Forums > MaxMSP

My Book of Dreams

October 1, 2008 | 7:06 pm

Hey max/msp-ers –

I’m putting on-line a project I recently finished, it’s an
integrated music/text/graphics application called "My Book of Dreams".
Grab it here if you’re interested:

http://music.columbia.edu/~brad/BookOfDreams/

It was programmed entirely in Max/MSP/Jitter, using the [rtcmix~] and
[maxlispj] objects for most of the audio control and synthesis. There’s
been a fair amount of discussion on the list lately about generative and
algorithmic composition — all of the music in the application is
generated
and synthesized algorithmically (i.e. no sound samples). I’m especially
happy with the the physical model oboe-shawm and controlling style-model
agent.

I hope you enjoy it! Feel free to pass the web site along to others
if you’d like.

Brad Garton

http://music.columbia.edu/~brad


October 1, 2008 | 7:45 pm

Hi Brad,

two crash here.
Can’t launch the source patch called "BookOfDreams.pat"

MaxMSPJitter 4.6.3 1.6
OSX.4.11
PPC G4


October 1, 2008 | 8:19 pm

Same here. Same specs except for a G5. Just see the splash screen. Src
code did the same thing to max 4.6.3, and I think I probably have all the
right extentions in there, but can’t get that far to tell.

Looks like an ambitious work. I hope I get to look at it.

Christopher Overstreet

On 10/1/08 12:45 PM, "Derrick Giscloux" wrote:

>
> Hi Brad,
>
> two crash here.
> Can’t launch the source patch called "BookOfDreams.pat"
>
>
> MaxMSPJitter 4.6.3 1.6
> OSX.4.11
> PPC G4
>
>
>


October 1, 2008 | 8:30 pm

It works perfectly for me, and sounds great. Maybe it’s an architecture issue? I’m on an Intel machine. Nice work Brad!

Eric


October 1, 2008 | 8:34 pm

Awesome work! I really enjoyed it. It reminds me a bit of "Einstein’s Dreams" but shorter and sweeter. I especially was… uh… what’s the word… i guess most "tripped out" by your metadreams. Really great idea. I have this trick I do when I find a dream I like, I wake myself up just a little so that I can return to sleep with a greater sense of control over the dream. If I ever have a metadream like the ones you had, I will certainly have to try this and then I feel I will either become master of the universe or … uh… maybe I just won’t know what to do with myself, hahaha.

And I just have to say, my favorite part was where you are about to "save" Paul Lansky by knocking him unconscious with a large piece of wood and he simply replies, "Don’t worry, I’ve had it done to me before."

P.S. One thing you could do to expand on this "Book of Dreams" idea is maybe, since your chapters are short but sweet, turn them into captions for some kind of visual animations? I like the little squares alot, don’t get me wrong, but it’s just an idea to go further. Like, this is probably a bad example(probably not the music you’d want and i’m not any kind of professional graphic-designer/animator), but if you look here at my website:
http://www.karaokaze.net
you see how you could easily have someone create abstract flash animations, generate quicktime files of them and then include them in your application(but then again, maybe that would create too large of a download size). or else host them on the net, which would allow you to create longer ones without the problems of downloading a huge file but then you’d have to maybe do the generative music some other way like using java or something. I guess i shouldn’t come up with ideas like this when i have no idea how to implement them, but…. just sharing a dream that spawned from reading yours. Anyways, great work again! Thanks for sharing!



MIB
October 2, 2008 | 3:00 am

unfortunately it crashes for me too on both max 5 and max 4.6.3

I hope this is fixable… this sounds really exciting!!!!


October 2, 2008 | 4:15 am

Brad,
I enjoyed it thoroughly and was very, very impressed. Your work in algorithmic composition continues to be an inspiration for me. I hope to "get there" one day (I have yet to write a piece that is completely algorithmic). Thanks for sharing.

PS – I can’t open the source patch either. I believe I have maxlispj and rtcmix~ installed properly. The patch starts to load, I see a bunch of general lisp eval errors (stack overflow or memory) – I think these are expected IIRC. Then there is an rtcmix error about function "roomset" already defined. And shortly after that it crashes. Maybe I will install the latest versions of maxlisp and rtcmix at some point (not motivated to debug this further right now)


October 2, 2008 | 6:37 am

Quote: RabidRaja wrote on Thu, 02 October 2008 06:34
—————————————————-
> I have this trick I do when I find a dream I like, I wake myself up just a little so that I can return to sleep with a greater sense of control over the dream.

