cegerlt

I wonder, are they coming out with something new?

Or just feelin the hurt, like everyone else?

Whoa!
Sooooo tempting.
I wonder, are they coming out with something new?
Or just feelin the hurt, like everyone else?
Thanks!


lemur-sale-2

I think they're just celebrating Lemur v2... that update is insane.

> I wonder, are they coming out with something new?

> Or just feelin the hurt, like everyone else?

cegerlt@comcast.net skrev:
> Whoa!
> Sooooo tempting.
> I wonder, are they coming out with something new?
> Or just feelin the hurt, like everyone else?
> Thanks!
>
> .
>
>


I'd love one for sure !! but why only US customers ??

Quote: ongo73 wrote on Fri, 30 January 2009 14:59

----------------------------------------------------

> I'd love one for sure !! but why only US customers ?? 

Cycling '74 is only selling to US customers, if that's what you mean, but Jazzmutant are selling them directly from their site at the reduced price.

Quote: ongo73 wrote on Fri, 30 January 2009 14:59
----------------------------------------------------
> I'd love one for sure !! but why only US customers ?? 
----------------------------------------------------

Cycling '74 is only selling to US customers, if that's what you mean, but Jazzmutant are selling them directly from their site at the reduced price.


It's a bit like saying "max is insanely expensive for just a 

I must admit, I felt *Really* anxious when selling... a LOT of stuff 

from my studio to get my hands on a Lemur - at the "normal" price, mind 

you. But as with many boutique purchases you find a way of justifying 

the price, eventually. I did this by using the Lemur as the hub of my 

Replaced (and improved) a Doepfer Schaltwerk. Check. and then some.

Replaced (and improved) 4 midi controllers for my live-set. Check.

Replaced (and improved) all the fake mackie-control stuff I had worked 

Replaced my lust after some kind of video mixer. More than Check.

With v2 it got even crazier, and we're currently building mad stuff to 

go with the MaxForLive release. No regrets from here, hehe.

Andrew Koenig skrev:
> Insanely cheap or insanely expensive?
>
Both ;-)

It's a bit like saying "max is insanely expensive for just a 
step-sequencer, hehe.

I must admit, I felt *Really* anxious when selling... a LOT of stuff 
from my studio to get my hands on a Lemur - at the "normal" price, mind 
you. But as with many boutique purchases you find a way of justifying 
the price, eventually. I did this by using the Lemur as the hub of my 
studio:

Replaced (and improved) a Doepfer Schaltwerk. Check. and then some.
Replaced (and improved) 4 midi controllers for my live-set. Check.
Replaced (and improved) all the fake mackie-control stuff I had worked 
on previously. Check.
Replaced my lust after a Monome. Check.
Replaced my lust after some kind of video mixer. More than Check.

With v2 it got even crazier, and we're currently building mad stuff to 
go with the MaxForLive release. No regrets from here, hehe.

Quote: cebec wrote on Fri, 30 January 2009 17:57

Glad that's SOOO cheap for some people... ;)

Quote: cebec wrote on Fri, 30 January 2009 17:57
----------------------------------------------------
> that's an insane sale price, too!
----------------------------------------------------

Glad that's SOOO cheap for some people... ;)


Oh dear -- will it be straightforward to integrate Lemur with Max for Live?

My problem is that I have just started learning Max, and can appreciate the potential of something like Lemur in theory -- but $1750 is a lot of money in practice...

> Oh dear -- will it be straightforward to integrate Lemur with Max for Live?

lovely floating point goodness. I'd say that's as straightforward as can 

> My problem is that I have just started learning Max, and can appreciate the potential of something like Lemur in theory -- but $1750 is a lot of money in practice...

I hear ya. While learning it's nice to have the Lemur work as a 

bog-standard midi controller as well though.

Andrew Koenig skrev:
> Oh dear -- will it be straightforward to integrate Lemur with Max for Live?
>
udpreceive 8000
|
route /Multiball/x /Multiball/y
|
lovely floating point goodness. I'd say that's as straightforward as can 
get, and it'll work in M4L as well.
> My problem is that I have just started learning Max, and can appreciate the potential of something like Lemur in theory -- but $1750 is a lot of money in practice...
I hear ya. While learning it's nice to have the Lemur work as a 
bog-standard midi controller as well though.

wont the lemur be redundant in about 2 years when touch screens are everywhere? doesnt seem like a good investment to me...

