Is there are specific way of ordering certain FX?

Feb 14, 2008 at 2:15pm

Is there are specific way of ordering certain FX?

If I were to play the contents of a buffer through various effects (in series), is there a certain that they should be in, or can I process the sound in any order I like?

FX I’m using:

Comb
Echo
Ring Modulator
Distortion
Pitch Shifter
Phaser
Flanger
Tremolo

Also, would anyone be kind enough to share any other interesting FX that can be applied to sounds within Max?

Many thanks,

Rhys

#35816
Feb 14, 2008 at 2:19pm

On 14 Feb 2008, at 14:15, Rhys Perkins wrote:

> If I were to play the contents of a buffer through various effects
> (in series), is there a certain that they should be in, or can I
> process the sound in any order I like?

They should be in the order which sounds best. The rest is up to you.

– N.

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
http://www.cassiel.com
http://www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
http://www.last.fm/music/cassiel
http://www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
http://www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
http://www.loadbang.net

#122562
Feb 15, 2008 at 8:07am

Quote: nick rothwell / cassiel wrote on Thu, 14 February 2008 06:19
—————————————————-
> On 14 Feb 2008, at 14:15, Rhys Perkins wrote:
>
> > is there a certain that they should be in, or can I
> > process the sound in any order I like?
>
> They should be in the order which sounds best. The rest is up to you.
>

Yup. The great thing about effects is they can be endlessly reordered and combined in different ways. Often, switching the order will give a completely different sound.

Rhys, don’t overlook the possibility of using the same effect multiple times in a series. For example, using multiple tremolos at different frequencies. Multiple delays are lots of fun too (if a bit unwieldy).

Some other types of effects you might want to look into:
granulation
spatialization
reverb

Look on maxobjects.com for lots of effects objects.

#122563
Feb 15, 2008 at 2:07pm

Try using matrix~/matrixctrl to make a ‘patch-bay’, so that you can order
your FX modules in any order you want – including feeding back into
themselves, if you dare. For greater flexibility, use matrixctrl in dial
mode (you’ll have to dig deep to find info on this – it’s either not in the
manual or the .help file, can’t remember which).
Note that you’ll have to create at least one signal vector’s worth of delay
between the inputs & outputs to avoid blowing up the dac~ with feedback. The
best way to do this is simply to use send~/receive~ instead of patchchords,
or a tapin/out.
It’s also not a bad idea to use some limiting in the feedback paths – limi~
is a pretty good no-brainer for this.
And for extra wackiness, try making the feedback path of a delay module
available on your patch-bay, so you can insert other FX into it – guaranteed
to blow something up, but you’ll make some fine noises on the way!
Here’s an example hastily clipped from a patch which uses 3 vst~s and a
very simple delay. The graphic for the matrixctrl is at
http://www.wildfrontear.co.uk/DialSml.pct , though it would be better to use
something with higher resolution, so you can tweak the feedback controls
with greater precision,
Cheers
Roger

