"Max for Live"?

Jan 15, 2009 at 8:34am

"Max for Live"?

Interview with the CEO of Ableton:

http://www.akaipro.com/gerhardinterview

I really hope this is what it seems like.

#41693
Jan 15, 2009 at 10:13am

That’s what I want:

[Moderator's note: I changed this inline patch into an attachment so one didn't have to scroll all the way down the screen to read the next message.]

#148598
Jan 15, 2009 at 10:38am

The press conference is today at 10am Pacific Time. Stay tuned…

jb

#148599
Jan 15, 2009 at 11:38am

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 03:38
—————————————————-
> The press conference is today at 10am Pacific Time. Stay tuned…
>
> jb
—————————————————-

sure will! sounds like i ll finally be able to integrate my monome and controllers with live 100% like i want m too :)

#148600
Jan 15, 2009 at 3:07pm

Is it possible to watch this live?

#148601
Jan 15, 2009 at 4:22pm

Well, I have to admit. That would be pretty bad ass…
Up to this point I didn’t have much reason to get live. Being able
to load patcher files in Live would be fantastic!

#148602
Jan 15, 2009 at 5:28pm

Sorry, my info was bad. The press conference is at _11am_, not 10. And I don’t think there’s a live stream. I suspect it will be quickly edited and posted to the Ableton site afterwards, though.

jb

#148603
Jan 15, 2009 at 5:37pm

#148604
Jan 15, 2009 at 5:40pm

Ach you people are killing me! I have to work to do!

#148605
Jan 15, 2009 at 6:04pm

srsly! I don’t know if i can take another hour of this!

#148606
Jan 15, 2009 at 6:52pm

c74 homepage updated: http://www.cycling74.com/

#148607
Jan 15, 2009 at 7:04pm

It’s seldom something turns out exactly the way you imagined it. Cheers to the folks at C74 for all your hard work!

My big question:

Is Max for Live just a bridge between Max and Live? In other words do you have to own Max and Live for Max for Live to work or will it be like a “mini-Max” inside Live?

#148608
Jan 15, 2009 at 7:10pm

Hmmmm interesting. It sounds like a great improvement for Live
users, basically the ability to customize and create devices.
But how does that benefit me the Max user? Will I be able to
load my patcher made in Max5 as a device in Live8? The press
release does not clarify this.

#148609
Jan 15, 2009 at 7:45pm

Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 12:10
—————————————————-
> Hmmmm interesting. It sounds like a great improvement for Live
> users, basically the ability to customize and create devices.
> But how does that benefit me the Max user? Will I be able to
> load my patcher made in Max5 as a device in Live8? The press
> release does not clarify this.
—————————————————-

That’s exactly what you can do, with edit-in-place too.

This is AWESOME.

#148610
Jan 15, 2009 at 7:50pm

opnions of awesomeness seconded.

this seem sto be very very serious business indeed.

I will only know for sure how perfect it is for me after being able to have a proper test run, but atm both programs are highly useful for me, and to have an intelligent dialogue between the 2. well, it looks like it’s gonna be all kinds of beautiful.

#148611
Jan 15, 2009 at 8:05pm

No, the info released does not say you can open Max5 patches
in Live. It says you can create devices with the objects
that come with “Max for Live” and customize those. It sounds
like “Max for Live” is a subset of Max5.

You Cycling folk feel free to correct me. I hope I am wrong
because such a thing would be my timeline dreams come true…

#148612
Jan 15, 2009 at 8:17pm

I hope you can use other UI object than the once that are “Live” objects. Especially the stuff like the matrix object, which I believe there is no substitute for in the Live enviroment.

#148613
Jan 15, 2009 at 8:20pm

Quote: Veqtor wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 14:17
—————————————————-
> I hope you can use other UI object than the once that are “Live” objects. Especially the stuff like the matrix object, which I believe there is no substitute for in the Live enviroment.
—————————————————-

The preview shows the default Max knob being used in a Live device so it seems like you can.

#148614
Jan 15, 2009 at 8:22pm

this is absolutely fantastic! my integration of live, max and hardware controllers is about to make a huge leap…

check http://www.ableton.com/extend for info (the guy in the video is so hilariously german :D)

too bad it takes both payed upgrades for live 8 + the max for live add-on. would have been neat if it was free to people who own max already.

Quote:

Attention Max users!

The equation works both ways: If you already own Max, Max for Live provides straightforward tools for controlling Live from your Max environment. Maybe you want to exploit Live’s timeline, or work some magic with the Session View—it’s up to you. If you own Max 5, this will be your editing environment when you open up a Max for Live device. Please note, though, that Max for Live doesn’t include a version of Live.

#148615
Jan 15, 2009 at 8:24pm

Also, I hope that you can lock Max for Live objects, so that people will be developing advanced devices that can be sold to Live users, even if they don’t own Max for Live…

#148616
Jan 15, 2009 at 8:39pm

this will solve all world problems!

jezus i thought the fact i learned max/msp was my answer to life but this will keep me going for the next 6!

#148617
Jan 15, 2009 at 8:46pm

This looks great. I wonder if we can use custom externals in Live? That would be incredible.

#148618
Jan 15, 2009 at 8:50pm

I really hope this isnt being prioritised over Pluggo for MAX5…

#148619
Jan 15, 2009 at 8:50pm

Huzzah!

Congrats and Thanks to all involved! My two favorite pieces of music software are now married in the most harmonious of ways!

I have been working on alot of pluggos and control interfaces in max for use in/with live and I am so excited to adapt them.

Can’t wait to hear more about object support and of course try it out.

Wow.

#148620
Jan 15, 2009 at 9:37pm

i’m sure it’s early to ask this, however, is i’m a live user interesting in MAx for Live is there are reason i should upgrade my old max license to max 5, or should i just save my money and use it to buy Max for Live?

what do i get for upgrading to Live 8 and MAx for Live and Max 5?

#148621
Jan 15, 2009 at 9:54pm

I have to say, this is probably the biggest news for electronic musicians I’ve heard in a long time. I cannot even begin to say how excited I am for this.

What I’m really interested to know is if there will also be Jitter functionality, so that we can also turn Live into the ultimate VJ device…

#148622
Jan 15, 2009 at 10:06pm

Robert Henke of Ableton said “Max = MaxMSP/Jitter” in the recent
discussions on their forum. Subject to change, I reckon, but that’s my
guess too – my rig would be f*cked without it, and I’m no VJ…

Andreas

Michael Hetrick skrev:
> I have to say, this is probably the biggest news for electronic musicians I’ve heard in a long time. I cannot even begin to say how excited I am for this.
>
> What I’m really interested to know is if there will also be Jitter functionality, so that we can also turn Live into the ultimate VJ device…
>

#148623
Jan 15, 2009 at 11:16pm

#148624
Jan 16, 2009 at 12:44am

This will change things from “everyone is a DJ” to “everyone is a max programmer”. The world is about to get a lot more fun.

#148625
Jan 16, 2009 at 12:49am

i also want to know what the deal is re: money

if i own max 5 already does that mean i can automatically use max inside of live 8?

#148626
Jan 16, 2009 at 12:56am

Quote: James Drake wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 00:49
—————————————————-
> i also want to know what the deal is re: money
>
> if i own max 5 already does that mean i can automatically use max inside of live 8?
—————————————————-

Quoting from the press release:

“Available as an add-on product to Ableton’s newly announced Live 8…”

I would assume that means we have to purchase an add-on for Live…

#148627
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:02am

Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 21:05
—————————————————-
> No, the info released does not say you can open Max5 patches
> in Live. It says you can create devices with the objects
> that come with “Max for Live” and customize those. It sounds
> like “Max for Live” is a subset of Max5.
>
> You Cycling folk feel free to correct me. I hope I am wrong
> because such a thing would be my timeline dreams come true…
—————————————————-

Max for Live is, well, a superset of Max. :) MaxMSPJitter + special features for Live integration

If you want to create a Max Device from a Max patch, you can currently copy and paste the main patcher into an empty device. We’ll probably offer a simple converter at some point, as well.

Anyway, it’s all of Max + the integration layer. I’m not really sure what you’re worried about.

jb

#148628
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:02am

but:

read paragraph “Attention Max users!”

http://www.ableton.com/extend

it’s not really clear.

#148629
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:03am

That’s correct. If you own Max, you still need to purchase a) Live 8 and b) the Max for Live feature for Live 8. Prices are not yet announced, but if you already own Max (and Live), it won’t break your bank.

jb

Quote: Brennon Bortz wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 01:56
—————————————————-
> Quote: James Drake wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 00:49
> —————————————————-
> > i also want to know what the deal is re: money
> >
> > if i own max 5 already does that mean i can automatically use max inside of live 8?
> —————————————————-
>
> Quoting from the press release:
>
> “Available as an add-on product to Ableton’s newly announced Live 8…”
>
> I would assume that means we have to purchase an add-on for Live…
—————————————————-

#148630
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:08am

Ok so will editing still happen in Max the application or will editing be possible from within Live? The video would suggest yes, but it’s hard to tell whether Max is just opened in the background.

#148631
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:11am

When you hit the edit button on your device, Max (or the Max in Live Editor) comes to the front, where you edit your device in Max fashion. While this is happening, Live-based audio and MIDI are still being routed to and from the patch you are editing in Max — that is, you can hear what you are doing in Max. When you save and close the device in Max, you can return to Live and work with the updated device’s interface from the Live device chain.

So, Live is where you “use” the device, Max is where you edit.

jb

Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:08
—————————————————-
> Ok so will editing still happen in Max the application or will editing be possible from within Live? The video would suggest yes, but it’s hard to tell whether Max is just opened in the background.
—————————————————-

#148632
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:14am

>
> Max for Live is, well, a superset of Max. :) MaxMSPJitter + special features for Live integration
>

Cool. So javascript, mxj, C externals too?

