middle and side to xy conversion

Jan 16, 2008 at 5:42pm

middle and side to xy conversion

hi

can anybody help convert my ms mics to xy?
i thought there was a patch somewhere, but can’t find it anywhere.
ms and xy aren’t the nicest items to do a searc for either ; )
thanks!

isjtar

#35402
Jan 16, 2008 at 6:01pm

would like to help…

What exactly is an MS mic?

#120611
Jan 16, 2008 at 6:24pm

I haven’t tested it out, as I have no ms mic handy, but this should
work. All you need to do to matrix the ms signals to xy is add the
mid mic to the side mic (for left channel) and to the side mic after
phase inversion (for the right channel). This abstraction does that,
and gives you variable width control by altering the level of the
side mic.

Hope it helps. Let me know if it does/doesn’t work, or if you have
questions.

#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 12.;
#P window linecount 2;
#P user com 160 211 205 196620 19;
#K set 0 16754 26485 28005 28276 8232 28528 29801 28526 24940 10554
8274 24941 28704 29801 28005 8297 28192 28019 11776;
#K end;
#P window linecount 1;
#P user com 160 188 205 196620 10;
#K set 0 20341 29804 25972 14880 16757 25705 28448 29545 26478 24940;
#K end;
#P window linecount 2;
#P user com 160 149 205 196620 26;
#K set 0 21097 26472 29728 26990 27749 29754 8274 24941 28704 29801
28005 8294 28530 8289 28016 27753 29813 25701 8291 26721 28263 25888
10345 28192 28019 11817;
#K end;
#P window linecount 3;
#P user com 160 94 205 196620 47;
#K set 0 17253 28276 25970 8297 28268 25972 14880 26220 28513 29743
27753 29556 14880 17509 25449 25189 27680 25448 24942 26469 8289
25199 30309 12130 25964 28535 8309 28265 29817 8232 29281 28263 25888
11569 12598 8308 28448 11057 12841 32 24942 25632 29281 28016 8308
26989 25902;
#K end;
#N comlet (bang) fade finished;
#P outlet 74 178 15 0;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 52 47 54 196617 unpack f f;
#N comlet (float) ramp time in ms;
#P inlet 116 28 15 0;
#P newex 135 28 79 196617 patcherargs 10;
#P newex 74 91 27 196617 f;
#P newex 52 68 32 196617 t f b;
#P newex 52 111 32 196617 line~;
#N comlet (float/list) db value (-116 to 12) , ramp time in ms.;
#P inlet 52 28 15 0;
#P newex 34 135 40 196617 dbtoa~;
#P newex 17 157 27 196617 *~;
#N comlet (signal) audio output;
#P outlet 17 178 15 0;
#N comlet (signal) audio input;
#P inlet 17 29 15 0;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 12.;
#P window linecount 2;
#P user com 160 55 205 196620 21;
#K set 0 19557 26228 8297 28268 25972 14880 16757 25705 28448 29545
26478 24940 8308 28448 25189 8291 28526 29810 28524 27749 25600;
#K end;
#P connect 6 1 12 0;
#P connect 8 0 6 1;
#P fasten 11 1 8 0 101 88 79 88;
#P fasten 9 0 8 0 140 88 79 88;
#P fasten 10 0 8 0 121 88 79 88;
#P connect 7 1 8 0;
#P connect 7 0 6 0;
#P connect 11 0 7 0;
#P connect 5 0 11 0;
#P fasten 4 0 3 1 39 156 39 156;
#P fasten 6 0 4 0 57 131 39 131;
#P connect 3 0 2 0;
#P connect 1 0 3 0;
#P window clipboard copycount 17;

On Jan 16, 2008, at 10:42 AM, isjtar wrote:

> hi
>
> can anybody help convert my ms mics to xy?
> i thought there was a patch somewhere, but can’t find it anywhere.
> ms and xy aren’t the nicest items to do a searc for either ; )
> thanks!

—-
Steven M. Miller
Professor, Contemporary Music Program
College of Santa Fe

Home < http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill>
SFIFEM <
http://sfifem.csf.edu>
Atrium Sound Space <
http://atrium.csf.edu>
OVOS <
http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill/ovos.html>
CMP <
http://www.csf.edu/academics/contemporary_music/>

#120612
Jan 16, 2008 at 6:35pm

ms stands for “mid-side” and refers to mics that have an element that
“looks” straight ahead and two that “look” to the side. when decoded
correctly – don’t ask me to explain that process, do a search for mid-
side – one can manipulate the stereo image in very cool and
interesting ways, with control over width, etc.
cheers
b

