Erik

Hi to the Jitter forum, this is my first letter and I'm working on my first Jitter patch.

I apologize for my english and Jitter vocabulary, I not a "fluent member " yet

The aim is to project huge images, one is 1280 x 640, processed by a Dual G5

the other is a double 1024x768 screen, processed by a new quad G5, projected using the two DVI/VGA output of the video card

I made my first Jitter/OGL desktable to pilot the videos, mapped on several OGL objets so that i can have different ways to put it on stage.

My guess was basicly to map video on 2 videoplanes overlayed, to fade and sometimes mix different inputs using OGL, and then play with the planes or add other objects. Play mainly with shapes, position fixed background images and masks.

I thought it was reasonnable for a first project but...

It works, but the play rate is frightenning !

First of all, can anyone explain why the play rate is so different when you play a film on QT and via Jitter ? (just read it on a VP)

I built my images on after effects and calculate it in PJpeg 75, all that is perfectly red by Qt even through a Ext HD FW400.

I knew it would be different trough Jitter but the gap is huge ! Yes the CPU has to decompress the image but just like QT does I guess...

How can I make it better ? I used a get movie dim to automatically size the jit.qt.movie

I was planning to have the A film on the hard dik and the B film on an external FW800 disk, so that i never call 2 films on the same disk, but nethertheless, the rate is so low (9 ips for my first 1280 x 1024 video, getting lower and lower....), despite asking nothing else than just playing one, that I was hopeless yesterday evening!

how is loadram working ? shall I use it ? It seems that Jitter is working with my film even if i don't play it (rate 0 ?), and filling the ram until nothing is possible anymore !!!! (my videosequences can be several Go size.) How much ram do I need ?

(By the way, how can i play the same film on 2 Vplanes, with a one second delay between oneanother ?)

Is there a way to pilot the rotation of an OGL object with a speed rotation instead of an angle ? The pb i have is that when I send my rotation informations (which means a lot of informations a sec, generated by the tabledesk metro), it is briefly interrupted as soon as i ask something else to my desktable, such as loading a new film for the next sequence ....

If I calculate movies with different fps to use lowrate when it is possible (10 ips perhaps), and higher rate when it is necessary (20 ips would be probably enough), how do I configure the metro ?

I knew it would be difficult, so I planed also to work with fix Psd image as backgrounds, to free the cpu for a while and prepare the following sequence. But simply translating a plane with an image was not smooth a all ! how is loadram working with my fixed Psd images ? I sent a bang on the image only if i work on it, (if I send an offset, or move a mask.... but i didn't reach this step !) Those fixed images are mapped on a plane like the videos, using matrix with @auto

Will I allways have a rate brakedown if I load for exemple the next image of the next sequence, while playing a video ?

What about metro or qmetro in my case, overdrive or not .....

This is quite a hurry, thank you very much to anyone who could give a hand,

Hi to the Jitter forum, this is my first letter and I'm working on my first Jitter patch.
I apologize for my english and Jitter vocabulary, I not a "fluent member " yet

The aim is to project huge images, one is 1280 x 640, processed by a Dual G5
the other is a double 1024x768 screen, processed by a new quad G5, projected using the two DVI/VGA output of the video card
this is piloted by a PB via ethernet

I made my first Jitter/OGL desktable to pilot the videos, mapped on several OGL objets so that i can have different ways to put it on stage.
My guess was basicly to map video on 2 videoplanes overlayed, to fade and sometimes mix different inputs using OGL, and then play with the planes or add other objects. Play mainly with shapes, position fixed background images and masks.

I thought it was reasonnable for a first project but...
It works, but the play rate is frightenning !

First of all, can anyone explain why the play rate is so different when you play a film on QT and via Jitter ? (just read it on a VP)
I built my images on after effects  and calculate it in PJpeg 75, all that is perfectly red by Qt even through a Ext HD FW400.
I knew it would be different trough Jitter but the gap is huge ! Yes the CPU has to decompress the image but just like QT does I guess...
How can I make it better ? I used a get movie dim to automatically size the jit.qt.movie
I was planning to have the A film on the hard dik and the B film on an external FW800 disk, so that i never call 2 films on the same disk, but nethertheless, the rate is so low (9 ips for my first 1280 x 1024 video, getting lower and lower....), despite asking nothing else than just playing one, that I was hopeless yesterday  evening!

how is loadram working ?  shall I use it ? It seems that Jitter is working with my film even if i don't play it (rate 0 ?), and filling the ram until nothing is possible anymore !!!! (my videosequences can be several Go size.) How much ram do I need ?
(By the way, how can i play the same film on 2 Vplanes, with a one second delay between oneanother ?)