#148633
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:14am

Ah, so Non-Max users should be able to buy Max for Live and use devices others have made correct? Sort of a Runtime within live? But without Max there’s no way to create.

#148634
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:16am

Yes, yes, yes. C externals create portability issues, of course, but nothing that would surprise you if you work with collectives.

jb

Quote: Adam Murray wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:14
—————————————————-
> >
> > Max for Live is, well, a superset of Max. :) MaxMSPJitter + special features for Live integration
> >
>
> Cool. So javascript, mxj, C externals too?
—————————————————-

#148635
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:20am

This is going to kick ass :D

#148636
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:27am

Max for Live comes with a “Max Editor” (name tba), which is essentially a full install of Max with no built-in support for audio or midi communication — audio and midi get in and out of the Editor via Live. If you own Max, you can use “normal Max” for your “normal Max stuff” and either Max or the “Max Editor”, as you prefer, for editing Max Devices from Live.

So purchasing Max for Live essentially enables the Edit Button on the Max Device. If you don’t own the full version of Max, the only Max editing you’ll do is in the context of Live.

jb

Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:14
—————————————————-
> Ah, so Non-Max users should be able to buy Max for Live and use devices others have made correct? Sort of a Runtime within live? But without Max there’s no way to create.
—————————————————-

#148637
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:32am

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 19:27
—————————————————-
> Max for Live comes with a “Max Editor” (name tba), which is essentially a full install of Max with no built-in support for audio or midi communication — audio and midi get in and out of the Editor via Live. If you own Max, you can use “normal Max” for your “normal Max stuff” and either Max or the “Max Editor”, as you prefer, for editing Max Devices from Live.
>
> So purchasing Max for Live essentially enables the Edit Button on the Max Device. If you don’t own the full version of Max, the only Max editing you’ll do is in the context of Live.
>
> jb
>
> Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:14
> —————————————————-
> > Ah, so Non-Max users should be able to buy Max for Live and use devices others have made correct? Sort of a Runtime within live? But without Max there’s no way to create.
> —————————————————-
>
>
—————————————————-

I see, so Max for Live devices will be available to anyone then. My god you guys have just created a new industry.

#148638
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:33am

Ahhh thats what I wanted to hear. Fantastic, finally a sequencing
environment integrated with Max. Joy! Looks like I am buying
Live for sure.

But please please don’t forget pluggo!

#148639
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:39am

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 01:27
—————————————————-
> So purchasing Max for Live essentially enables the Edit Button on the Max Device. If you don’t own the full version of Max, the only Max editing you’ll do is in the context of Live.
>
> jb

so if you don’t buy the max for live addon, you can still run your max patches in live, just can’t edit them?

#148640
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:40am

Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:32
—————————————————-
> I see, so Max for Live devices will be available to anyone then. My god you guys have just created a new industry.
—————————————————-

Well, take that with a grain of salt. I never pay close enough attention during the marketing discussions. It may be that you need the Max in Live add-in to use the devices at all (which includes editing). I’ll provide a more definitive answer after I’ve checked in with someone who spends more time thinking about that stuff…

jb

#148641
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:42am

Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:33
—————————————————-
> But please please don’t forget pluggo!
—————————————————-

Pluggo hasn’t been forgotten. And, as Stefan noted, a lot of the work we’ve done to get Max for Live working over the past couple of years is directly applicable to some potential version of Pluggo for Max 5 in the future. Max for Live will be released first, though. I can’t offer any specific information about the ifs or whens of a Pluggo release. Thanks for bearing with!

jb

#148642
Jan 16, 2009 at 2:08am

OK, here’s the “definitive answer”:

Users cannot use Max Devices without installing Max, obviously. Once Max is installed, they can use them, but they have to put Live into demo mode, if they don’t own Max for Live.

So maybe this is not exactly what you were hoping for, but you can probably understand why it is going to work this way.

jb

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:40
—————————————————-
> Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:32
> —————————————————-
> > I see, so Max for Live devices will be available to anyone then. My god you guys have just created a new industry.
> —————————————————-
>
> Well, take that with a grain of salt. I never pay close enough attention during the marketing discussions. It may be that you need the Max in Live add-in to use the devices at all (which includes editing). I’ll provide a more definitive answer after I’ve checked in with someone who spends more time thinking about that stuff…
>
> jb
—————————————————-

#148643
Jan 16, 2009 at 2:23am

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 20:08
—————————————————-
> OK, here’s the “definitive answer”:
>
> Users cannot use Max Devices without installing Max, obviously. Once Max is installed, they can use them, but they have to put Live into demo mode, if they don’t own Max for Live.
>
> So maybe this is not exactly what you were hoping for, but you can probably understand why it is going to work this way.
>
> jb
>
> Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:40
> —————————————————-
> > Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 02:32
> > —————————————————-
> > > I see, so Max for Live devices will be available to anyone then. My god you guys have just created a new industry.
> > —————————————————-
—————————————————-

Ok so basically none of it will work without both Max 5 and Live 8 installed?

I’m not so much hoping as trying to clear up what we’re dealing with here. I use both and I’m seriously licking my chops over all of this. Thanks Jeremy for taking the time to clarify all this.

#148644
Jan 16, 2009 at 2:31am

Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:23
—————————————————-
> Ok so basically none of it will work without both Max 5 and Live 8 installed?
>
> I’m not so much hoping as trying to clear up what we’re dealing with here. I use both and I’m seriously licking my chops over all of this. Thanks Jeremy for taking the time to clarify all this.
>
—————————————————-

Think of it this way. Max for Live is a) a full install of Max + b) a full install of Live + c) the “bridge” code so that a) knows how to talk to b). You will always need Live for this to work (Max for Live is a _Live_ addon). You don’t need to own MaxMSP to use/edit in Max for Live (although it needs to be installed for its built-in objects, shared libraries, etc.) — in this case the Editor, with no audio/midi capabilities of its own, is used for all editing, and editing can only happen within a Live context. If you own MaxMSP, as well, you can use the normal MaxMSP app as your editor, and will be able to use MaxMSP as normal for non-Live editing, audio and MIDI communication, etc.

Does that make sense?

jb

#148645
Jan 16, 2009 at 2:37am

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 20:31
—————————————————-
> Quote: stringtapper wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:23
> —————————————————-
> > Ok so basically none of it will work without both Max 5 and Live 8 installed?
> >
> > I’m not so much hoping as trying to clear up what we’re dealing with here. I use both and I’m seriously licking my chops over all of this. Thanks Jeremy for taking the time to clarify all this.
> >
> —————————————————-
>
> Think of it this way. Max for Live is a) a full install of Max + b) a full install of Live + c) the “bridge” code so that a) knows how to talk to b). You will always need Live for this to work (Max for Live is a _Live_ addon). You don’t need to own MaxMSP to use/edit in Max for Live (although it needs to be installed for its built-in objects, shared libraries, etc.) — in this case the Editor, with no audio/midi capabilities of its own, is used for all editing, and editing can only happen within a Live context. If you own MaxMSP, as well, you can use the normal MaxMSP app as your editor, and will be able to use MaxMSP as normal for non-Live editing, audio and MIDI communication, etc.
>
> Does that make sense?
>
> jb
—————————————————-

Got it!

#148646
Jan 16, 2009 at 2:45am

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:31
—————————————————-
> Think of it this way. Max for Live is a) a full install of Max +
> b) a full install of Live + c) the “bridge” code so that
> a) knows how to talk to b).
>
> Does that make sense?
—————————————————-

That makes sense, absolutely!
Thanks Jeremy for these extra explanations.

Btw, what one could expect about device’s audio performances in terms of speed?

Cheerio,
Philippe

#148647
Jan 16, 2009 at 2:52am

Jeremy, congrats on your fantastic work! So I think i understand you correctly. If i own Max 4.6 and was thinking of upgrading to 5 however i’ll most likely never use Max outside of Live again, then it’s better to just save my money and buy the Max for live addon. as it’s a full version of Max 5 and the only limits are that it only works while in Live.

I only need the MAx 5 upgrade license if I ever plan to program outside of Live?

#148648
Jan 16, 2009 at 3:07am

Quote: Ben Casey wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:52
—————————————————-
> Jeremy, congrats on your fantastic work! So I think i understand you correctly. If i own Max 4.6 and was thinking of upgrading to 5 however i’ll most likely never use Max outside of Live again, then it’s better to just save my money and buy the Max for live addon. as it’s a full version of Max 5 and the only limits are that it only works while in Live.
>
> I only need the MAx 5 upgrade license if I ever plan to program outside of Live?
—————————————————-

That is correct.

jb

#148649
Jan 16, 2009 at 3:17am

Thanks, now the only question is, can i wait that long to play with Max 5. :)

#148650
Jan 16, 2009 at 3:35am

Hey, Jeremy and C74 and Ableton, congratulations on the awesome masterpiece! (and best of luck from here to the release!)

Prost!

#148651
Jan 16, 2009 at 4:58am

How about this, might be a stretch: any word on Max For Live
educational discounts? The Max 5 ed. discount is so good that I just
don’t want to give that up.

