MAX 5

Apr 17, 2007 at 2:29am

MAX 5

I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather then antiquated os8-9 graphics. Mmm fantasizing.

#31418
Apr 17, 2007 at 4:51am

> Mmm fantasizing.

I’ll bet it will be hot like:

http://tinyurl.com/2pjk73

_)
johan

#102038
Apr 17, 2007 at 9:17am

LOL!

Damn, that’s sweet! I wasn’t sure about upgrading, after finding this “leaked” screenshot:

http://www.billbuxton.com/natural2.gif

…though it it’s conceptually interesting, it seems somewhat counter-intuitive.

But now I’m convinced!

J.

#102039
Apr 17, 2007 at 9:32am

On 17 avr. 07, at 06:51, jvkr wrote:

> I’ll bet it will be hot like:
> http://tinyurl.com/2pjk73

Thanks, that will help a lot ;-)

ej

#102040
Apr 17, 2007 at 10:06am

please for the love of god don’t let it look like Vista ;0)

On 4/17/07, Emmanuel Jourdan wrote:
>
> On 17 avr. 07, at 06:51, jvkr wrote:
>
> > I’ll bet it will be hot like:
> > http://tinyurl.com/2pjk73
>
> Thanks, that will help a lot ;-)
>
> ej
>

#102041
Apr 17, 2007 at 10:29am

Quote: Axiom-Crux wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 04:29
—————————————————-
> I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather then antiquated os8-9 graphics.
—————————————————-

OS 8-9???

More like System 5 for the core look-and-feel, with a few of objects (panel, lcd, …) that are System 7-ish.

Don’t get me wrong, there have been lots of serious programming updates over the years, but the basic look is pretty monochrome/line-segment. My main consolation is that compared to Pd, Max is sexy. Sort of like comparing Peter Sagal to Carl Kasell.

#102042
Apr 17, 2007 at 10:57am

mmm… you haven’t seen desiredata yet, then.

it will give Max 5 a run for its money (in terms of interface, anyways)

https://devel.goto10.org/desiredata/wiki/ScreenShots

cheers
evan

On Apr 17, 2007, at 11:29 AM, Peter Castine wrote:

>
> Quote: Axiom-Crux wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 04:29
> —————————————————-
>> I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather
>> then antiquated os8-9 graphics.
> —————————————————-
>
> OS 8-9???
>
> More like System 5 for the core look-and-feel, with a few of
> objects (panel, lcd, …) that are System 7-ish.
>
> Don’t get me wrong, there have been lots of serious programming
> updates over the years, but the basic look is pretty monochrome/
> line-segment. My main consolation is that compared to Pd, Max is
> sexy. Sort of like comparing Peter Sagal to Carl Kasell.
> –
> ————– http://www.bek.no/~pcastine/Litter/ ————-
> Peter Castine +–> Litter Power & Litter Bundle for Jitter
>
> iCE: Sequencing, Recording & Interface Building for Max/MSP
> Extremely cool http://www.dspaudio.com/
>

#102043
Apr 17, 2007 at 12:06pm

Scary, indeed.

> mmm… you haven’t seen desiredata yet, then.
>
> https://devel.goto10.org/desiredata/wiki/ScreenShots
>

#102044
Apr 17, 2007 at 2:36pm

#102045
Apr 17, 2007 at 2:47pm

OMG! Hahahahah good one guys.

Whats up with desiredata, this is twisted!

i been playign with plogue a bit (don’t tell maxine, she gets jealous). But for my money max will always be the best modular virtual system, Reaktors sound quality sounds like a dead cyborg (don’t know why, the synthesis is excellent but the filters and granular sound so dull like dry bread) and PD is kinda wimpy and ugly by todays standards. Plogue is coming out pretty cool (and very pretty with its besier curve chords) but still not nearly the capabilities of the years of user base that have made max externals.

As for the look, I would imagine it with a kslider that looks semi dimensional, very clean and pretty, anti aliased patch cables, maybe even new preset sliders that look more shiny and osxlike. I know we have full controll over the look but it woudl be nice to be able to have pretty patches right out the box for once. Most people I see end up using the preset objects anyway because they are way more convinient unless they are releasing their creation to the public.

As far as functionality I hope they swallow up some of the externals or abstractions that are out there, for example I would have loved to have the Jimmies back when I started maxing, but it took 4 years before I knew about them and was willing to throw down 200 dollars to get an IRCAM membership just so I could obtain them. It woudl be wonderful to have simple limiter, flanger, and different filter abstractions so that we can learn by looking at them and have easy to use functions that everyone needs. Maybe even the max toolbox so you coudl do really convinient things like plug multiple outlets to multiple inlets automatically, or distribute objects on x or y axis.