Now I’m officially jealous! (No, not really.)

You know that’s called lucid dreaming, don’t you? Just in case: http://www.lucidity.com/


October 2, 2008 | 1:21 pm

On Oct 1, 2008, at 4:30 PM, Eric Lyon wrote:

> It works perfectly for me, and sounds great. Maybe it’s an
> architecture issue? I’m on an Intel machine. Nice work Brad!

Thanks, Eric!

It’s not an architecture issue — I tested it on both PPC and Intel
machines, including even an older G4 running 10.3.9. I wish it were
that simple.

Derrick and Christopher (and others running OS 10.4.x): try this
version, it may behave better on your G4/G5 machines:

http://music.columbia.edu/~brad/BookOfDreams/older/BookOfDreams.app.zip

Note: The above version will not run on Leopard (10.5.x)!

I apologize for the crashes a few people have been experiencing. The
application was actually finished towards the beginning of August, and
I’ve spent the last two months trying to be sure it runs on various
platforms. Unfortunately this one is caught between max 4.6 and max
5, and OS X 10.4.x and 10.5.x. And I’m just really clueless about
Windows in general… It’s just weird; seems to run fine on most
machines but then there are others that don’t seem any different,
yikes! It makes me truly appreciate commercial developers like
Cycling, Peter Castine, etc.

For Mac users experiencing crashes: I would like to see any crash
reports you can generate — it may help me understand what is failing
on particular machines (garton – at – columbia.edu). Also, if you try
loading the ‘source’ patches and they crash, try loading them with the
loadbangs disabled (hold SHIFT-APPLE) to see if any clues show up in
the Max window. Note: You may have to re-enable the Max Menus (under
"File" I think) in order to get to the Max window.

For Windows users experiencing crashes: I wish I knew more. I think
I’ll be getting a new Windows laptop in a few months. Not sure if I
should get Vista or find a vendor who will load XP.

Thanks!

brad

http://music.columbia.edu/~brad


October 2, 2008 | 1:22 pm

On Oct 1, 2008, at 11:00 PM, Martin wrote:

> unfortunately it crashes for me too on both max 5 and max 4.6.3

For sure it won’t work w/ max 5. Soon after the SDK is out, it
should…

> I hope this is fixable… this sounds really exciting!!!!

I hope it is too! See my just-sent post, hopefully I can get you a
version that will run.

brad

http://music.columbia.edu/~brad


October 2, 2008 | 1:38 pm

On Oct 2, 2008, at 12:15 AM, Adam Murray wrote:

> Brad,
> I enjoyed it thoroughly and was very, very impressed. Your work in
> algorithmic composition continues to be an inspiration for me. I
> hope to "get there" one day (I have yet to write a piece that is
> completely algorithmic). Thanks for sharing.

thanks Adam! Believe it or not, words like this mean a lot… :-)

> PS – I can’t open the source patch either. I believe I have maxlispj
> and rtcmix~ installed properly. The patch starts to load, I see a
> bunch of general lisp eval errors (stack overflow or memory) – I
> think these are expected IIRC. Then there is an rtcmix error about
> function "roomset" already defined. And shortly after that it
> crashes. Maybe I will install the latest versions of maxlisp and
> rtcmix at some point (not motivated to debug this further right now)

Aha — you have an older [rtcmix~], and it does not run on Leopard.
The lisp errors look scary but are innocuous, having to do more with
where the BGabcl.jar archive is stashed. Gonna work on that a bit
with max 5. You need v. 1.56 of [rtcmix~] to run under OS X 10.5.x.

brad

http://music.columbia.edu/~brad


October 2, 2008 | 1:44 pm

On Oct 1, 2008, at 4:34 PM, raja wrote:

> Awesome work! I really enjoyed it. It reminds me a bit of
> "Einstein’s Dreams" but shorter and sweeter.

That makes me happy — I really like Lightman’s writing.

> And I just have to say, my favorite part was where you are about to
> "save" Paul Lansky by knocking him unconscious with a large piece of
> wood and he simply replies, "Don’t worry, I’ve had it done to me
> before."

Paul got a big chuckle out of it, too.