On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Ben Casey wrote:
>
> Jeremy, congrats on your fantastic work! So I think i understand you correctly. If i own Max 4.6 and was thinking of upgrading to 5 however i’ll most likely never use Max outside of Live again, then it’s better to just save my money and buy the Max for live addon. as it’s a full version of Max 5 and the only limits are that it only works while in Live.
>
> I only need the MAx 5 upgrade license if I ever plan to program outside of Live?
>

#148652
Jan 16, 2009 at 6:27am

#148653
Jan 16, 2009 at 9:27am

congratulations for maxforlive – finally i dont have to feel bad for
using live anymore!
and we get numberboxes with real corners – now i can make friends with
max5 ;)
cant wait to get my hands on this…

p

http://pure.test.at
http://www.myspace.com/pvre
http://www.heartchamberorchestra.org

http://www.trblnc.org

#148654
Jan 16, 2009 at 10:36am

On 16 Jan 2009, at 02:31, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:

> Does that make sense?

I know you’re going to be sick of questions soon (if not already):
here’s mine.

Ableton’s video suggests that Max is available inside Live as an
editor extension so that instruments embedded in Live project files
can be altered and saved in place. Said project files can then be
shared, and (presumably) instruments can be moved between projects in
the manner that tracks (with instruments) can be dragged between
projects at the moment.

How does this square with Max’s orientation to a file system, with
search paths, named sub-patchers, and a whole chunk of API dedicated
to locating files and normalising filenames? If Max for Live cannot
handle poly~ then it becomes a bit awkward to build polysynths for it
- but poly~ has something of a dependency on file lookup. Ditto the
FFT stuff, replicated bpatchers, and so on.

– N.

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
http://www.cassiel.com
http://www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
http://www.last.fm/music/cassiel
http://www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
http://www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
http://www.loadbang.net

#148655
Jan 16, 2009 at 10:44am

Quote: nick rothwell / cassiel wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:36
—————————————————-
> On 16 Jan 2009, at 02:31, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
>
> > Does that make sense?
>
> I know you’re going to be sick of questions soon (if not already):
> here’s mine.
>
> Ableton’s video suggests that Max is available inside Live as an
> editor extension so that instruments embedded in Live project files
> can be altered and saved in place. Said project files can then be
> shared, and (presumably) instruments can be moved between projects in
> the manner that tracks (with instruments) can be dragged between
> projects at the moment.
>
> How does this square with Max’s orientation to a file system, with
> search paths, named sub-patchers, and a whole chunk of API dedicated
> to locating files and normalising filenames? If Max for Live cannot
> handle poly~ then it becomes a bit awkward to build polysynths for it
> – but poly~ has something of a dependency on file lookup. Ditto the
> FFT stuff, replicated bpatchers, and so on.
—————————————————-

As long as it’s acknowledged that we sleep sometimes, I don’t think there’s a problem! :)

Without going into great detail about what it is or how it works, we have a solution for dealing with ‘project management’ and search paths which will minimize the portability problems. Vague and reassuring enough?

jb

#148656
Jan 16, 2009 at 10:50am

On 16 Jan 2009, at 10:44, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:

> Without going into great detail about what it is or how it works, we
> have a solution for dealing with ‘project management’ and search
> paths which will minimize the portability problems. Vague and
> reassuring enough?

Yes – I can indeed confirm that I feel vaguely reassured.

Great piece of work, by the way.

– N.

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
http://www.cassiel.com
http://www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
http://www.last.fm/music/cassiel
http://www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
http://www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
http://www.loadbang.net

#148657
Jan 16, 2009 at 11:06am

#148658
Jan 16, 2009 at 11:20am

Quote: f.e wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 12:06
—————————————————-
> Awesome ! Thanks for the hard work ! It’s Christmas in January.
>
> A couple of questions in order to understand if we will definitely be
> able to compose music using Live as a timeline :
>
> 1 – how do a Max based step sequencer interact with a Live track in the
> timeline ? do we see the notes / patterns created with it on a Live midi
> track ? or does it work like FL Studio when it’s loaded as a plugin in a
> host ?
> 2 – do Live have a text based track that could send message to a Max patch ?
—————————————————-

1) Think of Live as being ‘the hardware’ which sits behind “midiin”, “midiout”, “plugin~” and “plugout~”. If you build a step sequencer instrument for Live (as we have), timing info comes in (via the ITM system — the “transport” object is locked to the Live transport), MIDI comes in from Live via “notein” or whatever, and your Device responds as you have programmed it. If you define note sequences in the Device, you can use several methods — Live presets are probably the best one — to save and restore these. If you really wanted to create a new MIDI clip with the note content you’ve defined in your Device, this will also be possible using the Live API objects (live.path, live.object, live.observer), but that wouldn’t be the simplest of solutions.

2) No, Live sends MIDI, audio and timing data to your patch. If you want your patch to receive a message at 3.4.142, have it respond to that time, or have it respond to a MIDI message which arrives then in some fashion.

jb

#148659
Jan 16, 2009 at 11:47am

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 20:07
—————————————————-
> Quote: Ben Casey wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:52
> —————————————————-
> > Jeremy, congrats on your fantastic work! So I think i understand you correctly. If i own Max 4.6 and was thinking of upgrading to 5 however i’ll most likely never use Max outside of Live again, then it’s better to just save my money and buy the Max for live addon. as it’s a full version of Max 5 and the only limits are that it only works while in Live.
> >
> > I only need the MAx 5 upgrade license if I ever plan to program outside of Live?
> —————————————————-
>
> That is correct.
>
> jb
—————————————————-

I have Max/MSP but will also only use it within Live,

Should I sell my Max/MSP lisence?

Cheers

#148660
Jan 16, 2009 at 11:56am

Quote: marlon brando wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 12:47
—————————————————-
> Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Thu, 15 January 2009 20:07
> —————————————————-
> > Quote: Ben Casey wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 03:52
> > —————————————————-
> > > Jeremy, congrats on your fantastic work! So I think i understand you correctly. If i own Max 4.6 and was thinking of upgrading to 5 however i’ll most likely never use Max outside of Live again, then it’s better to just save my money and buy the Max for live addon. as it’s a full version of Max 5 and the only limits are that it only works while in Live.
> > >
> > > I only need the MAx 5 upgrade license if I ever plan to program outside of Live?
> > —————————————————-
> >
> > That is correct.
> >
> > jb
> —————————————————-
>
> I have Max/MSP but will also only use it within Live,
>
> Should I sell my Max/MSP lisence?
>
>
> Cheers
—————————————————-

That’s between you and your spiritual advisor.

jb

#148661
Jan 16, 2009 at 12:30pm

Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for all the info you are feeding to us..

I’ve got just one quick question.

Would it be possible to drag a audio clip into a buffer located in a
MaxforLive device?
That would be great for all granular and beatslicing, etc stuff….

Cheers,

Wilco

#148662
Jan 16, 2009 at 12:48pm

There’s an object called live.drop intendeed for that purpose.

ej

On 16 janv. 09, at 13:30, wilco alkema wrote:

> Hi Jeremy,
>
> Thanks for all the info you are feeding to us..
>
> I’ve got just one quick question.
>
> Would it be possible to drag a audio clip into a buffer located in a
> MaxforLive device?
> That would be great for all granular and beatslicing, etc stuff….
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Wilco
>
>

#148663
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:16pm

Great,this is great in both ways, Max for Live and Live for Max.
My questions are many, from the fact that it looks like a new instrument definition for example, to more practical ones:

1) Are send and receives objects going to be global, which means that I could have timing data/signals/whatever shared amongst Max for Live Devices for example, and a Max patch running?For example allowing me to bypass MIDI sync signals?
Or will it be an “only in Live” thing?

2) Will certain objects such as hi be available directly in the Live environment, and the possibility of using them directly inside a Live project?

, wha so many!!!

Any way I make my compliments, and I cannot wait too long, as many I use both extensively and I am burning for it!

thanks!

#148664
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:23pm

Allright… Cool!

All we have to do now is wait for a releasedate ;)

BTW if there are people like me wanting to know how much the APC40
controller is going to cost. I’ve just seen in a sonicstate.com video that
the expected price is 399 euro/dollar and is released in may.

Wilco

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Emmanuel Jourdan
> wrote:

> There’s an object called live.drop intendeed for that purpose.
>
> ej
>
>
> On 16 janv. 09, at 13:30, wilco alkema wrote:
>
> Hi Jeremy,
>>
>> Thanks for all the info you are feeding to us..
>>
>> I’ve got just one quick question.
>>
>> Would it be possible to drag a audio clip into a buffer located in a
>> MaxforLive device?
>> That would be great for all granular and beatslicing, etc stuff….
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>> Wilco
>>
>>
>>
>

#148665
Jan 16, 2009 at 1:31pm

Quote: Jabbo wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 14:16
—————————————————-
> Great,this is great in both ways, Max for Live and Live for Max.
> My questions are many, from the fact that it looks like a new instrument definition for example, to more practical ones:
>
> 1) Are send and receives objects going to be global, which means that I could have timing data/signals/whatever shared amongst Max for Live Devices for example, and a Max patch running?For example allowing me to bypass MIDI sync signals?
> Or will it be an “only in Live” thing?

Live (+ any hosted libraries, incl. M4L) and Max are two separate processes and don’t share memory. That means that things like send and receive will NOT work for communication between Live and Max. Naturally, send and receive work fine within the Max Device context, though — devices can conceivably talk to one another, although if you’ve ever tried that in Pluggo, you probably know that there are caveats. OTOH, you can send network signals (udpsend/udpreceive, for instance) between processes…

> 2) Will certain objects such as hi be available directly in the Live environment, and the possibility of using them directly inside a Live project?

I haven’t tested this specifically, but there’s no reason why it wouldn’t work.

jb

#148666
Jan 16, 2009 at 2:36pm

this looks brill!!!

will you be able to use jitter in side live?,
if this is the case it will be the best news of all time,
but either way it will be the best

mint

#148667
Jan 16, 2009 at 2:37pm

Quote: strimbob wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 15:36
—————————————————-
> this looks brill!!!
>
> will you be able to use jitter in side live?,
> if this is the case it will be the best news of all time,
> but either way it will be the best
>
> mint
—————————————————-

yes.

jb

#148668
Jan 16, 2009 at 2:45pm

wow!!!! you have enable so many different types of practice!