Im just curious to see if others have the same values or if any C74 employees will spill a few proverbial beans.

#102046
Apr 17, 2007 at 3:11pm

>—————————————————-
>> I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather then antiquated os8-9 graphics.
>—————————————————-

fwiw, I like the way the interface looks now, complete with old-timey gui elements.

Need personalized email and website? Look no further. It’s easy
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#102047
Apr 17, 2007 at 5:36pm

> More like System 5 for the core look-and-feel, with a few of objects (panel, lcd, …) that are System 7-ish.
>
> Don’t get me wrong, there have been lots of serious programming updates over the years, but the basic look is pretty monochrome/line-segment. My main consolation is that compared to Pd, Max is sexy. Sort of like comparing Peter Sagal to Carl Kasell.
—————————————————-

hey peter did you just complain about max beeing system 7ish
and black+white?

i love it like that. please do not ask for aqua style objects
boxes and reason-style connections. nobody needs that.

if you want your max looking more modern, i suggest to create
your own GUI stuff, call it “iCE” or so, and put it out.

oh wait …

-110

#102048
Apr 17, 2007 at 5:38pm

well i agree that it doesn’t look nice, seems like a not so well done hybrid of max and the ugly jmax, but there are some features, that seem to be quite promising like the multiple undo and the firefox style find.

micha

#102049
Apr 17, 2007 at 5:41pm

Quote: david@5of4.com wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 09:11
——————————————
> fwiw, I like the way the interface looks now, complete with old-timey gui elements.
—————————————————-

Agreed! I’m more concerned with how max runs than how it looks. The last thing a Max/MSP patch needs is some involuntary GUI bloat.

#102050
Apr 17, 2007 at 6:10pm

Me too for the function-not-fashion lobby.
I always thought that programming was /meant/ to look ugly, so that everyone
(including me) would think it must be difficult?
Cheers
Roger

On 17/4/07 18:41, “Nick Inhofe” wrote:

>
> Quote: david@5of4.com wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 09:11
> ——————————————
>> fwiw, I like the way the interface looks now, complete with old-timey gui
>> elements.
> —————————————————-
>
> Agreed! I’m more concerned with how max runs than how it looks. The last thing
> a Max/MSP patch needs is some involuntary GUI bloat.
>
>

#102051
Apr 17, 2007 at 6:26pm

> Agreed! I’m more concerned with how max runs than how it looks. The last thing
> a Max/MSP patch needs is some involuntary GUI bloat.
>
A great timeline without graphical interface would be perfect.
A better interface without a new timeline would be a waste.
For example.

#102052
Apr 17, 2007 at 6:44pm

I think it’s a bit misleading to assume that a nicer GUI would necessarily cause “bloat” – *any* GUI causes bloat. But maybe an idea would be to make it support “skins”, so people could make pretty GUIs, themes, etc., for the existing objects. Then we could make our own Darth Vader “theme”, or our “Neo” theme, or, or… oh, wouldn’t that be sad. But, on the serious side, it would probably lighten the burden of c74 having to please everybody.

The point is that in the “form vs function” debate, anything we patch with is “form”. If it were all text-based, and ran from the Terminal, that would be a different story. Of course, some objects take more juice to draw than others, with anti-aliasing, drop shadows, and all that, but it’s not as though there’s no GUI on Max as it is now. My basic philosophy is that the GUI should be consistent with the OS it’s running on, which the current GUI is not.

J.

#102053
Apr 17, 2007 at 6:50pm

The only thing I hope is Max 5 supports all my Max 4 shit so I don’t
have to rewrite it.

But insider info has indicated that there are both rainbows AND unicorns
in Max 5 (ssh!).

b

Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:
> I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather then antiquated os8-9 graphics. Mmm fantasizing.
> –
> -=ili!ili=- http://www.Axiom-Crux.net -=ili!ili=-
>


barry threw
composition : sound : programming
http://www.barrythrew.com
bthrew(at)gmail(dot)com
857-544-3967

Today, Noise is triumphant and reigns sovereign over the sensibility of men.
- Luigi Russolo, The Art of Noises

#102054
Apr 17, 2007 at 7:09pm

!!!!!!

Rainbows and Unicorns?

best.upgrade.ever!