> P.S. One thing you could do to expand on this "Book of Dreams" idea
> is maybe, since your chapters are short but sweet, turn them into
> captions for some kind of visual animations? I like the little
> squares alot, don’t get me wrong, but it’s just an idea to go
> further. Like, this is probably a bad example(probably not the music
> you’d want and i’m not any kind of professional graphic-designer/
> animator), but if you look here at my website:
> http://www.karaokaze.net

I’d seen your website before — nice work! I’m pretty much
graphically-challenged myself, though. Goofy little squares are about
the best I can do, I think. :-) Also, the shortness of the chapters
was definitely a ‘design decision’. I had done a similar project a
about 7 years ago (http://music.columbia.edu/~brad/software/downloads/My_Music_Book.html
) with much longer chapters, not sure if they worked as well as the
more concise ones in the Book of Dreams.

Thanks again for the nice comments, glad you enjoyed it.

brad

http://music.columbia.edu/~brad


October 2, 2008 | 7:12 pm

This version brings up AFP Connection Status window and will go no further
and keeps trying if I hit Cancel or if it times out, so I must force quit.
The window says, "Looking up "Abzinia.", which is either a name of an old
hard-drive, or maybe what I called this machine a long time ago. Seems like
a clue, or maybe a new problem.

On 10/2/08 6:21 AM, "Brad Garton" wrote:

>
> It’s not an architecture issue — I tested it on both PPC and Intel
> machines, including even an older G4 running 10.3.9. I wish it were
> that simple.
>
> Derrick and Christopher (and others running OS 10.4.x): try this
> version, it may behave better on your G4/G5 machines:
>
> http://music.columbia.edu/~brad/BookOfDreams/older/BookOfDreams.app.zip


October 2, 2008 | 7:26 pm

Quote: Bill Canty wrote on Thu, 02 October 2008 00:37
—————————————————-
> Quote: RabidRaja wrote on Thu, 02 October 2008 06:34
> —————————————————-
> > I have this trick I do when I find a dream I like, I wake myself up just a little so that I can return to sleep with a greater sense of control over the dream.
>
> Now I’m officially jealous! (No, not really.)
>
> You know that’s called lucid dreaming, don’t you? Just in case: http://www.lucidity.com/
—————————————————-

I didn’t know that! I think I will read up on it now, though, sounds like there’s a world of self-awakening possibilities there. Thanks for telling me about it. (and here i was thinking i’d only learn about max on these forums!)


October 3, 2008 | 9:51 pm

Wow, excellent! After reading through them all I had fun clicking
around and exploring the transitions a bit too. Does the scoll
position in the story influence the music at all? At any rate, really
great piece – thanks very much for sharing this!

Erik

On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 3:06 PM, Brad Garton wrote:
> Hey max/msp-ers –
>
> I’m putting on-line a project I recently finished, it’s an
> integrated music/text/graphics application called "My Book of Dreams".
> Grab it here if you’re interested:
>
> http://music.columbia.edu/~brad/BookOfDreams/
>
> It was programmed entirely in Max/MSP/Jitter, using the [rtcmix~] and
> [maxlispj] objects for most of the audio control and synthesis. There’s
> been a fair amount of discussion on the list lately about generative and
> algorithmic composition — all of the music in the application is generated
> and synthesized algorithmically (i.e. no sound samples). I’m especially
> happy with the the physical model oboe-shawm and controlling style-model
> agent.
>
> I hope you enjoy it! Feel free to pass the web site along to others
> if you’d like.
>
>
> Brad Garton
> http://music.columbia.edu/~brad
>
>


music: http://www.hecanjog.com / http://www.cedarav.com
community: http://www.luvsound.org / http://www.lovelymedia.org


October 4, 2008 | 11:03 am

beautiful work Brad , thanks for sharing this.
you probably know that there are many traditions ( tibetan , indigenous ) that work closely with dreams, where dreams are part of daily "reality".
you might find answers in some questions you are asking yourself by visiting some of these traditions.
my question now is how max and dreams relate for you ? :)

will we have a [dream~] object soon ? :)


October 4, 2008 | 1:00 pm

Quote: (karrrlo) wrote on Sat, 04 October 2008 21:03
—————————————————-
> my question now is how max and dreams relate for you ? :)
> will we have a [dream~] object soon ? :)
—————————————————-

No, we’ll use dreams to connect with the source of all knowledge in order to solve our Max problems! ;-)


October 4, 2008 | 3:51 pm

Whoa, this one leaves me completely flabbergasted. I honestly
have no idea what could be causing this…

brad

http://music.columbia.edu/~brad

On Oct 2, 2008, at 3:12 PM, Christopher Overstreet wrote:

> This version brings up AFP Connection Status window and will go no
> further
> and keeps trying if I hit Cancel or if it times out, so I must force
> quit.
> The window says, "Looking up "Abzinia.", which is either a name of
> an old
> hard-drive, or maybe what I called this machine a long time ago.
> Seems like
> a clue, or maybe a new problem.
>
>
> On 10/2/08 6:21 AM, "Brad Garton" wrote:
>
>>
>> It’s not an architecture issue — I tested it on both PPC and Intel
>> machines, including even an older G4 running 10.3.9. I wish it were
>> that simple.
>>
>> Derrick and Christopher (and others running OS 10.4.x): try this
>> version, it may behave better on your G4/G5 machines:
>>
>> http://music.columbia.edu/~brad/BookOfDreams/older/BookOfDreams.app.zip
>
>


October 4, 2008 | 3:56 pm

Erik –

Thanks! Indeed the scroll position does influence both the music and
the graphics in the little squares. Sometimes it’s triggering or
shutting
down on-going algorithmic processes, sometimes it’s effecting DSP
params, etc.

I’m glad you’re enjoying the transitions. I thought of the ‘book’ as
being a complete ‘piece’ in a sense, but kind of like those hypertext
books where the reader can thread different paths through the story.

brad

http://music.columbia.edu/~brad

On Oct 3, 2008, at 5:51 PM, erik schoster wrote:

> Wow, excellent! After reading through them all I had fun clicking
> around and exploring the transitions a bit too. Does the scoll
> position in the story influence the music at all? At any rate, really
> great piece – thanks very much for sharing this!


October 4, 2008 | 3:57 pm

On Oct 4, 2008, at 7:03 AM, karl-otto von oertzen wrote:

> my question now is how max and dreams relate for you ? :)

Contemplating mortality, of course. :-)

> will we have a [dream~] object soon ? :)

It will be dynamically-loaded, for sure. Probably will crash
periodically, too.

brad

http://music.columbia.edu/~brad


October 5, 2008 | 2:14 am

oh yes, if I had my way I’d lucid dream all the time. Only have had them about 20 times, but every time it is *amazing*. The particular thing I gravitate towards is telekenesis, where I sort of "figure out" how to do it, and at some point I’m able to move things around Jedi-style. It is a truly incredible feeling… but really, it’s just the beginning: flying, x-ray vision, telepathy, fireballs shooting out of your hands, etc… anything’s possible in the dream, since it’s all in your head!

I’m also curious about extending these "powers" into the real world. Not that they’re really "possible" per se, at least as we understand them, but things like telepathy or mental projection to other places may actually have something to them, since we only understand a fraction of what our brain’s doing most of the time…and we really don’t understand the "subconscious" realms (which I think is the same brain but operating at different frequencies, hence my interest in EEG and products like the Emotiv).

Anyone ever try the Nova Dreamer? Been wanting to check it out. Sounds like a great way to start to control your dreams, since the main hurdle (at least for me) is that I never know it’s a dream until I wake up. Once I realize that it’s a dream, it’s a whole different and amazing story…

http://www.lucidity.com/novadreamer.html

Okay, now to hook something like that up to lights or sounds (using Max, what else? :) specifically chosen to heighten your dreaming experience. I’ll bet playing motivation tapes or anything else you want to learn would be really interesting. Trigger them based upon being in REM (the Nova Dreamer or somesuch could send the toggle), and keep the volume low enough that it doesn’t wake you up. Or you could go even further and base the sounds on your brainwave patterns! That would either be really amazing or could totally drive you nuts, I’m not sure. I’m willing to try it though :)

Nice thread! Sorry for the off-topic but I couldn’t resist.

–CJ


October 5, 2008 | 1:11 pm

If no-one has ever done a Max project with a version of Gysin’s Dream
Machine, then it’s long overdue
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamachine
I found some really interesting material about the Dream Machine on a blog
some time ago, but for some reason Google’s Blog search will only return
hits about Sarah Palin today, no matter what you enter in the search field -
do I smell a conspiracy..?
Cheers
Roger

On 05/10/2008 03:15, "Seejay James" wrote:

>
> Okay, now to hook something like that up to lights or sounds (using Max, what
> else? :) specifically chosen to heighten your dreaming experience. I’ll bet
> playing motivation tapes or anything else you want to learn would be really
> interesting. Trigger them based upon being in REM (the Nova Dreamer or
> somesuch could send the toggle), and keep the volume low enough that it
> doesn’t wake you up. Or you could go even further and base the sounds on your
> brainwave patterns! That would either be really amazing or could totally drive
> you nuts, I’m not sure. I’m willing to try it though :)
>
> Nice thread! Sorry for the off-topic but I couldn’t resist.
>
> –CJ
>


October 5, 2008 | 1:52 pm

It’s really great I love the transitions in the book.

