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Max 5 Developers Workshop 15-17 November 2008 at IRCAM

September 24, 2008 | 9:44 pm


October 1, 2008 | 1:35 am

Bonjour Emmanuel,

—————————————————-
> Max 5 Developers Workshop

> – Writing External Object in C
> Depending on the interest of the participants, other
> topics might be discussed as well.
—————————————————-

And about C++ and vectorization (Accelerate, vecLib, SSE)?
I’d be glad to be able to port some of my code into Max
externals without going back to hot loops in scalar C.

Best,
PG


October 1, 2008 | 8:44 am

On 1 oct. 08, at 03:35, Philippe Gruchet wrote:

>> – Writing External Object in C
>> Depending on the interest of the participants, other
>> topics might be discussed as well.
> —————————————————-
>
> And about C++ and vectorization (Accelerate, vecLib, SSE)?
> I’d be glad to be able to port some of my code into Max
> externals without going back to hot loops in scalar C.

That is out of scope for the workshop. If people have specific
questions about vectorization, Joshua can answer them, but we are not
going to teach a class on it.

ej


October 1, 2008 | 1:08 pm

> That is out of scope for the workshop. If people have specific
> questions about vectorization, Joshua can answer them, but we are
> not going to teach a class on it.

Will that be covered in the SDK? that would be ace!

pa


October 1, 2008 | 1:26 pm

So does this mean the SDK will be out soon?!

—– Original Message —–
From: "Pierre Alexandre Tremblay"

To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: [dev] Re: Max 5 Developers Workshop 15-17 November 2008 at
IRCAM

>> That is out of scope for the workshop. If people have specific questions
>> about vectorization, Joshua can answer them, but we are not going to
>> teach a class on it.
>
> Will that be covered in the SDK? that would be ace!
>
> pa


October 1, 2008 | 1:44 pm

AFAIK, there’s nothing specific about vectorization in Max. So you
should be abl to find some documentation about AltiVec and SSE on
Apple / Intel websites.

ej

On 1 oct. 08, at 15:08, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay

wrote:

>> That is out of scope for the workshop. If people have specific
>> questions about vectorization, Joshua can answer them, but we are
>> not going to teach a class on it.
>
> Will that be covered in the SDK? that would be ace!
>
> pa


October 1, 2008 | 2:55 pm

On Oct 1, 2008, at 6:08 AM, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:

>> That is out of scope for the workshop. If people have specific
>> questions about vectorization, Joshua can answer them, but we are
>> not going to teach a class on it.
>
> Will that be covered in the SDK? that would be ace!

No. Please see Apple, Intel, or Microsoft’s documentation on how to
program using SIMD. These are not particular to Max/MSP/Jitter in any
way. Note that the SDK doesn’t teach how to program in C or
fundamentals of DSP either. These sorts of things fall into the same
category. There are many great resources available from other sources
on these and other topics.

-Joshua


October 4, 2008 | 3:19 am


October 4, 2008 | 6:35 am


October 4, 2008 | 11:09 pm

On Oct 3, 2008, at 11:35 PM, Philippe GRUCHET wrote:
>
> What I meant was about handling or bridging C++ directly from the
> oncoming SDK Mac version… ?
> Then, Accelerate (that includes -implicitly- Altivec for UB) with
> vecLib inside for all about trigonometry, *and/or* **cross-
> platform** SSE optimizations for the x86 architecture.

I don’t understand. Just make the Accelerate library calls in your
perform code. There’s nothing special w/r/t MaxMSP.

Using C++ in Max has been covered by numerous threads.

For example the following thread which you participated in:

http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php?rid=0&t=msg&th=23670

or this one:

http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=99272

> So, high hopes… or definitively not?

If you can provide a specific question about what’s confusing you
about using Accelerate or C++ inside an MSP object, perhaps we can
help, or send you a link to the information you need. However, there
will not be a class on the subject. It will be more general about how
to make max objects.

Also, please note that the Max 5 SDK is not different at all for MSP.
So you can use the Max 4 SDK and all of your MSP objects will work
fine in Max 5.