On Apr 17, 2007, at 2:50 PM, Barry Threw wrote:

> The only thing I hope is Max 5 supports all my Max 4 shit so I
> don’t have to rewrite it.
>
> But insider info has indicated that there are both rainbows AND
> unicorns in Max 5 (ssh!).
>
> b
>
> Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:
>> I wonder if it will be pretty, and look like osx finally rather
>> then antiquated os8-9 graphics. Mmm fantasizing.
>> –
>> -=ili!ili=- http://www.Axiom-Crux.net -=ili!ili=-
>
> —
> barry threw
> composition : sound : programming
> http://www.barrythrew.com
> bthrew(at)gmail(dot)com
> 857-544-3967
>
> Today, Noise is triumphant and reigns sovereign over the
> sensibility of men.
> – Luigi Russolo, The Art of Noises

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#102055
Apr 17, 2007 at 7:52pm

At 11:50 AM -0700 4/17/07, Barry Threw wrote:
>The only thing I hope is Max 5 supports all my Max 4 shit so I don’t have to rewrite it.

Agreed, although I would accept some rework if it was required to advance the state of Max. Backwards compatibility can be a bear.

>But insider info has indicated that there are both rainbows AND unicorns in Max 5 (ssh!).

Cool. I hope it can also deal with more than one processor, though.

-C


Chris Muir | “There are many futures and only one status quo.
cbm@well.com | This is why conservatives mostly agree,
http://www.xfade.com | and radicals always argue.” – Brian Eno

#102056
Apr 17, 2007 at 7:53pm

On 17 Apr 2007, at 10:17, jbmaxwell wrote:

> http://www.billbuxton.com/natural2.gif

As long as it gives me the power features I need, I don’t mind. Maybe
something like this:

http://terror.snm-hgkz.ch/photos/d/1164-2/evento.png

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
http://www.cassiel.com
http://www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
http://www.loadbang.net

#102057
Apr 17, 2007 at 8:08pm

> The only thing I hope is Max 5 supports all my Max 4 shit so I don’t
> have to rewrite it.

I have the feeling c74 values this request very high.
However, that would be good to have an official “deprecated” status for some
objects.

(OT: maybe MacOSX came faster and better than Vista partly because Apple
doesn’t hesitate to break the past to build something new. That’s what they
will surely do with Logic.)

#102058
Apr 17, 2007 at 8:25pm

#102059
Apr 17, 2007 at 8:32pm

#102060
Apr 17, 2007 at 9:30pm

On 17 Apr 2007, at 21:32, jln wrote:

> My God ! I had never seen so much tabs in a single window. This is
> amazing…

I think the impact is only heightened by it all being in German.

– N.

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
http://www.cassiel.com
http://www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
http://www.loadbang.net

#102061
Apr 17, 2007 at 9:52pm

Quote: jbm wrote on Tue, 17 April 2007 12:44
—————————————————-
> I think it’s a bit misleading to assume that a nicer GUI
> would necessarily cause “bloat” – *any* GUI causes bloat.

well an object box must, by definition, be at least a b&w square…

> My basic philosophy is that the GUI should be consistent with
> the OS it’s running on, which the current GUI is not.

…but its questionable if it really should look like the
OS does.

i wouldnt know how to give an object box a consistent
appearance with OS 9, windows XP looks extremly ugly, and in
OSX i run shapeshifter with different themes…

who here agrees with me that MAXMSP looks better than PD ? :)

#102062
Apr 17, 2007 at 11:06pm

I like the object boxes, I think those are classic, Im just saying like the GUI stuff like the keyboard, scope, waveform, and others could look prettier, just look at any Native Instrument synth and they look so clean and pretty and at the end of the day LOOKS DO MATTER! I may be a computer nerd and some days I don’t shower and shave and get nasty looking, but at the end of the day when I do, I feel better. Working in music software is like that, and currently its alot of work to make a javascript or even a still sequence based object look good. I would love to be able to make a patch with just max and have it look good out of the box, cause it would be just that much more pleasurable working with it. I don’t think it should be too bubbly and all over the place but some antialiasing and clean shading goes a long way. THE WHOLE WORLD SHOULD LOOK LIKE IPHONE!!!!

hahahahah unicorns!

#102063
Apr 18, 2007 at 12:42am

i like the look of max.I has a professinal programming feel to it. But the UI objects etc i suppose could look more Reaktoresque. but their not essential. Some of the jaza UI’s look great so it could just have lots more of them in and keep the classic look still for everything else. it looks alot better PD. Though PD has its own charm. i hope that the Windows version doesn’t look like OS-X. I hope it has the Vista Aero Glass look. whats wrong with the way vista looks. it looks better than OS-X (personal but controversial opinion). max looks wicked under anything when you style is skinned anyway. Can you skin/change OS-X easily like you can with Windows. Max 4 looks funny under linux its got the classic windows 2000 and before look. its great. bless WINE’s cotton socks. Is there any date for max 5. I’m assuming will be on both platforms not just os-x too.

