Looking for specific sensor

Feb 9, 2007 at 7:22am

Looking for specific sensor

Hi Max fans ;-)

For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass, later for the string quartet if something works), I need a multi-sensor to instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered by this USB port about which string has just been picked.
Like an multiphonic magnetic or piezzo pickup.
Could it be an infra-red based item… ?
From which manufacturer?

All insights welcome, please!

Warmest regards,
Philippe

#30208
Feb 9, 2007 at 9:00am

Roland GK-2a

#96056
Feb 9, 2007 at 9:14am

well i’ve got an old yamaha g50
that does it perfectly.
u can find it at cheaper prices on ebay, nowadays

Il giorno 09/feb/07, alle ore 08:22, Philippe Gruchet ha scritto:

>
> Hi Max fans ;-)
>
> For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass, later
> for the string quartet if something works), I need a multi-sensor
> to instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered by this
> USB port about which string has just been picked.
> Like an multiphonic magnetic or piezzo pickup.
> Could it be an infra-red based item… ?
>> From which manufacturer?
>
> All insights welcome, please!
>
> Warmest regards,
> Philippe
>
>
>

#96057
Feb 9, 2007 at 9:51am

Thanks!
I have all this audio stuff, Axon and co.
What I’m looking for is not an audio hardware, but just a digital 0/1 output from a multi-sensor, one per string, and going to MaxMSP. Then, those integers will be used to gate and route.
(or just like a bang-out from a sensor each time a string is picked.)

Maybe this sensor doesn’t exist and will need a custom design for my purpose… ?
Philippe

#96058
Feb 9, 2007 at 12:28pm

> For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass,
> later for the string quartet if something works), I need a
> multi-sensor to instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and
> powered by this USB port about which string has just been picked.
> Could it be an infra-red based item… ?
> From which manufacturer?

I just remember the infrared sensor of the first Photon MIDI interface for guitar. Could it be based on something like that?

Best,
Philippe

#96059
Feb 9, 2007 at 12:43pm

It seems to me that if you already have pickups or other per-string audio sensors, then that is the easiest thing to do, because beyond that, the cheapest and easiest thing probably is something to detect the vibration of the string like a simple piezo. You could set an amplitude threshold in Max for your gate. I’m sure something could be done with proximity sensors, but you would probably get the most accurate results by simply detecting the string vibration.

I suppose a flex sensor could be attached to each string…?

Tim

#96060
Feb 9, 2007 at 1:30pm

Quote: tim_thompson@mac.com wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 13:43
—————————————————-
> I suppose a flex sensor could be attached to each string…?

Hi Tim,

Yes, that’s a great idea, thanks! Could also work for violin, cello, etc.
Needing an extra piece of hardware to convert the signal into digital data or directly into MIDI data.
(Very closed to a Roland GK pickup but unusable for bowed instruments.)

So, for a six strings instrument, 6 sensors to 1 converter, 1 digital output to MaxMSP via USB.

Something like that could work?
< http://www.measurementcomputing.com/Usb_analog_i-o.html>

Best,
Philippe

#96061
Feb 9, 2007 at 2:26pm

(Banging the Paia drum again, if you’ll forgive the pun):
http://paia.com/proddetail.asp?prod=9201DK
Nice cheap way to convert to Midi, and there’s a useful link to a page on
sensors; all you need then is Midi/USB, though power might be a problem if
you need something to mount on the instrument,
Cheers
Roger

On 9/2/07 13:30, “Philippe Gruchet”

wrote:

>
> Quote: tim_thompson@mac.com wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 13:43
> —————————————————-
>> I suppose a flex sensor could be attached to each string…?
>
> Hi Tim,
>
> Yes, that’s a great idea, thanks! Could also work for violin, cello, etc.
> Needing an extra piece of hardware to convert the signal into digital data or
> directly into MIDI data.
> (Very closed to a Roland GK pickup but unusable for bowed instruments.)
>
> So, for a six strings instrument, 6 sensors to 1 converter, 1 digital output
> to MaxMSP via USB.
>
> Something like that could work?
> < http://www.measurementcomputing.com/Usb_analog_i-o.html>
>
> Best,
> Philippe

#96062
Feb 9, 2007 at 2:53pm

Quote: roger.carruthers wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 15:26
—————————————————-
>(Banging the Paia drum again, if you’ll forgive the pun):

:-)
And it sounds great, in the literal sense of the term!

> http://paia.com/proddetail.asp?prod=9201DK
> Nice cheap way to convert to Midi, and there’s a useful link to
> a page on sensors; all you need then is Midi/USB, though power
> might be a problem if you need something to mount on the
> instrument

The sensor(s) only will have to be put on the instrument.