I knew it would be difficult, so I planed also to work with fix Psd image as backgrounds, to free the cpu for a while and prepare the following sequence. But simply translating a plane with an image was not smooth a all ! how is loadram working with my fixed Psd images ? I sent a bang on the image only if i work on it, (if I send an offset, or move a mask.... but i didn't reach this step !) Those fixed images are mapped on a plane like the videos, using matrix with @auto
Will I allways have a rate brakedown if I load for exemple the next image of the next sequence, while playing a video ?

movieplayer-rate

> Hi to the Jitter forum, this is my first letter and I'm working on 

so welcome; you seem to have made a very fast start.. all these 

problems within the first patch... wow! ;-)

before i deal with the content of your post - in my opinion, messages 

to the list (or forum) are similar to max patches - sometimes if you 

have a big problem, it's better to break it into several smaller ones.

in this one post you have enough questions to start 10 threads, and 

starting 10 thread actually would be more fruitful i guess, 

especially if they deal with different problems...

> The aim is to project huge images, one is 1280 x 640, processed by 

> the other is a double 1024x768 screen, processed by a new quad G5, 

> projected using the two DVI/VGA output of the video card

> I made my first Jitter/OGL desktable to pilot the videos,

> I thought it was reasonnable for a first project but...

but seriously, seems like a heavy start to me, directly diving in 

openGL without heaving dealt with matrixes etc first.. but on the 

other hand, if you have max experience already, it should be ok

> It works, but the play rate is frightenning !

> First of all, can anyone explain why the play rate is so different 

> when you play a film on QT and via Jitter ? (just read it on a VP)

at this point, an example patch would be very helpful...

did you try the directly-to-window-method demonstrated in the 

> I built my images on after effects and calculate it in PJpeg 75, 

> all that is perfectly red by Qt even through a Ext HD FW400.

sounds ok; firewire hd could be the bottleneck. did you try to play 

> I knew it would be different trough Jitter but the gap is huge ! 

> Yes the CPU has to decompress the image but just like QT does I 

btw, do you use any jit.pwindows in your patch? using 'onscreen' and 

'doublebuffer' can make a BIG difference...

> I used a get movie dim to automatically size the jit.qt.movie

> I was planning to have the A film on the hard dik and the B film on 

> an external FW800 disk, so that i never call 2 films on the same 

> disk, but nethertheless, the rate is so low (9 ips for my first 

> 1280 x 1024 video, getting lower and lower....), despite asking 

> nothing else than just playing one, that I was hopeless yesterday 

> how is loadram working ? shall I use it ?

hmmm, normaly: yes, but with files of these dimensions (&longer than 

a few seconds) i would say no, unless you like crashes... ;-)

> It seems that Jitter is working with my film even if i don't play 

> it (rate 0 ?), and filling the ram until nothing is possible 

> anymore !!!! (my videosequences can be several Go size.) How much 

but surely more than the original compressed files.

> (By the way, how can i play the same film on 2 Vplanes, with a one 

by buffering the image in a jit.matrixset for example..

[the next few questions i omit; maybe they get a bigger chance of 

the patch getting slower and slower sounds like backlogging or so to 

that's something that i also try to figure out at the moment...

> This is quite a hurry, thank you very much to anyone who could give 

> Hi to the Jitter forum, this is my first letter and I'm working on  
> my first Jitter patch.

so welcome; you seem to have made a very fast start.. all these  
problems within the first patch... wow! ;-)

before i deal with the content of your post - in my opinion, messages  
to the list (or forum) are similar to max patches - sometimes if you  
have a big problem, it's better to break it into several smaller ones.
in this one post you have enough questions to start 10 threads, and  
starting 10 thread actually would be more fruitful i guess,  
especially if they deal with different problems...

>
> The aim is to project huge images, one is 1280 x 640, processed by  
> a Dual G5
> the other is a double 1024x768 screen, processed by a new quad G5,  
> projected using the two DVI/VGA output of the video card
> this is piloted by a PB via ethernet

>
> I made my first Jitter/OGL desktable to pilot the videos,

>
> I thought it was reasonnable for a first project but...
well, if you are patient..;-)
but seriously, seems like a heavy start to me, directly diving in  
openGL without heaving dealt with matrixes etc first.. but on the  
other hand, if you have max experience already, it should be ok

> It works, but the play rate is frightenning !
>
> First of all, can anyone explain why the play rate is so different  
> when you play a film on QT and via Jitter ? (just read it on a VP)
that depends.
at this point, an example patch would be very helpful...

did you try the directly-to-window-method demonstrated in the  
jit.q.tmovie help patch? is that faster?

> I built my images on after effects  and calculate it in PJpeg 75,  
> all that is perfectly red by Qt even through a Ext HD FW400.
sounds ok; firewire hd could be the bottleneck. did you try to play  
(maybe a portion) from internal HD?

