Andrew Benson

Cycling '74 and Ableton are pleased to announce...

Max for Live and MaxMSP 5.1 are now in public beta.

https://cycling74.com/forums/index.php?t=thread&frm_id=29&rid=2688&S=15f7814edefd24ab868ba48ab4ff9b62

max-for-live-public-beta

Will it work with the tryout (demo) version of Live 8?

This is already blowing my mind. I was planning to dive right in and start porting my patches but pluggo being open source makes me want to explore for hours. I'm sold!

Yeah I perked up when I read that too, but I think it may be a slight misunderstanding of what MaxforLive is.

I'm currently inside of the "Space Echo" effect. M4L came with all the old effects/instruments and you can open them by selecting patcher mode. No abstraction or subpatch is locked. Hopefully this isn't a mistake but a gift, given the sharing community ideas behind M4L.

Since there's no such thing as a Max for Live device without an edit button, it's not a mistake. The subset of things originally included in Pluggo that are packaged with Max for Live are, in fact, fully editable in Max for Live, and it was done on purpose.

Is there no way for those of us not planning on using M4L to have access to those pluggo patches? Slightly disappointing for us.

Is there no way for those of us not planning on using M4L to have access to those pluggo patches?  Slightly disappointing for us.


Is this 5.1 beta version also a beta of the standard Max/Msp ?

I.e. don't understand if M4L will be an addition (like a plugin) to the standard Max or not.

Gregory Taylor wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 21:59

I just pulled the trigger on buying Live now Max for Live is finally here - and priced very fairly as well, I must add - so this is really excellent news. Great bonus!

I am really looking forward to using Live as a timeline for Max, and Max as a generative/algorithmic control for Live, and of course the "pluggo" functionality of creating plugins on tracks.

Congratulations on the public beta and imminent release Cycling 74!

o btw, Live does have multichannel output capabilities, right??? If not, Ableton should really include it so we can do our quad, octo, ambisonicly super-spatial things and stuff..

Gregory Taylor wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 21:59Since there's no such thing as a Max for Live device without an edit button, it's not a mistake. The subset of things originally included in Pluggo that are packaged with Max for Live are, in fact, fully editable in Max for Live, and it was done on purpose.

o btw, Live does have multichannel output capabilities, right??? If not, Ableton should really include it so we can do our quad, octo, ambisonicly super-spatial things and stuff.. 

btw, Live does have multichannel output capabilities, right??? If not, Ableton should really include it so we can do our quad, octo, ambisonicly super-spatial things and stuff..

No. At this time, audio is stereo only. There was some kind of voodoo workaround discussed on the Max for Live Beta discussion list that I didn't try, but until the Live application itself supports multichannel output, Max for Live's standard output strategies remain in stereo.

Quote:btw, Live does have multichannel output capabilities, right??? If not, Ableton should really include it so we can do our quad, octo, ambisonicly super-spatial things and stuff..

No. At this time, audio is stereo only. There was some kind of voodoo workaround discussed on the Max for Live Beta discussion list that I didn't try, but until the Live application itself supports multichannel output, Max for Live's standard output strategies remain in stereo.


sfogar wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 13:33

Yes this is the normal Max 5.1 release as well. Max and MFL are one and the same, so go grab it and let us know how your patches go. There are a bunch of new objects in there which came about through MFL development which are all available to regular Max users.

sfogar wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 13:33Please explain...

Mr. Pask is, as usual, spot on. These new devices [and nice they are, too] should be most immediately visible to you in your Object palette, or you can find a listing of the new objects by clicking on the choosing "Max Help" from the help menu, clicking on the "Max for Live" link, and then checking the Reference entry "Objects A-Z." If you're generally interested in getting some more information about Max for Live, the Max for Live link will give you some stuff to ponder.

I don't know where the idea came up that you are working with Pluggo when you use M4L, but that is not the case.

There are similar objects, similarly edited and implemented, but Pluggo's dev is done. Caput. Extinct.