#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 119 371 100 196617 tweak with care!;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 12.;
#P comment 134 357 16 196620 ^;
#N vpreset 1;
#X append 1 2 22 223 97 matrixctrl list 0 0 3 0 1 0 0 2 0 0 3 4 0 4 0 1 0 0
1 1 0 1 2 0 1 3 0 1 4 2 2 0 0 2 1;
#X append 1 2 0 2 2 0 2 3 0 2 4 0 3 0 0 3 1 0 3 2 0 3 3 0 3 4 0 4 0 0 4 1 0
4 2 0 4 3 0 4 4 0;
#X append 1 2 5 0 2 5 1 0 5 2 0 5 3 0 5 4 0 ; 54 345 484 flonum float 970.
; 55 364 484 flonum float 779. ; 67 180 88 toggle int 0 ;;
#P preset 336 149 47 27;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P hidden message 81 141 14 196617 0;
#P hidden newex 310 92 27 196617 – 1;
#P hidden newex 232 22 27 196617 t b i;
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#P hidden newex 232 67 45 196617 gate 2 1;
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#P hidden message 190 91 40 196617 disable;
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#P hidden newex 232 122 55 196617 pack s 1 2;
#P hidden comment 365 318 24 196617 in R;
#P hidden newex 189 402 81 196617 receive~ testsL;
#P hidden newex 54 400 81 196617 receive~ testsL;
#P user ezdac~ 293 637 337 670 0;
#P comment 434 364 42 196617 delay R;
#P flonum 484 364 94 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P flonum 484 345 94 9 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 221 221 221 222 222 222 0 0 0;
#P window linecount 2;
#P comment 60 329 34 196617 delay f/b;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 59 308 34 196617 delay;
#P window linecount 2;
#P comment 253 196 34 196617 delay f/b;
#P window linecount 1;
#P hidden newex 486 498 65 196617 tapout~ 100;
#P hidden newex 486 467 65 196617 tapin~ 1000;
#P hidden newex 507 538 33 196617 limi~;
#P hidden newex 558 498 65 196617 tapout~ 100;
#P hidden newex 558 467 65 196617 tapin~ 1000;
#N vpatcher 10 59 610 459;
#P outlet 257 260 15 0;
#P inlet 260 140 15 0;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 258 201 44 196617 tapout~;
#P newex 258 169 38 196617 tapin~;
#P window linecount 0;
#P newex 186 232 33 196617 limi~;
#P outlet 138 255 15 0;
#P inlet 141 135 15 0;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 139 196 44 196617 tapout~;
#P window linecount 0;
#P newex 139 164 38 196617 tapin~;
#P connect 4 0 3 0;
#P connect 2 0 0 0;
#P connect 0 0 1 0;
#P connect 1 0 4 0;
#P connect 6 0 4 1;
#P connect 4 1 8 0;
#P connect 7 0 5 0;
#P connect 5 0 6 0;
#P pop;
#P hidden newobj 216 543 43 196617 p break;
#N vpatcher 10 59 610 459;
#P outlet 257 260 15 0;
#P inlet 260 140 15 0;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 258 201 44 196617 tapout~;
#P newex 258 169 38 196617 tapin~;
#P window linecount 0;
#P newex 186 232 33 196617 limi~;
#P outlet 138 255 15 0;
#P inlet 141 135 15 0;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 139 196 44 196617 tapout~;
#P window linecount 0;
#P newex 139 164 38 196617 tapin~;
#P connect 4 0 3 0;
#P connect 2 0 0 0;
#P connect 0 0 1 0;
#P connect 1 0 4 0;
#P connect 6 0 4 1;
#P connect 4 1 8 0;
#P connect 7 0 5 0;
#P connect 5 0 6 0;
#P pop;
#P hidden newobj 125 543 43 196617 p break;
#N vpatcher 10 59 610 459;
#P outlet 257 260 15 0;
#P inlet 260 140 15 0;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 258 201 44 196617 tapout~;
#P newex 258 169 38 196617 tapin~;
#P window linecount 0;
#P newex 186 232 33 196617 limi~;
#P outlet 138 255 15 0;
#P inlet 141 135 15 0;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 139 196 44 196617 tapout~;
#P window linecount 0;
#P newex 139 164 38 196617 tapin~;
#P connect 4 0 3 0;
#P connect 2 0 0 0;
#P connect 0 0 1 0;
#P connect 1 0 4 0;
#P connect 6 0 4 1;
#P connect 4 1 8 0;
#P connect 7 0 5 0;
#P connect 5 0 6 0;
#P pop;
#P hidden newobj 35 538 43 196617 p break;
#P hidden message 97 112 71 196617 dialtracking 3;
#P hidden message 31 113 55 196617 dialmode 1;
#N vst~ loaduniqueid 0;
#P hidden newobj 219 515 79 196617 vst~;
#N vst~ loaduniqueid 0;
#P hidden newobj 127 515 79 196617 vst~;
#P hidden newex 97 73 45 196617 loadbang;
#P hidden inlet 364 334 15 0;
#P hidden inlet 342 334 15 0;
#P hidden newex 186 433 79 196617 matrix~ 6 5 1.;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 10.;
#P comment 159 194 26 196618 VST;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P comment 17 277 13 196617 3;
#P comment 17 253 13 196617 2;
#P comment 17 230 13 196617 1;
#P comment 198 210 13 196617 3;
#P comment 166 209 13 196617 2;
#P button 66 277 15 5;
#P button 43 277 15 6;
#P button 66 253 15 5;
#P button 43 253 15 6;
#P hidden message 83 376 28 196617 open;