#102064
Apr 18, 2007 at 2:02am

I like the look of vista, the fact that it blurs things behind transparent layers. I still like the look of OSX more though, but not by much. At the core though I love the stability of OSX and so far its been really compatible and dependable since I started using it. I actually switched to mac so I could use max/msp right when jitter came out. then a couple years later they made it cross platform. Im not saying they should completely change the look of max, it has a classic charm and programming language look that it needs for me to take it as seriously as I do. I just think it should be cleaner and more up to date looking.

#102065
Apr 18, 2007 at 7:27am

i love how max looks, please don’t change it!! =(

#102066
Apr 18, 2007 at 8:44am

I don’t really mind the way it looks now. There are a couple things that could be moved around though, for quicker and easier use.

- Move the objects bar to the top of the screen, don’t have one for every patcher. This gets rid of the 20pixel empty space at the top of all my patches since i hate scrollbars. Allow dragging of objects between patchers.

- Make the choices from the view menu (show connections etc) accessible in one click or shortcut. Same with Paste Replace.

- Move the status of a max window somewhere else, it’s always falling off the monitor now.

- Some align/grid option would be nice for building guis.

- This is OS-related: make me able to select objects within patches without having to select the patch first.

- Doubleclick on a send, receive or value should also work on a grab or forward.

This interface would also be great:

http://www.advantage3d.com/images/do-it-button.gif

#102067
Apr 18, 2007 at 11:47am

Joel Swensen schrieb:
> please for the love of god don’t let it look like Vista ;0)

Vista? what is that? never heard of it… Hasta la vista…
I bet you will be able to choose skins which will eat all the power you
gained from faster processors (like Vista), I’d take the Pd skin… ;-)

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#102068
Apr 18, 2007 at 3:01pm

i just want scoping, so i can have two copies of one external that reference
sflists (buffers, etc) and not have conflicts. a truly scoped send object
(pvar doesn’t duplicate send!), and scoped references are my biggest
complaints about max. subpatchers should inherit scope from their parent
patchers, and only from their parent patchers!!!!

anyways, i’m excited to see what c74 is gonna do with this one.

On 4/18/07, Stefan Tiedje wrote:
>
> Joel Swensen schrieb:
> > please for the love of god don’t let it look like Vista ;0)
>
> Vista? what is that? never heard of it… Hasta la vista…
> I bet you will be able to choose skins which will eat all the power you
> gained from faster processors (like Vista), I’d take the Pd skin… ;-)
>
> Stefan
>
> –
> Stefan Tiedje————x——-
> –_____———–|————–
> –(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
> — _|_)—-|—–()————–
> ———-()——–www.ccmix.com
>
>

#102069
Apr 18, 2007 at 3:20pm

Exactly! I love the way Max looks. It’s all about efficiency, and that
is beautiful. Apple just makes the interface pretty in OSX so they can
sell more computers, it’s marketing. Meanwhile, they have to waste
time coming up with technologies likes Quartz Extreme to handle all
the massive graphics and real time drop shadows they’ve used while the
OS feature set (IE: The Finder) needs massive work.

Cycling, please don’t make that mistake.

> > > please for the love of god don’t let it look like Vista ;0)

#102070
Apr 18, 2007 at 4:41pm

It’s nice to see someone resurrecting jMax…

On Apr 17, 2007, at 6:57 AM, evan.raskob [lists] wrote:

> mmm… you haven’t seen desiredata yet, then.
>
> it will give Max 5 a run for its money (in terms of interface, anyways)
>
> https://devel.goto10.org/desiredata/wiki/ScreenShots
>
>
> cheers
> evan
>

#102071
Apr 18, 2007 at 4:46pm

#102072
Apr 18, 2007 at 6:10pm

Im not saying you shoudl change the look without options, I know lots of people love the current look, Im saying in the get info if there was an option for anti aliasing, that sure woudl be great, or maybe little curved corners or subtle shading, that looks good to me (OPTIONS are good to have). funny how people who are so progressive about sound are so conservative about their interface.

#102073
Apr 18, 2007 at 6:25pm

Wade skrev:
> Exactly! I love the way Max looks. It’s all about efficiency, and that
> is beautiful.
What would really make my patching experience more efficient, gui-wise,
would be the ability to colour /group objects more heavily than the thin
line going around them. I’d like something like the colour selection of
number boxes, but for all objects.

Andreas.

#102074
Apr 18, 2007 at 7:29pm

#102075
Apr 18, 2007 at 7:36pm

#102076
Apr 18, 2007 at 8:28pm

#102077
Apr 18, 2007 at 8:43pm

jose manuel berenguer wrote:
> information should be displayed in the best way, of course. If advanced
> displaying information techniques are needed to represent complex
> informations (and a max document can contain a lot of such a thing), I
> welcome them. In the other hand, if the reason to modify the appearance
> is to graphically approach max to other musical softwares, I couldn’t
> understand it.