#148669
Jan 16, 2009 at 4:20pm

I think one of the best (and simplest) things about this is that we can now
patch live without the audio clipping in and out with each signal patch
chord. A huge leap for live Maxing.

Cheers,

Carey

#148670
Jan 16, 2009 at 5:07pm

thanks, jb – i know all of us are really excited about this and your clarification is really helping.

what about using send and receive between different patches on different tracks in live? as long as everything is within the Max For Live environment, will that type of communication work?

#148671
Jan 16, 2009 at 5:13pm

Quote: waveplant wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 18:07
—————————————————-
> thanks, jb – i know all of us are really excited about this and your clarification is really helping.
>
> what about using send and receive between different patches on different tracks in live? as long as everything is within the Max For Live environment, will that type of communication work?
>
>
—————————————————-

Sure, that will work. If you’ve ever tried something like that in Pluggo, you’ll know that there can be unexpected behavior as a result (think about it: Live has, internally, some notion of a signal chain and send and receive can be used to circumvent the calculated order of operations in some cases, leading to unexpected results. I seem to remember that there can be latency issues when using send and receive in Pluggo, but that problem may not apply in M4L (we’ve made some improvements to the way multiple devices are scheduled)).

Anyway, I use Pluggo here only as a ballpark reference. M4L has much, much more to it than Pluggo.

jb

jb

#148672
Jan 16, 2009 at 5:26pm

I guess, the question is whether you want to do that (even if it is possible).

The whole world is suddenly becoming not just more powerful but also more complex, and at the end of the day, devices are still devices plugged into and interacting with a conductor getting fed information from him (and responding).

I guess, it will take alot of time to master that new complexity even without randomly interconnected devices…but then again, go ahead ;-)

I am interested in the initial stability of that huge thing….

By the way, jeremy, not sure whether this was asked before, do you know about OSC support for Live 8 ? understanding you sitting here in Berlin :-)

#148673
Jan 16, 2009 at 5:29pm

Quote: monohusche wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 18:26
—————————————————-
> By the way, jeremy, not sure whether this was asked before, do you know about OSC support for Live 8 ? understanding you sitting here in Berlin :-)
—————————————————-

Whatever I might know goes with me to my grave until such time as there has been a feature announcement confirming or denying said knowledge.

You can certainly use OSC in Max for Live, though.

jb

#148674
Jan 16, 2009 at 5:30pm

Just to clarify, I think that Jeremy is talking about send~ and
receive~ for signals. Send & receive (control) just work fine between
several Live devices that are put in several Live tracks, just like
between two different patches in Max – if that is what you were
wondering about.

_M

On 16 janv. 09, at 18:13, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:

>
> Quote: waveplant wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 18:07
> —————————————————-
>> thanks, jb – i know all of us are really excited about this and
>> your clarification is really helping.
>>
>> what about using send and receive between different patches on
>> different tracks in live? as long as everything is within the Max
>> For Live environment, will that type of communication work?
>>
>>
> —————————————————-
>
> Sure, that will work. If you’ve ever tried something like that in
> Pluggo, you’ll know that there can be unexpected behavior as a
> result (think about it: Live has, internally, some notion of a
> signal chain and send and receive can be used to circumvent the
> calculated order of operations in some cases, leading to unexpected
> results. I seem to remember that there can be latency issues when
> using send and receive in Pluggo, but that problem may not apply in
> M4L (we’ve made some improvements to the way multiple devices are
> scheduled)).
>
> Anyway, I use Pluggo here only as a ballpark reference. M4L has
> much, much more to it than Pluggo.
>
> jb

#148675
Jan 16, 2009 at 5:35pm

it is indeed – thanks, and sorry for not being more specific.

Quote: manuel wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:30
—————————————————-
> Just to clarify, I think that Jeremy is talking about send~ and
> receive~ for signals. Send & receive (control) just work fine between
> several Live devices that are put in several Live tracks, just like
> between two different patches in Max – if that is what you were
> wondering about.
>
> _M
>
>
> On 16 janv. 09, at 18:13, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
>
> >
> > Quote: waveplant wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 18:07
> > —————————————————-
> >> thanks, jb – i know all of us are really excited about this and
> >> your clarification is really helping.
> >>
> >> what about using send and receive between different patches on
> >> different tracks in live? as long as everything is within the Max
> >> For Live environment, will that type of communication work?
> >>
> >>
> > —————————————————-
> >
> > Sure, that will work. If you’ve ever tried something like that in
> > Pluggo, you’ll know that there can be unexpected behavior as a
> > result (think about it: Live has, internally, some notion of a
> > signal chain and send and receive can be used to circumvent the
> > calculated order of operations in some cases, leading to unexpected
> > results. I seem to remember that there can be latency issues when
> > using send and receive in Pluggo, but that problem may not apply in
> > M4L (we’ve made some improvements to the way multiple devices are
> > scheduled)).
> >
> > Anyway, I use Pluggo here only as a ballpark reference. M4L has
> > much, much more to it than Pluggo.
> >
> > jb
>
>
—————————————————-

#148676
Jan 16, 2009 at 5:41pm

wow, this looks pretty incredible. almost makes me want to switch over from cubase to live, but its just too different :P

this kind of integration is great though

#148677
Jan 16, 2009 at 5:57pm

Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
> Quote: strimbob wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 15:36
> —————————————————-
>
>> this looks brill!!!
>>
>> will you be able to use jitter in side live?,
>> if this is the case it will be the best news of all time,
>> but either way it will be the best
>>
>> mint
>>
> —————————————————-
>
>
> yes.
>
> jb
>
oooh…

http://pure.test.at
http://www.myspace.com/pvre
http://www.heartchamberorchestra.org

http://www.trblnc.org

#148678
Jan 16, 2009 at 6:02pm

One question thats been buggin me is that I own Live (not 8 but will upgrade once its out) and I own Max5.

So in order to use Max5 in Live I would need to purchase the “Max for Live” add on… If thats the case will there be any reduction in price for the “Max for Live” add on for owners of Max 5? Seeing that people who just buy “Max for Live” get the upgrade price option for a full version of Max5?

#148679
Jan 16, 2009 at 6:05pm

Let me be your spiritual advisor. As Max licenses are non-transferrable, you would be effectively disabling the license for the buyer. Only the original registered licensee can authorize the software.

So hold on to your license, as it is no good to anyone else.

-Ben

#148680
Jan 16, 2009 at 6:06pm

Pricing info hasn’t been released, but as has been written elsewhere in this thread, if you own both Max 5 and Live 8, the price of the Max for Live addon will be very reasonable.

jb

Quote: comfy wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 19:02
—————————————————-
> One question thats been buggin me is that I own Live (not 8 but will upgrade once its out) and I own Max5.
>
> So in order to use Max5 in Live I would need to purchase the “Max for Live” add on… If thats the case will there be any reduction in price for the “Max for Live” add on for owners of Max 5? Seeing that people who just buy “Max for Live” get the upgrade price option for a full version of Max5?
>
>
—————————————————-

#148681
Jan 16, 2009 at 6:13pm

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:06
—————————————————-
> Pricing info hasn’t been released, but as has been written elsewhere in this thread, if you own both Max 5 and Live 8, the price of the Max for Live addon will be very reasonable.
>
> jb

Awesome,Thanks….I can get all excited now! YAY

#148682
Jan 16, 2009 at 6:44pm

Om Nam Shiva.

On Fri, Jan 16, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Ben Bracken wrote:

>
> Let me be your spiritual advisor. As Max licenses are non-transferrable,
> you would be effectively disabling the license for the buyer. Only the
> original registered licensee can authorize the software.
>
> So hold on to your license, as it is no good to anyone else.
>
> -Ben
>
>
>

#148683
Jan 16, 2009 at 6:50pm

I predict that this forum is gonna be explode in few months :)

#148684
Jan 16, 2009 at 7:41pm

This probably is the greatest announcement I ever heard !

With Pluggo, MaxMSP already was a tool of choice. But such a close collaboration between my two favorite pieces of music software is like a dream come true.
It’s a whole new era you’re shaping here.

The matter of pluggo’s future and pricing for owners of both softwares seems to have been answered, hope it’s gonna be as sweet as it sounds ;)

I predict the userbase is going to explode, for the best.

#148685
Jan 16, 2009 at 8:51pm

Hello, all.

I have been entirely absent from the Max/MSP community for some years now, having been converted to the massive amount of productivity I found in other tools (specifically, Live). My license for Max/MSP 4.6 and Jitter sits on an iLok, sadly living in a dark drawer, never to grace my Intel-based MacBook.

However, this new announcement brings me a great deal of excitement. I loved the ability to craft new tools in Max/MSP but the feedback cycle between building a tool and making it be immediately usable meant that I rarely accomplished a lot directly inside Max/MSP. This new collaboration seems like it will neatly chop out that limiting factor, opening up the world of building tools once again.

I’m personally excited by a number of things: the ability to use Max as a way to make Live OSC-aware, the idea of having the Monome community’s Max patches available inside Live, and the new Max for Live device sharing that will crop up.

So, I’m glad to be back! Looking forward to Max for Live so I can start patching again.

#148686
Jan 16, 2009 at 10:51pm

I am a Live user but also recently downloaded Max to debug/update a patch which converts midi notes to DMX commands for lights. I currently use this to play ‘songs’ in live which, in fact, control my light show when I DJ.

Will I be able to use external modules in ‘Max for Live’?