If you want to use it, use __Max for 4.6.x__.

There are similar objects, similarly edited and implemented, but Pluggo's dev is done.  Caput.  Extinct.

The idea came up because we included the source for 40 Pluggo plugs as devices in the latest installer of 5.1, available this morning.

If regular max users want them they can go download the whole deal and have a play with it while the public beta is on.

Gregory Taylor wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 22:47Quote:

if Max devices/instruments/plugs can have more than 2 outputs (output 4 channels to two stereo tracks for example) like VSTi's in Live already can, then it should be possible to use Live's output routing.

so Max for Live is the bottleneck? it does not allow more than 2 outputs for a device?

Gregory Taylor wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 22:47Quote:btw, Live does have multichannel output capabilities, right??? If not, Ableton should really include it so we can do our quad, octo, ambisonicly super-spatial things and stuff..

so Max for Live is the bottleneck? it does not allow more than 2 outputs for a device?


There doesn't appear to be a help file for cverb~.

Might be being stupid, but I can't seem to find the pluggo source in the 5.1 beta install.

The live.objects are pretty cool though.


Go to: Max > support > LivePacks > MaxForLive.alp

After that the Pluggo's should be in the library

It seams that they are not automatically installed

Andrew Pask wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 15:13

Ah, it's a .alp file which is what I was afraid of. It seems that the pluggo guts are only available to Ableton (ie prospective M4L users....) not us regular max users.

Andrew Pask wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 15:13
The idea came up because we included the source for 40 Pluggo plugs as devices in the latest installer of 5.1, available this morning.

Ah, it's a .alp file which is what I was afraid of.  It seems that the pluggo guts are only available to Ableton (ie prospective M4L users....) not us regular max users.

The chucker~ object is the thing at the heart of the buffer shuffler device - one of the M4L "big three." If you've got any questions about what it does, fire up the shuffler [it's got its own Live lesson] and play with it. Then, open up the patch and study it.

Download the public beta and install it. Open the device .amxd files inside of live, copy the source, open a new Max patcher window and paste it in, save it as a Max patch. You'll probably want to modify a few bits here and there, but hey.

Want to see what of the Pluggo stuff has been ported to M4L? Choose Max Help from the Help menu, click on the Max for Live link, click on the Tutorials and Examples link under Getting Started over on the right side, and scroll down to the section on Pluggo for Live.

Quote:Ah, it's a .alp file which is what I was afraid of.  It seems that the pluggo guts are only available to Ableton (ie prospective M4L users....) not us regular max users.

Want to see what of the Pluggo stuff has been ported to M4L? Choose Max Help from the Help menu, click on the Max for Live link, click on the Tutorials and Examples link under Getting Started over on the right side, and scroll down to the section on Pluggo for Live.


sorry for being dense here: the pluggo sources are only accesible if i install live?

i installed max 5.1pb and don´t see any.

the procedure gregory describes (open in live, copy, paste to max):

i installed max 5.1pb and don´t see any.
just a folder: m4l-patches
in which are:
LiveAPI resources
Pluggo for Live resources

the procedure gregory describes (open in live, copy, paste to max):
oh well...i´d call that lame.
(for non-livers like me, that is.)

Sorry for being dense, but this method of getting Pluggo to work without using Live - does it presuppose downloading Ableton Live 8.1?

Because Ableton will only allow demo downloads of version 8.0.9, and their public beta is only available for licenced Live users (which I am not).

So, in short: How would a non-licensed user like myself go about doing this? It doesn't seem possible right now.

(trying to install the "MaxForLive.alp" results in an error message in the Live 8.0.9 demo)

As kochhw and oivindi have said, this is irritating for those of us who don't use Live. It feels like a sly bit of pro-Ableton marketing. I SERIOUSLY hope that Cycling74's priority focus doesn't shift from Max/MSP to favor M4l.