On Jan 16, 2008, at 1:01 PM, seth wrote:

>
> would like to help…
>
> What exactly is an MS mic?
>
>
>

bruce tovsky
http://www.skeletonhome.com

“Sometimes the appropriate response to reality is to go insane.”
Philip K. Dick

#120613
Jan 16, 2008 at 6:59pm

ah : )
middle and side.
it’s a different way for doing stereo recordings instead of xy or ab.
the middle is a cardioid, the side figure of 8, you place them
vertically stacked.
you need to apply a formula to convert it to normal stereo.
it has some advantages like you can control the width of the image
with the respective volumes.
a bit of a hassle for monitoring and converting though.
it’s used a lot in film btw

On Jan 16, 2008, at 7:01 PM, seth wrote:

>
> would like to help…
>
> What exactly is an MS mic?
>
>
>

#120614
Jan 16, 2008 at 11:40pm

Steven Miller schrieb:
> I haven’t tested it out, as I have no ms mic handy, but this should
> work. All you need to do to matrix the ms signals to xy is add the mid
> mic to the side mic (for left channel) and to the side mic after phase
> inversion (for the right channel). This abstraction does that, and gives
> you variable width control by altering the level of the side mic.
>
> Hope it helps. Let me know if it does/doesn’t work, or if you have
> questions.

I guess its the wrong patch, I’d do it like that: (fits to your
description including “haven’t tested but should work”…)

#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P comment 109 228 15 196617 R;
#P comment 123 34 16 196617 S;
#P newex 164 74 50 196617 dbtoa;
#P inlet 164 53 15 0;
#P newex 124 97 50 196617 *~ 1.;
#P outlet 109 205 15 0;
#P outlet 64 203 15 0;
#P newex 109 150 25 196617 -~;
#N comlet S input;
#P inlet 124 53 15 0;
#N comlet M input;
#P inlet 64 53 15 0;
#P comment 63 33 16 196617 M;
#P comment 63 226 15 196617 L;
#P connect 7 0 5 0;
#P connect 7 0 4 1;
#P connect 2 0 5 0;
#P connect 2 0 4 0;
#P connect 9 0 7 1;
#P connect 8 0 9 0;
#P connect 3 0 7 0;
#P connect 4 0 6 0;
#P window clipboard copycount 12;


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#120615
Jan 17, 2008 at 12:34am

On Jan 16, 2008, at 4:40 PM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

> I guess its the wrong patch, I’d do it like that: (fits to your
> description including “haven’t tested but should work”…)
>
>

Yes, except that you need to invert the side before adding to the mid
rather than subtract the mid from the side, unless you then invert
the combined signal again (in order to maintain mono compatibility, a
hallmark of the MS technique).

The added benefit of my patch is that there’s no (or at least greatly
reduced) zipper noise, due to use of line~, etc., in the fader
subpatch. Yours will have noise on incoming level discontinuities.
You’re right, however, I can simplify mine slightly by rearranging
the fader and inverter and then removing one fader subpatch.

BTW – my fader subpatch has other capabilities unused in the current
patch – it’s a straight copy of a more general purpose fader
abstraction I use regularly.

What did you mean by “I guess it’s the wrong patch”?

