list

Here's my 2 cents. Before you make a big deal over latency, you 

should do a reality check and make sure it is an issue. In everything 

I have ever done for over 20 years in interactive performance, MIDI 

I have sent signals from a force sensing resistor over a wireless 

link and out a MIDI interface, checked for a threshold crossing in 

Max after receiving the MIDI and used this to trigger a sample, and 

the result has been effectively instantaneous. I can tap the FSRs 

and the samples sound like they're triggering immediately. Consider 

the potential latencies here, and you'll see what I mean.

If you're moving ten faders at once really fast controlling synched 

oscillators at high resolution, MIDI latency might be an issue. In 

The threshold for distinguishing two notes as separate events is 

about 30 ms (yes, you can argue all different figures for this, but 

this is a decent benchmark). The threshold for hearing a note as 

being "late" is probably slightly longer. MIDI costs about 1 ms per 

message. Add a few more ms for the interface and the time for the 

software to respond, and you're still way under.

On the upside for MIDI, it works with everything and is extremely 

robust as a transport mechanism. (A friend reported to me that he put 

MIDI connectors at either end of a kilometer of speaker cable, 

injected broadband noise onto the cable and it _still_ worked.)

OK, speed freaks, now go ahead and slam me :-)

********************************************

* MidiTron MIDI to Real World Interface *

Here's my 2 cents. Before you make a big deal over latency, you 
should do a reality check and make sure it is an issue. In everything 
I have ever done for over 20 years in interactive performance, MIDI 
latencey has _never_ been a problem.

I have sent signals from a force sensing resistor over a wireless 
link and out a MIDI interface, checked for a threshold crossing in 
Max after receiving the MIDI and used this to trigger a sample, and 
the result has been effectively instantaneous.  I can tap the FSRs 
and the samples sound like they're triggering immediately.  Consider 
the potential latencies here, and you'll see what I mean.

If you're moving ten faders at once really fast controlling synched 
oscillators at high resolution, MIDI latency might be an issue.  In 
practice, it almost never is.

The threshold for distinguishing two notes as separate events is 
about 30 ms (yes, you can argue all different figures for this, but 
this is a decent benchmark).  The threshold for hearing a note as 
being "late" is probably slightly longer.  MIDI costs about 1 ms per 
message.  Add a few more ms for the interface and the time for the 
software to respond, and you're still way under.

On the upside for MIDI, it works with everything and is extremely 
robust as a transport mechanism. (A friend reported to me that he put 
MIDI connectors at either end of a kilometer of speaker cable, 
injected broadband noise onto the cable and it _still_ worked.)

********************************************
* MidiTron MIDI to Real World Interface    *
* Now available from http://eroktronix.com *
* Only $149                                *
********************************************


midi-and-latency-was-re-about-teleo

Just curious, what type of wireless link(s) have you used to send MIDI

Just curious, what type of wireless link(s) have you used to send MIDI
signals from FSR 's?


In effects, 1 ms per message is not an issue.

In a couple of days I have to decide :-) , so I would like to ask one thing:

I will use 20 analog outputs in Miditron, connected to a drum machine with 20 samples, outputs are linked to 20 lamps (analog outputs for dimming) , so that the amplitude of any sample is reflected to lamps in real time.

Is it possible for you? I mean, how many lamps could I link without having latency issues?

Thank you Eric.
In effects, 1 ms per message is not an issue.

In a couple of days I have to decide :-) , so I would like to ask one thing:
I will use 20 analog outputs in Miditron, connected to a drum machine with 20 samples, outputs are linked to 20 lamps (analog outputs for dimming) , so that the amplitude of any sample is reflected to lamps in real time.

Is it possible for you? I mean, how many lamps could I link without having latency issues?


keep in mind that the ear is much more sensitive to latency than the 

in sound, 10 ms is at the critical treshold, in vision, 50 ms is.

this is the basis of 25 fps as film standard.

moreover, if you use candescent light (ordinary light bulbs), the 

of the lamp is much larger than 50 ms. If you switch off the lamp, it 

keep in mind that the ear is much more sensitive to latency than the  
eye.
in sound, 10 ms is at the critical treshold, in vision, 50 ms is.
this is the basis of 25 fps as film standard.

moreover, if you use candescent light (ordinary light bulbs), the  
response time
of the lamp is much larger than 50 ms. If you switch off the lamp, it  
still glows
for the better part of a second.

And does it exist something better than candescent light?

Something that have less latency and that is not "binary"...so that I will obtain 128 values of brightness... 

Thank you very much.
And does it exist something better than candescent light?
Something that have less latency and that is not "binary"...so that I will obtain 128 values of brightness... 
(like "neon" for example? )


traditionally: light bulbs with mechanical shutters.

recently: light bulbs with LCD type shutters (aka beamer)

I do have in using TL, and that is not trivial in the low end

(it is difficult to drive a TL from zero to say 10% as it takes

traditionally: light bulbs with mechanical shutters.
recently: light bulbs with LCD type shutters (aka beamer)

i have no experience in regulating neon.
I do have in using TL, and that is not trivial in the low end
(it is difficult to drive a TL from zero to say 10% as it takes
more than 10% power to ignite the tube)
-jennek


strong LED modules, controlled by PWM (pulse width modulation). as 

long as i can remember miditron should have few PWM outputs. To some 

extent LEDs can be dimmed by applying lower voltage, but the curve is 

strong LED modules, controlled by PWM (pulse width modulation). as  
long as i can remember miditron should have few PWM outputs. To some  
extent LEDs can be dimmed by applying lower voltage, but the curve is  
definitely not linear.


LED modules for use in theatre etc you will find at 

LED modules for use in theatre etc you will find at http:// 
www.lagotronics.com/
-jennek


You can run all 20 lamps. However, you will trade off PWM speed 

and/or resolution. The manual (downloadable from 

 has a chart of maximum rate/resolution versus 

You can run all 20 lamps. However, you will trade off PWM speed 
and/or resolution. The manual (downloadable from 
http://eroktronix.com) has a chart of maximum rate/resolution versus 
number of PWM channels.

>strong LED modules, controlled by PWM (pulse width modulation). as 

>long as i can remember miditron should have few PWM outputs.

Up to 20, with maximum refresh rate going down as more PWMs are enabled.

At 6:21 PM +0100 2/12/06, klif wrote:
>strong LED modules, controlled by PWM (pulse width modulation). as 
>long as i can remember miditron should have few PWM outputs.

On 12 Feb, 2006, at 14:22, Bruno Zamborlin wrote:

> And does it exist something better than candescent light?

> Something that have less latency and that is not "binary"...so that I 

> will obtain 128 values of brightness...

LED systems are probably best - you can now get LED replacements for 

bulbs in theatre lamps - at a price of course.

Lawrence Casserley - lawrence@lcasserley.co.uk

Lawrence Electronic Operations - www.lcasserley.co.uk

Colourscape Music Festivals - www.colourscape.org.uk

> Thank you very much.
> And does it exist something better than candescent light?
> Something that have less latency and that is not "binary"...so that I 
> will obtain 128 values of brightness...
> (like "neon" for example? )
>
LED systems are probably best - you can now get LED replacements for 
bulbs in theatre lamps - at a price of course.

Lawrence Casserley - lawrence@lcasserley.co.uk
Lawrence Electronic Operations - www.lcasserley.co.uk
Colourscape Music Festivals - www.colourscape.org.uk


Thank you all, I'll try theatre lamps (as soon as Miditron will arrive) :-)

MIDI and Latency (was Re: About Teleo)