> wont the lemur be redundant in about 2 years when touch screens are everywhere? doesnt seem like a good investment to me..

First of all, people have been saying that for years. Years, man. The 

iphone came out and everyone hollered that the Lemur was obsolete, when 

that obviously wasn't the case, etc.etc. In the meantime *some of us* 

simply keep getting good use from our investments.

Secondly, even *when* multi-point touch screens become available at a 

similar price you'll still have to deal with the GUI design. When that 

happens the Lemur users will have an even more mature system.

To me it's a bit like comparing PD to MaxMSP. Yes, there are a LOT of 

similarities, but they're in different leagues, if you ask me.

James Little skrev:
> wont the lemur be redundant in about 2 years when touch screens are everywhere? doesnt seem like a good investment to me..
First of all, people have been saying that for years. Years, man. The 
iphone came out and everyone hollered that the Lemur was obsolete, when 
that obviously wasn't the case, etc.etc. In the meantime *some of us* 
simply keep getting good use from our investments.
Secondly, even *when* multi-point touch screens become available at a 
similar price you'll still have to deal with the GUI design. When that 
happens the Lemur users will have an even more mature system.
To me it's a bit like comparing PD to MaxMSP. Yes, there are a LOT of 
similarities, but they're in different leagues, if you ask me.

Now that I'm jumping on the Lemur bandwagon I have noticed that there is definitely a "love it or hate it" air about the whole thing. It seems that the price really gets under people's skin. It's an investment to be sure, but really it's a drop in the bucket compared to some string and wind instruments.

Quote: stringtapper wrote on Sun, 01 February 2009 19:40

> Now that I'm jumping on the Lemur bandwagon I have noticed that there is definitely a "love it or hate it" air about the whole thing. It seems that the price really gets under people's skin. It's an investment to be sure, but really it's a drop in the bucket compared to some string and wind instruments.

Hey, I'm all for capitalism. But, I've seen homemade multi-point touchscreen controllers that perform on par with the Lemur--which I've also seen. There is not, I repeat, NOT $1,800 worth of technology housed in a Lemur. These three Frenchmen behind Jazzmutant are absolutely fleecing people. Nevertheless, if they can pull off getting people to buy it, more power to them!

And, I know of the ridiculous amounts of money professional string players can pour into instruments. To compare apples to apples, though, you need to compare a string player's collection of instruments to an electroacoustic composer's studio. The playing field does tend to level a bit...

Quote: stringtapper wrote on Sun, 01 February 2009 19:40
----------------------------------------------------
> Now that I'm jumping on the Lemur bandwagon I have noticed that there is definitely a "love it or hate it" air about the whole thing. It seems that the price really gets under people's skin. It's an investment to be sure, but really it's a drop in the bucket compared to some string and wind instruments.

Hey, I'm all for capitalism.  But, I've seen homemade multi-point touchscreen controllers that perform on par with the Lemur--which I've also seen.  There is not, I repeat, NOT $1,800 worth of technology housed in a Lemur.  These three Frenchmen behind Jazzmutant are absolutely fleecing people.  Nevertheless, if they can pull off getting people to buy it, more power to them!

And, I know of the ridiculous amounts of money professional string players can pour into instruments.  To compare apples to apples, though, you need to compare a string player's collection of instruments to an electroacoustic composer's studio.  The playing field does tend to level a bit...


Quote: Brennon Bortz wrote on Sun, 01 February 2009 16:21

>...you need to compare a string player's collection of instruments to an electroacoustic composer's studio. The playing field does tend to level a bit...

True. And it gets worse when the two are one person...

Quote: Brennon Bortz wrote on Sun, 01 February 2009 16:21
----------------------------------------------------
>...you need to compare a string player's collection of instruments to an electroacoustic composer's studio.  The playing field does tend to level a bit...
----------------------------------------------------

True. And it gets worse when the two are one person...


As with all new 'technology' though Lemur had been around for a while ,it is bound to be abused with exessive price tags.

