MindWave to Max/MSP
MindWave is an inexpensive bio sensor product made by NeuroSky – has anyone developed a Max object to read the data from this sensor into Max? There is an object at nonpolynomials.com that seems to have been developed for another similar product made by the same company – but I cannot make it work with the MindWave EEG sensor. The suggested API’s for developing for the MindWave seem to be java or Flash – has anyone had any experience with this? I think I saw some people controlling the Euclidean Patter Generator at the Max Science Fair in Brooklyn last year – were they using some other EEG device? Any experience with the MindWave < --> Max/MSP connection would be most appreciated!
You might have seen the video of my EEG project from the first Max science fair in CA. At the time I was using one of the EEG amplifiers that I use in my clinical practice. It’s expensive (~$2500).
Since then I’ve experimented with two different NeuroSky headsets. The Mindwave headset works with the nonpolynomial Max Object but is more expensive and less convenient for the user. The Mindset headset uses a different baud rate and does not work correctly with that object.
During most of 2011, I was in frequent contact with NeuroSky and in occasional contact with nonpolynomial asking for an update. It should be a relatively easy fix. There were many promises but neither source produced an updated object. User support at NeuroSky is very slow, very poor and very uninformed. I finally gave up on them and on the NeuroSky products. Unless they work out of the box for the buyer, I wouldn’t recommend them.
thank you for the reply – much appreciated! Yes – so far I have had no luck with NeuroSky support – not a good sign! But in the meantime – although I downloaded the Max object from nonpolynomial.com, installed it as a Max external and the help file it comes with seems fine in a patcher – it still will not connect to the MindWave sensor – I may be wrong, but it seems designed for one of NeuroSky’s other sensors – the MindSet. My understanding is that the MindWave, less expensive than the MindSet, uses an RF dongle to communicate with the computer – and the object from nonpolynomial.com requires a bluetooth connection – which the mindwave sensor does not provide – but again – all naive speculation! Have you (or anyone) had any success with the mindWAVE and the nonpolynomial.com object?
The Mindset is an older headset priced at about twice the cost of the newer Mindwave. The Mindset covers both ears with a padded headphones, which could be a plus or a minus, depending on how you want to use it. The user cannot hear ambient sound as well when wearing it. One of its connections depend on the headphone pad pressing an electrode against the ear. This can be result in unreliable input at times. The pluses of the Mindset are an internal rechargeable battery and Bluetooth with no dongle required. I have used it for performances and demo’s several times.
I have both the Mindset and the Mindwave. I can confirm that the Mindset does work with the nonpolynomial Max object as long as the physical connections to the user are maintained well. Knowing a bit about how to get and keep a clean EEG signal really helps.
In the past, I have been able to use the nonpolynominal to connect with the Mindwave, but the connection is unreliable and the data output is not correct. The problem with the nonpolynomial Max object is not the RF dongle vs. Bluetooth difference — it is the difference in baud rate for the data stream from the two devices.
Again – thanks so much for the help – I finally managed to get the MindWave to send data to the nonpolynomials object – I was initializing the port incorrectly – but yes, you are certainly correct – the data stream is unreliable and not very useful, and entirely different than what one sees in the mindwave visualizer app – and the problem does in fact seem the result of an difference in communication speed / device – to – device sync. I wonder if there is a way to tweak the object to reflect the difference in baud rate between the MindSet and the MindWave devices? Sounds like a question for the guy who wrote the object over at nonpolynomials – I’ll see if I can reach him – if I have any luck I will pass it on to this forum for future reference – again – THANK YOU!
Okey, here is the truth, The device sends data at one second interval. You have to scale the data between these intervals. That is what happening with their brain visualizer. Try simple processing script that uses think gear connector.
That said I am currently using Mindset in the Museum installation and running into horrible problems with audio quality and can’t recommend moving to this unit for the sake of Audio output. Hell, the Emotive Sensor seems to look more interesting by the day
hey guys did you get any luck with the nonpolynomials object for max? Im using a MIndwave Mobile and max crashes everytime i try to launch the np_mindset object. Is there any way to change the baudrate of the object??
any hint si really appreciated!!