My understanding is that in ‘Max for Live’ Midi/Audio in/out is limited to Live, but will I be able to use the module I have to talk to my USB-DMX cable inside a ‘Max 4 Live’ patch and receive midi notes from Live then send them out to my DMX cable.

This would help decide for me whether I will purchase Max or Max for Live instead.

Thanks!

#148687
Jan 16, 2009 at 10:52pm

I am a Live user but also recently downloaded Max to debug/update a patch which converts midi notes to DMX commands for lights. I currently use this to play ‘songs’ in live which, in fact, control my light show when I DJ.

Will I be able to use external modules in ‘Max for Live’?

My understanding is that in ‘Max for Live’ Midi/Audio in/out is limited to Live, but will I be able to use the module I have to talk to my USB-DMX cable inside a ‘Max 4 Live’ patch and receive midi notes from Live then send them out to my DMX cable.

This would help decide for me whether I will purchase Max or Max for Live instead.

Thanks!

#148688
Jan 16, 2009 at 11:02pm

On 16 Jan 2009, at 17:41, chris wrote:

> wow, this looks pretty incredible. almost makes me want to switch
> over from cubase to live, but its just too different :P

I started with Performer more than 20 years ago, and used Digital
Performer under OS 9 (remember that?) for quite a while, but switched
to Live two or three years ago. For something that’s often dismissed
as a DJ tool, it is a superbly engineered piece of software which is
more than up to the task of composing and assembling complete works –
I’ve used it for commercial recording and for two-hour gallery
soundtracks. In particular, the automation machinery is well designed
and robust. It’s a bit lacking in the ProTools-style soundbite editing
and finicky tempo control, but maybe Max4Live will kick things into
gear.

– N.

Nick Rothwell / Cassiel.com Limited
http://www.cassiel.com
http://www.myspace.com/cassieldotcom
http://www.last.fm/music/cassiel
http://www.reverbnation.com/cassiel
http://www.linkedin.com/in/cassiel
http://www.loadbang.net

#148689
Jan 17, 2009 at 1:09am

On 16 janv. 09, at 23:54, Didier Malenfant wrote:

> I am a Live user but also recently downloaded Max to debug/update a
> patch which converts midi notes to DMX commands for lights. I
> currently use this to play ‘songs’ in live which, in fact, control
> my light show when I DJ.
>
> Will I be able to use external modules in ‘Max for Live’?

yep.

> My understanding is that in ‘Max for Live’ Midi/Audio in/out is
> limited to Live, but will I be able to use the module I have to talk
> to my USB-DMX cable inside a ‘Max 4 Live’ patch and receive midi
> notes from Live then send them out to my DMX cable.

Live can also store automation which is just abstract values in time.
So you’ll be able to make a device that use your third party USB->DMX
objects and uses live incarnation objects to take advantage of the
Live automation for instance.

ej

#148690
Jan 17, 2009 at 2:28am

may someone be so kind as to explain the advantages of Max for Live over designing pluggo’s/vst’s and using them in Live?

thanks!

#148691
Jan 17, 2009 at 3:05am

> 2) Will certain objects such as hi be available directly in the Live environment, and the possibility of using them directly inside a Live project?

Well, I slapped something together this morning in the booth with my trusty Logitech slapping a ring modulator upside the head and it “just worked.”

#148692
Jan 17, 2009 at 3:08am

the main thing is the ease of development flow. without interruption of the music you can edit and change/swap-out devices in realtime. with pluggo you would build in Max then test in the host app.

check this article for how this was part of Robert and David’s motivation to integrate:

http://www.cycling74.com/story/2009/1/15/112631/799

Quote: meloday wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 19:28
—————————————————-
> may someone be so kind as to explain the advantages of Max for Live over designing pluggo’s/vst’s and using them in Live?
>
> thanks!
—————————————————-

#148693
Jan 17, 2009 at 4:14am

cool, thanks. tbh, i think i’d rather design my own Live inspired pluggos, test them in Live, then perform them in Live.

it could be kinda scary (not as stable) to patch in real-time…

Quote: RabidRaja wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 20:08
—————————————————-
> the main thing is the ease of development flow. without interruption of the music you can edit and change/swap-out devices in realtime. with pluggo you would build in Max then test in the host app.
>
> check this article for how this was part of Robert and David’s motivation to integrate:
> http://www.cycling74.com/story/2009/1/15/112631/799
>
>
> Quote: meloday wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 19:28
> —————————————————-
> > may someone be so kind as to explain the advantages of Max for Live over designing pluggo’s/vst’s and using them in Live?
> >
> > thanks!
> —————————————————-
>
>
—————————————————-

#148694
Jan 17, 2009 at 4:55am

This was just too good not to pass on… I just discovered (many thanks
to Matthias Schneider-Hollek for tipping me off) that JazzMutant is
offering a special (now through March 15) where they’re selling brand
new Lemurs (with the new version 2 firmware) at their web store for 1819
Euro/USD, shipping included! Yes, you read it right… US purchasers
can get a Lemur for $1819, over $1100 less than the normal list price
and they throw in the shipping for nothing!

… hmmm… I sort of sound like an advertisement, don’t I… sorry.

#148695
Jan 17, 2009 at 7:45am

>cool, thanks. tbh, i think i’d rather design my own Live inspired >pluggos, test them in Live, then perform them in Live.

>it could be kinda scary (not as stable) to patch in real-time…

Given that we have a combined Ableton/C74 engineering effort on this, as opposed to the whims of 3rd party plug-in SDKs, you can be fairly confident that the performance of M4L will be much more stable than a pluggo plug. Very significant improvements, especially concerning timing, have already been made.

The up close and personal access to Live via the API is something plugins are not capable of doing as well.

-A

#148696
Jan 17, 2009 at 9:43am

Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:06
—————————————————-
> Pricing info hasn’t been released, but as has been written elsewhere in this thread, if you own both Max 5 and Live 8, the price of the Max for Live addon will be very reasonable.

Dear Jeremy,
I am normally a quiet reader of this forum, but a user of Max/Msp/Jitter AND Live from the first days of these programs on. Today it was time to join the forum.

I just would like to say thank you and congratulations! This is a big step for me and I got really exited about it, when I read this yesterday. Both programs will benefit from this colaboration, I am very sure about that !

best wishes
Kurt Dahlke

#148697
Jan 17, 2009 at 10:58am

Perhaps this will replace Max 5 standalone – why bother with it? Every Max owner if they don’t have Live should get it – they can afford it if you could buy Max.

Perhaps Max owners who buy Live should get Max for Live for nothing – Ableton should give C74 some money for each sale!

#148698
Jan 17, 2009 at 11:48am

I must say I’m kind of awestruck with these new prices! With time the
Lemur has become a logical extension of MaxMSP/Jitter for me, and that
pricing…phew.

Jonathan F. Hallstrom skrev:
> This was just too good not to pass on… I just discovered (many
> thanks to Matthias Schneider-Hollek for tipping me off) that
> JazzMutant is offering a special (now through March 15) where they’re
> selling brand new Lemurs (with the new version 2 firmware) at their
> web store for 1819 Euro/USD, shipping included! Yes, you read it
> right… US purchasers can get a Lemur for $1819, over $1100 less than
> the normal list price and they throw in the shipping for nothing!
>
> … hmmm… I sort of sound like an advertisement, don’t I… sorry.

#148699
Jan 17, 2009 at 11:48am

Speaking only for myself, I’m very excited about Max for Live and the
Akai product.

However, having purchased both the Albeton 7 Suite and Max/MSP/Jitter
in 2007,
I would like to know how much it’s going to cost me, if anything, for
Max for Live?

I will be upgrading my Ableton Suite 7 to 8.

I have applied for the beta testing for Max for Live.

I’m going to try to trade in some other equipment or sell some
hardware on eBay in order to get the Akai Product for Live Performance
(meaning on stage; MainStage :)

So I hope it’s not some big costly hassle to use have to purchase an
expensive Max for Live.

I would hope that Ableton and Cycling ’74 can work together to provide
Max for Live as a Free option when upgrading to Live 8 Suite, as I
have no need for “Latin Percussion” (one of the items included in the
Live Suite 8 upgrade).

Frankly, I wish they’d just provide the option of including Max for
Live as part of the Live 7 to 8 Suite upgrade and replace the Latin
Percussion.

I’ve just purchased Max/MSP/Jitter so I have other motivations for
wanting to go the Max for Live route rather than Pluggo (though I plan
to learn Pluggo in time).

Someone from Cycling ’74 please contact me regarding this if possible.

-r

On Jan 16, 2009, at 11:14 PM, Jared Dunne wrote:

>
> cool, thanks. tbh, i think i’d rather design my own Live inspired
> pluggos, test them in Live, then perform them in Live.
>
> it could be kinda scary (not as stable) to patch in real-time…
>
> Quote: RabidRaja wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 20:08
> —————————————————-
>> the main thing is the ease of development flow. without
>> interruption of the music you can edit and change/swap-out devices
>> in realtime. with pluggo you would build in Max then test in the
>> host app.
>>
>> check this article for how this was part of Robert and David’s
>> motivation to integrate:
>> http://www.cycling74.com/story/2009/1/15/112631/799
>>
>>
>> Quote: meloday wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 19:28
>> —————————————————-
>>> may someone be so kind as to explain the advantages of Max for
>>> Live over designing pluggo’s/vst’s and using them in Live?
>>>
>>> thanks!
>> —————————————————-
>>
>>
> —————————————————-
>
>

#148700
Jan 17, 2009 at 11:51am

Well I don’t mind the post as I don’t know what a Lemur is or
JazzMutant.

I’ll do some searching but can you expound on how it can be used in
live performance (not the product but on stage).

