Paul 

After briefly messing around with plogue bidule I'm not convinced its entirely what I want for a long term creative tool, I found the jump from using a traditional DAW system to working in a modular environment quite straight forward (no banging head against table scenario), so on that note I've just downloaded the Max demo, I only wish to create the following objects with a view to expanding down the road, a granulator patch, fm synth and algorithmic sequencer, I'll probably browse online and reverse engineer some found patches, is Max difficult to learn for a first timer?, my main concern is the price different between the softwares $399 and $99

is-max-for-me

Some types of algorithmic sequencer are relatively easy - it is worth looking at 

It is simple to make FM voices in MSP but to make a full Yamaha style FM synth is awkward. There is an Gen example with feedback - 

A simple/noisy granular patch can be patched up easily enough but to get it right takes a bit of skill. There is a great granulator patch from nobuyasu sakonda - 

https://cycling74.com/forums/new-granular-synth-patch-sugarsynth

Max is complex and deep so to learn it all is quite difficult but it can be quick to get up and running.

Some types of algorithmic sequencer are relatively easy - it is worth looking at http://algorithmiccomposer.com/

It is simple to make FM voices in MSP but to make a full Yamaha style FM synth is awkward. There is an Gen example with feedback - https://cycling74.com/forums/fm-in-gen.

A simple/noisy granular patch can be patched up easily enough but to get it right takes a bit of skill. There is a great granulator patch from nobuyasu sakonda - https://cycling74.com/forums/new-granular-synth-patch-sugarsynth

Max is complex and deep so to learn it all is quite difficult but it can be quick to get up and running.


In addition to what Grizzle said, I'd also add that Max can grow to accommodate your creative requirements in ways that most tools can't, though it does require work. With any of those projects, you can add interesting interactive/reactive controls that make things pop, and this is one thing (amongst others) that really distinguishes Max from its competitors. (for example, modifying a granulator patch so that it grabs a new sample whenever the drummer hits the hi tom...)

It's a fantastic tool for people who like to experiment, and I've always found it worth the price.

In addition to what Grizzle said, I'd also add that Max can grow to accommodate your creative requirements in ways that most tools can't, though it does require work.  With any of those projects, you can add interesting interactive/reactive controls that make things pop, and this is one thing (amongst others) that really distinguishes Max from its competitors.  (for example, modifying a  granulator patch so that it grabs a new sample whenever the drummer hits the hi tom...)

It's a fantastic tool for people who like to experiment, and I've always found it worth the price.


bidule is a very nice program, but in my opinion it totally lacks options for

free programmable modulation and control, it is all bound to 7 bit midi and

limited to linear move, linear morph, and random.

in max/msp, which some of us would call a "programming language" there

no such limitations for controlling parameters and also not when building

bidule is a very nice program, but in my opinion it totally lacks options for
free programmable modulation and control, it is all bound to 7 bit midi and
limited to linear move, linear morph, and random.

in max/msp, which some of us would call a "programming language" there
no such limitations for controlling parameters and also not when building
sequencers.

Max MSP is wonderful ! Yay ! i'd say quite ideal for the three things you mention. Though it's a lot of work, and in radically different directions.

thanks for the feedback everyone, I've got three very specific audio challenges in mind so this will help me concentrate on learning specific elements in Max/MSP to get the results, "trial & error is the key", I'm not to worried creating complex patches, just something that 'works for me' and from what I've noticed online Max/MSP fits in well.

is Max for Me?