>> for
>> getting a feel for how to build sounds out of sine waves, because it
>> deconstructs any sound that you feed it into a set of sine waves, which 
>> you
>> can then experiment with to learn how each contributes to the overall 
>> sound.
>>
>> With control over the frequency and amplitude as a function of time of
>> enough sine waves, you can make any sound
>>
>> I'm in the process of building a synth in max that will allow more easy
>> manipulation of the sine wave information produced by SPEAR than is 
>> allowed
>> in SPEAR in certain ways, and which will therefore hopefully help the 
>> user
>> get a better understanding of how each sine wave in a sound contributes 
>> to
>> the overall sound.  I just need to find out a way to get SDIF time tags 
>> out
>> of the SDIF file and into max as a set of numbers... if anyone knows how 
>> to
>> do this, please tell me, i'm totally stumped on this and it's the one
>> roadblock in the way of my completing this
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "cq" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 8:44 AM
>> Subject: [maxmsp] Interesting Sounds From MSP?
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Hello
>> > I have been using Max for a 2 months and know the basics of passing
>> > numbers around. I have used Max with a hacked games controller which
>> > brings in sensor data.
>> >
>> > I have set myself the task of making a composition out of sounds 
>> > entirely
>> > generated, all from the cycle cosine generators.
>> >
>> > My problem is I want to make interesting sounds, I find looking for a
>> > pleasing sound by changing input values in a trial and error approach 
>> > is a
>> > lengthy process which is akin to trying to tune a broken radio.
>> >
>> > Searched the forum and web for synthetic instruments in MaxMSP no luck. 
>> > Is
>> > anyone making music using this approach with any success?
>> >
>> > I get the impression most people use MaxMSP to manipulate existing 
>> > sounds.
>> > If anyone builds sounds from nothing, do you examples I can look at or
>> > suggestions?
>> >
>>
>>


OK, I just checked the windows readme file for lobjects. There is an 

object in window's version called lchange (listed under utilities) 

which seems to be the same thing basically :-)

On 3 Feb 2007, at 20:36, Erik Bowen wrote:

> This seems like it could possibly work, but i'm running win xp on a 

> pc, and it looks like Lbondo doesn't come with the pc version of 

> ----- Original Message ----- From: "peiman khosravi" 

> Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2007 9:18 AM

> Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Interesting Sounds From MSP?

>> Today I thought of something that might be worth looking into. To

>> reduce the data that comes out of SDIF maybe you can use line but 

>> time connect the output of SDIF-tupels to the object "Lbondo" 

>> v=libraries&id_library=29&requested=lobjects&operateur=AND&id_platefo 

>> This object is like "change" but for lists. This means that the

>> complete list of the partials is only outputted when the data changes

>> (i.e. only when there is a new frame). Used with "timer" you can also

>> approximate the time tags (if you send a bang to timer every time the

>> That way you don't need to worry about the exact time tags. Do you

>> think this would work? I'd be interested to hear what you think.

>>> you can build any sound out of sine waves, check out the CNMAT 

>>> synthesis tutorial for some basics... the free app SPEAR is a 

>>> getting a feel for how to build sounds out of sine waves, because it

>>> deconstructs any sound that you feed it into a set of sine waves, 

>>> can then experiment with to learn how each contributes to the 