-r

On Jan 16, 2009, at 11:55 PM, Jonathan F. Hallstrom wrote:

> This was just too good not to pass on… I just discovered (many
> thanks to Matthias Schneider-Hollek for tipping me off) that
> JazzMutant is offering a special (now through March 15) where
> they’re selling brand new Lemurs (with the new version 2 firmware)
> at their web store for 1819 Euro/USD, shipping included! Yes, you
> read it right… US purchasers can get a Lemur for $1819, over $1100
> less than the normal list price and they throw in the shipping for
> nothing!
>
> … hmmm… I sort of sound like an advertisement, don’t I… sorry.
>
>

#148701
Jan 17, 2009 at 12:00pm

Great, so how about cost?

If somebody has purchased Max/Msp/Jitter in 2007 and Ableton Suite 7
in 2007, will it be free, or cost a small fortune?

-r

On Jan 17, 2009, at 2:45 AM, Andrew Pask wrote:

>
>> cool, thanks. tbh, i think i’d rather design my own Live inspired
>> >pluggos, test them in Live, then perform them in Live.
>
>> it could be kinda scary (not as stable) to patch in real-time…
>
>
> Given that we have a combined Ableton/C74 engineering effort on
> this, as opposed to the whims of 3rd party plug-in SDKs, you can be
> fairly confident that the performance of M4L will be much more
> stable than a pluggo plug. Very significant improvements, especially
> concerning timing, have already been made.
>
> The up close and personal access to Live via the API is something
> plugins are not capable of doing as well.
>
> -A
>
>
>

#148702
Jan 17, 2009 at 12:04pm

I totally Agree !!!

If they want to partner in money, how about Offering a Special Akai/
Max-for-Live, for people who have Live 7 Suite Edu and upgrading to
Live 8 Edu, and Max/MSP/Jitter 5 full version.

On Jan 17, 2009, at 5:58 AM, David Molyneux wrote:

>
> Perhaps this will replace Max 5 standalone – why bother with it?
> Every Max owner if they don’t have Live should get it – they can
> afford it if you could buy Max.
>
> Perhaps Max owners who buy Live should get Max for Live for nothing
> – Ableton should give C74 some money for each sale!

#148703
Jan 17, 2009 at 3:51pm

Quote: strav100 wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 03:58
—————————————————-
> Perhaps this will replace Max 5 standalone – why bother with it? Every Max owner if they don’t have Live should get it – they can afford it if you could buy Max.
>
> Perhaps Max owners who buy Live should get Max for Live for nothing – Ableton should give C74 some money for each sale!
—————————————————-

No, I think Max standalone should always be an option. I have
been getting along just fine with out Live for years.
People should not have to pay $500 for Live (plus whatever M4L
costs) in order to use Max.

M4L does not allow you to develop your own externals (or share
them) so I don’t think I would ever give up Max standalone.

#148704
Jan 17, 2009 at 4:00pm

plus live is not necessarily the ideal environment for installation
work.

On Jan 17, 2009, at 10:51 AM, Anthony Palomba wrote:

>
> Quote: strav100 wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 03:58
> —————————————————-
>> Perhaps this will replace Max 5 standalone – why bother with it?
>> Every Max owner if they don’t have Live should get it – they can
>> afford it if you could buy Max.
>>
>> Perhaps Max owners who buy Live should get Max for Live for nothing
>> – Ableton should give C74 some money for each sale!
> —————————————————-
>
>
> No, I think Max standalone should always be an option. I have
> been getting along just fine with out Live for years.
> People should not have to pay $500 for Live (plus whatever M4L
> costs) in order to use Max.
>
> M4L does not allow you to develop your own externals (or share
> them) so I don’t think I would ever give up Max standalone.
>

#148705
Jan 17, 2009 at 9:04pm

Is it a correct price politics from Jazzmutant? US users get it much cheaper than european users, the street-price for new Lemur is in Germany 1900 Euro. So 100 Euro off isn’t big deal for me.. But nearly 40% off = 1380 Euro for it, that would be a deal !!!

P.S: can I pay in $$$ from europe ???

On Jan 16, 2009, at 11:55 PM, Jonathan F. Hallstrom wrote:

> This was just too good not to pass on… I just discovered (many
> thanks to Matthias Schneider-Hollek for tipping me off) that
> JazzMutant is offering a special (now through March 15) where
> they’re selling brand new Lemurs (with the new version 2 firmware)
> at their web store for 1819 Euro/USD, shipping included! Yes, you
> read it right… US purchasers can get a Lemur for $1819, over $1100
> less than the normal list price and they throw in the shipping for
> nothing!
>
> … hmmm… I sort of sound like an advertisement, don’t I… sorry.
>

#148706
Jan 17, 2009 at 9:33pm

I’m certain it’ll update on the european front as well – otherwise the
price difference could pay for a trip over there and back no sweat, hehe.

Andreas.

Roman Weingardt skrev:
> Is it a correct price politics from Jazzmutant? US users get it much cheaper than european users, the street-price for new Lemur is in Germany 1900 Euro. So 100 Euro off isn’t big deal for me.. But nearly 40% off = 1380 Euro for it, that would be a deal !!!
>
> P.S: can I pay in $$$ from europe ???
>
> .
>
>

#148707
Jan 17, 2009 at 10:40pm

I hope so, still save some $$$ for..

#148708
Jan 18, 2009 at 12:32am

i wonder how midi control of matrixcntrl will be managed?

#148709
Jan 18, 2009 at 3:37pm

Can we access parameters of Ableton’s devices with the API stuff?
For example, can I use my own LFO to modulate Sampler’s Pitch envelope Attack or the Track Volume? Like straight routing, without having to go thru a virtual MIDI driver and Live’s MIDI Learn?

#148710
Jan 18, 2009 at 5:23pm

Does MFL apply to the ‘Lite’ & Digidesign editions?
I’ve owned a Digi version for several years, but never really bothered to
look at it. The amount of excitement that this announcement has caused,
makes me think that perhaps it’s about time I did…
Cheers
Roger

#148711
Jan 18, 2009 at 5:29pm

Hey Kurt, welcome! Nice to have you here.

jb

Quote: pyrolator wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 10:43
—————————————————-
> Quote: Jeremy Bernstein wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 11:06
> —————————————————-
> > Pricing info hasn’t been released, but as has been written elsewhere in this thread, if you own both Max 5 and Live 8, the price of the Max for Live addon will be very reasonable.
>
> Dear Jeremy,
> I am normally a quiet reader of this forum, but a user of Max/Msp/Jitter AND Live from the first days of these programs on. Today it was time to join the forum.
>
> I just would like to say thank you and congratulations! This is a big step for me and I got really exited about it, when I read this yesterday. Both programs will benefit from this colaboration, I am very sure about that !
>
> best wishes
> Kurt Dahlke
—————————————————-

#148712
Jan 18, 2009 at 5:32pm

Automatable parameters are, unsuprisingly, limited to single numerical values. This means that, in the case of an object like matrixctrl, you’ll need to either separate the values you care about into individual parameters, or forget about using it for automation. Objects like matrixctrl, whose values are represented by lists, can still be publicized to Live as a kind of ‘blob’ parameter — the values will be saved in Live presets, and with the Set, but can’t be automated.

jb

Quote: theblackpeacock wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 01:32
—————————————————-
> i wonder how midi control of matrixcntrl will be managed?
—————————————————-

#148713
Jan 18, 2009 at 5:34pm

Quote: Bjorn Vayner wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 16:37
—————————————————-
> Can we access parameters of Ableton’s devices with the API stuff?
> For example, can I use my own LFO to modulate Sampler’s Pitch envelope Attack or the Track Volume? Like straight routing, without having to go thru a virtual MIDI driver and Live’s MIDI Learn?
—————————————————-

This is going to be possible, but it won’t be super-simple to set up, and will run in the GUI, rather than at audio-rate. This is just one of those limitations of the environment. Maybe we’ll find some nicer ways to deal with it in future versions.

jb

#148714
Jan 18, 2009 at 5:35pm

M4L will only run in the full version of Live 8.

jb

Quote: roger.carruthers wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 18:23
—————————————————-
> Does MFL apply to the ‘Lite’ & Digidesign editions?
> I’ve owned a Digi version for several years, but never really bothered to
> look at it. The amount of excitement that this announcement has caused,
> makes me think that perhaps it’s about time I did…
> Cheers
> Roger
—————————————————-

#148715
Jan 18, 2009 at 6:59pm

Does this mean that M4L will not run on an Educational Version of
Ableton Suite 8?

Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
> M4L will only run in the full version of Live 8.
>
> jb
>
> Quote: roger.carruthers wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 18:23
> —————————————————-
>
>> Does MFL apply to the ‘Lite’ & Digidesign editions?
>> I’ve owned a Digi version for several years, but never really bothered to
>> look at it. The amount of excitement that this announcement has caused,
>> makes me think that perhaps it’s about time I did…
>> Cheers
>> Roger
>>
> —————————————————-
>
>
>
>


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#148716
Jan 18, 2009 at 7:06pm

Quote: robert wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 19:59
—————————————————-
> Does this mean that M4L will not run on an Educational Version of
> Ableton Suite 8?
>
> Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
> > M4L will only run in the full version of Live 8.
> >
> > jb
> >
—————————————————-

The educational version is the the full version, but with educational pricing. What do you think?

jb

#148717
Jan 18, 2009 at 7:16pm

Well my Ableton account shows the current option to upgrade to 8 and I
will be doing that.

With money being so tight though, and wanting to spend more time on
New Music forms of development instead of Contracting for a living for
“Business” (which sucks), I’m a little concerned about the price of
M4L cost.