Very well stated. “Me too!”

And Julien’s imageburger experiment…
I suspect imageburgers are one of the most tragically underutilized
features in current Max versions. Using imageburgers with subpatchers
and abstractions allows you to work in the classical style: equal parts
form and function, and an excellent fit with Max’s ‘native’ UI
assumptions (dataflow, encapsulation, etc.).

I had been trying to come up with a nice interface for my sequencing
environment, but it was getting really complicated. More of my code
(and it tended to be the uglier stuff) was dedicated to making the UI
function the way I thought it should than was actually doing musical work!

Then I realized something very important to me: that the interface I was
after was really, essentially, very similar to the Max interface
(multidimensional datastructure sequencing, strong hierarchy). This was
a problem until I got selfish and let go of the idea that the completed
project should be usable in the Runtime. Sad, but it saved me an
incredible amount of frustrating work.

Thus imageburgers clarify the way the major components of my system
interact. With one parent-child inlet-outlet set per abstraction* it
works really nicely. Looks like a pretty flow chart.

*I hadn’t consciously noticed until now, but this is another way to
think about OO-style scoping in Max. The structure of the patch
explicitly defines object boundaries and scope. At the highest level,
the connections between objects only define relationships. I see this
as the ‘native’ way to work with rather than against Max’s assumptions.

These highest-level patchings just pass UID references from node to
node. Child nodes then use the UID’s to tap into the data they need
from the parent – nodes are friendly containers for buffer~s. The
instructions generated by the child nodes construct a more typical
‘work’ patch-set that handles the signal connections. (This is a
sequencing environment, not a performance patch in the usual sense, so
it’s ok for me to interrupt audio for scripting when I need to change
the structure.)

#102078
Apr 19, 2007 at 7:29am
#102079
Apr 19, 2007 at 7:30am

Well, regarding Max and its GUI, i think the lack of good will is
obvious. And reading the /”don’t touch my old greyish max !”/ seems like
the old : austere software = serious software for no joke people. Great.
But, anyhow / nevertheless, we deserve an entirely customisable
software. This is how the vast majority of softwares would have to
evolve to be kept as reference in the future.

People here spend more than half of their time on this rough window,
without antialiasing to reward their efforts in trying to build a decent
interface, without freely customisable shortcuts (at least on Windows),
without maxtoolbox features already included, without steady clock and
so on.

Sure we love Max, but there’s still a lot to do.

Last but not least, i don’t know why you all laugh at the DesireData’s
approach. It’s damned ugly, for sure, but there’s a bunch of people
organising themselves to give more usefull features for a free software
than you could find in a commercial one…

best wishes

f.e


f.e chanfrault | aka | personal computer music
> >>>>>> http://www.personal-computer-music.com
> >>>>>> |sublime music for a desperate people|

#102080
Apr 19, 2007 at 7:43am

f.e. ….

I must say, I am not convinced.

#102081
Apr 19, 2007 at 8:03am

#102082
Apr 19, 2007 at 8:11am

Quote: f.e wrote on Thu, 19 April 2007 08:30
—————————————————-
> Well, regarding Max and its GUI, i think the lack of good will is
> obvious. And reading the /”don’t touch my old greyish max !”/ seems like
> the old : austere software = serious software for no joke people. Great.
> But, anyhow / nevertheless, we deserve an entirely customisable
> software. This is how the vast majority of softwares would have to
> evolve to be kept as reference in the future.
>

Thanks for saying this, f.e. For my part, I would love a new GUI, and particularly a new look applied to the GUI objects… (and getting ubumenu to stay open on a single-click!) But a themed approach would work too – so people could select a “classic” max look, or a newer, updated look. Finale has this, and it works pretty well (though that software seems to be coming apart at the seams, IMO).
I think you’re right on the money with the “austere software = serious software” point. But serious software, to me, is software that increases productivity and workflow, both of which are intimately tied-up with GUI design. It’s not that it has to look “pretty”, with glassy blobs and shadows all over the place, but it should be comfortable to look at for long periods of time, should help guide the user’s eye to the significant functions of the program and, in the case of Max, assist in understanding patcher design. As an example, drop shadows and/or transparency could be used to make the use of foreground/background layers visually apparent (and it could be toggled on/off, if performance became an issue). Anyway, I’m sure c74 has already thought of everything we can imagine, and more. It’s mostly a matter of how much they can do *without* sacrificing runtime performance, which is everybody’s biggest concern, I’m sure.
But this business about a retro GUI being a “serious” GUI is just sentimentality, IMO. After all, even Max’s GUI was bleeding-edge, once upon a time. And poor OS X pretty much craps its little binary pants every time it needs to draw a window anyway, regardless of what’s in it (well, not quite, but you get the idea). So why not benefit from the past 10 years of advances in GUI design? It’s not like we need 3d animated cyber-dragons moving our patcher boxes around, or even a little animated dog to help us find the numbox ;-), but there are certainly things that could be improved with a new look.