-Joshua


October 5, 2008 | 11:50 pm

Quote: jkc wrote on Sun, 05 October 2008 01:09
—————————————————-

> On Oct 3, 2008, at 11:35 PM, Philippe GRUCHET wrote:
> >
> > Then, Accelerate (that includes -implicitly- Altivec for UB)
> > with vecLib inside for all about trigonometry, *and/or*
> > **cross- platform** SSE optimizations for the x86
> > architecture.

> I don’t understand. Just make the Accelerate library calls in
> your perform code. There’s nothing special w/r/t MaxMSP.

> Also, please note that the Max 5 SDK is not different at all
> for MSP.
> So you can use the Max 4 SDK and all of your MSP objects will
> work fine in Max 5.
—————————————————-

So, the remaining problem is that for writing an MSP external,
I need to #include "z_dsp.h". Correct?
And "z_dsp.h" #include "z_altivec.h".
Then, all run slower & with a higher CPU load on x86 than on ppc.
See:

< http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=msg&goto=92425>

Could I hope for something like a z_vdsp.h ?
Or, is there a method to not rely on z_altivec.h ?
If yes, I’d more than glad to get an example!

Best,
Philippe


October 7, 2008 | 4:48 am

> the remaining problem is that for writing an MSP external,
> I need to #include "z_dsp.h".
> And "z_dsp.h" #include "z_altivec.h".
—————————————————-

jkc replied:

"I don’t know how that should be a problem, but if it is
incompatible with Accelerate framework…"

Incompatible on x86 platforms only.

"… you are free to locally modify your z_dsp.h file
to remove z_altivec.h."

I didn’t think about a such ‘cut inside’.
I’m going to try that in the next days.

Thanks again Joshua for your kind help!
And welcome in Paris ;-)


November 25, 2008 | 12:15 pm

Thanks to Joshua, Emmanuel, Jeremy and David for their very helpful and interesting workshop!


November 25, 2008 | 2:32 pm

I was not able to make it to Paris for the workshop.
Would it be possible if some kind soul could post the
notes or examples? It would nice to be able to learn
at least a small part of what was discussed.

Anthony

—- fairesigneaumachiniste wrote:
>
> Thanks to Joshua, Emmanuel, Jeremy and David for their very helpful and interesting workshop!


November 25, 2008 | 3:00 pm

On Nov 25, 2008, at 6:32 AM,
> wrote:

> I was not able to make it to Paris for the workshop.
> Would it be possible if some kind soul could post the
> notes or examples? It would nice to be able to learn
> at least a small part of what was discussed.

IMO, the best "notes" is the recent SDK. We narrated a few small
diversions from the SDK travels as well as walked through these basic
SDK projects by modifying them together, but these were mainly for the
sake of an engaged programming exercise rather than showing a specific
technique not documented in the SDK. So it doesn’t make much sense to
document this discussion further or make them available to a general
public IMHO, but maybe I’m mistaken.

Basically think of the class as a large scale "pair programming"
session. The value of the class verses the SDK on its own is in the
social experience, not in a specific portion of information being
illuminated. For those of you that are feeling frustrated staring at
an SDK, I would suggest finding someone who lives near you that
programs to sit together and code looking over each other’s shoulder
(just as I suggested to people in the class).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_programming

This list is a social experience, and so I encourage questions and
communication here.

It might be worth mentioning that I’ve also been particularly affected
about educational approaches by a book I recently read, "The Ignorant
Schoolmaster", by Ranciere. In many ways it affirmed and elaborated
upon some thoughts I already had regarding education, society, and
control, but there’s some great history and compelling lines of
thinking. I would recommend this book to any students, teachers,
activists, etc. that consider issues of social inequality reinforced
in our conventional educational model.

http://www.google.com/search?q=%22ignorant+schoolmaster%22

Just my two cents.

-Joshua


November 25, 2008 | 9:58 pm

On 25 Nov 2008, at 15:00, Joshua Kit Clayton wrote:

> http://www.google.com/search?q=%22ignorant+schoolmaster%22

That looks rather interesting, but I doubt I’d have time to digest
much of it before I start teaching at STEIM next week, so I shall have
to rely on my own learning-by-example and hope that I osmosed
sufficiently from one G. Taylor earlier this year.

– N.

PS: "osmose" appears not to be a verb. In fact, it appears to be a
noun. How confusing is that?

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
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