Thank you very much Roger for this address that I didn’t know!
I’ll look into their stuff… after a good lunch ;-)

All other ideas are welcome, please!

Thanks,
Philippe

#96063
Feb 9, 2007 at 6:49pm

Philippe Gruchet wrote:
> Hi Max fans ;-)
>
> For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass, later
> for the string quartet if something works), I need a multi-sensor to
> instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered by this USB
> port about which string has just been picked. Like an multiphonic
> magnetic or piezzo pickup.

The roland GK pickups (only for guitar/bass I am afraid) can hook up to
a pitch to midi converter, or can be split to be analyzed within Max.
If you’re thinking about (semi)acoustic guitars, there are these Godin
guitars, which have also multichannel pickups compatible with the Roland
system…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#96064
Feb 9, 2007 at 8:41pm

>Philippe Gruchet wrote:
>>Hi Max fans ;-)
>>
>>For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass, later
>>for the string quartet if something works), I need a multi-sensor to
>>instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered by this USB
>>port about which string has just been picked. Like an multiphonic
>>magnetic or piezzo pickup.

I never actually did it, but always thought about fixing a small
web-cam on my bass…….

could be an idea…

on classical instruments (cello, violin..) you could hook up piezos
between the tailpiece and bridge… not sure if this would work
(what’s more witha bow…..)

_______just guessing

best

kasper

Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart

#96065
Feb 9, 2007 at 9:25pm

;

—–Original Message—–
From: Kasper T Toeplitz
Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 21:41:08
Subject: Re: [maxmsp] Looking for specific sensor

>Philippe Gruchet wrote:
>>Hi Max fans ;-)
>>
>>For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass, later
>>for the string quartet if something works), I need a multi-sensor to
>>instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered by this USB
>>port about which string has just been picked. Like an multiphonic
>>magnetic or piezzo pickup.

I never actually did it, but always thought about fixing a small
web-cam on my bass…….

could be an idea…

on classical instruments (cello, violin..) you could hook up piezos
between the tailpiece and bridge… not sure if this would work
(what’s more witha bow…..)

_______just guessing

best

kasper

Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart

#96066
Feb 10, 2007 at 12:47pm

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 19:49
—————————————————-
> > For some musical instruments, I need a multi-sensor to
> > instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and powered
> > by this USB port about which string has just been picked.
>
> The roland GK pickups (only for guitar/bass I am afraid) can
> hook up to a pitch to midi converter, or can be split to be
> analyzed within Max.

Hi Stefan,

Yes, a Roland, Yamaha, Blue Chip or TerraTac hexaphonic magnetic pickup through a GI-20 or an Axon interface work very fine.
The challenge is to reduce at maximum the hardware involved.
Thus, I imagined one little electronic mounted on the instrument and connected to MaxMSP via USB.

> If you’re thinking about (semi)acoustic
> guitars, there are these Godin guitars, which have also
> multichannel pickups compatible with the Roland system…

I own one of them. (the fretless guitar, of course;-)
But the project is for a string quartet. (Fretless too :-)

Thanks for your ideas!
Philippe

#96067
Feb 10, 2007 at 1:25pm

Quote: Kasper T Toeplitz wrote on Fri, 09 February 2007 21:41
—————————————————-
>> For some musical instruments (starting with guitar and bass,
>> later for the string quartet if something works), I need a
>> multi-sensor to instruct a Max patcher through a USB port and
>> powered by this USB port about which string has just been
>> picked.
—————————————————-
Hi Kasper,

> I never actually did it, but always thought about fixing a small
> web-cam on my bass……. could be an idea…

Yes, this works very fine for motion detection. I did that with an iSight (30 frames/s) bringing a lot of amazing possibilities. And a lot of fun!

> on classical instruments (cello, violin..) you could hook up
> piezos between the tailpiece and bridge… not sure if this
> would work (what’s more witha bow…..)

Since piezos are pressure sensors, I don’t really understand where to put them… ?
Unless using a bridge with built-in piezos like Zeta violins.
A piezo built as guitar pick works well (aka, alien-picks ;-) too.
(Pat Metheny used that to fine-control his Synclavier.)

But those possibilities don’t target my simple goal: not pitch, just picked or bowed (or pizz, slapped, tapped, etc.) string detection.

> _______just guessing

So do I ;-)
Thanks,
Philippe

#96068
Feb 10, 2007 at 1:34pm

>
>But those possibilities don’t target my simple goal: not pitch, just
>picked or bowed (or pizz, slapped, tapped, etc.) string detection.
>

sorry, maybe i was wrong about the name of the sensor – maybe it is not piezo

what i thought about would be to fix something similar to the weight
which is on some cellos/violins, which prevent the “wolf tones”….

when you play (pluck) a string which you “fret”, you have 2 notes,
both sides of teh fret/finger – both sides of the string vibrate –
same with a bridge – both sides of the string (pre/post bridge)
vibrate (that’s 3 notes when i think about it !!)