A simple monome 128 is/was 1000$ + which I think was a pretty much pushing the price tag for just a box with buttons on it.

I am surprised no other companies followed in the lemur's foot step'sand exploiting the touch-screen controller , though this technology will be all over the consumer market within the year (if not already !)

Jazzmutant is for sure on my wantlist !! maybe not a priority , but definitly up there , !

I am surprised  no other companies followed in the lemur's foot step'sand exploiting the touch-screen controller , though this technology will be all over the consumer market within the year (if not already !)

Jazzmutant is for sure on my wantlist !! maybe not a priority , but definitly up there , !


> Hey, I'm all for capitalism. But, I've seen homemade multi-point touchscreen controllers that perform on par with the Lemur--which I've also seen. There is not, I repeat, NOT $1,800 worth of technology housed in a Lemur. These three Frenchmen behind Jazzmutant are absolutely fleecing people.

on what basis do you make that claim? it's an incredibly well designed piece of hardware. it' expensive, but if it's useful to people (and it's already been described how many pieces of gear something with this type of flexibility can replace) then no one's getting fleeced.

> Hey, I'm all for capitalism.  But, I've seen homemade multi-point touchscreen controllers that perform on par with the Lemur--which I've also seen.  There is not, I repeat, NOT $1,800 worth of technology housed in a Lemur.  These three Frenchmen behind Jazzmutant are absolutely fleecing people.  

on what basis do you make that claim?  it's an incredibly well designed piece of hardware.  it' expensive, but if it's useful to people (and it's already been described how many pieces of gear something with this type of flexibility can replace) then no one's getting fleeced.


It's getting cold in here....going to go get my fleece :)

From: maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com [mailto:maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com] On

> Hey, I'm all for capitalism. But, I've seen homemade multi-point

touchscreen controllers that perform on par with the Lemur--which I've also

seen. There is not, I repeat, NOT $1,800 worth of technology housed in a

Lemur. These three Frenchmen behind Jazzmutant are absolutely fleecing

on what basis do you make that claim? it's an incredibly well designed

piece of hardware. it' expensive, but if it's useful to people (and it's

already been described how many pieces of gear something with this type of

flexibility can replace) then no one's getting fleeced.

-----Original Message-----
From: maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com [mailto:maxmsp-bounces@cycling74.com] On
Behalf Of Robert Ramirez
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 11:32 PM
Subject: [maxmsp] Re: Lemur Sale

> Hey, I'm all for capitalism.  But, I've seen homemade multi-point
touchscreen controllers that perform on par with the Lemur--which I've also
seen.  There is not, I repeat, NOT $1,800 worth of technology housed in a
Lemur.  These three Frenchmen behind Jazzmutant are absolutely fleecing
people.  

on what basis do you make that claim?  it's an incredibly well designed
piece of hardware.  it' expensive, but if it's useful to people (and it's
already been described how many pieces of gear something with this type of
flexibility can replace) then no one's getting fleeced.

Quote: robtherich wrote on Mon, 02 February 2009 06:32

> on what basis do you make that claim? it's an incredibly well designed piece of hardware...

> > ...I've seen homemade multi-point touchscreen controllers that perform on par with the Lemur--which I've also seen...

You already quoted that in your own post. When I've seen and held a homemade piece of equipment that performs on par with the Lemur in some areas and outperforms it in others, and I know how much it cost to build, I am confident in saying that the true "cost" of the Lemur does not match its price tag. For some people, its "value" may be $1,800 or even more, though--I haven't argued that, have I?

Quote: robtherich wrote on Mon, 02 February 2009 06:32
----------------------------------------------------
> on what basis do you make that claim?  it's an incredibly well designed piece of hardware...
----------------------------------------------------

You already quoted that in your own post.  When I've seen and held a homemade piece of equipment that performs on par with the Lemur in some areas and outperforms it in others, and I know how much it cost to build, I am confident in saying that the true "cost" of the Lemur does not match its price tag.  For some people, its "value" may be $1,800 or even more, though--I haven't argued that, have I?


On 2 Feb 2009, at 00:44, sebastian wrote:

> As with all new 'technology' though Lemur had been around for a 

> while ,it is bound to be abused with exessive price tags.