> I knew it would be different trough Jitter but the gap is huge !  
> Yes the CPU has to decompress the image but just like QT does I  
> guess...
> How can I make it better ?

btw, do you use any jit.pwindows in your patch? using 'onscreen' and  
'doublebuffer' can make a BIG difference...

> I used a get movie dim to automatically size the jit.qt.movie
> I was planning to have the A film on the hard dik and the B film on  
> an external FW800 disk, so that i never call 2 films on the same  
> disk, but nethertheless, the rate is so low (9 ips for my first  
> 1280 x 1024 video, getting lower and lower....), despite asking  
> nothing else than just playing one, that I was hopeless yesterday   
> evening!
should work faster as far as i know...

>
> how is loadram working ?  shall I use it ?
hmmm, normaly: yes, but with files of these dimensions (&longer than  
a few seconds) i would say no, unless you like crashes... ;-)

> It seems that Jitter is working with my film even if i don't play  
> it (rate 0 ?), and filling the ram until nothing is possible  
> anymore !!!! (my videosequences can be several Go size.) How much  
> ram do I need ?
several Gb's  in that case ;-)
but surely more than the original compressed files.

> (By the way, how can i play the same film on 2 Vplanes, with a one  
> second delay between oneanother ?)
by buffering the image in a jit.matrixset for example..

[the next few questions i omit; maybe they get a bigger chance of  
getting answered in a different thread]

definitely qmetro!!
the patch getting slower and slower sounds like backlogging or so to  
me, but i'm not an expert..

> overdrive or not .....
that's something that i also try to figure out at the moment...
>
> This is quite a hurry, thank you very much to anyone who could give  
> a hand,

    I will take more time tomorow to tell more,

    No, I'm not a Max worker eather, I just had a two days briefing on Max and Jitter few mounths ago. I'm working on StageImageProject for a creation with the IRCAM in PAris, no one there nows about image and I feel a bit lonely in Paris in this activity ! It's good to read the forum, and receive answers.

    It's my first patch but I'm working on it intensively since 2 months ! By "pilot" I mean that I first made a big patch (an videodesk table like a light-programming table for shows) to be able to program several films on several OGL objects dispatched on 3 G5. This desktable is on a PB, linked on Ethernet, and sends informations to 3 patches, one for each G5.

    This Videoplayertable works, and I am working with the IRCAM to programm the show with the autopatter, linked to the music cue list.

    The problem is a videorate pb. I map my films on videoplane, to be able to play them different ways, but even asking for nothing else than "play" the rate is very low.

    Especially, when I stop the film (rate 0), it seems that something continues to run (if i try with a film with sound -which i don't need) the sounds continue to play. It means the CPU keeps working, for no use.

    It seems also that the ram needs to be emptyed, i don't know how ... etc

    Thank jou for your first answer, i will try to go back and split my problems in differetns parts tomorow on the forum, as you suggested

	I will take more time tomorow to tell more,

	No, I'm not a Max worker eather, I just had a two days briefing on Max and Jitter few mounths ago. I'm working on StageImageProject for a creation with the IRCAM in PAris, no one there nows about image and I feel a bit lonely in Paris in this activity ! It's good to read the forum, and receive answers.
	It's my first patch but I'm working on it intensively since 2 months ! By "pilot" I mean that I first made a big patch (an videodesk table like a light-programming table for shows) to be able to program several films on several OGL objects dispatched on 3 G5. This desktable is on a PB, linked on Ethernet, and sends informations to 3 patches, one for each G5.

	This Videoplayertable works, and I am working with the IRCAM to programm the show with the autopatter, linked to the music cue list.

	The problem is a videorate pb. I map my films on videoplane, to be able to play them different ways, but even asking for nothing else than "play" the rate is very low.
	Especially, when I stop the film (rate 0), it seems that something continues to run (if i try with a film with sound -which i don't need) the sounds continue to play. It means the CPU keeps working, for no use.
	It seems also that the ram needs to be emptyed, i don't know how ... etc

	Thank jou for your first answer, i will try to go back and split my problems in differetns parts tomorow on the forum, as you suggested

On 06.02.2006, at 15:40, Duranteau wrote:

>     No, I'm not a Max worker eather, I just had a two days briefing on 

> I'm working on StageImageProject for a creation with the IRCAM in 

i didn't know IRCAM was *that* sound oriented...

> and I feel a bit lonely in Paris in this activity ! It's good to 

>     It's my first patch but I'm working on it intensively since 2 

> months ! By "pilot" I mean that I first made a big patch (an 

> videodesk table like a light-programming table for shows) to be 

> able to program several films on several OGL objects dispatched on 

by the way, i just programmed something similar, but then all on 1 G5 

with 2 video cards (so 3 beam outputs). but only 720 x 405 resolution.

or at least for a while i programmed in that direction, and then 

> This desktable is on a PB, linked on Ethernet, and sends 

> informations to 3 patches, one for each G5.