But it’s been said here that it will be reasonable; how reasonable for
a Max/MSP 5.0, Jitter, Pluggo, Mode, Hypno, Octirama and Upmix
customer; I purchased all these in about March of 2007 (full license).

I’ve been busy doing other research also which has slowed my learning
just a bit, but I have a vested interest in wanting C’74 to kick some
azz, and Live 8 I love.

I’m a bit pissed at Gibson though for charging so much for HD.6X.Pro
and now they come out with the DarkFire at lower cost and better
features, and the 5k+ HD.6X.Pro is a patented technology that is
supposed to be a long term investment, yet it came with the freakin’
lame SONAR 5 and I use a Mac, not a PC, let alone SONAR 6 had been out
for a while.

A lot of people are pissed at Gibson right now regarding their
handling of Dark Fire — I’ll stop there off-topic, but expense and
trust in the investment of vendor’s software is a big issue right now
regarding the economy (Thanks W for turning a national surplus into
the worst debt ever; compounding housing sit.). Yeah, politico a bit,
but this all works into the UpMix.

-r

On Jan 18, 2009, at 2:06 PM, Jeremy Bernstein wrote:

>
> Quote: robert wrote on Sun, 18 January 2009 19:59
> —————————————————-
>> Does this mean that M4L will not run on an Educational Version of
>> Ableton Suite 8?
>>
>> Jeremy Bernstein wrote:
>>> M4L will only run in the full version of Live 8.
>>>
>>> jb
>>>
> —————————————————-
>
> The educational version is the the full version, but with
> educational pricing. What do you think?
>
> jb
>

#148718
Jan 18, 2009 at 7:39pm

But a good thing is that the Live demo is fully functional without time
limitation. You can’t edit a set, but an installation may run with it.

> plus live is not necessarily the ideal environment for installation
> work.
>

#148719
Jan 19, 2009 at 6:10am

This is amazing news for C74, Ableton and the rest of us.

It’s already been touched on earlier, but I’m going to ask again with my own examples.

At the moment Live does not support NRPN’s, if Live handles the midi in/out in M4L will I be able to send NRPN’s constructed in Max/MSP out M4L’s midi out? I’ve been wanting to use Live’s GUI with Max via rewire but it “just doesn’t work”

How integrated is the programing? Ableton’s clip launch function is useful but not in depth enough, will I be able to weight the launch of clips in a more complex way eg. stochastic music.

And lastly, what can Max 5 do that M4L won’t – will it be watered down in any way, – missing objects?

either way, I’m excited.

#148720
Jan 19, 2009 at 11:39am

Three questions:
1) Will it be possible to embed externals inside created live devices?
2) Will it be possible to lock live devices from editing, so as to be able to for example sell or distribute said device without the fear of it’s internal workings being exposed to the general public?
3) Will there be an educational discount on the max4live addon?

#148721
Jan 19, 2009 at 2:08pm

#148722
Jan 19, 2009 at 3:54pm

Hi all!

I was wanted to give lot’s of KUDOS to the c74 folk for the wonderful integration that the M4L will bring!

I feel that you guys have truly generated a cooperation of the century!

Cheers,
P.

#148723
Jan 19, 2009 at 5:26pm

[Robert]

Check out this quick into video I did about my Lemur, it should give you and idea of what it can do. It’s used on stage by people like Daft Punk, Justice or Deadmau5 to name a few.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEjvb-yIRwY

[C74]

How will the ‘observer’ mode work (where you can interface with Live’s UI)?

Will the Max Patch still sit inside a device in a track somewhere or will there be another place to insert/edit those?

#148724
Jan 19, 2009 at 5:40pm

Quote: Veqtor wrote on Mon, 19 January 2009 04:39
—————————————————-
> Three questions:
> 1) Will it be possible to embed externals inside created live devices?
> 2) Will it be possible to lock live devices from editing, so as to be able to for example sell or distribute said device without the fear of it’s internal workings being exposed to the general public?
> 3) Will there be an educational discount on the max4live addon?
—————————————————-

I am particularly interested in knowing how 3rd party externals
will be handled or if there is a plan to handle them. I have
developed many of my own and I would definitely want to use
them in Max4Live. Is there any limitation there?

#148725
Jan 19, 2009 at 5:57pm

Quote: Anthony Palomba wrote on Mon, 19 January 2009 11:40
—————————————————-
> I am particularly interested in knowing how 3rd party externals
> will be handled or if there is a plan to handle them. I have
> developed many of my own and I would definitely want to use
> them in Max4Live. Is there any limitation there?
>
>
—————————————————-

From what has been said externals will be supported but the same issues with portability will exist if you want to distribute M4L devices.

I’m very curious to see how stable something like [fiddle~] will be inside Live.

#148726
Jan 19, 2009 at 7:24pm

Dieder,

Interesting.

However, I believe the following demo, shows why one might choose
Lemur (v2?) and it’s API capabilities, over the Akai Live controller.

However again, I have the MC Control and MC Mix (EuCon Protocol) from
Euphonix, and I’ve noticed a very distinct tactile difference in the
ability to use the Akai controller versus a touch-screen only.

So I’m still up in the air myself as to which to choose….Ultimately
both are good…it’s almost as if the more prevalent touch screen
controllers get, the more there will be a need for overlay
transparencies, that have “rough surfaces” and “smooth surfaces”.

For a slider you obviously want a smooth surface (like a typical X-Y
pad which is even less slippery than most touchscreens), but there is
a specific need for the ability to place, sticky rough surfaces onto a
touch display surface; perhaps this can be done with static
electricity supplemented with some kind of polymer that is made for
the screen and once placed will not move but can will be slightly
raised, and thus provide a much better degree of performance as a
toggle button.

-r

On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:26 PM, Didier Malenfant wrote:

>
> [Robert]
>
> Check out this quick into video I did about my Lemur, it should give
> you and idea of what it can do. It’s used on stage by people like
> Daft Punk, Justice or Deadmau5 to name a few.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEjvb-yIRwY
>
> [C74]
>
> How will the ‘observer’ mode work (where you can interface with
> Live’s UI)?
>
> Will the Max Patch still sit inside a device in a track somewhere or
> will there be another place to insert/edit those?
>

#148727
Jan 20, 2009 at 11:04am

Quote: Guillaume Evrard wrote on Mon, 19 January 2009 15:08
—————————————————-

> “Instead of thinking about what Max is going to do for Live, think about
> what Live is going to do for Max.

Thank you Guillaume for this input. This as absolutly true.
I think the audio engine in Live is very good and the new warping engine looks much more flexible, than to handle audio within the MaxMSP audio buffer.
I wonder if the new live.path, live.object and live.observer would also handle this aspects in live?
If so, it would be a huge step in handling audio in MaxMSP.

best wishes
pyro

#148728
Jan 21, 2009 at 7:36am

First of all, Jeremy, buddy, pal, THANK YOU! Wow… just wow. That goes for the rest of the C74 team. This really renews my faith in max. Cycling 74 continually reaffirms my view that Cycling 74 is the model technology company. Innovation and passion funding life and not the other way around. Thank you so much. It really gives me hope!

Questions:

1) Will the work you’ve done to ensure that audio runs uninterrupted in live be applied to max? What exactly is it?

2) How does max-for-live differ from max-as-plugin + live.objects ? Put a different way, does MaxForLive – live.objects + digi.objects = MaxForPT ? I know you’ve stated that pluggo is alive but this would be the most joyful end to pluggo I could think of.

#148729
Jan 21, 2009 at 8:13am

On 21 janv. 09, at 08:36, Matthew Aidekman wrote:

> 1) Will the work you’ve done to ensure that audio runs uninterrupted
> in live be applied to max? What exactly is it?
>
> 2) How does max-for-live differ from max-as-plugin + live.objects ?
> Put a different way, does MaxForLive – live.objects + digi.objects
> = MaxForPT ?

live.* objects for instance can be controlled by MIDI using the MIDI
assignment feature of Live. They also get the colors from the Live
environment so you’re M4L devices behave exactly the same way of the
standard Live’s one. There’s an Audio + Automation realtime pipe
between Live and Max… Those are the kind of things that you can only
get if you have a great partnership.

ej

#148730
Jan 21, 2009 at 1:25pm

To clarify:
Externals from third party , e.g. fiddle, one’s own C and Java externals, are going to run fine since Live is communicating with Max 5 on the machine?

I think Jeremy said as much, but I just wanted to make sure. Also, this looks an excellent extension of both programs – well done to all involved.

Andrew

#148731
Jan 21, 2009 at 1:27pm

Quote: Venetian wrote on Wed, 21 January 2009 14:25
—————————————————-
>
> To clarify:
> Externals from third party , e.g. fiddle, one’s own C and Java externals, are going to run fine since Live is communicating with Max 5 on the machine?
>
> I think Jeremy said as much, but I just wanted to make sure. Also, this looks an excellent extension of both programs – well done to all involved.
>
> Andrew
—————————————————-

I’m not sure if I should reward this “I-know-you-wrote-it-but-I-want-to-read-you-writing-it-again” behavior with anything but a meta-answer.

jb

#148732
Jan 21, 2009 at 1:30pm

sure – just checking my brain is working right!

#148733
Jan 21, 2009 at 4:12pm

For what it’s worth, I feel exactly the same about the Philosophy of
C74. They are unique. I’ve followed the developments of the company
for years but only had the money to get all the products in 2007.

One of my questions is about Aggregation, and a still as yet
unanswered question about a Comprehensive Tutorial, like those
available for many other products.

About Aggregation, what is the most common way to take a Visually
Programmed Patch and bundle it up for use within another patch, a
Black-Box of sorts.