Any piece of high-tech gear has to amortize the R&D costs over the 

projected total sales during its lifetime. Sure, there's not going to 

be $2000 worth of hardware and assembly costs in a Lemur, but that's 

> A simple monome 128 is/was 1000$ + which I think was a pretty much 

> pushing the price tag for just a box with buttons on it.

The assembly and finishing process for a monome is pretty resource- 

> I am surprised no other companies followed in the lemur's foot 

> step'sand exploiting the touch-screen controller , though this 

> technology will be all over the consumer market within the year (if 

True enough. Behringer came along to challenge the Motor-Mix at a 

fraction of the price. (I've only used the latter so I don't know how 

> As with all new 'technology' though Lemur had been around for a  
> while ,it is bound to be abused with exessive price tags.

Any piece of high-tech gear has to amortize the R&D costs over the  
projected total sales during its lifetime. Sure, there's not going to  
be $2000 worth of hardware and assembly costs in a Lemur, but that's  
not the total cost of delivery.

> A simple monome 128 is/was 1000$ + which I think was a pretty much  
> pushing the price tag for just a box with buttons on it.

The assembly and finishing process for a monome is pretty resource- 
intensive.

> I am surprised  no other companies followed in the lemur's foot  
> step'sand exploiting the touch-screen controller , though this  
> technology will be all over the consumer market within the year (if  
> not already !)

True enough. Behringer came along to challenge the Motor-Mix at a  
fraction of the price. (I've only used the latter so I don't know how  
good the Behringers are.)

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
www.cassiel.com
www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
www.last.fm/music/cassiel
www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
www.loadbang.net


Quote: Brennon Bortz wrote on Mon, 02 February 2009 06:16

> You already quoted that in your own post. When I've seen and held a homemade piece of equipment that performs on par with the Lemur in some areas and outperforms it in others, and I know how much it cost to build, I am confident in saying that the true "cost" of the Lemur does not match its price tag. For some people, its "value" may be $1,800 or even more, though--I haven't argued that, have I?

yeah, and i guess my laptop doesn't house $3000 worth of technology either. why can't they just sell it to me at cost? apple always be fleecing us.

Quote: Brennon Bortz wrote on Mon, 02 February 2009 06:16
----------------------------------------------------
> You already quoted that in your own post.  When I've seen and held a homemade piece of equipment that performs on par with the Lemur in some areas and outperforms it in others, and I know how much it cost to build, I am confident in saying that the true "cost" of the Lemur does not match its price tag.  For some people, its "value" may be $1,800 or even more, though--I haven't argued that, have I?
----------------------------------------------------

yeah, and i guess my laptop doesn't house $3000 worth of technology either.  why can't they just sell it to me at cost?  apple always be fleecing us.


Quote: robtherich wrote on Mon, 02 February 2009 18:00

> yeah, and i guess my laptop doesn't house $3000 worth of technology either. why can't they just sell it to me at cost? apple always be fleecing us.

For someone who's nick is "robtherich", I really am surprised at your opposition to my posts... :)

But, really?? WHO has ever claimed that Apple ISN'T fleecing us? On the other hand, I've never seen a homemade laptop that could hold it's own up next to my Mac, and costs a seventh of the Mac sticker price...

Quote: robtherich wrote on Mon, 02 February 2009 18:00
----------------------------------------------------
> yeah, and i guess my laptop doesn't house $3000 worth of technology either.  why can't they just sell it to me at cost?  apple always be fleecing us.
----------------------------------------------------

But, really??  WHO has ever claimed that Apple ISN'T fleecing us?  On the other hand, I've never seen a homemade laptop that could hold it's own up next to my Mac, and costs a seventh of the Mac sticker price...


>> You already quoted that in your own post. When I've seen and held 

>> a homemade piece of equipment that performs on par with the Lemur 

>> in some areas and outperforms it in others, and I know how much it 

>> cost to build, I am confident in saying that the true "cost" of the 

>> Lemur does not match its price tag. For some people, its "value" 

>> may be $1,800 or even more, though--I haven't argued that, have I?