Mind you, if I had to choose between a snazzy GUI and more advanced debugging tools, I’d take the latter in a heartbeat.

J.

#102083
Apr 19, 2007 at 10:13am

Bas van der Graaff schrieb:
> – Some align/grid option would be nice for building guis.

cmd-y ? (Object menu)

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#102084
Apr 19, 2007 at 5:21pm

form should follow functionality.

classes should optionally include icons. options to hide/show class icon, class name,arguments, attributes

*integrate coll with js and java!!!
*carriage returns inside of objects (for attributes)
*fix paths
*roll over an inlet/outlet/or cable provides optional visualisation of whats running through it. (sound/image/message)
*autofill for attributes
*pattr backward.

[img]index.php?t=getfile&id=599&private=0[/img]

#102085
Apr 19, 2007 at 6:19pm

Matthew Aidekman wrote:
> form should follow functionality.

Matthew… your mock-up… it’s beautiful. :)

there should be windowshade functionality, and i would hope that each
object remembers the state it’s in. (that way patch design stays sane
and useful, not blinktext.) it would be nice if the attributes could
somehow reflect the current values too; perhaps a different text color
and/or a switch between instantiated/current values.

> *integrate coll with js and java!!!

yes.

> *carriage returns inside of objects (for attributes)

reliable carriage returns *everywhere*, please.

> *fix paths

yes.

> *roll over an inlet/outlet/or cable provides optional visualisation of whats running through it. (sound/image/message)

like an automatically selected hovering numbox-ish thing?

> *autofill for attributes

i like.

> *pattr backward.

mmmmm…

#102086
Apr 19, 2007 at 6:51pm

Like Quartz Composer

I dont know about the windowshade thing. That really makes it hard to
glance at a patch and deduce what is going on. If a patch is
unlocked, it should at least windowshade ‘open’. Why not hide the
object then?

working returns, yes please please please please please please please.

On Apr 19, 2007, at 2:19 PM, dlurk wrote:

>
>
>> *roll over an inlet/outlet/or cable provides optional
>> visualisation of whats running through it. (sound/image/message)
>
> like an automatically selected hovering numbox-ish thing?
>

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#102087
Apr 19, 2007 at 6:53pm

#102088
Apr 19, 2007 at 7:41pm

regulars(vade1) know I spend WAY TO MUCH TIME thinking about GUI stuff. sometimes I lean towards the opinion that we’re assistants and the developers are the artists.

Window shades.
The normal way to do all this would be to include all this in the (currently unused) getInfo pallette not a window shade with all the attributes, show/hide options, object color. things still need to stay the same size/position in your patch.

Yes, a rollover thingy (like a hint)

Something tells me that max five is past the brain storming stage though. As usual, Max Folk, its just excersizing some deamons. not demands.

#102089
Apr 19, 2007 at 7:41pm

#102090
Apr 19, 2007 at 8:29pm

I like that mockup, thats what Im talking about! subtle shading and antialiasing go a LONG way! Im not entirely sure about the pic of the torus in the little object box but the readability of the top down works great!

Im sure max is well on its way, but I know if I was makign a software with a large userbase Id love to read what people find important.

Besides, I started this thread as a fantasy anyways, just to visualize it in my head and get excited about the next level.

#102091
Apr 19, 2007 at 8:37pm

Oh and the zoom idea is great!! they have that in plogue and I love it, really helps when you want to make more complex patches, you can zoom around and keep lots on one page, I only have an Ibook for a laptop and I do alot of coding on there, and it only has a 1024 view resolution, which is tough to keep complex patches in that area, it does force sub patching in a good way but theres some days where I wish I could just zoom out a bit. Though its not my biggest concern of all (coughcough *acurate-metro-that-doesn’t-turn-off-randomly* coughcough)

#102092
Apr 19, 2007 at 8:52pm

At 2:37 PM -0600 4/19/07, Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:
>Oh and the zoom idea is great!! they have that in plogue and I love
>it, really helps when you want to make more complex patches, you can
>zoom around and keep lots on one page, I only have an Ibook for a
>laptop and I do alot of coding on there, and it only has a 1024 view
>resolution, which is tough to keep complex patches in that area, it
>does force sub patching in a good way but theres some days where I
>wish I could just zoom out a bit. Though its not my biggest concern
>of all (coughcough *acurate-metro-that-doesn’t-turn-off-randomly*
>coughcough)

Since you’re on OS X, don’t forget that you can zoom the whole screen
easily, with either key commands, or with a key command + mouse
scroll wheel for example. Open System Preferences/Keyboard &
Mouse/Mouse tab, for example, if you have a scroll wheel mouse. I
just hit Ctrl and then scroll the mouse – boom, instant zoom/unzoom.
If you don’t have a mouse (i.e. laptop), look at System
Preferences/Universal Access/Seeing tab. There you can see the key
commands to zoom in/out.