>     This Videoplayertable works, and I am working with the IRCAM to 

> programm the show with the autopatter, linked to the music cue list.

>     The problem is a videorate pb. I map my films on videoplane, to be 

> able to play them different ways, but even asking for nothing else 

maybe you should really first check them with the 'direct-to-window' 

method, as with that, no processing at all is applied.

if *that* isn't smooth, it's probably a bandwith problem or so, but 

maybe try this (ask if you don't know what to do with the next lines ;-)

if that works fine (or doesn't), you're a step closer to the 

with that patch, i could display 2 movies of dim 1600 1200 very 

with an OGL version, i achieved a framerate of ca. 20fps (dualCore g5 

>     Especially, when I stop the film (rate 0), it seems that something 

> continues to run (if i try with a film with sound -which i don't 

> need) the sounds continue to play. It means the CPU keeps working, 

-if you run a movie (the 'normal' method with a metro) and you switch 

off that metro, you'll still hear the movie sound, unless you stop 

the movie (with a 'stop' message, or 'rate 0'. that is normal; 

internally, it continues to play; there just aren't any matrixes 

-if you stop the movie (with 'stop' or 'rate 0', but keep the metro 

on, the movie object will still be busy - namely, outputting the same 

to truly stop it, do both - metro off and 'stop'.

if it then continues to play, there probably *is* sth wrong!..

>     It seems also that the ram needs to be emptyed, i don't know 

>     Thank jou for your first answer, i will try to go back and split 

> my problems in differetns parts tomorow on the forum, as you suggested

as i said before, a (partial) example patch of what you are doing 

you're welcome!
>
> 	No, I'm not a Max worker eather, I just had a two days briefing on  
> Max and Jitter few mounths ago.
must have been a good briefing then! ;-)

> I'm working on StageImageProject for a creation with the IRCAM in  
> PAris, no one there nows about image

> and I feel a bit lonely in Paris in this activity ! It's good to  
> read the forum, and receive answers.
> 	It's my first patch but I'm working on it intensively since 2  
> months ! By "pilot" I mean that I first made a big patch (an  
> videodesk table like a light-programming table for shows) to be  
> able to program several films on several OGL objects dispatched on  
> 3 G5.

ah, like a giant remote control?
by the way, i just programmed something similar, but then all on 1 G5  
with 2 video cards (so 3 beam outputs). but only 720 x 405 resolution.
or at least for a while i programmed in that direction, and then  
changed plans a bit..

> This desktable is on a PB, linked on Ethernet, and sends  
> informations to 3 patches, one for each G5.
>
> 	This Videoplayertable works, and I am working with the IRCAM to  
> programm the show with the autopatter, linked to the music cue list.
cool!

>
> 	The problem is a videorate pb. I map my films on videoplane, to be  
> able to play them different ways, but even asking for nothing else  
> than "play" the rate is very low.

maybe you should really first check them with the 'direct-to-window'  
method, as with that, no processing at all is applied.
if *that* isn't smooth, it's probably a bandwith problem or so, but  
surely not your patch..

if that works fine (or doesn't), you're a step closer to the  
problem's solution (hopefully..).
with that patch, i could display 2 movies of dim 1600 1200 very  
smoothly.
with an OGL version, i achieved a framerate of ca. 20fps (dualCore g5  
2.33).
both movies read from a firewire HD.

> 	Especially, when I stop the film (rate 0), it seems that something  
> continues to run (if i try with a film with sound -which i don't  
> need) the sounds continue to play. It means the CPU keeps working,  
> for no use.

i think you mix up 2 things here:
-if you run a movie (the 'normal' method with a metro) and you switch  
off that metro, you'll still hear the movie sound, unless you stop  
the movie (with a 'stop' message, or 'rate 0'. that is normal;  
internally, it continues to play; there just aren't any matrixes  
'produced'.
-if you stop the movie (with  'stop' or 'rate 0', but keep the metro  
on, the movie object will still be busy - namely, outputting the same  
frame all the time.

to truly stop it, do both - metro off and 'stop'.
if it then continues to play, there probably *is* sth wrong!..

> 	It seems also that the ram needs to be emptyed, i don't know  
> how ... etc

>
>
>
> 	Thank jou for your first answer, i will try to go back and split  
> my problems in differetns parts tomorow on the forum, as you suggested
>
> 	To be continued so...
>
ok!

as i said before, a (partial) example patch of what you are doing  
would help to help!

movieplayer rate