I'm aware that starting a bitchy thread is unhelpful, so I'll stop now.

As kochhw and oivindi have said, this is irritating for those of us who don't use Live.  It feels like a sly bit of pro-Ableton marketing.  I SERIOUSLY hope that Cycling74's priority focus doesn't shift from Max/MSP to favor M4l.

kjg wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 14:28Gregory Taylor wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 22:47Quote:

You should have a look at live's "External Audio Device".

kjg wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 14:28Gregory Taylor wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 22:47Quote:btw, Live does have multichannel output capabilities, right??? If not, Ableton should really include it so we can do our quad, octo, ambisonicly super-spatial things and stuff..

mzed wrote on Thu, 05 November 2009 19:34

thanks for the reply. since i don't own live yet, i can't look at max for live beta.

i'm considering buying live so i can use it combined with max. no multichannel possibilities would be a huge downer imho.

playing back a mono soundfile and then wanting to pan it to say 4 or 8 speakers is not that strange is it?

thanks again for the tip. i'll look at it.

thanks for the reply. since i don't own live yet, i can't look at max for live beta.
i'm considering buying live so i can use it combined with max. no multichannel possibilities would be a huge downer imho.

thanks again for the tip. i'll look at it.


i'm just using max atm, never used live before

though live.step is really quite good, i was still kind of disappointed with it. what about chords man? obviously its not built for that, but its like its almost there!

good luck with the release anyway, i'm sure there'll be great things that'll come from it 

live.step can have up to 16 sequences at once which can make quite dense chords 

i know but you have to flip between sequence numbers, you can't actually see the chord, of course there are workarounds but thats kind of my point, there always has to be a workaround. of course live users have their standard piano roll so this isn't a big deal for them, and hooking up another DAW to receive MIDI isn't that hard, i guess i just had it in my mind it would be a standard piano roll type object, which for me would be far less rigid and still allow for what you have done with live.step.

i have had a play with it and its really good at what its for and i commend the developers on that, however musically i found myself imagining another sequence that was more lazy and off beat to complement what i had, then i thought, 'now i have to worry about swing' whereas i wouldn't have to with a normal piano roll, i'd just drag my note wherever i wanted. sorry to moan, but i would have really really really loved that type of usability 

having the same problem - which version of Live does one need to run this beta.

I can't see any Max4Live devices and get an error when trying to install the the Max4Live live pack???

What a disappointment - I can't wait to buy it when it's out, but now I wanna have a play too

having the same problem - which version of Live does one need to run this beta. 

What a disappointment - I can't wait to buy it when it's out, but now I wanna have a play too


Excelent work atcycling&ableton crew. already having some great fun with it.

brief question , at launch live8.1 beta says it will expire on november 7th, which means the public beta was actually out for a very short period of time , or does it mean there will be another beta release before the final version'scommercial release ?

Excelent work atcycling&ableton crew. already having some great fun with it.
brief question , at launch live8.1 beta says it will expire on november 7th, which means the public beta was actually out for a very short period of time , or does it mean there will be another beta release before the final version'scommercial release ?


Big 'Thanks!' to C74 and Ableton crew for the beta, both public and private, as well as porting the Pluggos to M4L -- this is quite a surprise and treat.

timlloyd wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 22:09

This depends on the license we get for the pluggo part. I guess its not free. 

On the other hand its not copy protected If you find someone with a running Live beta, you'd at least be able to look at the patch... 

I guess its a bit like "If you are connected, you get it, if not get connected by buying Live or M4L...

timlloyd wrote on Wed, 04 November 2009 22:09Is there no way for those of us not planning on using M4L to have access to those pluggo patches?  Slightly disappointing for us.

This depends on the license we get for the pluggo part. I guess its not free. 
On the other hand its not copy protected If you find someone with a running Live beta, you'd at least be able to look at the patch... 
I guess its a bit like "If you are connected, you get it, if not get connected by buying Live or M4L...

Max for Live Public Beta