Dan

Dan Nigrin
Defective Records
202 Hack / PC-1600 User / VSTi Host / OMS Convert / Jack OS X / Major
Malfunction
http://www.defectiverecords.com

http://www.jackosx.com

#102093
Apr 19, 2007 at 9:09pm

cant zoom out though

#102094
Apr 19, 2007 at 9:11pm

I remember one day that my friend and I did an entire session in inverted screen black and white mode, we were working with accelerometers and mapping them to abysnth and max/msp and it was really tripped out.

What a great memory

#102095
Apr 19, 2007 at 9:13pm

Matthew Aidekman wrote:
> regulars(vade1) know I spend WAY TO MUCH TIME thinking about GUI stuff. sometimes I lean towards the opinion that we’re assistants and the developers are the artists.

It’s appreciated.

> Window shades.
> The normal way to do all this would be to include all this in the getInfo pallette not a window shade with all the attributes, show/hide options, object color. things still need to stay the same size/position in your patch.

“Windowshade” may be the wrong term. I’m referring to current values
(maybe only for single-value objects) and attributes (perhaps select
which ones in the Inspector). Essentially the same as your mock-up when
expanded. When collapsed, essentially the same as the current object
box. And a key feature is that this open/closed state is bound to each
instantiation and saved with the patch; as you say, everything needs to
stay the same size and keep the same position.

I’d love to see this option and use it on the few (varying) objects I
always find myself needing to monitor. I wouldn’t want to be stuck with
it for every object, because even on my 1600×1050 display the real
estate would disappear way too fast and patches would become difficult
to read (less overview). It would be really nice for development and,
with selectable displayed info, possibly convenient even for finished
interfaces.

This could be possible in Max right now but scripting bpatchers would be
required. The overhead patchmess would make it less than worthwhile.

> Something tells me that max five is past the brain storming stage though. As usual, Max Folk, its just excersizing some deamons. not demands.

I assume so. My hope is that for anything unforeseen, hooks can be
added that will make life easier later on. For anything foreseen, this
thread may be some kind of personal exercise in frustration management
for the developers. I comfort myself with the knowledge that they are
all competent to ignore the whole thread if they want to.

#102096
Apr 19, 2007 at 9:26pm

“antialiasing go a LONG way!”

First of all, I really hate myself for doing this at all since my pet peeve for the past 2 years was iPhone mockups. (who spends that kind of time on that junk?)

But I will say this. It was written from a conservative programmers point of view. There is no antialiasing in the mockup. max already provides antialiasing for fonts 12pt and up. geneva 9pt antialiased is about as legible as braille. I felt the shading could be computed once and stored in RAM as a 10 pixel image.

Not much for more then ten years.

#102097
Apr 20, 2007 at 4:57am

If you read any of my previous points, I was talking about patch cables, GUI objects and other things, not your pic, sorry if I made it seem that way. I was just saying I thought your idea was good. You really shouldn’t flip into pissed mode… and I don’t think this was anything akin to iphone mockups, this is a functional idea perspective, and a way to show others your idea, not a total fantasy for a hip little convenience/toy (Wii mockups ugh)

At any rate, this thread is so bi-polar its kindof screwed up.

#102098
Apr 20, 2007 at 9:31am

Matthew Aidekman schrieb:
> form should follow functionality.
>
> *carriage returns inside of objects (for attributes)

Your picture tells everything, especially since 4.5 all my formating is
screwed, its much worse than it had been before…
(I complained often… :-(
Thanks for such a clear example, this would be great. Could be easily
customisable with an init textfile for mapping pics to object names…

It should be very easy to allow carriage returns and tabs in the object
box. Each and every box should have an inspector to define its behaviour…
It doesn’t need to be fully blown 2-byte compatibility, like for
comments, cr and tabs would be fine. A tab should simply make the
following text align right….
Should be easy, in the end a white space is a white space and would stay
white space even if it is saved…

Max should just never convert whitespace in the object boxes to ascii
32. It seems so easy, that it doesn’t need to wait till Max 5. These
white spaces do work while patching, why not always…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#102099
Apr 20, 2007 at 2:17pm

!?

… yes… you… can… ?