I thought taht a sensor capturing THIS vibration would/could work…

why not try to ask MESI about it???

best

kasper

Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart

#96069
Feb 10, 2007 at 1:57pm

Kasper T Toeplitz wrote on Sat, 10 February 2007 14:34
—————————————————-
> what i thought about would be to fix something similar
> to the weight which is on some cellos/violins, which
> prevent the “wolf tones”….

Ah yes, a kind of ‘tailpiece-mute’. Great idea too!

> when you play (pluck) a string which you “fret”, you have 2
> notes, both sides of the fret/finger – both sides of the string
> vibrate -same with a bridge – both sides of the string (pre/
> post bridge) vibrate (that’s 3 notes when i think about it !!)

There’s also a little ‘ping’ above the head-nut = 4 possible bangs per string.
Thank you very much, I didn’t think about this.

Tim Thompson wrote:
> I suppose a flex sensor could be attached to each string

Sounds the way to go.

> why not try to ask MESI about it???

While reading the previous posts, I was just thinking about calling Marc next week :-)
If I remember, he did some custom tools for you, isn’t it?

Bye,
Philippe

#96070
Feb 10, 2007 at 2:35pm

The idea of any kind of vibration sensor (piezo, regular pickup, etc) is that you don’t have to use it to detect frequency or a precise amplitude. It is still effective for simple triggering because it will tell you if the string is vibrating or not! The downside to flex sensors is that they would have to be physically attached to strings somewhere between the bridge and the tailpiece…I don’t know how many violinists would go for that. But it does seem like an interesting possibility. Also, it may be prone to false positives from all sorts of motion. I especially think of a violinist squeezing the strings toward the fingerboard, but not playing.

Let us know how it all works! I’m curious.

Tim

#96071
Feb 10, 2007 at 2:46pm

>
>> why not try to ask MESI about it???
>
>While reading the previous posts, I was just thinking about calling
>Marc next week :-)
>If I remember, he did some custom tools for you, isn’t it?
>

sure he did – and i even hope he is currently working on some more!!!

kasper

Kasper T. Toeplitz
noise, composition, bass, computer

http://www.sleazeArt.com

http://www.myspace.com/sleazeart

#96072
Feb 10, 2007 at 4:42pm

Tim Thompson wrote:
—————————————————-
> The idea of any kind of vibration sensor (piezo, regular pickup,
> etc) is that you don’t have to use it to detect frequency or a
> precise amplitude. It is still effective for simple triggering
> because it will tell you if the string is vibrating or not!

Yes! And that’s just what I need!
Otherwise, I’d use a pack of Axon MIDI converters.

> The downside to flex sensors is that they would have to be
> physically attached to strings somewhere between the bridge and the
> tailpiece…I don’t know how many violinists would go for that.

Well, it could depends of the music.
When putting a mic on the violin of jazz musicians, meaning a large
place to play for a large audience, they like that ;-)

> But it does seem like an interesting possibility. Also, it may be
> prone to false positives from all sorts of motion. I especially
> think of a violinist squeezing the strings toward the fingerboard,
> but not playing.

Yes! Back there to the programming side with several kind of noise-
gates.
It also depends of the project. Noises could be interesting when
controlling a sonic spatialization, for example.

> Let us know how it all works! I’m curious.

I hope all will work, and I’m curious too ;-)

Thank you very much for your encouragement!
Philippe

#96073
Feb 10, 2007 at 11:48pm

Philippe GRUCHET skrev:
> Tim Thompson wrote:
> —————————————————-
>> The idea of any kind of vibration sensor (piezo, regular pickup, etc)
>> is that you don’t have to use it to detect frequency or a precise
>> amplitude. It is still effective for simple triggering because it
>> will tell you if the string is vibrating or not!
>
> Yes! And that’s just what I need!
> Otherwise, I’d use a pack of Axon MIDI converters.
Phillipe, I’m with Tim on this one, I think piezos will work a treat for
this. Keep us posted, eh?

Andreas W.

#96074
Feb 11, 2007 at 12:14am

Quote: Wetterberg wrote on Sun, 11 February 2007 00:48
—————————————————-
> Philippe, I’m with Tim on this one, I think piezos will work a
> treat for this. Keep us posted, eh?
—————————————————-
Hi Andreas,

Of course I will repport here what works and what doesn’t work, in the next… weeks, I’m afraid. Well, I will asap.
From my side, there’s a specified challenge, but this project could be done for a very generic purpose, technically as well as musically.

See you!
Philippe

#96075

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