#P hidden message 87 359 26 196617 plug;
#P user matrixctrl 97 223 186 131 DialSml.pct MatrixDefaultBkgnd.pct 186 131
26 26 6 5 31 26 0 0 1328 13 768 0;
#P hidden message 34 376 28 196617 open;
#P hidden message 33 359 26 196617 plug;
#P hidden newex 53 431 79 196617 matrix~ 6 5 1.;
#N vst~ loaduniqueid 0;
#P hidden newobj 36 515 79 196617 vst~;
#P comment 64 211 26 196617 edit;
#P button 66 229 15 5;
#P button 43 229 15 6;
#P comment 38 211 25 196617 load;
#P hidden message 57 376 28 196617 open;
#P hidden message 61 359 26 196617 plug;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 10.;
#P comment 13 211 23 196618 VST;
#P comment 96 209 31 196618 Input;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P comment 134 208 13 196617 1;
#P comment 217 208 34 196617 delay;
#P comment 434 346 42 196617 delay L;
#P hidden comment 335 317 24 196617 in L;
#P comment 4 181 79 196617 direct feedback;
#P comment 319 225 100 196617 tweak with care!;
#P comment 291 226 100 196617 < ---;
#P window linecount 3;
#P comment 334 180 100 196617 try loading a resonant filter or reverb into
slot 1;
#P comment 41 35 100 196617 don’t forget to dbl click the loadbang if you
paste from list;
#P hidden connect 37 0 40 0;
#P hidden connect 14 0 19 0;
#P hidden connect 15 0 20 0;
#P hidden connect 17 0 42 0;
#P hidden connect 18 0 17 0;
#P hidden connect 19 0 17 0;
#P hidden connect 20 0 17 0;
#P hidden connect 57 0 18 0;
#P hidden fasten 21 0 18 0 102 391 58 391;
#P hidden fasten 35 0 18 0 347 397 58 397;
#P hidden connect 25 0 12 0;
#P hidden connect 24 0 11 0;
#P hidden connect 42 0 18 1;
#P hidden connect 17 1 42 1;
#P hidden connect 43 0 18 2;
#P hidden connect 37 0 69 0;
#P hidden connect 27 0 23 0;
#P hidden connect 26 0 22 0;
#P hidden connect 69 0 66 0;
#P hidden connect 44 0 18 3;
#P hidden connect 37 0 41 0;
#P hidden fasten 60 0 21 0 237 148 102 148;
#P hidden connect 41 0 21 0;
#P hidden connect 40 0 21 0;
#P hidden fasten 49 0 18 4 491 523 458 523 458 413 110 413;
#P hidden connect 34 0 17 1;
#P hidden fasten 47 0 18 5 512 560 344 560 344 424 123 424;
#P hidden fasten 38 0 43 0 129 535;
#P hidden connect 18 1 38 0;
#P hidden connect 12 0 38 0;
#P hidden connect 11 0 38 0;
#P hidden connect 38 1 43 1;
#P hidden connect 58 0 34 0;
#P hidden fasten 21 0 34 0 102 387 191 387;
#P hidden fasten 36 0 34 0 369 393 191 393;
#P hidden connect 64 0 62 0;
#P hidden connect 34 1 38 1;
#P hidden connect 42 1 34 1;
#P hidden connect 43 1 34 2;
#P hidden connect 39 0 44 0;
#P hidden connect 18 2 39 0;
#P hidden connect 23 0 39 0;
#P hidden connect 22 0 39 0;
#P hidden connect 44 1 34 3;
#P hidden connect 66 0 67 0;
#P hidden connect 67 1 65 0;
#P hidden connect 65 0 64 0;
#P hidden connect 64 1 63 0;
#P hidden connect 62 0 60 0;
#P hidden connect 63 0 60 0;
#P hidden fasten 46 0 34 4 563 524 476 524 476 412 243 412;
#P hidden connect 39 1 44 1;
#P hidden fasten 47 1 34 5 535 564 348 564 348 427 256 427;
#P hidden connect 61 2 60 1;
#P hidden connect 61 0 64 1;
#P hidden connect 68 0 60 2;
#P hidden connect 67 0 61 0;
#P hidden connect 34 2 39 1;
#P hidden connect 39 0 56 0;
#P hidden connect 38 0 56 0;
#P hidden connect 17 0 56 0;
#P hidden connect 49 0 56 0;
#P hidden connect 61 2 68 0;
#P hidden connect 17 1 56 1;
#P hidden connect 38 1 56 1;
#P hidden connect 39 1 56 1;
#P hidden connect 46 0 56 1;
#P hidden fasten 18 4 48 0 110 459 491 459;
#P hidden fasten 18 3 48 0 97 459 491 459;
#P hidden fasten 53 0 49 0 489 428 491 428;
#P hidden connect 48 0 49 0;
#P hidden connect 49 0 47 0;
#P hidden connect 46 0 47 1;
#P hidden fasten 34 4 45 0 243 456 563 456;
#P hidden fasten 34 3 45 0 230 455 563 455;
#P hidden fasten 54 0 46 0 489 428 563 428;
#P hidden connect 45 0 46 0;
#P window clipboard copycount 73;

#122564
Feb 27, 2008 at 12:52pm

Hi !

Interesting effects and order depend also on what kind of sound your feeding with…
Most of the classical effects you mentionned will be great for sounds like guitare or bass as they were basically invented for it. But it may not sound great with all kind of sound material.

I’am trying to “invent” or adapt some real time effects on the Cello and those classical effects are sometimes hard to make sound !

If you like some other effects you can have a look to DAFx book/papers/conference. They present a lot of interesting thing in there !

As for the path between those effects… I’m trying with matrix~ too but it’s probably not the better way to do some permanent configurations.

‘hope this helps

Cheers

BenCello

#122565

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