Forums > MaxMSP

Matrix~ gain problem

December 12, 2006 | 11:54 pm

I’m trying to use a matrix~ to route different sources to different effects. I thought that the matrix automatically scaled gains so that if I send 2 sources to the same out that they would automatically scale without clipping. I can’t get this to work though, everything clips anytime I send more then one signal anywhere. What am I doing wrong?


December 13, 2006 | 12:44 am


December 13, 2006 | 1:19 am



f.e
December 13, 2006 | 9:13 am


December 13, 2006 | 10:17 am

Chris wrote:
> I thought that the matrix automatically scaled gains so that if I
> send 2 sources to the same out that they would automatically scale
> without clipping.

I am glad its not doing anything like that automatically, as its not as
simple as you might think. If you do it the safe way and dampen the
output by 6 dB for each doubling, you would get much much too low output
with real world signals (there 3 dB is more appropriate). Its so
dependend on what you send to it that you as patcher have to do it
yourself and thus be able to control the subtleties.

The most easy way, is to do it like in analog mixers. Just place a
volume control before or behind it and lower the level if its clipping.
Let your ear decide…
And don’t forget, the patch isn’t clipping, only the signal you send to
the dac~ might be clipped there. If you put a level control just before
the dac~s you should be fine for all circumstances in any patch…

> What am I doing wrong?

Not too much, just the concept that the machine should do musical
decisions automatically never fits, but the machine can take away the
burdens of a technical view to the topic…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


December 13, 2006 | 1:34 pm

Also, if you’d like some useful abstractions for dealing with matrix~
using multisliders or lists, e-mail me off list. Handles useful tasks
like making a simple (but v. CPU efficient) stereo mixer and such…

thanks,
Peter McCulloch

On Dec 12, 2006, at 6:54 PM, Chris wrote:

>
> I’m trying to use a matrix~ to route different sources to different
> effects. I thought that the matrix automatically scaled gains so that
> if I send 2 sources to the same out that they would automatically
> scale without clipping. I can’t get this to work though, everything
> clips anytime I send more then one signal anywhere. What am I doing
> wrong?
>


December 13, 2006 | 7:07 pm


December 13, 2006 | 10:54 pm


December 14, 2006 | 12:06 am


December 14, 2006 | 1:11 am


December 14, 2006 | 7:04 am

#F?$"]tlbraddock wrote on Tue, 12 December 2006 16:54
—————————————————-
> I’m trying to use a matrix~ to route different sources to different effects. I thought that the matrix automatically scaled gains so that if I send 2 sources to the same out that they would automatically scale without clipping. I can’t get this to work though, everything clips anytime I send more then one signal anywhere. What am I doing wrong?
—————————————————-

from what i know it does not scale down.

but if you split a signal into 2 signals and multiply
them again, it should not clip, at least not when your
input sigal did not exceed 0.999999, so it is still
right that you exspect this behaviour.

are you sure it is not something in your effects?

eventually post an example patch if you want a more
helpful answer.

-110



f.e
December 14, 2006 | 7:29 am


December 14, 2006 | 10:49 am

On 14-Dec-2006, at 8:29, f.e wrote:

> Lea, when a regular external (or one that *should* be loaded
> because you *know* it’s there) can’t load, it’s 99% sure that
> something with the same name but a different extension is in the
> search path. I wonder if this comes from the macintosh heritage of
> max and if it could be fixed someday.

foo.mxe, foo.mxt, foo.mxb, foo.pat (for example) are all valid
matches on disk for an object box that has ‘foo’ written inside.

This has really very little at all to do with the Mac OS heritage
(although the files would, in the good old days, have all simply been
called foo and have had different meta-data).

What could maybe be changed is Max’ strategy of finding the first
matching foo.*, trying it, and throwing in the towel if it doesn’t
load. Max could concievably continue searching for another
foo.somethingelsewhoknowswhatbutyouknowifyoulookhardenoughyoumightfindso
mething
file. It would just take longer.

There might be downsides to this idea, sais pas.

————– http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/ ————-
Peter Castine +–> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
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f.e
December 14, 2006 | 5:44 pm

Peter Castine wrote:
> On 14-Dec-2006, at 8:29, f.e wrote:
>
>> Lea, when a regular external (or one that *should* be loaded because
>> you *know* it’s there) can’t load, it’s 99% sure that something with
>> the same name but a different extension is in the search path. I
>> wonder if this comes from the macintosh heritage of max and if it
>> could be fixed someday.
>
> foo.mxe, foo.mxt, foo.mxb, foo.pat (for example) are all valid matches
> on disk for an object box that has ‘foo’ written inside.
Yes, for sure, if they’re not all in the max search path !

f.e
>


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