Brennon, I'm interested in the DIY multi-touch solution you've 

mentioned, as I've been looking into building a large controller 

surface lately. I really like the Lemur but if I can build something 

with a larger working area and my own custom GUI I'd rather go that 

route. Any links or details you can give on it? I've seen many low- 

cost, single-touch DIY setups, but my searches are coming up empty on 

>> You already quoted that in your own post.  When I've seen and held  
>> a homemade piece of equipment that performs on par with the Lemur  
>> in some areas and outperforms it in others, and I know how much it  
>> cost to build, I am confident in saying that the true "cost" of the  
>> Lemur does not match its price tag.  For some people, its "value"  
>> may be $1,800 or even more, though--I haven't argued that, have I?

Brennon, I'm interested in the DIY multi-touch solution you've  
mentioned, as I've been looking into building a large controller  
surface lately.  I really like the Lemur but if I can build something  
with a larger working area and my own custom GUI I'd rather go that  
route.  Any links or details you can give on it?  I've seen many low- 
cost, single-touch DIY setups, but my searches are coming up empty on  
multi-touch.

Vlad Spears
Tanj!  I'm already out of Known Space!

http://www.daevlmakr.com
http://www.2secondfuse.com

Brennon Bortz
School of Music and Sonic Arts
Queen's University of Belfast
brennon@brennonbortz.com

Quote: Mr. Banshee wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 07:47

> i have only seen people use the Lemur as a sequencer. Although i think the Lemur is really cool, just want to know if there are any example of people using it in an improv setting (that is what my main interest is, improv electronics). 

That's how I use it. I haven't any tracks online, but I'll work on that. The physics are nice... I can fling sounds around, or set something wobbling while I work on something else.

Quote: Mr. Banshee wrote on Wed, 04 February 2009 07:47
----------------------------------------------------
> i have only seen people use the Lemur as a sequencer. Although i think the Lemur is really cool, just want to know if there are any example of people using it in an improv setting (that is what my main interest is, improv electronics).  
> -chuck
>

That's how I use it.  I haven't any tracks online, but I'll work on that. The physics are nice... I can fling sounds around, or set something wobbling while I work on something else.

http://www.myspace.com/michaelzbyszynski


The physics are nice... I can fling sounds around, or set something wobbling while I work on something else.

Second that, I've only had it less than a week - checked out the step seq patches and they are neat, but 

I am really enjoying the physics as well. Set up some rules then let things bounce -it's the 

ultimate improve instrument imho. Definately "jazzy."

The physics are nice... I can fling sounds around, or set something wobbling while I work on something else. 

Second that, I've only had it less than a week - checked out the step seq patches and they are neat, but 
I am really enjoying the physics as well. Set up some rules then let things bounce -it's the 
ultimate improve instrument imho. Definately "jazzy." 

In this youtube video, I'm using the Lemur as a front-end to a Max patch (that controls a robotic percussionist):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv1tijaqKKg

That's how I use it - as a reconfigurable front end for live performance Max patches.

how i really wish there was a friend or studio in NY where i could play w/ a Lemur to see if it is a worthwhile thing to drool over. 

Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2009 3:45:38 PM

how i really wish there was a friend or studio in NY where i could play w/ a Lemur to see if it is a worthwhile thing to drool over.  
-chuck

________________________________
From: Arne Eigenfeldt 
Sent: Wednesday, February 4, 2009 3:45:38 PM
Subject: [maxmsp] Re:  Re: Lemur Sale

The continuum fingerboard is a real beauty !! I have been drooling over this for a while now !!!! Stefan I you'v already given your self 2 reasons why you should buy one !! let me give you 2 more , if I may !

Here is a little Oprha/Doc Phil Philosophy to drink your coffee with !

The  continuum fingerboard is a real beauty !! I have been drooling over this for a while now !!!! Stefan I you'v already given your self 2 reasons why you should buy one !! let me give you 2 more , if I may !

1) You only live once.
2) You deserve it.

Here is a  little Oprha/Doc Phil Philosophy to drink your coffee with !


I might add that I've saved for years to buy a Continuum fingerboard, got it a few months ago (the new version already) and it is worth every cent. It the most expressive instrument I have ever played and it is a brilliant piece of engineering. Can't say too many good things about it! Its somehow cheap considering the amount of quality musical time you get out of it!