Also interested in this, has there been any progression in getting the MindWave to work effectively in Max/MSP?
hello, I got the mindwave working with the nonpolynomial.com object. I paired my MIndWave with the general MindWave Manager and changed the input port to: port /dev/tty.MindWave in Max/Msp.
Now I get every 7 seconds a signal. Maybe its possible to decrease that delay, but I am very new to Max/Msp.
Hi all, a couple of weeks ago I presented a project in Sydney, Australia – called ThetaLab with James Peter Brown. We used Myndplay’s "BrainBand" which uses the ThinkGear chip and bluetooth serial system. Trent Brooks a developer in Sydney, wrote an app for us to parse the bluetooth serial data from the Thinkgear chip – into OSC. It needs a bit more refinement – specifically some changes to how it’s sending the OSC data – (currently seding without "/" at start of OSC messages – but if you’re interested – try this out…
Here’s a max patch that receives the data as presently formated
What’s your take on the BrainBand? Do you get reliable signals? Are they complex enough to do a lot of things via Max or other software?
It wasn’t totally clear what data is sent using the BrainBand versus with their dev kit, which costs a lot more but presumably sends more data as well…
Really would like a good, cheap, open-source solution for EEG, with straightforward transmitting of data: bluetooth or UDP (maybe just UDP and assume a wireless network), adjustable data update timing, sends all the raw data, etc. It could come with apps to do the analysis for spectrum levels, or do it onboard.
Just seems like there’s a lot of different options, and they all have their pros and cons, and it’s a pain to get the data…and if you want the raw data, you pay a lot more…
I just wanna control stuff with my mind! Is that too much to ask?? ;)
Looks interesting, so does this work work only with the BrainBand at present?
I spotted this earlier:
Is the ‘BrainOSC’ referred to in this the same as what you are talking about?
I’m hoping to try this out tomorrow, i’ve had quite a bit of frustration trying to get signals from the MindWave into Max/MSP.
I’m curious if there has been any more progress on this front. I’m looking into purchasing a new EEG and I’m looking at the Neurosky lineup as well as the brain band and even the IBVA Brain Machine that I already know connects seamlessly with Max. Ideally, I would have access to the streaming data via bluetooth as well as the possibility of ultimately integrating with another environment like Unity 3D or C++. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I’m running on a Mac.
I have developed a free android app to connect the neurosky mobile headset to MAX using Open Sound Control, its called mindwaveOSC, its very basic, just set the IP and Port number and hit connect on the app. Screenshot attached.
A max/msp patch can be downloaded from – http://code.google.com/p/enttecosc/downloads/detail?name=mindwave.maxpat
OSC Messages (all int’s) :
I’m using the BrainOSC_receiver.maxpat to get data into Max. However, it doesn’t recognize blinking.
I tried this one: mindwave.maxpat
but it doesn’t seem to recognize blinking either; I get only signal, attention and meditation.
From what I gather, the detection has to be enabled, but how? How can I get all the data possible form my MindWave in Max?
Talking of Mindwave headset
I’ve been able to get all OSC messages (attention, Meditation, all waves, from BrainOsc.app
The messages are formatted this way (see print from udpreceive):
however, seems like that the OSC messages MAYBE are not entirely correct
(compare data with Brain Grapher app)
For example I get very high Delta Waves and very low Beta.. which is kind of odd, since I’m not
trying this while sleeping.
BrainOsc seems a fine tool but any info about this problem or update would be very very appreciated.
I’ve been able to use it now
Settings.xml must be edited to work with the dev/tty/MindWave address
Again I’m getting high deltas… Is it me?
nonpolynomial Max object:
On their website there is only a maxhelp file. mxo object is totally missing…
it’s a more sophisticated machine but poor OSC support (MindYourOsc works correctly only on Windows)
also, after a few months of non use, the saline solution broken most of the plastic sensors
Hi all –
I am also trying to use the MindWave with Max/MSP. Has anyone had any luck with the blink detection bug in mindwave.maxpat?