-r

On Jan 21, 2009, at 2:36 AM, Matthew Aidekman wrote:

>
> First of all, Jeremy, buddy, pal, THANK YOU! Wow… just wow.
> That goes for the rest of the C74 team. This really renews my
> faith in max. Cycling 74 continually reaffirms my view that Cycling
> 74 is the model technology company. Innovation and passion funding
> life and not the other way around. Thank you so much. It really
> gives me hope!
>
> Questions:
>
> 1) Will the work you’ve done to ensure that audio runs uninterrupted
> in live be applied to max? What exactly is it?
>
> 2) How does max-for-live differ from max-as-plugin + live.objects ?
> Put a different way, does MaxForLive – live.objects + digi.objects
> = MaxForPT ? I know you’ve stated that pluggo is alive but this
> would be the most joyful end to pluggo I could think of.
>
>

#148734
Jan 21, 2009 at 4:37pm

Robert Thompson skrev:
> One of my questions is about Aggregation, and a still as yet
> unanswered question about a Comprehensive Tutorial, like those
> available for many other products.
Eh? There’s got to be like a hundred tutorials that come with MaxMSP?
>
> About Aggregation, what is the most common way to take a Visually
> Programmed Patch and bundle it up for use within another patch, a
> Black-Box of sorts.
Make an abstraction. That process is also explained in the
aforementioned tutorials.
Andreas.

#148735
Jan 21, 2009 at 4:49pm

Yes, yes, I know there are tons of Tutorials.

I’m talking about Demonstrative Video Tutorials. I’m doing one myself
for Lynda.com for Motion 3 particle systems.

No need for the “Eh?” — this is a nice and peaceful list and I’m a
newcomer, please refrain from slights of insult like that.

-r

On Jan 21, 2009, at 11:37 AM, Andreas Wetterberg wrote:

> Robert Thompson skrev:
>> One of my questions is about Aggregation, and a still as yet
>> unanswered question about a Comprehensive Tutorial, like those
>> available for many other products.
> Eh? There’s got to be like a hundred tutorials that come with MaxMSP?
>>
>> About Aggregation, what is the most common way to take a Visually
>> Programmed Patch and bundle it up for use within another patch, a
>> Black-Box of sorts.
> Make an abstraction. That process is also explained in the
> aforementioned tutorials.
> Andreas.
>
>

#148736
Jan 21, 2009 at 5:05pm

Robert Thompson skrev:
> Yes, yes, I know there are tons of Tutorials.
>
> I’m talking about Demonstrative Video Tutorials. I’m doing one myself
> for Lynda.com for Motion 3 particle systems.

Ah, you didn’t say. Makes sense, and it’s been discussed before – but
it’s going to take days of video, not hours. A herculean task, no doubt.
>
> No need for the “Eh?” — this is a nice and peaceful list and I’m a
> newcomer, please refrain from slights of insult like that.
“Eh” isn’t an insult or a slight of anything. LMGTFY:
-
“an interrogative utterance, usually expressing surprise or doubt or
seeking confirmation”
-

Did you get the abstractions to work?

Andreas
>
> -r
>
>
> On Jan 21, 2009, at 11:37 AM, Andreas Wetterberg wrote:
>
>> Robert Thompson skrev:
>>> One of my questions is about Aggregation, and a still as yet
>>> unanswered question about a Comprehensive Tutorial, like those
>>> available for many other products.
>> Eh? There’s got to be like a hundred tutorials that come with MaxMSP?
>>>
>>> About Aggregation, what is the most common way to take a Visually
>>> Programmed Patch and bundle it up for use within another patch, a
>>> Black-Box of sorts.
>> Make an abstraction. That process is also explained in the
>> aforementioned tutorials.
>> Andreas.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> .
>

#148737
Jan 21, 2009 at 6:26pm

Hi Matthew,
> 2) How does max-for-live differ from max-as-plugin + live.objects
> ? Put a different way, does MaxForLive – live.objects +
> digi.objects = MaxForPT ? I know you’ve stated that pluggo is
> alive but this would be the most joyful end to pluggo I could
> think of.

Allow me to present the “Edit” button…
The equation you present doesn’t fully take into account the intertwined and thorough integration that Max for Live represents. For example:

–Blank Max devices (Instrument,Audio,Midi effects) can be dropped into a device channel from the standard list of devices, and then edited at will.

–All of the ITM objects in your patch will automatically use the Live transport as their master, even while your patch is in editing mode.

–Because we are working collaboratively with Ableton, we are able to optimize things like event timing to be way more accurate and efficient than Pluggo has ever been.

–Since this is a long-term partnership, M4L isn’t going to be vulnerable to unexpected changes in technology, like VST or RTAS specs often do at the whim of those in control.

You will most likely be surprised at how the integration of Max into the Live context will change the way you approach patch writing, since it is easy to click the edit button and tweak things as you go. Also, given that the live.* objects are immediately visible to the Live mapping/automation engine, designing UI’s will be really easy. No mucking about with “pp” objects or plugconfig files. Via the live.param~ object, you will be able to get sample-accurate automation curve data in your patch as well.

I hope this clears things up a little.

Andrew B.

#148738
Jan 21, 2009 at 6:43pm

holy moly. excuse me while i go change my pants…
b

On Jan 21, 2009, at 1:26 PM, Andrew Benson wrote:

>
> Hi Matthew,
>> 2) How does max-for-live differ from max-as-plugin + live.objects
>> ? Put a different way, does MaxForLive – live.objects +
>> digi.objects = MaxForPT ? I know you’ve stated that pluggo is
>> alive but this would be the most joyful end to pluggo I could
>> think of.
>
> Allow me to present the “Edit” button…
> The equation you present doesn’t fully take into account the
> intertwined and thorough integration that Max for Live represents.
> For example:
>
> –Blank Max devices (Instrument,Audio,Midi effects) can be dropped
> into a device channel from the standard list of devices, and then
> edited at will.
>
> –All of the ITM objects in your patch will automatically use the
> Live transport as their master, even while your patch is in editing
> mode.
>
> –Because we are working collaboratively with Ableton, we are able
> to optimize things like event timing to be way more accurate and
> efficient than Pluggo has ever been.
>
> –Since this is a long-term partnership, M4L isn’t going to be
> vulnerable to unexpected changes in technology, like VST or RTAS
> specs often do at the whim of those in control.
>
> You will most likely be surprised at how the integration of Max
> into the Live context will change the way you approach patch
> writing, since it is easy to click the edit button and tweak things
> as you go. Also, given that the live.* objects are immediately
> visible to the Live mapping/automation engine, designing UI’s will
> be really easy. No mucking about with “pp” objects or plugconfig
> files. Via the live.param~ object, you will be able to get sample-
> accurate automation curve data in your patch as well.
>
> I hope this clears things up a little.
>
> Andrew B.
> –
>
>

#148739
Jan 21, 2009 at 7:00pm

> About Aggregation, what is the most common way to take a Visually
> Programmed Patch and bundle it up for use within another patch, a
> Black-Box of sorts.

If you’re referring to the ability to create and reuse bits of what you patch, then I would suggest you have a look at Tutorials 14 (Encapsulation) and 15 (Abstractions).

If you mean you want to create a patch that includes UI objects for its interface which you can then reuse, that’s called a bpatcher, and a little quality time with Interface tutorial 1 should sort you out.

#148740
Jan 21, 2009 at 8:54pm

now THAT excites me. obviously the plug in world has repeatedly pissed you guys off. And while it’s a bit saddening that something more generic can’t be worked out for the sake of spreading the max seed far and wide, dedicated relationship obviously has it’s pros. When ever that grace period starts, you know I’ll be buying myself a copy of live.

I’d like maxfor a lot of things. I cant think of a single thing in my life that wouldn’t be improved by an edit button.

#148741
Jan 22, 2009 at 3:58pm

hello,

i m looking for traces of max… concerning the musical practice, specially the musical consciousness!
can you write me your opinion about what max has changed in the last twenty years.

thanks a lot.
http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0901xLSVideo
Welches Video willst du sehen? Neu! Webweit Videos suchen. Hier starten!

#148742
Jan 22, 2009 at 6:17pm

Quote: st.scholl wrote on Thu, 22 January 2009 09:58
—————————————————-
>
> hello,
>
> i m looking for traces of max… concerning the musical practice, specially the musical consciousness!
> can you write me your opinion about what max has changed in the last twenty years.
>
> thanks a lot.
> http://redirect.gimas.net/?n=M0901xLSVideo
> Welches Video willst du sehen? Neu! Webweit Videos suchen. Hier starten!
>
>
—————————————————-

Not sure what this has to do with Max for Live, but nevertheless I would suggest this article as a starting point:

http://crca.ucsd.edu/~msp/Publications/dartmouth-reprint.dir/

#148743
Jan 26, 2009 at 12:58pm

Hey, hope I’m not to late with my question regrading m4l

Will it be possible to programmatically load a clip by sending a sample’s filepath and the session-view-coordinates to live?

Resulting in the possibility to create custom filebrowsers which completely work on a MIDI-controller’s LCD display(s).
This seems like the last step missing from a completely screen-less setup.

Thanks in advance
Achim

#148744
Jun 26, 2009 at 9:01pm

Soooo… Any updates? Public beta?

It would be cool if we could at least get some details about how much control the API integration will afford. New article with a few more tidbits? Pretty please?

#148745
Jun 26, 2009 at 9:19pm
Achim wrote on Mon, 26 January 2009 13:58
Resulting in the possibility to create custom filebrowsers which completely work on a MIDI-controller’s LCD display(s).
This seems like the last step missing from a completely screen-less setup.

Achim

real artists perform screenless patching, live on a dark stage, on a computer without keybord and mouse.

-110

#148746

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