It sometimes goes a bit screwy resulting in a fairly harsh sounding squarewave of sorts. Sometimes it sounds like it’s overlapping lots of versions and they distort. Either that or some kind of bit rate reduction that would result in squaring the waveform.

You can just pick another story and it’s normal again.

XP SP2 Intel Quad Core and mobo. Max 5.02 will update MAX later and see if that fixes it.

Great app though. Can’t belive it’s all generative.


October 6, 2008 | 7:09 am

Seejay James schrieb:
> but really, it’s just the beginning: flying, x-ray vision, telepathy,
> fireballs shooting out of your hands, etc… anything’s possible in
> the dream, since it’s all in your head!
>
> I’m also curious about extending these "powers" into the real world.

Those had been transferred into reality already:
flying – aeroplanes, x-ray vision – x-rays, telepathy – mobile phones,
shooting out of your hands – pistols….

> Or you could go even further and base the sounds on your brainwave
> patterns!

There have been several projects using brain waves to control music
starting in the late sixties. My old friend Richard Teitelbaum used to
do that with his group MEV (Musica Electronica Viva)…

Just take your dreams serious, and they will turn into reality. But
maybe not in the way you imagined it in the first place…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


October 6, 2008 | 7:11 am

Roger Carruthers schrieb:
> but for some reason Google’s Blog search will only return hits about
> Sarah Palin today, no matter what you enter in the search field – do
> I smell a conspiracy..?

It’s called a Palindrom (you read it forward and backward and still
don’t know what it means), or was it Palindream? But that would be a
nightmare, which in the end is a special sort of dream…

Stefan


Stefan Tiedje————x——-
–_____———–|————–
–(_|_ —-|—–|—–()——-
– _|_)—-|—–()————–
———-()——–www.ccmix.com


October 6, 2008 | 8:36 am

I actually made a Dream Machine many years ago! It was superseded by a
series of those light/sound machines with goggles.

There’s a technology (AudioStrobe) that some of the more recent
devices use (eg Proteus) that’s some kind of modulation either
embedded in or added to the audio, that controls the flashing lights.
Entrainment software by transparentcorp (eg MindWorkStation) includes
the ability to do this, so I guess that it wouldn’t be difficult to do
with max – the guys at transparent would be able to tell you if the
protocol is publicly available. (or you could google it)

trance-ily yours

David

On 5 Oct 2008, at 14:11, Roger Carruthers wrote:

> If no-one has ever done a Max project with a version of Gysin’s Dream
> Machine, then it’s long overdue
> see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamachine
>


October 8, 2008 | 7:10 pm

I got the same results on my ibook G4, same software config. Just an idea,
what is the name of the maxpref file that it creates? Maybe I have one from
another old max-app by the same name buried somewhere with old file search
paths in it?

I am itching to see your work from following this thread.

On 10/4/08 8:51 AM, "Brad Garton" wrote:

> Whoa, this one leaves me completely flabbergasted. I honestly
> have no idea what could be causing this…
>
> brad
> http://music.columbia.edu/~brad
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2008, at 3:12 PM, Christopher Overstreet wrote:
>
>> This version brings up AFP Connection Status window and will go no
>> further
>> and keeps trying if I hit Cancel or if it times out, so I must force
>> quit.
>> The window says, "Looking up "Abzinia.", which is either a name of
>> an old
>> hard-drive, or maybe what I called this machine a long time ago.
>> Seems like
>> a clue, or maybe a new problem.
>>
>>
>> On 10/2/08 6:21 AM, "Brad Garton" wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It’s not an architecture issue — I tested it on both PPC and Intel
>>> machines, including even an older G4 running 10.3.9. I wish it were
>>> that simple.
>>>
>>> Derrick and Christopher (and others running OS 10.4.x): try this
>>> version, it may behave better on your G4/G5 machines:
>>>
>>> http://music.columbia.edu/~brad/BookOfDreams/older/BookOfDreams.app.zip
>>
>>
>


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