On Apr 19, 2007, at 5:09 PM, Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:

>
> cant zoom out though
> –
> -=ili!ili=- http://www.Axiom-Crux.net -=ili!ili=-

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#102100
Apr 20, 2007 at 3:32pm

#102101
Apr 20, 2007 at 4:19pm

At 5:32 PM +0200 4/20/07, jose manuel berenguer wrote:
>actually, in macintel (at least) laptops ctrl + two fingers in the trackpad produces zoom in and zoom out, but when at the default zoom config, you cant zoom out.

Command, not Control.

This zooms whatever is in the frame buffer. Applications don’t even know zooming is going on. You can only zoom what’s visible in your windows.

-C


Chris Muir | “There are many futures and only one status quo.
cbm@well.com | This is why conservatives mostly agree,
http://www.xfade.com | and radicals always argue.” – Brian Eno

#102102
Apr 20, 2007 at 5:04pm

#102103
Apr 20, 2007 at 5:41pm

On Apr 20, 2007, at 10:04 AM, jose manuel berenguer wrote:

> comand + two fingers = scrolling up/down && left/right
>
> control + two fingers = zoom in/out
>
> that happens, at least, on my macbook pro 2.0 and 2.3, both
> running macos10.4.9
>

ctrl + two fingers on my MacBook Pro also zooms in and out.

But command + two fingers does the same thing as two fingers alone:
scrolls up/down left/right. I don’t think you need the command key
to scroll, just two fingers on the trackpad.

Vlad

Vlad Spears
Urbi et orbi

http://www.daevlmakr.com

http://www.2secondfuse.com

#102104
Apr 20, 2007 at 5:47pm

#102105
Apr 20, 2007 at 5:59pm

#102106
Apr 20, 2007 at 6:18pm

Vade, you can not zoom out further then the 100% screen size.
no

you

cant

#102107
Apr 20, 2007 at 6:36pm

I did not realize that was what was being asked.

:)

you could, since its just a texture on a quad to the graphics card,
zoom out, but, you would only be seeing the GL background ;)

On Apr 20, 2007, at 2:18 PM, Nicholas C. Raftis III wrote:

>
> Vade, you can not zoom out further then the 100% screen size.
> no
>
> you
>
>
> cant
> –
> -=ili!ili=- http://www.Axiom-Crux.net -=ili!ili=-

v a d e //

http://www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info

#102108
Apr 21, 2007 at 12:01am

hehehe did you think I meant that once you zoom in your fucked and have to buy a new computer?? hahahaha

Im sure you could zoom out, sure would be pimp to have the ability to have more screen then you have space.. dont they have multidesktops in the new OS10.5? I swear I saw that somewhere… or smackbook.. where you can tap the side of the monitor and it will flip to another screen… that would be nice too. I wonder if the modbooks have the motion sensors.. I want to get one of those so bad.. OOH I WONDER IF YOU CAN USE THE GPS IN MAX!!!! how sick would that be to draw abstracts of your path throughout the day with jitter.. , how sick would it be just to use the tablet screen to draw jitter objects… ooh geek giddyness!

Good luck Vader!

#102109
Apr 21, 2007 at 7:10am

Nicholas C. Raftis III schrieb:
> dont they have multidesktops in the new OS10.5? I swear I saw that
> somewhere…

For sure you don’t need 10.5 for that. I’ve seen it as well, forgot
where. Its standard on Linux desktops…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#102110
Apr 21, 2007 at 7:16am

Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Sat, 21 April 2007 08:10
—————————————————-
> Nicholas C. Raftis III schrieb:
> > dont they have multidesktops in the new OS10.5? I swear I saw that
> > somewhere…
>
> For sure you don’t need 10.5 for that. I’ve seen it as well, forgot
> where. Its standard on Linux desktops…
>

It’s being integrated into 10.5 as “Spaces”, I think. But you might be able to find some 3rd party app to do it now.

J.

#102111
Apr 21, 2007 at 9:41pm

jbmaxwell skrev:
> Quote: Stefan Tiedje wrote on Sat, 21 April 2007 08:10
> —————————————————-
>
>> Nicholas C. Raftis III schrieb:
>>
>>> dont they have multidesktops in the new OS10.5? I swear I saw that
>>> somewhere…
>>>
>> For sure you don’t need 10.5 for that. I’ve seen it as well, forgot
>> where. Its standard on Linux desktops…
>>
>>
>
> It’s being integrated into 10.5 as “Spaces”, I think. But you might be able to find some 3rd party app to do it now.
>
> J.
There’s definitely been aaaall sorts of 3rd party OEM software that did
this for winXP over the last several years. I still have no doubt that
“Spaces” will be launched as a USP for leopard….
;)

Andreas.

#102112

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