#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 200 169 37 196617 *~ -1;
#N vpatcher 10 59 610 459;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 12.;
#P user com 236 270 205 196620 19;
#K set 0 16754 26485 28005 28276 8232 28528 29801 28526 24940 10554
8274 24941 28704 29801 28005 8297 28192 28019 11776;
#K end;
#P window linecount 1;
#P user com 236 247 205 196620 10;
#K set 0 20341 29804 25972 14880 16757 25705 28448 29545 26478 24940;
#K end;
#P window linecount 2;
#P user com 236 208 205 196620 26;
#K set 0 21097 26472 29728 26990 27749 29754 8274 24941 28704 29801
28005 8294 28530 8289 28016 27753 29813 25701 8291 26721 28263 25888
10345 28192 28019 11817;
#K end;
#P window linecount 3;
#P user com 236 153 205 196620 47;
#K set 0 17253 28276 25970 8297 28268 25972 14880 26220 28513 29743
27753 29556 14880 17509 25449 25189 27680 25448 24942 26469 8289
25199 30309 12130 25964 28535 8309 28265 29817 8232 29281 28263 25888
11569 12597 8308 28448 11057 12841 32 24942 25632 29281 28016 8308
26989 25902;
#K end;
#N comlet (bang) fade finished;
#P outlet 150 237 15 0;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 9.;
#P window linecount 1;
#P newex 128 106 54 196617 unpack f f;
#N comlet (float) ramp time in ms;
#P inlet 192 87 15 0;
#P newex 211 87 79 196617 patcherargs 10;
#P newex 150 150 27 196617 f;
#P newex 128 127 32 196617 t f b;
#P newex 128 170 32 196617 line~;
#N comlet (float/list) db value (-116 to 12) , ramp time in ms.;
#P inlet 128 87 15 0;
#P newex 110 194 40 196617 dbtoa~;
#P newex 93 216 27 196617 *~;
#N comlet (signal) audio output;
#P outlet 93 237 15 0;
#N comlet (signal) audio input;
#P inlet 93 88 15 0;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 12.;
#P window linecount 2;
#P user com 236 114 205 196620 21;
#K set 0 19557 26228 8297 28268 25972 14880 16757 25705 28448 29545
26478 24940 8308 28448 25189 8291 28526 29810 28524 27749 25600;
#K end;
#P connect 1 0 3 0;
#P connect 3 0 2 0;
#P fasten 6 0 4 0 133 190 115 190;
#P fasten 4 0 3 1 115 215 115 215;
#P connect 5 0 11 0;
#P connect 11 0 7 0;
#P connect 7 0 6 0;
#P connect 7 1 8 0;
#P fasten 10 0 8 0 197 147 155 147;
#P fasten 9 0 8 0 216 147 155 147;
#P fasten 11 1 8 0 177 147 155 147;
#P connect 8 0 6 1;
#P connect 6 1 12 0;
#P pop;
#P newobj 117 110 63 196617 p;
#N comlet (signal) right channel output;
#P outlet 200 267 15 0;
#N comlet (signal) left channel output;
#P outlet 117 267 15 0;
#N comlet (float/int) side level control;
#P inlet 221 71 15 0;
#N comlet (signal) side input;
#P inlet 117 71 15 0;
#N comlet (signal) mid input;
#P inlet 50 71 15 0;
#P window setfont “Sans Serif” 12.;
#P window linecount 6;
#P user com 368 136 298 196620 87;
#K set 0 19557 26228 8297 28268 25972 14880 19817 25632 29545 26478
24940 3395 25966 29797 29216 26990 27749 29754 8275 26980 25888 29545
26478 24940 3410 26983 26740 8297 28268 25972 14880 10342 27759 24948
12137 28276 10528 21353 25701 8300 25974 25964 8291 28526 29810 28524
11296 26990 8292 16955 8306 24942 26469 8237 8235 12594 8308 28448
11569 12597 8232 12320 15648 28271 8291 26721 28263 25897 3341 20341
29804 25972 29498 8268 25958 29728 9760 21097 26472 29728 29545 26478
24940 8303 30068 28789 29696;
#K end;
#P connect 2 0 6 0;
#P connect 6 0 4 0;
#P fasten 1 0 4 0 55 224 122 224;
#P fasten 3 0 6 1 226 100 148 100;
#P fasten 6 0 7 0 122 154 205 154;
#P fasten 1 0 5 0 55 229 205 229;
#P connect 7 0 5 0;
#P window clipboard copycount 8;

—-
Steven M. Miller
Professor, Contemporary Music Program
College of Santa Fe

Home < http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill>
SFIFEM <
http://sfifem.csf.edu>
Atrium Sound Space <
http://atrium.csf.edu>
OVOS <
http://pubweb.csf.edu/~smill/ovos.html>
CMP <
http://www.csf.edu/academics/contemporary_music/>

#120616
Jan 17, 2008 at 7:35am

Steven Miller schrieb:
> Yes, except that you need to invert the side before adding to the mid
> rather than subtract the mid from the side

but I subtracted the side from the mid which is the same as inverting
and adding… I’d rather leave the side level control outside of the
abstraction, as it would eat cycles even if you don’t want to fiddle
with it, as well as the 1/sqrt2 level adaption which should be necessary
to keep the levels…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com

#120617
Jan 17, 2008 at 12:36pm

thanks gentlemen, not bad : )

On Jan 17, 2008, at 8:35 AM, Stefan Tiedje wrote:

> Steven Miller schrieb:
>> Yes, except that you need to invert the side before adding to the
>> mid rather than subtract the mid from the side
>
> but I subtracted the side from the mid which is the same as
> inverting and adding… I’d rather leave the side level control
> outside of the abstraction, as it would eat cycles even if you
> don’t want to fiddle with it, as well as the 1/sqrt2 level adaption
> which should be necessary to keep the levels…
>
> Stefan
>
> —
> Stefan Tiedje————x——-
> –_____———–|————–
> –(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
> — _|_)—-|—–()————–
> ———-()——–www.ccmix.com
>
>

#120618

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